legal boosters?
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Topic: legal boosters?
Posted By: Sofaires
Subject: legal boosters?
Date Posted: 02/11/2012 at 5:51pm
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i never though that there would be legal boosters that would pass ittf regulations here is a link of one of them, at leasat thats what the descriptions says...
http://www.megaspin.net/store/default.asp?pid=falco-tempo-long-booster - http://www.megaspin.net/store/default.asp?pid=falco-tempo-long-booster ------------- http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/52/myttsig.jpg/"> 
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Replies:
Posted By: dingyibvs
Date Posted: 02/11/2012 at 6:02pm
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All boosters of any worth alters the rubber's characteristics, anything that alters the rubber's characteristics is deemed illegal by the ITTF, therefore all boosters of any worth are illegal, at least if you apply it as opposed to the manufacturer. ------------- Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
Posted By: Sofaires
Date Posted: 02/11/2012 at 6:04pm
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yea, i read it a few times and they put the description like it was legal shaddy words ------------- http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/52/myttsig.jpg/">
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Posted By: the_theologian
Date Posted: 02/11/2012 at 6:11pm
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also on that page you linked to: Megaspin.net consulted ITTF about whether using this product complies with ITTF regulations. We were told you cannot boost a sponge without an influence on the top sheet and we were referred to the law below: 2.04.07 The racket covering shall be used without any physical, chemical or other treatment. ------------- Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max |
Posted By: ZingyDNA
Date Posted: 02/11/2012 at 7:01pm
What if I boost the sponge first , then attach a top sheet to it? How can the top sheet be influenced when I boost a sponge separately? |
the_theologian wrote:Posted By: extraSpin
Date Posted: 02/11/2012 at 7:04pm
Good point. ------------- Amultart Tenergy 05 black FH Tenergy 05 red BH http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=47482 - My feedback |
Posted By: Carbon TT
Date Posted: 02/11/2012 at 8:22pm
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ITTF is wrong, it would be completely legal by definition to tune a rubber and let it relax til to dome wears off and then glue it to the blade because the topsheet would not have been stretched. ------------- Primorac Carbon MX-P | EL-P |
Posted By: simon_xuan
Date Posted: 02/12/2012 at 12:38am
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I bought the two-week version and it created miracles in my traditional and cake sponge rubbers. T05 FX  Barracuda  ------------- RPB Rocks! BTY Innerforce ZLC Cpen | DHS H3N Blue Sponge | Victas V>15 Extra Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36695 |
Posted By: simon_xuan
Date Posted: 02/12/2012 at 12:42am
Genius + (not as obvious in the pic, a minor dome) Sriver EL  ------------- RPB Rocks! BTY Innerforce ZLC Cpen | DHS H3N Blue Sponge | Victas V>15 Extra Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36695 |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 02/12/2012 at 10:50am
I was just about to say the same thing. |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 02/12/2012 at 10:52am
My guess is that you would have relatively little of the effect that you are looking for by boosting if you do it that way. Boosting works by differentially affecting the area of the sponge and an attached topsheet (and hence the dome). If you boost the sponge and then attach the topsheet, all you will get is a softer sponge. That would affect the way it plays, of course, but it would not produce all of what you are looking for. |
Posted By: mercuur
Date Posted: 02/12/2012 at 3:18pm
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Posted By: simon_xuan
Date Posted: 02/12/2012 at 3:30pm
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I suppose this is no-issue if you don't use the tuned ones for censored matches.
------------- RPB Rocks! BTY Innerforce ZLC Cpen | DHS H3N Blue Sponge | Victas V>15 Extra Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36695 |
Posted By: patrick1v
Date Posted: 02/12/2012 at 5:50pm
| like i said before it is only e-legal when you get caught. |
Posted By: Sofaires
Date Posted: 02/12/2012 at 9:26pm
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i would feel bad/weird if i win with a illegal paddle in a censored match even if i dont get caught, like if i didnt achieve anything at all, just me ------------- http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/52/myttsig.jpg/">
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Posted By: patrick1v
Date Posted: 02/12/2012 at 11:47pm
| well i would think most professionals don't feel that way as it is not a level playing field. |
Posted By: ZingyDNA
Date Posted: 02/16/2012 at 10:16pm
So you're saying most, if not all, of the tuning effect comes from stretching the top sheet? That seems strange, because when people tune, don't they usually wait until the dome is flat, then attach the rubber? Also, manufacturers aren't supposed to stretch or put any tension on the top sheet when they make their rubber, so for rubbers like Tenergy and Tensors, where does the tuning/glue effect come from? I always thought it's from their sponges... |
Posted By: igorponger
Date Posted: 10/26/2017 at 8:10am
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Some more updates on the subject came up by now. http://googleweblight.com/?lite_url=http://www.spox.com/de/sport/mehrsport/tischtennis/1705/News/thomas-weikert-kritik-timo-boll-konter.html" rel="nofollow - http://googleweblight.com/?lite_url=http://www.spox.com/de/sport/mehrsport/tischtennis/1705/News/thomas-weikert-kritik-timo-boll-konter.html ITTF President Tomas Weikert pointed to ongoing efforts to prevent the use of forbidden adhesives for the flooring:
As an opportunity for a first concrete step, the former president of the DTTB called for the mandatory introduction of controls in professional competitions. |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/26/2017 at 8:30am
| Looking back on this five year old thread (inexplicably brought back to life) I think I was clearly wrong about boosters not affecting the topsheet. |
Posted By: igorponger
Date Posted: 10/26/2017 at 9:14am
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Foul play by Mister "D". Why Dimo can play so power strokes now? Here is the racket by Dimo Ovtcharov as used at the Euro Champs 2017, September 17. Huge rubber overlaps of 5mm, far beyond the blade's edge.  This is the know-how Dima would use to get his rubber expanded so much. https://youtu.be/5F3yzZ7yJ3Q?t=611" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/5F3yzZ7yJ3Q?t=611 |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/26/2017 at 9:24am
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That know-how is from a Chinese website. In Chinese. So this is how we "know" Dima boosts? Igor, your trolling is becoming more lazy. Your comrades want you to do better, perhaps bring back the carnal sex-crazed vampiress. Also, boosters don't cause rubber overhang after it is attached. |
Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 10/26/2017 at 9:35am
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Like Dima would not be able to produce powerful shots without boosting his rubbers. The irony being that if "ALL" pros are boosting, then by definition it IS a level playing field.   FdT
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Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/26/2017 at 9:44am
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Yes, when Dima first emerged on the scene, who among us said, that young man does not play with enough power? What a girlyman backhand? |
Posted By: bbkon
Date Posted: 10/26/2017 at 11:41am
pros are boosting beyond factory booster. a tenergy boosted from factory is not gonna curl in the edges.at least mizutani and dima boost by themselves |
Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 10/26/2017 at 11:52am
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Here is what I think is the meat of Timo's objection / problem with boosters: The T05 boosting 'cheaters' aren't much of an issue. It is the H3 Neo ones. He thinks that at that level (pros hit much harder than we do), Chinese rubber gives big advantage to its users as they can hit much harder without rubber bottoming out. But the users really need to boost to 'open the rubber up'. While the Europeans could, theoretically, get the provincial version of the orange-sponged rubber and boost themselves, there are two problems:
------------- Trade feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787 |
Posted By: ZingyDNA
Date Posted: 10/26/2017 at 12:38pm
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If Chinese rubbers have such an advantage, Japanese and European companies surely can reverse-engineer and make their own version? I mean rubber technology is not rocket science, right? Besides, the Chinese started dominating in the speed glue era. Everyone could of taken a Hurricane and glued themselves back then. How do you explain that?
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Posted By: ohwell
Date Posted: 10/26/2017 at 2:16pm
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This is a joke. If the concern is that Timo can’t buy Ma Long’s rubber, why is it the booster they go after and not the custom DHS rubbers? If they want a level playing field, just force everyone to use commercially available rubber+sponge combinations. (That would effectively force DHS to make the nat team rubbers commercially available.) |
Posted By: bbkon
Date Posted: 10/26/2017 at 2:27pm
and MA long can say he cant get the T05 timo uses |
Posted By: rocketman222
Date Posted: 10/26/2017 at 2:35pm
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Yeah, I think the case against boosters is stupid, especially when 95% of the pros are doing it. ------------- http://www.bladesbycharlie.com/models/hinokighost" rel="nofollow - BBC Hinoki Ghost http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=74126&title=feedback-rocketman222" rel="nofollow - My Feedback |
Posted By: Roni
Date Posted: 10/26/2017 at 5:15pm
| 100% of the pros are doing it. |
Posted By: berndt_mann
Date Posted: 10/26/2017 at 6:31pm
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Wa. That boosting seminar that igorponger provided us with, in Chinese and in what I hope is a reasonably reasonable English translation, really involves a lotta stuff you gotta do if you want to boost like a top pro. If I understand the boosting procedure correctly, first you gotta spread a thin layer of glue on your sponge. And I guess you just let your sponge lay there. Next, possibly the next day, you're gonna have to spread a thin layer of booster onto your rubber, pray that it dosen't dome riduculously, and wait a day for the rubber to straighten out. Then, provided you've done everything right so far, you spread another layer of booster onto you rubber and hope to Hell it dosen't overdome. Oh yeah, you gotta let this dry and undome overnight too. If you really are going for a Major League boosting effect, you're gonna have to spread one or two thin layers (be careful!) of booster onto your sponge and wait for the desired results in one or two more extra days. Ai-ya! According to the Bible, God took six days to create the heavens and the earth and though the Bible is mum on the subject, no boosting oils were presumably used in His creation. ------------- bmann1942 Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/26/2017 at 7:18pm
I think you could give nearly any European player, certainly Timo Boll, the best H3 in China boosted by their PhD level boosting genius and they wouldn't be able to play with it and wouldn't like it. And T05 doesn't bottom out. |
Posted By: berndt_mann
Date Posted: 10/26/2017 at 7:36pm
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And just who, Baal, is China's Ph.D. level boosting genius? The guy I just watched in another YouTube video mixing booster (the English translation not all that great) onto sponge and rubber until it forms a horizontal/vertical boosted mass that has to be meticulously dried with a hair dryer until it finally becomes an even kinda unnoticable but still there remains a booster substance that still has to undergo several more treatments before it is ready for the precisely demanding membership of the CNT? Wow. Truth to tell, I'm not sure whether this is jocular or terrifying. A level playing field to be sure, as FdT pointed out, if all the pros, and not just CNT members cheat, but when will a poor defender/looper (Filius ain't yet quite one) or better yet all-round player get a chance to sing top tenor? Not while this happy horsecrap is permitted, and probably never if boosting oils are legalized.
------------- bmann1942 Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
Posted By: ohwell
Date Posted: 10/26/2017 at 7:49pm
By that logic it was truly a miracle that defenders and Allround players managed to breathe the same air as speed gluing attackers. Or do you mean to say that low VOC boosting is less effective than speed glue? If you want a culprit for driving out these play styles, it may be wise to look at ITTF a tad harder. |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/26/2017 at 9:27pm
A hypothetical person. Maybe he exists. A rhetorical construct by me. But as someone else noted, we used to play with 38 mm balls and speed glue. Life should have been a lot tougher on defenders then. And it was apparently as tough or tougher, since about the only defender in the modern era (let's say from 1970 to now) who was a real threat to win a WTTC was JSH (finalist in 2003 with 40 mm balls and speed glue was legal). People will remind me if I left someone out. Bear in mind Berndt that I have played with boosted rubber and speed glued rubber. There is no comparison between the effects. None. Speed glue on something like Bryce gave a much bigger increase in speed, spin and feel than any boosted rubber I have hit with, including rubbers boosted by people who know what they are doing. No comparison. It's not the boosting. The current dominant style has been evolving for awhile now and even without glue or boost, the sport would not look that different than it does now. Boosting provides a marginal gain. Pros of course look for everything they can get if it can help win a match 13-11 in the seventh game. |
Posted By: berndt_mann
Date Posted: 10/26/2017 at 10:29pm
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(Baal) A hypothetical person. Maybe he exists. A rhetorical construct by me. Of course he exists. He exists just as surely to those of good will as Santa Claus, The Tooth Fairy, and the mischievous little sprite called Tinkerbell exist. He exists to transform the sport of table tennis into something wondrous, miraculous, bodelicious, and coon dog entertaining to a lovestruck coterie of fanboys and fangirls all around this magical pong crazy planet of ours. But as someone else noted, we used to play with 38 mm balls and speed glue. Yes we did. And those were great times which we thought would never end. But end they did.  And it was apparently as tough or tougher, since about the only defender in the modern era (let's say from 1970 till now) was JSH (finalist in 2003 with 40 mm balls and speed glue was legal. People will remind me if I left someone out. Well, we can go back to 1969, when Eberhard Scholer lost in a nail biter to Shigeo Ito. I don't know. Maybe 1969 just isn't modern enough. There was also the noble Ding Song, who had a forehand loop just about equal to Joo's and at one time was ranked I believe world no. 8. Bear in mind Berndt that I have played with boosted rubber and speed glued rubber. There is no comparison between the effects. None. Speed glue on something like Bryce gave a much bigger increase in speed, spin and feel than any boosted rubber I have ever hit with, including rubbers boosted by people who know what they are doing. No comparison. I gotta admit you got me there. I in my early and mid-fifties was a crazy manic wild double wing speed gluing looper with Spinny Top on rubbers from Mark V GPS and Mark V ad to Donic Vario Soft and Schildkrot V-Max. From 1992 to 1998 I played at the World Vets' using those fabled combinations. Almost every one of the 11 points I averaged per game were barrier busting gloop kills against cagey clever push it suddenly backhand drive it if it comes back go back to pushing Euros. One Italian dude watching my first match in Dublin against a German guy who twiddled using long pips and hard rubber and who beat my butt badly said to me bafore he went to his match, Ciao, loop killer. Long pips. Too bad. We, however, are both table tennis dockworkers when it comes to the top pros of the sport. Now that there aren't any more 38 mm. balls and no more speed glue why do you suppose the the world's best players, and even some of the world's pretty good players, illegally use boosting oils? It's not the boosting. The current dominant style has been evolving for awhile now and even without glue or boost, the sport would not look that different than it does now. Boosting provides a marginal gain. Pros of course look for everything they can get if it can help win a match 13-11 in the seventh game. How can one say that because of "evolution" as you call it that without speed gluing or boosting the sport would be pretty much the same as it presently is (virtually exclusively offensive)? What, other than your own opinion, to which you are entitled, criterion or criteria can you cite to justify that particular opinion? ------------- bmann1942 Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/26/2017 at 10:59pm
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Because boosting does not produce a huge effect. Ok. Let's include Eby Schoeler. Two finalists in 48 years. No world champions since.... the Berndtian era. Hungarians started gluing in the mid 70s. It was several years before anyone else wised up to that. By the time we get to Gatien, TT is pretty modern looking. Compare his FH to young Harimoto. A lot of what you see now can be done without any booster. The game would look the same. After all, Timo Boll who protests that he doesn't boost plays pretty damn well!!! |
Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 10/26/2017 at 11:40pm
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"Ai-ya! According to the Bible, God took six days to create the heavens and the earth and though the Bible is mum on the subject, no boosting oils were presumably used in His creation." Adam was said to have lived to the ripe age of 930. Pretty sure spending 3 days to wait for the oils to be absorbed by the sponge did not bother him at all. You missed the non canonical book of Eli, where the creation of ping pong was described to have happened just after Lilith was created, before Eve. It was Lilith who invented speed gluing and she was kicked out of paradise first cause she won the first match. Adam then figured out the boosting procedure. He had no one else to play with so God created Eve. God, btw, has a rating of 5000. And has an unreturnable serve!! Pretty obvious when you watch old footage of games in the 40's 50's, 60's and 70's. You can clearly see the ever increasing physicality of the game. Heck the first players were wearing suits for crying out loud!! And the ladies used to wear those fancy dresses and corsets!! FdT
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Posted By: berndt_mann
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 12:28am
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God's last known rating was indeed somewhere in the vicinity of 5000, but harken unto and take note of this: God played with a 2" X 1" Hock 1 ply No. 1 blade with the very finest Leyland rubber that Heaven could provide. His only begotten son was the only player who could come close to giving the Wonderful Conselor a decent run for his money. Even Noah, his first practice partner Eve, the infamous Lilith, and the hoary Noah, who had a good 900 years to learn how to boost, could not do Joseph, Jack or Jeremiah against the Lord. Kind of a shame, though, that the Lord's best years were back in the Biblical times when none of us could have had a chance to see the sport of table tennis played flawlessly without hesitation, misgiving, or error. The pong that we have come to know did originate as a parlor pastime played by gentlemen in vests and waistcoats and ladies in ankle length dresses but enjoyed roaring success in England from 1902-1904 when hundreds would show up for local tournaments. Then the sport went underground for about 20 years, not to reemerge until the ITTF came about in 1926. But back then there was no speed gluing and no boosting as the technology to produce speed glues and boosting oils had yet to come about. And this is what I'm talking about when I say that table tennis might be a different sport in its approach if speed glues and boosting oils had never been used. Table tennis might have been more balanced and more sensible. At least I would have hoped so, anyway. ------------- bmann1942 Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 6:11am
 https://twitter.com/TheLicentiate/status/775130446996746240" rel="nofollow - https://twitter.com/TheLicentiate/status/775130446996746240 ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
Posted By: AndySmith
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 6:22am
An unusual position to take. ------------- This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated. |
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 6:49am
Well, Baal's not alone.
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=74402&PID=922976&title=timo-boll-interview#922976" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=74402&PID=922976&title=timo-boll-interview#922976 ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 7:38am
They can't. It IS rocket science, but people thought I wrote it with a straight face. http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=74402&PID=918187&title=timo-boll-interview#918187" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=74402&PID=918187&title=timo-boll-interview#918187 http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=74402&PID=918861&title=timo-boll-interview#918861" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=74402&PID=918861&title=timo-boll-interview#918861 TSP tried it with the Triple series in the mid-90's. Unlike the 730 series, the Triple series was made in Japan. I tried the Spin version when it was first released. The tack was ok but in no way did it last as long as the 729, Globe 999 etc. This alone is a deal breaker, as it cost like several times more. The thing with the speed glue era is that glued Sriver and Bryce could compete with glued Hurricane. Gluing leveled the field. Not the case now. ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 9:50am
Maybe, but compared to speed glue on rubbers designed for speed glue it is a pretty trivial effect, something that will be confirmed by nearly any of the speed glue freaks who played at a high level in the 90s and early 2000s (of whom there a bunch where I play). It clearly has some effect, but no so much that the game would look discernibly different if no top players boosted. |
Posted By: LUCKYLOOP
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 9:57am
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A good comparison - speed glue Mark V vs boosted Mark V - not even close. ------------- Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 10:02am
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My Bryce used to have so much speed glue that a bird flying overhead would have gotten dizzy. I have hit with blades of professional players who have boosted their rubbers (Tenergy and Hurricane). As Luckyloop says, one is not like the other. |
Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 10:14am
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Not to take away from this discussion but I want to expand a bit on a small point.
Re: bottoming out, here is a translated excerpt of the Timo Boll interview that amateur posted on mytt (link http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=74402&title=timo-boll-interview" rel="nofollow - here ): Q: And how do you know that? A: I have already played with the material of players who have treated their pads afterwards. That was a certain difference. And then, in China, I've caught a colleague's thug in training. I want to say it like this: If the Chinese pull a topspin with my bat and their usual technique, he lands in his own half.
Q: Then the secret is revealed, how the unbeatable Chinese can be defeated. Steal your racquets, or design the controls so that they work. A: I do not want to say that the Chinese strength is based solely on the floor coverings. They have the best conditions, most coaches, most of the money. But it is certain they could not play some ball as they play it, and some punches do not have the quality they have at the moment. If the Chinese had developed a great covering, which is superior to all, then that would be all right. Then I could buy it in the store, or I could change the equipment supplier. But Chinese thugs, which are nowhere to buy and the pads are still treated. They do not have any sense of wrong-mindedness. The player Wang Hao once demonstrated in a live performance of the Chinese television how they prepare the bat. Any subsequent treatment is expressly forbidden, in fact it was proof of fraud. On the other hand, I am competitive with a racquet, which is not only compliant with the rules of measurement, but is 100% equivalent to the rules. Even more: I play with flooring that you can buy in the store. There is no difference. I have an absolutely pure conscience. The Chinese don't hit the ball so slowly that it would land in 'their own half' of the table if there was no bottoming out of T05. I agree that they can make a conscious effort to change their stroke to minimize that, but this is what would actually happen with their current stroke and T05 - all the >2600 coaches in my club have said that as well. Even at our local earthly levels: this week, I was watching a USA Junior team player practice with a 2600 coach (ex-CNT) for Joola NA Teams. The drill was as follows: the coach would fed a backspin ball to an assistant coach who would then loop it. This US team player would then counterloop 3rd ball. This kid (who has trained with Chinese coaches all his life) was seriously bottoming out on FH as he was hitting too hard for T05 player on that stroke. After their 20 minute drill, I asked him if any coach recommended he change to harder rubber on his FH or change his stroke for that shot. He said yes, and he tried, but his blade becomes too stiff with H3N so he persists with T05 (he has a BTY sponsorship). ------------- Trade feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787 |
Posted By: tom
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 10:30am
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" I want to say it like this: If the Chinese pull a topspin with my bat and their usual technique, he lands in his own half." and vice versa I am sure |
Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 10:32am
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Baal / Zeio: I've never tried speed glue before: is the effect much stronger than that of the current boosters (dianchi / FLT / Kailin, etc)? ------------- Trade feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787 |
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 10:47am
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Night and day. People loved speed glue because not only did it improve speed and spin, but touch as well. This unique quality was what gave players EVEN MORE confidence in ripping winners that would otherwise have gone long. ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
Posted By: AndySmith
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 11:00am
Ah, I see. Certainly the current accepted set of boosters don't change the core nature of the game like glues did. I don't think the effect is trivial though. Sure, if you boost the usual eurojap crowd then you won't see anything transformative. But start to boost H3N and it really does have more of a dramatic effect. IMO, if no boosters existed and speed glues were still outlawed, you wouldn't see H3N being used at the highest level of the men's game where catapult from distance is needed. You'd see something else, and you'd probably still see the CNT dominating regardless, but boosters are an enabler for H3N with that type of game. And that's why my position is that they give an unfair advantage as things stand now to tacky rubber users at the highest level of the men's game. ------------- This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated. |
Posted By: ohwell
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 11:05am
How is that the only explanation? Here's an other possibility: the stroke they use would make the ball slip on T05. (As a matter of fact ball slippage with certain strokes is one of the known motivations for using tacky topsheets.) It's far from obvious that bottoming out is a problem that cannot be solved using Tenergy or ESN technology.
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Posted By: ohwell
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 11:16am
What makes the situation an uneven playing field exactly? Everyone can use booster provided they don't mind breaking the rules. AFAIK the only serious case for an uneven playing field focuses on custom rubbers vs commercially available. Just force everyone to play with commercial rubbers - and so, force DHS to make the CNT rubbers widely available. Booster is neither here nor there.
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Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 11:28am
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"I want to say it like this: If the Chinese pull a topspin with my bat and their usual technique, he lands in his own half." I seriously doubt this. I have more than one Viscaria. One happens to have Tenergy 05 on both sides, my main one has an H3 Blue Sponge UNBOOSTED and a third racket with H3 boosted. I can loop with either no problem. I do have to change the techniquet, change angles and so forth. If I can hit a loop with either, then I have no f**king doubt a CNT member can rip with Timo's paddle after a few minutes. It is not hard to adapt. SO I call BS. FdT
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Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 11:39am
This is true IMO, more so because pros can use the rubbers we use in the sponge hardness of their choice or closer to it. Quadri's Rhyzm Ps are signficantly harder than the commercial versions and this is true for many rubbers and many pros including Boll. Hard sponge is not quite the same issue as tacky and bottoming out is more about hard sponge than tackiness. ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 11:41am
  I know....old racket, but it shows they can use other rubbers without a problem. FdT
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Posted By: AndySmith
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 11:43am
Everyone can use which booster exactly? Can everyone get the same stuff? The same argument for non-commercial rubber can be made for non-commercial booster as well. Just having booster on the professional scene introduces a chemical-lab arms race. But that's just idle speculation. There are two factors in my mind about the level playing field. First - if you want to obey the rules, or not. A player who feels an ethical obligation to not cheat is disadvantaged. Second - boosters are more of a necessity for a single type of rubber - H3N and the like, allowing their use at the top end of men's play. A player who doesn't want to boost (or doesn't have access to the quality of chemical needed) is then possibly unable to even select that type of rubber, even if he/she thinks it may suit their game, because it lacks catapult. Imagine you're a young professional and want to go down the H3N route - where do you start? What do you do? Do you commit to it, find your own way of boosting? You run the risk of discovery at any point, or the booster you select becoming unavailable (and yes, how do you get the same base rubber the CNT use). It's more of a level playing field in terms of equipment selection, but boosting factors into that. I agree with the idea that the ITTF should provide equipment to pros at official tournaments, randomly selected from official stores. I floated that idea around the forums a while ago (this discussion comes up a lot of course). There are pitfalls for the amateur consumer though - DHS (for example) may be tempted to sell a factory boosted H3N on the open market to enable sponsored players to use it, but the boost might be so short-lived that as a bog standard customer you encounter a seriously short shelf life. I really dislike the muddy, grey area the ITTF has put us in at the moment. Either make a serious effort to ban it (and only allow commercially-available rubber fitted in controlled conditions), or allow safe, tested booster to market and give all players access to it without fear of reprisals. If you sanction and approve them, you also have a chance of testing them and making sure they pose no health risks. Don't ban it with unenforceable illogical rules and then turn a blind eye. ------------- This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated. |
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 11:44am
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Grip-S is a Chinese rubber, produced by Haifu for Tibhar. It's essentially the Haifu Whale 3. ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 11:46am
| Imagine a match between Timo and Ma Long played with rubbers purchased at Megaspin or TT11 and glued by one of us without booster. They would feel the difference but the match would look pretty much the same. |
Posted By: AndySmith
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 12:07pm
I think you're right. But it would feel better, fairer, to me as an observer. Perhaps Timo would also feel a bit personally happier to know that he could, if he wanted to, use exactly the same setup as his opponent. Maybe any possible griping about "bat doping" from the Olympic committee would be stopped. And since the match would look almost the same and the result presumably would go the same way (although, who knows until it happened), then why not give it a bash ITTF, eh? I think in the medium-term the manufacturers would just introduce homogenised rubbers with short shelf lives, but at least the equipment situation would be transparent and understood by all. ------------- This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated. |
Posted By: ohwell
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 12:12pm
Lots of great points. I agree that framing the issue in terms of the availability of boosters is misleading, and that custom boosters are a problem too. I must admit though: I doubt differences from custom vs commercial boosters boosters make nearly as big of a difference as whether or not boosters are used at all. But it’s entirely possible they do. The solution might be to make custom boosters illegal. I’m not sure. But if that’s the main issue it comes down to we would both agree that the crusade on boosters is misguided: it should instead be a crusade against proprietary/custom rubbers and chemicals. About h3 needing booster, in a way that other rubbers don’t. I fully agree. But at that stage I must admit something else: my background hypothesis is that at the end of the day this mess is socio economic. I suspect that what’s going is more like a tension between China’s need to train developing players with very affordable rubbers and corporate interest in maintaining the costs of rubbers made with tensor type tech as high as possible and maximize profit. (DHS also has commercial interests here, but if I’m right their business model as far as rubbers go relies mostly on selling affordable rubbers in very very high quantities,) If that’s correct, ITTF’s seemingly absurd position is actually very sensible: a ban on boosters that they don’t enforce incentivizes tensor type rubber purchase while letting the low tech, cheap rubber + booster be. (If that’s right the whole thing has little to do with tacky top sheets. That would raise the question of why top level tacky tensor type rubbers aren’t widespread. My best guess would be that there just isn’t a big enough market for it to motivate Bty/ESN to do better than the handful of options they currently produce.) Ofc these are just hypotheses and guesses which I’m not in a position to adequately verify. |
Posted By: AndySmith
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 12:20pm
That's really interesting, I've never thought about it from that perspective before. That makes it more of a clash between "pure" sporting ethics and the messy real-world. ------------- This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated. |
Posted By: ohwell
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 12:57pm
I like your way of putting it! Maybe that's a good way to understand what's going on with Timo Boll - his perspective seems like the pure sporting ethics one?
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Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 1:05pm
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H3 National is available on DHS official web store and at authorized retailers at a premium - much much higher than any Tensors they sell and the T05. The bottom line, it still sells like hot cakes. ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
Posted By: ohwell
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 1:31pm
I wish we could see the sales figures. You may be right, but my hunch is that, as with a lot of things, popular items among very informed buyers and EJs represent a tiny fraction of the sales. But again you may well be right. |
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 2:02pm
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The monthly sales figures are there on Taobao. You'll be amazed by how many they manage to sell. ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
Posted By: al_111
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 2:59pm
I would guess that Chinese internal market alone has plenty of buyers who are informed enough
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Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 3:20pm
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All right. Here is the monthly sales figures for all rubbers sold on https://dhsyundong.world.tmall.com/category-1328600895.htm?spm=a312a.7700824.w4011-11198599001.84.125249fzzSwyU&catName=%C6%B9%C5%D2%CC%D7%BD%BA&scene=taobao_shop&catId=1328600895&search=y&orderType=hotsell_desc" rel="nofollow - DHS official web store at TMall : Ranked by numbers sold for the past 30 days:
------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 3:41pm
holy cr@p! I did not know that non-Neo H3 was still so wildly popular - wonder why? That being said, National sales there are no great shakes - as I'm assuming that casual players in China can get commercial from other local sources (ie: at their club). ------------- Trade feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787 |
Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 3:44pm
Perhaps. But, what Timo is complaining about is a situation in which only one of them is using boosters. In which case, at their level of calibrated mini-advancements in level, using boosters probably makes a decent enough difference. ------------- Trade feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787 |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 3:52pm
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Apparently not always. There is no shot that Chinese players hit that I have not seen performed by European players. They are not better because of their rubbers. They are better because of the intensity and quality of coaching and training and level of competition of practice partners from about age 6 until they retire. There are many reasons for this. |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 3:55pm
Like night and day. |
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 3:57pm
A big part of the reason is that the H3 you buy now is practically the same as the H3 Neo, except it doesn't come with that layer of glue/tuner/primer. The topsheet and sponge are practically the same, not the old one with the old line art designed for the speed glue, the stock of which has been depleted. ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 4:02pm
Wait, wut? I did not know that - this is useful info. So, this version is the http://ttnpp.com/store/dhs/225-dhs-hurricane-3-provincial-version-6-edges-6.html" rel="nofollow - same as H3NP? Also, how come H8 did not take off as much in China? Sorry for the brief threadjack! ------------- Trade feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787 |
Posted By: berndt_mann
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 4:09pm
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Ping Pong Tradition Ma, why do you boost? Why do you tune? Why must you live out The stuff that you're doin'? Ain't Hurricane 3 Simply good enough for ye? Why must you soak it With that oil called Dianchi? Suppose you and Timo Played a match with no oils. Would it make any difference As to who gets the spoils? Let me tell you, spuds I'm the world's top pro. Put yourself in my position-- If I stay up all night So my rubber don't dome, It's a ping pong tradition. ------------- bmann1942 Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
Posted By: the_theologian
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 4:09pm
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Strange that the sales figures lump gold arc 5 and 8 together ------------- Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max |
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 4:17pm
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That is the old package for the H3 Provincial. The new package is the one in dark purple. H8? Price. For that amount, why not just go for H3 Provincial? Another reason is that the CNT still use H3. ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
Posted By: berndt_mann
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 4:22pm
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So the CNT still uses H3, Do they still boost it illegally? ------------- bmann1942 Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 4:27pm
There is a promotion going on right now, where for every GoldArc 5/8 bought, you get a 10-pack 1-star D40+. The promotion started in spring. I guess they created a consolidated product page for those two to reduce confusion.  ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
Posted By: berndt_mann
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 6:30pm
Would they be better if The Lord of Hosts, who let us remember plays with a 2" X 1" Hock No. 1 1-ply poplar hardbat with the Heavenliest Leyland rubber Heaven can provide, were to proclaim Enough Is Enough! Train as hard as you want from age 6 on, as intensely as you can, with top quality coaches, incredible competition and practice partners galore but....no more sponge or boosters as this situation has gotten completely out of hand. Would these titans ot table tennis still be what they are not only without boosting oils but without sponge rubber altogether? Time to level the playing field once again and once and for all. Either that or, since Halloween is coming up shortly, have charitable well off folk pass out Hurricane 3 Professional and Seamoon Exclusive for all the trick or treating pros, not just a chosen few, instead of Kit Kats, M & Ms, and Hershey's kisses. ------------- bmann1942 Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 9:14pm
 Am I the only one that finds it ironic that while some ppl claim boosting rubbers gives the chinese players an advantage, neither Ma Long nor Lin Gaoyuan won the Men's World Cup in Belgium?!??. Shouldn't that be an indication that boosting does not necessarily mean having an advantage? Boosting does not guarantee a win!!! not at all! and BTW...this is Ma Longs old racket with Tenergy 05 on the backside (2011)...  FdT |
Posted By: berndt_mann
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 10:14pm
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(FdT) Am I the only one that finds it ironic that while some ppl claim
boosting rubbers gives the chinese players an advantage, neither Ma Long
nor Lin Gaoyuan won the Men's World
Cup in Belgium?!??. Shouldn't that be an indication that boosting does
not necessarily mean having an advantage? Boosting does not guarantee a
win!!! not at all! I'm not among the throng who claim that boosting rubbers gives advantage only to the Chinese players. Virtually all the pros boost, either because they think that they'll gain some sort of advantage by boosting, or if they don't boost, they're going to be at a disadvantage playing opponents who do. You're right. Boosting doesn't necessarily guarantee that you're gonna win some kind of title, but as sure as it don't rain in Indianapolis in the summertime the pros seem to believe this, or why all this boosting mania in the first place? What's it all about, Alfie? You know, boosting is a question of monumental unconcern to all but a few thousand Americans and probably an equivalent number of Canadians. But it does give us hard core types who post to tt forums something to talk about. Could it be that the average Yank and the average Canuck are saner than we? Maybe. At least when they play recpong in their recrooms or garages they don't know that some of the things they are doing are illegal. Can the same be said of the pros? ------------- bmann1942 Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 10/27/2017 at 10:32pm
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" But it does give us hard core types who post to tt forums something to talk about. " Agreed! " Could it be that the average Yank and the average Canuck are saner than we? " NO! Have you seen the sports those PPL watch in their spare time? Golf, Poker, Darts, Baseball....How lame are they!! How low does your IQ have to be to find amusement on things like "Wrestling"... Now, some comments in this site leave me baffled, but there's a few very informative posts as well. FdT |
Posted By: berndt_mann
Date Posted: 10/28/2017 at 12:49am
Now hold it right there, hoser. You do realize, don't you, that you are libeling a few hundred million bill-paying, tax-paying, law abiding, perfectly nice Americans plus a few tens of millions of Canadians as well. When I'm not reading Tolstoy in Russian, Lao Tzu in cryptographic Chinese, or simply going to the crapper, I enjoy an occasional golf match, high stakes poker game from Vegas (is that a sport? ESPN thinks it is), have been known to toss a few darts (not very accurately), and just concluded seeing the Houston Astros defeat the Los Angeles Dodgers to win the third game of the World Series. And I have an IQ once estimated to be around 303. Wrassling is a lot of fun. Where else can you see two gynormous guys lifting one another over their heads and tossing the other out of the ring and then proceeding to beat the tossee senseless with a folding chair? What red-blooded longshoreman or lumberjack wouldn't want to see that? So who watches ping pong? Guys hunched over their laptops getting their jollies off a few guys or gals 99% of the world outside of Asia have ever heard of. And this is supposed to keep the old IQ in prime working order? And worst of all, these people don't even pretend to play fair. Every now and then, someone who posts to this forum does make sense. Especially me. ------------- bmann1942 Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 10/28/2017 at 2:23am
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http://pingsunday.com/chinese-doping-table-tennis/" rel="nofollow - A different kind of booster, this one not so legal... ------------- Trade feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787 |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/28/2017 at 7:12am
| Yes slevin, the linked articles in the Guardian and Irish Times are more clearly written. There you will notice that she is alleging that massive systematic doping occurred in the 1980s and 90s, especially before tbe 1988 Olympics. I believe her. Doesn't have much to do with athletes in 2017. WADA would certainly not "ignore" doping of Chinese athletes. They are nothing if not zealous. By the way, WADA didn't exist until 1999. |
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 10/28/2017 at 12:04pm
I want to take this chance to fill people in on how ML felt over equipment. The passage below came from the other news feed about http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=80687&PID=1000795&title=speak-with-boll-world-cup-wins-were-no-fluke#1000795" rel="nofollow - ML taking a page from Federer's book .
(At the World Cup 2014 in Dusseldorf, after a grueling seven-gamer with ZJK, ML conceded at 3:4. Afterward, the old-school ML decided to switch out his long-standing backhand sponge. Not only did this change take courage, but it also gave rise to unease during the technical shift brought about by the equipment change. "Looking back, if it wasn't because of that (loss), I wouldn't have had the resolve to switch equipment, and probably there wouldn't have been the subsequent me." said Ma Long.) ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 10/28/2017 at 12:11pm
OK - I did not check the date on. WADA isn't all that it is cracked out to be. In Netflix (streaming), there is a free documentary called Icarus. You should see it - it is very revealing about WADA and state-sponsored doping (albeit in a different country). ------------- Trade feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787 |
Posted By: bbkon
Date Posted: 10/28/2017 at 12:19pm
true national h3 has different pips under the topsheet to make it lower throw |
Posted By: berndt_mann
Date Posted: 10/28/2017 at 12:29pm
One can only wonder, however: Is Grandma still home? ------------- bmann1942 Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
Posted By: ohwell
Date Posted: 10/28/2017 at 1:17pm
Hmm, If that’s true, wouldn’t the rubber have to be registered under a different ittf number? Very interesting. I’d be glad to hear more about this. |
Posted By: bbkon
Date Posted: 10/28/2017 at 2:52pm
there are pics of the topsheet cross section in this forum http://tt-maximum.com/forum/index.php/topic,4916.0.html there is no special batch even provincial has shorter pips and if my eyes dont lie nat pips are more flex resistant |
Posted By: bbkon
Date Posted: 10/28/2017 at 3:19pm
the flight path and bounce of strong h3 loop is very different |
Posted By: berndt_mann
Date Posted: 10/28/2017 at 4:31pm
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Ping-Pong: “The World Anti-Doping Agency is challenging a decision that cleared Olympic table tennis medalist Dimitrij Ovtcharov of doping despite his positive test for clenbuterol.” Ovtcharov claims he ate contaminated meat. The German federation bought it. The kicker: Clenbuterol “burns fat and builds muscle.” But unless he was dabbling in some http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hruby/060512" rel="nofollow - Barry Bonds cocktails that improve your eyesight, how does this drug help a ping-pong player? [ http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/09/AR2010120903886.html" rel="nofollow - AP ] (thebiglead.com, 2010) Yeow. Dima seven years ago taking something he probably shouldn't have taken and then claiming that this was due to contaminated meat that he ate? Does anyone think that back then (and possibly now) he just might have doped his rubber too? What a sport! Dima and Timo, who has presumably since Seen the Light and forsaken juicing up his rubber, were and as far as anyone can tell, still are Germany's best players. You suppose the German federation would really toss a player's ass for something as trivial as using some stuff that "burns fat and builds muscle."? Oh Hell no. And how about those Chinese athletes in the '80s and '90s? Kids, juniors, men, women all tanked to the eyebrows. Woodstock.
------------- bmann1942 Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/28/2017 at 8:07pm
| Actually clenbuteral was often used as a feed additive for animals raised for food in China. WADA is usually pretty merciless. But you never know. For that matter do we really know that Timo doesn't boost? |
Posted By: the_theologian
Date Posted: 10/28/2017 at 8:13pm
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Mini rant: Test for voc's, forget boosters, bring back hidden serves and leave it at that. Most pros are boosting and hiding their serves and the rules/enforcement for both issues are totally failing. ------------- Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max |
Posted By: berndt_mann
Date Posted: 10/29/2017 at 12:05am
(cctv.com.english) Source: CCTV.com07-29-2008 09:31http://intl.2008.cctv.com/index.shtml" rel="nofollow - -Players and coaches from the China's national table tennis team have vowed to turn down drugs. All of them put their promises on to paper at a special ceremony in Wuxi, Jiangsu province on Sunday. They´ve already held their last closed-door training session ahead of the Summer Olympics.
Ma Lin, current world No.2 said said "For me, this is the first time that I've taken part in such a ceremony as an athlete. As far as I know, we table tennis players have never taken drugs before, but we still need to do this to show our commitment." Well, that's a bit of good news, though the players who put their promises on paper didn't say one way or another whether they are still going to continue to dope their rubbers. Maybe Ma Lin, who worked his way up the Chinese pong system in the '90s was one of the lucky few who was so skilled as a kid and later a junior and a young adult that the pong powers that were concluded that he didn't need any extra enhancements to perk up his eventually world class game. I'm inclined to doubt that, as Ma started playing table tennis at age 5 in 1985, when every Chinese athlete, according to a physician who had to flee China in fear of imprisonment, blew the whistle that in the '80s and '90s about 10,000 Chinese athletes in many sports including tt played stuffed with stuff she did not feel it was ethical to use, win at any cost or no. Or maybe he was just putting on the CCTV reporter when he said "as far as I know, we table tennis players have never taken drugs before....." ------------- bmann1942 Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
Posted By: LUCKYLOOP
Date Posted: 10/29/2017 at 2:14am
If Timo gets his rubber from his sponsor the manufacturer, he doesn't alter it, but replaces it every few days especially before a tournament, then he is not boosting. ------------- Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/29/2017 at 10:22am
| If. |
Posted By: Roger Stillabower
Date Posted: 10/29/2017 at 10:35am
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Even if he get's his rubber from the manufacturer they apply the oil to the sponge to get the exact weight he wants. That is what Timo said about getting his factory rubbers, that he ask for a certain weights. ------------- Shifter |