When to know to upgrade to composite
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Topic: When to know to upgrade to composite
Posted By: mon22
Subject: When to know to upgrade to composite
Date Posted: 01/03/2011 at 9:55pm
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been playing with the same blade for a year a week from now, and was wondering if a carbon blade would benefit me. Is there a noticeable difference playing from a 7ply wood to a carbon blade? ------------- I am a total Newb. Come at me! |
Replies:
Posted By: nicefrog
Date Posted: 01/04/2011 at 12:22am
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All the different types of carbon play completely different so it's impossible to say. Some Hinoki carbons.. ok maybe all Hinoki carbon's are super faster with lots of rebound. Balsa cored carbons are also often silly fast but don't feel the same (you can also get some very slow balsa carbons). Limba carbons are different again (more normal feeling but still stiffer and faster). If you get a thick enough top ply on them or a soft carbon, then they can be pretty much like an all wood blade, just more expensive :)
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Posted By: mon22
Date Posted: 01/04/2011 at 6:40pm
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how about playing characteristics frog? I understand their composition plays a part too, but the whole notion of a "larger sweet spot" is what im looking for (sorry i didnt specify) ------------- I am a total Newb. Come at me! |
Posted By: nicefrog
Date Posted: 01/04/2011 at 7:38pm
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mm apart from the balsa's I don't think the control or sweet spot is especially better on carbon blades. I like the non hinoki carbons with big fat outer plys the most but they (and the hinoki's) are very heavy blades. The ones with the very thin outer plys make obscene sounds and really feel like like a very stiff fast block of well... carbon lol. I know I've just bought one like I describe as being obscene blocks of carbon and an extreme version of it :P but that's something I want to try especially because of the hardness and the sounds/vibrations etc with an esn rubber. Soft carbons like the TBS just feel like a good all wood blade + some lead thrown in to bring it up to brick weight. There's one hard carbon galaxy do called the... 2024? which is cheap with a fat outer ply if you want to try that kind of blade for a test run, it's not crazy fast but fast enough. If you really want extra control and a larger sweet spot a carbon balsa is what you should be looking for, they match up the best with untuned old school Chinese rubbers too because of the super spring the balsa blades have without the weight and you can also get them slower than the Hino carbons are
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Posted By: mon22
Date Posted: 01/10/2011 at 10:41pm
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been playing w. the same allwood blade for a year now and would like to know if i am ready to upgrade to a composite blade. will there be a difference? will it improve my game? It would be great if others can share their experience when they switched to a composite blade. thanks ------------- I am a total Newb. Come at me! |
Posted By: DeIgado
Date Posted: 01/10/2011 at 10:45pm
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YOU STOP, STOP IT NOW
------------- Viscaria 86g T05 T05-fx 2059 and rising |
Posted By: rawrtje
Date Posted: 01/10/2011 at 11:01pm
| Took 5 years to realize the power of all-wood. When the ball flies past the opponent, the difference between it flying fast, and it flying faster is inconsequential - it is flying past all the same. |
Posted By: nicefrog
Date Posted: 01/10/2011 at 11:07pm
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I switched at about 8 years, realised about 4 years later that I had made a mistake :) then used a soft composite (glass rather than carbon). Carbon blades are fine so long as they aren't too fast ------------- |
Posted By: rawrtje
Date Posted: 01/10/2011 at 11:11pm
| The composite blades from the Gambler line are very controllable |
Posted By: icontek
Date Posted: 01/10/2011 at 11:15pm
+1 when you can put 50 counters, pushes in a row from both FH and backhand sides? ...all kidding aside, it sounds like you want glass fibre or kevlar (increases sweet spot, does some vibration dampening)... but depending on where you are at developing touch, this sort of vibration dampening can actually impede your feel for incoming spin. ------------- http://bit.ly/vLMhuB" rel="nofollow - - RC1042 . OSP Virtuoso AC: PK50 + R42 |
DeIgado wrote:Posted By: mon22
Date Posted: 01/10/2011 at 11:19pm
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thanks guys
lmao its only a question for future references, hence "when to know to upgrade to composite" do we have practice btw tomorrow? ------------- I am a total Newb. Come at me! |
Posted By: mon22
Date Posted: 01/10/2011 at 11:22pm
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hey icontek and robjkc thanks for reminding me of my other post, but there are similarities and differences to it only this time i guess im using what i am learning from the other thread ------------- I am a total Newb. Come at me! |
Posted By: cotdt
Date Posted: 01/11/2011 at 12:04am
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I don't think a carbon blade would benefit you unless your main game is far from the table. Fast carbon blades have less feel and flatter trajectories, so they go into the net or out the table more. Some of the slower carbon blades like TBS are quite good, but then again they play a lot like all-wood blades which are cheaper. In general I find faster blades to be less spinny, they have less offensive power near the table. They are more for people who play far from the table. |
Posted By: ztec
Date Posted: 01/11/2011 at 12:22am
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Sometimes I kind of wonder what's the difference actually. If you keep
practicing often with an all-wood blade and a composite blade you can
progress either way. There's no moment in knowing that you should just
upgrade now and everything will be ok. If you switch from a slow
all-wood blade to a fast all-wood blade it's still an adjustment. Same
thing with composite. It's still just an adjustment. I can't say I play
better with a 5-ply wood, a 7-ply wood, or a composite blade, I can say
that if I switch between each in a short period of time, I'll play
differently with each, which of course is because each blade itself is
different. Just pick and stick with something you're comfortable with and
practice more, it'll pay more dividends than changing equipment. ------------- Your play will change your opinion of your equipment more than your equipment will change your opinion of your play. |
Posted By: mon22
Date Posted: 01/11/2011 at 12:41am
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i guess the EJ bug had bitten me to a point where i need others to either sway me towards a purchase or not lol maybe thats why others EJ from other's experiences and posted reviews of temptations lol  thanks guys ------------- I am a total Newb. Come at me! |
Posted By: cotdt
Date Posted: 01/11/2011 at 12:45am
| Get a Nittaku Violin instead! Or a Timo Boll ZLF, plays a lot like 5-ply wood but with a larger sweet spot. |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 01/11/2011 at 1:17am
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Besides being both expensive, these are two really different blades. ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: mon22
Date Posted: 01/11/2011 at 1:48am
i was actually looking at the zlf and took an interest in it ------------- I am a total Newb. Come at me! |
Posted By: 2wingloop
Date Posted: 01/11/2011 at 8:41am
 ------------- Stiga O.C WRB/Donic Coppa JO Gold (FH)/Yasaka Mark V (BH) Stiga O.C WRB/Donic Coppa X1(Turbo) Platin(FH)/Xiom Vega Europe (BH) |
Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 01/11/2011 at 9:21am
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try the 7 ply wood! no matter how fast the ball you can still feel it and with lots of control which is the most important factor. though carbon blades may increase your speed, your strokes are the one that really matters most.. for 7 ply blades try the following: 1. clipper wood 2. avx p700 3. xiom solo 4. xiom amadeus 5. nittaku septear 6. timo boll w7 7. and my favorite stiga ebenholz 7 (but this blade is kinda picky on its owners) ------------- Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
Posted By: dragon kid
Date Posted: 01/11/2011 at 9:57am
------------- 'Nobody is Perfect. I am Nobody' |
Posted By: dragon kid
Date Posted: 01/11/2011 at 10:19am
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Btw, back to the original question. It will be hard to know when you can switch to Composite blades. Some players even started out using composite blades and a few of them can turn out to be very good players.. I think even Fred started out using composite blade  IMO, whatever equipment you use, if you have the ability, you can get use to it given you use it for a good period of time. I mean if your basic are good (strokes, short game,etc.), I don't think it will be a problem. The problem is when you switch your game will probably drop first. And if you are not patient enough you might be tempted to go back to your original setup immediately. Also it's important that when you switch, you choose a composite blade that suitable to your style. For example if you loop a lot, you probably won't like Schlager Carbon, but if you like to mix with some flat hit/smash then it is an ideal blade. just my 2 cents.. ------------- 'Nobody is Perfect. I am Nobody' |
Posted By: ichini
Date Posted: 01/11/2011 at 10:37am
yup,i agree with you,i started out with a composite blade too,and i even started out with a tensor! ------------- Timo Boll ALC Hurricane 3 NEO National Blue Sponge Tenergy 64 My forever setup,I'm in a National Team but don't join any tournaments,too bad,no rating at all :( |
Posted By: debraj
Date Posted: 01/11/2011 at 3:58pm
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such a silly question!!! based on your question... the overwhelming number of pro players playing wood blades haven't reached that level. or what??? i am surprised so many people even answered!!  ------------- 729-F1||Rhyzm-P(FH)|| Rasant Grip orRhyzm-P max(BH) http://youtu.be/y9y9nE9g778" rel="nofollow - vid1 http://youtu.be/xqNy786yGOs" rel="nofollow - Vid 2 |
Posted By: walleyeguy7
Date Posted: 01/11/2011 at 4:06pm
| nah dont do it, it wont make you happy or make you play any better. rather, it will likely make you feel insecure, and you will likely play a little worse. |
Posted By: mon22
Date Posted: 01/11/2011 at 4:56pm
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hey debraj, chill out man. you mad? ------------- I am a total Newb. Come at me! |
Posted By: nashron
Date Posted: 01/11/2011 at 7:50pm
interesting but i couldnt understand.. can u elobrate more :) ------------- Now i use DHS Hking 655 but i miss my the moments i use dr neubaeur firewall plus. |
Posted By: debraj
Date Posted: 01/11/2011 at 7:54pm
------------- 729-F1||Rhyzm-P(FH)|| Rasant Grip orRhyzm-P max(BH) http://youtu.be/y9y9nE9g778" rel="nofollow - vid1 http://youtu.be/xqNy786yGOs" rel="nofollow - Vid 2 |
Posted By: mon22
Date Posted: 01/11/2011 at 8:05pm
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------------- I am a total Newb. Come at me! |
Posted By: Aquaman
Date Posted: 01/12/2011 at 1:06am
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I played wood blades for years, most recently the Tibhar Samsonov Alpha (a very good soft blade), but have always liked the solid feel of carbon blades. I did not use carbon blades because they were just too fast (I have a Butterfly Sardius in the closet--loved the feel but not the speed). But recently I found a slow enough carbon blade for me: the JUIC Stellan Bentgsson Alpha (ALL+ rating). I love it, especially for the huge sweet spot, but I recently cracked it hitting the table's edge. So now I'm using my backup blade (JUIC Hybrid--a little softer, but also very good) while waiting for my replacement Stellan Bengtsson. ------------- Blade: Stiga Allround Classic FH: JOOLA Rhyzm 2.0 BH: JOOLA Rhyzm 425 2.0 |
Posted By: sammai
Date Posted: 01/16/2011 at 1:19am
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Hello aquaman: Are you by any chance willing to sell your sardius or else perhaps trade for some other blade of equivalent value. Thanks, and I hope to hear from you. Sammai |
Posted By: Pioneer
Date Posted: 01/16/2011 at 2:33pm
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When you want to accelerate your game with a compromised control ... ------------- Blade: Timo Boll ZLF ST http://mytabletennis.net/forum/topic71344_post873640.html#873640" rel="nofollow - My Feedback |
Posted By: ianworz
Date Posted: 01/16/2011 at 8:26pm
+1 All-wood for the win. Just learn to swing faster. ------------- http://worzbeatsticks.blogspot.com - Worz Beat Stick WBS Takehaya FH: H3 No. 21 BH:Spectol |
Posted By: SteveWAD
Date Posted: 06/06/2011 at 1:36am
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Aquaman,
Are you still using the JUIC Stellan Bentgsson Alpha ?
Do you use the flared or straight?
I am seriously considering switching to it as I am looking for a good control carbon.
Whats it been like switching to it ?
Did you use it in competition ?
If you don't us it now, want to sell ?
I would like to try
Appreciate any feedback
Thanks
Steve Adams
Alameda, CA
------------- Steve Adams Foster City, CA. mailto:[email protected]" rel="nofollow - My Email |
Posted By: seguso
Date Posted: 06/06/2011 at 1:55am
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Unless you pick a very fast blade like T4, you will see no big difference switching from a stiff 7 ply blade to carbon.
------------- pg5x - mxd fh & bh - https://youtu.be/dBMqj0CN7XU" rel="nofollow - 2015 video |
Posted By: mercuur
Date Posted: 06/06/2011 at 3:14am
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If a layer of uni-directional carbon ("soft carbon", all carbon fibres in one direction, the weavethreads perpendicular to that don,t have significant strength) counts for one layer in a blade then a carbon-weavelayer should count for two layers. Two carbon weave layers for adding four layers. Think like that and a 5+2 blade (carbon or carbon /arylate) can be regarded as 5+4 blade. Then going from a five ply blade to a nine ply blade means that a whole range of blades is jumped over. 3+2 blades with two weavelayers (7 ply), 7 ply wood blades, 9 ply woodblades, soft carbon 3+2 blades (5 layers) soft carbon 5+2 blades (7 layers). From 5 ply wood to 5+2 carbon is not just going from wood to carbon then. |
Posted By: Liquid Sky
Date Posted: 06/06/2011 at 12:19pm
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My answer would be: if you can answer that question yourself. Record a video of yourself playing. Count the mistakes you make. If your service returns, the opening topspins and the blocking/counter topspinning is without a lot of mistakes, upgrade to a composite blade. ------------- XIOM - Vega Pro (2,0 mm) |
Posted By: mon22
Date Posted: 06/06/2011 at 12:44pm
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Damn.. i cant believe i posted a thread like this lol. What a newb! lol I definitely stuck with all-wood blades since i last remembered this thread. For the record, from personal experience, you dont know when you upgrade to a composite since it is all preference. And by answering my own question, my preference definitely stayed within the all-wood (or wood feel) category. I got away from the forums and focused on getting better and stayed with one set up. Now i actually look for very controlled blades rather than speed demons. Learning how to hit harder is a definite must. Also, all-wood blades definitely has a better feel compared to composite blades IMO. i was such an EJ newb lol------------- I am a total Newb. Come at me! |
Posted By: frogger
Date Posted: 06/06/2011 at 1:21pm
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You know, when you have been playing composite for a couple of years then play an all wood blade and it feels like a your game just went down a couple of notches. All wood is ok for some but when you experience that solid sweet spot and refined feel it's hard to go back. ------------- Wood Paddle Red side Black side. |
Posted By: mon22
Date Posted: 06/06/2011 at 1:30pm
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its mad numb though frogger... cant feel anything ------------- I am a total Newb. Come at me! |
Posted By: assiduous
Date Posted: 06/06/2011 at 2:16pm
Agree w Debraj. It presumes that a composite blade is an upgrade. That is arguable, to say the least : ) That aside, if you want to experiment with composite blades my advice is to try Galaxy or some other descent quality cheap vendor. Try it out, won't be expensive to test. Don't but a $200 blade right away because you may be surprised at what you discover. The two most expensive blades I have ever bought were carbons, and I came to hate them with such passion, that I gave them away for free and swore never to buy a carbon blade again. Since I play near the table I care more about spin and high throw so I can brush lift them pesky chops, and fast carbon blades are the worst choice for that. Same rubber has no spin and very low throw when I put it on the carbon. You don't want to get that experience after shelling some of the nicest 200 you have : ) ------------- puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out |
Posted By: frogger
Date Posted: 06/06/2011 at 3:59pm
You need to experience some of the new generation carbon composite blades. These are not what your grandfather played with at all. New tech materials with feeling.  ------------- Wood Paddle Red side Black side. |
Posted By: jt99sf
Date Posted: 06/06/2011 at 4:12pm
+1 , I've 'converted' a few players from wood to composite and they are happy with the change. Less effort with more control and power. -------------  Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
Posted By: seguso
Date Posted: 06/06/2011 at 4:31pm
for example...? ------------- pg5x - mxd fh & bh - https://youtu.be/dBMqj0CN7XU" rel="nofollow - 2015 video |
Posted By: mon22
Date Posted: 06/06/2011 at 4:37pm
yeah thanks seguso i tried the Timo Boll ZLF and that is suppose to feel like wood but I didn't like it at all ------------- I am a total Newb. Come at me! |
Posted By: BMonkey
Date Posted: 06/06/2011 at 5:16pm
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Posted By: mercuur
Date Posted: 06/06/2011 at 6:22pm
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The problem I have with carbon and balsa blades (also hard outer compared to soft inner) is that I loose feeling once I start playing with such blades. First time I use such blades I still have the feeling from playing with the ususal type of blade for a longer period. I,m borrowing the feeling from the period I used a woodblade and the carbon works great. I enjoy the stabillity, ease for some strokes that would go wild with a less stable blade aso. Great....but then I start loosing feeling for the game in general. Less feedback works out the same as if I would limit my hours of play significantly. After a while I end up having just as much feel as the blade has which is much less. My whole game and even technicque start to deteriorate slowly week after week. Getting back to a woodblade with bad form and feeling the woodblade also doesn,t work well anymore. Maybe with a lot higher amount of traininghours a week this is different, could be. |
Posted By: frogger
Date Posted: 06/06/2011 at 9:54pm
For example: BTY Carbo X5....great blocking and hitting blade close and mid distance to table.
Donic Carbo Tec....Carbon fleese, light blade with just right speed and dwell time and feeling with large sweet spot for any distance
Donic Power Carbon....great balance, a bit stiffer, great for all distances with power. Very good ball feel upon impact even though a thick blade.
Yasaka Ma Linn Soft Carbon....a very controllable blade that can be used by many level of players....nice ball feel. ------------- Wood Paddle Red side Black side. |