Your own blade sealing
Printed From: Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET
Category: Equipment
Forum Name: Equipment
Forum Description: Share your experience and discussions about table tennis equipments.
Moderator: haggisv
Assistant Moderators: position available
URL: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=41744
Printed Date: 05/02/2024 at 6:15pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Your own blade sealing
Posted By: assiduous
Subject: Your own blade sealing
Date Posted: 05/06/2011 at 2:39pm
|
Well, i just lost another blade (donic person powerplay) to that vicious Butterfly Free Chack glue, and quite frankly I am so fed up with it, if butterfly had an office here I would go there and break something. Even with a high quality blade removing the rubber is super hard. Which brings me to the thread topic - what do you use to seal your blades? Not that I will use the butterfly glue ever again, but if it safe, i would like to seal my blades anyway. Does a layer of polyorethane change the playing characteristics of the blade, other than a few grams of weight? Doesn't it make it harder? And while we are at it, if using polyorethane can you use any of the ones with stain? - would be nice to add mahagony finish to some cheap blades :) Whatever other advice you can share about sealing your own blade - please do. ------------- puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out |
Replies:
Posted By: Hookshot
Date Posted: 05/06/2011 at 3:59pm
|
Seal ALL blades. One coat of Poly-U will not change a blade. My fav is Minwax Poly Quick Dry, Satin. Dip the corner of a lint free rag in it, rub it into the wood. Then wipe it off, let dry. If it is very open grain wood, use two or three coats. Apply about 10 minutes apart, then dry for one hour. Done.
You "might" be able to feel a little difference on an ALL- or DEF blade. I can't tell you. I do not use slow blades. OFF- to OFF+, you can not feel the difference with one or two coats. I have done tests by comparing an unsealed blade to a sealed blade many times. Bouncing a ball on the bare blades, (OFF- or faster) two coats gave a "slightly higher" sound on "some" of the blades. With rubbers on the blade, (blind test) NO ONE could pick the sealed blade. I have done tests with up to 10 coats of Poly-U. Varathane works the same. Both brands make water or mineral based finish. When dry, both are water proof. Water based gives a crystal clear finish while mineral based adds a slight golden glo to the wood. If you use many coats for a "table top" finish, you must "lightly" sand with #320 to break the shine so the glue will stick better. With one or two coats, the glue holds fine and will stay on the sponge 95% of the time when the rubber is removed. I would not use "Made for Table Tennis" sealers as they do not even tell you what they are made of and they cost too much. Tests by Woodworkers Magazine have shown Poly-U to be the strongest, most scratch resistant, waterproof finish commonally available. A small can will do dozens of blades.
 If you use water based glue, remember to seal the edges of the blade. |
Posted By: king_pong
Date Posted: 05/06/2011 at 8:00pm
Good advise. Thank you for the articulate tips! |
Hookshot wrote:Posted By: assiduous
Date Posted: 05/06/2011 at 9:33pm
|
Yes! Very useful! Thank you, sir! ------------- puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out |
Posted By: davidz
Date Posted: 05/06/2011 at 11:07pm
|
If you do not apply too much, it is less likely to make the blade harder by sealing. Actually, I want to find something which can make the blade harder. I tried nail polish and wood hardener, and none really worked. The CR technique from Stiga can only improve blade's speed slightly. I guess it is not easy to make the blade significant harder by applying some chemical on blade surface .
------------- PG7 (Skyline 2, LKT XP) YEO (Skyline 2, Skyline 3) |
Posted By: vvu.tee
Date Posted: 05/07/2011 at 10:15am
|
davidz, you may try Titanium nano coating (some car repair shops have it), it does not add measurable weight when applied properly. apply two layers (even on 'softest' wood) and your blade will become a booster rocket. there are other alternative nanotechnologies as well have fun! ------------- (1) BTY T64 - BTY M.MAZE - BTY T05 (2) BTY T64 - BTY M.MAZE - DHS H3 Neo Provincial |
Posted By: Hookshot
Date Posted: 05/07/2011 at 11:00am
|
Is the nano coating clear? Sounds interesting. I might have to try it.
I am pretty sure there is an ITTF rule about being able to see the wood through the finish. It is strange they do not enforce it as there are many blades with an opague coating.
There are also products made to harden rotting wood in boats. Might try that also. |
Posted By: aeoliah
Date Posted: 05/07/2011 at 11:45pm
By booster rocket do you mean that the blade will have more speed ? ------------- Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
Posted By: davidz
Date Posted: 05/08/2011 at 12:24am
|
Thanks for the information! I will give it a try.
------------- PG7 (Skyline 2, LKT XP) YEO (Skyline 2, Skyline 3) |
Posted By: doraemon
Date Posted: 05/08/2011 at 2:39am
|
I used to use Minwax Polyurethane Spray (Satin also, not glossy). It works very well. You can spray to your used undershirt and wipe your blade with it. Or you can just spray the blade directly, but be careful, not to overdone it. Last few years, I have been using Donic Sealer. Price wise, you are better with Minwax PU Spray but with Donic Sealer, it is easier to use. Just one thin coat and within 15 - 30 minutes, it is dry completely. Or you might want to dry it using hair dryer. |
Posted By: Hookshot
Date Posted: 05/08/2011 at 2:47am
|
Minwax makes a regular and a quick dry. The quick dry is dry in 30 minutes also.
The regular can take 8 hours depending on temperature and humidity.
|
Posted By: hungga
Date Posted: 05/08/2011 at 12:38pm
|
Splintering is one thing but yea if I dont varnish my Petr Korbel (PK) back then I might fell victim to another BTY good for more bad thing products. I used Fit Chack to glued my T64s and it didn't dry off after 3 months. That could've destroyed my first ever BTY blade (even I'm starting to think it's a fake PK with both new and old BTY logo on the same blade). But, during cleaning process (getting Fit Chack off the blades surface) my tt seniors speculated that somehow the varnish could've reacted with chemicals within the glue, in a hot environment (car's trunk), got mixed up then failed to dry. Given the right amount of time the mixture will damage the blade, if not the heat. They're not chemical engineer or scientist whatever but they've been playing for more than 10 years and that was the first time they saw a bad racket (sealing and gluing combination/result). Luckily, the blade survived my crazy idea. Had to sacrificed my birthday gift perfume, it's high in alcohol, in order to remove that nasty gooey mixture, rolls of paper sand and it's still very much alive today. My point is, varnishing is good but if what my senior said is true then the glue and heat are two other things that you should watch out for. ------------- :: EJ level 1 :: |
Posted By: Hookshot
Date Posted: 05/08/2011 at 12:44pm
|
Hungga,
What did you use for a sealer?
|
Posted By: hungga
Date Posted: 05/08/2011 at 12:55pm
|
Hookshot, I used wood varnish. I actually don't know which type of varnish I should use so I just asked the hardware shop's keeper to pick one for me. It's a clear one with glossy finish. ------------- :: EJ level 1 :: |
Posted By: Hookshot
Date Posted: 05/08/2011 at 1:34pm
|
The word varnish covers all finishes. Some are usless with water, others with various chemicals.
Poly-U is the most scratch resistant and the most resistant to water. I have never seen anything attack a Poly-U finish. That is why it is used for Bar/counter tops and floors.
I did have a problem with one blade, the blade was already sealed but I sprayed a coat of Poly-U on anyway. There was something in the factory finish that reacted with the Poly and it would not harden. It was a Zeropong, carbon but I can not remember the model. It looked like the Instinct with out the yellow stripe in the handle. It is not in the web site anymore. |
Posted By: vvu.tee
Date Posted: 05/08/2011 at 2:40pm
|
some nanocoatings are clear and transparent, you can even apply them on the windshield to improve visibility / some result is stiff, some in flexible layers. for example, carbon or metal nano-fibers are superior to plain fibers in all departments save the cost  ------------- (1) BTY T64 - BTY M.MAZE - BTY T05 (2) BTY T64 - BTY M.MAZE - DHS H3 Neo Provincial |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 05/08/2011 at 3:19pm
|
To add to the discussion, here is what Charlie (of bladesbycharlie.com) uses: http://www.mapleblock.com/detail/butcher-block-finishes-39/ - http://www.mapleblock.com/detail/butcher-block-finishes-39/ see: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17067&PID=515075&title=1-ply-hinoki-blades#515075 - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17067&PID=515075&title=1-ply-hinoki-blades#515075 From Charlie's web site: Q: Are BBC blades sealed?
A: Yes, all BBC blades are
sealed in the final step of construction, but not with a shiny urethane
top coat that you might be familiar with. I searched long and hard for a
sealant that penetrates the wood yet still protects against splintering
when rubber is removed. By not forming a hard top coat on softer woods
like Mahogany and Cypress, the wood's natural resiliency is preserved
and that improves playability.
Thanks to Charlie and to 1ply for sharing this valuable information. It would be nice if he could elaborate about what makes Good Stuff different to other polyurethane gel varnishes. ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: Tinykin_2
Date Posted: 05/08/2011 at 7:14pm
|
In the glue days, there was no need for a sealant as the glue itself would sink into the wood over time and provide the bonding. Most sealants will change the blade characteristic in some way especially if heavily applied. So be careful. I use linseed oil which takes a few days to dry but with the bonus of giving the blade a nice soft bouncy character. I picked this up from cricketers and old hardbat players. ------------- Member of Single Ply Club. Shakehand, Kauri wood by American Hinoki, 1-ply 7mm. FH> Gambler Reflectoid. BH> Yasaka Mark V |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 05/08/2011 at 8:16pm
|
I've found some information that could be useful to select a proper sealant: http://www.finewoodworking.com/pages/w00060.asp - http://www.finewoodworking.com/pages/w00060.asp I wonder whether tung oil would be more appropriate than linseed oil, if it is true that it provides more resistance to moisture and, therefore, water-based glue. Another article said that finishes should rather be classified as evaporative vs reactive, rather than film finishes or penetrating finishes, because a surface film finish can also be achieved with penetrating finishes, it all depends on the number of layers that are applied. ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: Hookshot
Date Posted: 05/08/2011 at 8:47pm
|
If you are sealing for water resistance, linseed oil is rated poor.
Linseed oil helps bind the grain but water based glues will still have an effect.
http://www.finewoodworking.com/pages/w00060_sb2.asp - http://www.finewoodworking.com/pages/w00060_sb2.asp |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 12/08/2011 at 8:13am
|
I have some oil finish that is used for impregnating cutting blocks: Amanprana Qi-board oil, which is extra pure coconut oil mixed with a few drops of camphor oil: http://www.noble-house.tk/html/engels/qi-board_boosts_your_hygiene.htm - http://www.noble-house.tk/html/engels/qi-board_boosts_your_hygiene.htm I wonder if I could use it to seal a new blade. I don't want to use polyurethane varnish and finishes like Good Stuff or Waterlox seem not to be available here in EU. Any ideas? ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: Brainstorm69
Date Posted: 12/08/2011 at 8:30am
|
I use minwax with a lint-free rag. Usually a couple of really thin coats across the blade face, and then a bit heavier/more just along the edges of the blade since that is where I have had a little problem in the past with splintering if I didn't seal the blade.
------------- F3S | Tulpe T-7007 | F3S |
Posted By: cje
Date Posted: 12/08/2011 at 8:53am
I also put linseed oil on my bats: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=11239&start=0 - http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=11239&start=0 but I now also seal my blades with a small application of Poly-U varnish, which dries withing an hour or two. ------------- http://www.murrayfieldtt.com/ YEO/ Galaxy E-3/ FH: Skyline III Neo / BH: Palio HK 1997 |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 12/08/2011 at 8:55am
|
Can anybody recommend a non-polyurethane-based product that is commercially available in Europe? ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: Loop40mm
Date Posted: 12/08/2011 at 10:40am
|
I have used both polyrethane and linseed oil. Polyurethane is more protective than linseed oil. You only need to apply polyurethane one time. Initially, rubber needs to be re-glued frequently when polyurethane is applied. Linseed oil needs to be re-applied again but it is no big deal. Currently I use linseed oil. ------------- Stiga Ebenholz NCT V FH Tenergy 05 BH DHS Tin Arc 3 |
Posted By: The Shakehander
Date Posted: 12/08/2011 at 11:40am
You guys should mention not only your preferred sealer but your preferred glue.
I don't seal i just get a few blades i like when that runs out and it's discontinued well SOL and a new search begins 
|
Posted By: Cho!
Date Posted: 12/08/2011 at 11:42am
|
How good are chack sheets? Do they play differently than normal WB glue, and how removable are they? ------------- Jpen: Senkoh-1 w. Xiom Vega Pro SH: Expert All+ w. TG3 Neo & Illumina |
Posted By: tuco
Date Posted: 12/08/2011 at 1:57pm
|
The older Butterfly glue sheet, before they called it Chack Sheet, was very strong and much stronger than other brands of glue sheets I have used. A thin layer of wood came off with the Butterfly glue sheet once. Please use with caution.
I recently finished a bottle of Free Chack and had not issues with it. The idea is not to use too much Chack when applying to both rubber and blade. Just a thin layer would do - no more than 10 drops. ------------- The Dark Side is: "Quicker, easier, more seductive" - Yoda |
Posted By: tuco
Date Posted: 12/08/2011 at 2:04pm
Yes, it will make the blade harder and change the playing characteristics. If you use a small amount, you probably will not notice the difference. However, the effects are much more pronounced if the top ply is extremely thin.
I would imagine most high end blades are already sealed in the factory. You should check with the manufacturer or your retailer.
------------- The Dark Side is: "Quicker, easier, more seductive" - Yoda |
Posted By: mercuur
Date Posted: 12/08/2011 at 3:46pm
|
Currently I use some woodtreatment oil from a Bob de Bauer / garden center (Hornbach). Uv resistant which means it doesn,t colour to become yellow I suppose for what that matters. It,s colourless, natural look, not too shiny not building a layer on top of the wood. It was the cheapest they had (approx fifteen euro / litre) but works perfect (with voc-glue that is for having experience with). At least partially it contains hardening oil but not hardening the wood noticable. I treat the whole blade including griphalves and sides with a thick layer. After an hour if necessary I remove excessive remains. Where it has this it,s slightly white, handy for applying and removing but not noticable afterwards. It then has a thin, transparent greasy film. From that it takes twenty four hours to be absorbed. After that the film is completely gone. Not feeling tacky or slippery including the handle.. with playing it feels normal. Rubbers come off perfect (showing a consistent bound) and applying is perfect as well. Don,t know if and when it needs a new layer but for now, several changes on some blades didn,t show anything in that direction. ------------- |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 12/08/2011 at 6:37pm
|
@mercuur, what is the name of the product you use? ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: mizutani_jun
Date Posted: 12/08/2011 at 6:58pm
|
I sealed all my blades with Joola varnish. My old TBS wood came off when i use BTY chack before. So since then i seal all my blades. Just put one thin layer and it will never splinter. It also not change the blade performance. |
Posted By: icontek
Date Posted: 12/08/2011 at 10:36pm
I second that. Everything but my Virtuoso has a thin layer of Joola's water based sealer on it. None of my blades splinter with rubber cement or WBG. Even the Stigas. ------------- http://bit.ly/vLMhuB" rel="nofollow - - RC1042 . OSP Virtuoso AC: PK50 + R42 |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 12/09/2011 at 3:05am
|
I've also been quite happy with TSP Racket Coat, but now I want to try something oil-based, rather than poly-u. ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: Hookshot
Date Posted: 12/09/2011 at 3:42am
|
What is TSP racket Coat made from? Is it Poly-U or maybe it does not say?
|
Posted By: mercuur
Date Posted: 12/09/2011 at 6:45am
|
@ArgO, It only has "kleurloze houtolie" as a name. ------------- |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 12/09/2011 at 8:21am
|
@hookshot, it does say it, but in Japanese. In any case it's some sort of synthetic resin, judging from the type of finish.
@mercuur, thanks. fair enough: the name says it all. ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: speedspin
Date Posted: 12/09/2011 at 10:59am
|
What is the best sealer for blades to prevent wood from splintering when rubber is removed from blades? Which sealer does not alter or minimally alters the playing characteristics of the blade? I have tried Danish oil - seems to be ok. Others use varnish or polyurethane. What works best for you? ------------- Speedspin |
Posted By: icontek
Date Posted: 12/09/2011 at 11:25am
|
moved post to currently active blade sealing thread. ------------- http://bit.ly/vLMhuB" rel="nofollow - - RC1042 . OSP Virtuoso AC: PK50 + R42 |