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physical training?

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Topic: physical training?

Posted By: twinblock
Subject: physical training?
Date Posted: 04/18/2014 at 3:32pm

What kind of physical training do you suggest to strengthen legs? Just play more frequently?

My legs are the first to get tired from playing TT.
Especially my calves(cramping), then soreness of the knees and just above knees.

Thanks

Replies:

Posted By: 808ponger
Date Posted: 04/18/2014 at 5:51pm

I would say do some slow distance running to build cardio and endurance mixed with sprints to help with strength and explosiveness.

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BTY Harimoto Stiga DNA M

Posted By: TonyL
Date Posted: 04/18/2014 at 5:55pm

Running and skipping ropes.

Posted By: V-Griper
Date Posted: 04/18/2014 at 6:12pm

Need to up your base level strength then work on endurance. That means weight training especially Olympic lifts like squats and dead lifts. In your case calf raises would help. Then some interval training for cardio if you want quicker results. Skipping rope would be ideal for you as well. If you can, do a lot of multiball footwork training as cardio.

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DHS 301
Xiom Vega 7pro FH/BH

Posted By: mswishe4
Date Posted: 04/18/2014 at 9:17pm

Ab Ripper X and Plyo-X from the p90X series, that'll get your legs and core in prime condition for table tennis.

Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 04/18/2014 at 10:04pm

V-Griper wrote:

Need to up your base level strength then work on endurance. That means weight training especially Olympic lifts like squats and dead lifts. In your case calf raises would help. Then some interval training for cardio if you want quicker results. Skipping rope would be ideal for you as well. If you can, do a lot of multiball footwork training as cardio.

Squats and jump rope are golden and easy to do, don't even need a weight room. A heavy sandbag will do, and is also useful for weight resistance in many other decent calastinics exercises.

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Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc

Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 04/18/2014 at 10:05pm

Such a weight resistance of body and sandbag is easy to make, easy to understand how to perform, inexpensive, and great for the core where you need it.

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Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc

Posted By: GeneralSpecific
Date Posted: 04/18/2014 at 10:11pm

Don't forget the leg press if you can get to one.

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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm
Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge

Posted By: jrscatman
Date Posted: 04/18/2014 at 10:42pm

twinblock wrote:

What kind of physical training do you suggest to strengthen legs? Just play more frequently?

My legs are the first to get tired from playing TT.
Especially my calves(cramping), then soreness of the knees and just above knees.

Thanks

After how long do feel these symptoms?

Cramping could be related to dehydration.

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Butterfly MPS
FH: Donic Acuda S1
BH: Palio CK531A OX

Posted By: twinblock
Date Posted: 04/19/2014 at 12:12am

Thanks for all the replies! :)
This really give me a direction on what I have to do, although I'm kinda dreading leg workouts... it really burns, especially around the knees.

I get these symptoms after about an hour of intense practice, but I dont play regularly, so usually after a long rest (1-2 weeks without play).

I agree that I'm probably dehydrated since I really dont drink all that much water.

How often do you guys do workouts and play TT?

Posted By: JacekGM
Date Posted: 04/19/2014 at 2:17am

One simple exercise that I find effective (for cardio and legs) is quickly climbing and running down the stairs, repeat a few times, a few times a day... seriously. It can be done anywhere in a taller building.

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(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.

Posted By: CraneStyle
Date Posted: 04/19/2014 at 5:17am

twinblock wrote:

Thanks for all the replies! :)
This really give me a direction on what I have to do, although I'm kinda dreading leg workouts... it really burns, especially around the knees.

I get these symptoms after about an hour of intense practice, but I dont play regularly, so usually after a long rest (1-2 weeks without play).

I agree that I'm probably dehydrated since I really dont drink all that much water.

How often do you guys do workouts and play TT?

I've had this problem...

Your knees hurt because your quads (muscles at the front of your thighs)
are "asleep" - muscles are not warmed up and actively working. Leaving your
knees doing more work than they should.

Make sure you do some knees apart toes out squats, bending inline with
your feet before you play...

You might feel you are wearing out your muscles before you play, but they are just warming up...

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1. Mizutani Jun ZLC, FH T80, BH T05

Posted By: Tassie52
Date Posted: 04/19/2014 at 6:31am

Seriously, people! Where are you getting this stuff from? Are you making it up as you go along, or are you simply repeating the myths spun to you by the TV promotions?

AbRipper? You must be kidding. There is zero evidence of any correlation between core body strength and athletic ability. Read the work by Thomas Nesser PhD at Indiana State University and abandon ideas put into your heads by TV advertising.

Slow distance running? As a marathon runner with some relatively respectable performances, let me tell you that distance running makes you good at distance running. It doesn't make you any better at TT.

Olympic lifts like squats? Yes! if you want to be an Olympic weight lifter. Useless if you want to play a sport where you move rapidly from side to side. Think about it - you're not meant to be jumping up and down; you're meant to stay down and move laterally.

And this one is the best of all:

"Your knees hurt because your quads (muscles at the front of your thighs) are 'asleep' - muscles are not warmed up and actively working. Leaving your knees doing more work than they should."

In case no-one has noticed, the knees are a hinge. They don't do "work" in the same way a muscle works. They bend. That's all. Knee pain is not muscle pain. In fact, the knees can't do anything unless the muscles above and below them are working.

A number of suggestions here will help you get fit - and that can't be a bad thing. Go ahead and do some skipping, do some running or even stair climbing. Being fit (and probably losing some weight) will be good for you overall. But if you want to develop your table tennis muscles, then do table tennis exercises.

And BTW, cramping has sod all to do with dehydration. At least, that's what Kevin Miller PhD the professor at the Athletic Training Program at North Dakota State University says. But what would he know? Cramping? Forget the water: try drinking pickle juice.

Posted By: CraneStyle
Date Posted: 04/19/2014 at 8:32am

Tassie52 wrote:

Seriously, people! Where are you getting this stuff from? Are you making it up as you go along, or are you simply repeating the myths spun to you by the TV promotions?

And this one is the best of all:

"Your knees hurt because your quads (muscles at the front of your thighs) are 'asleep' - muscles are not warmed up and actively working. Leaving your knees doing more work than they should."

In case no-one has noticed, the knees are a hinge. They don't do "work" in the same way a muscle works. They bend. That's all. Knee pain is not muscle pain. In fact, the knees can't do anything unless the muscles above and below them are working.

A number of suggestions here will help you get fit - and that can't be a bad thing. Go ahead and do some skipping, do some running or even stair climbing. Being fit (and probably losing some weight) will be good for you overall. But if you want to develop your table tennis muscles, then do table tennis exercises.

And BTW, cramping has sod all to do with dehydration. At least, that's what Kevin Miller PhD the professor at the Athletic Training Program at North Dakota State University says. But what would he know? Cramping? Forget the water: try drinking pickle juice.

If you don't understand what I said don't discredit it. Do your research first. ...

You didn't give any help to the OP.

The tendons in the knees are supported by all the muscle groups in the legs and glutes actually. ...

... and yes I stand by everything that I said. I know it is right because I have been through patella tendon
rehabilitation and now play without any support what so ever.

Bring something to the table. Preferably more than a bad attitude...

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1. Mizutani Jun ZLC, FH T80, BH T05

Posted By: Entering_ripcity
Date Posted: 04/19/2014 at 9:28am

Tassie52 wrote:

Seriously, people! Where are you getting this stuff from? Are you making it up as you go along, or are you simply repeating the myths spun to you by the TV promotions?

And this one is the best of all:

"Your knees hurt because your quads (muscles at the
front of your thighs) are 'asleep' - muscles are not warmed up and actively working. Leaving your knees doing more work than they should."

Core is absolutely important for table tennis as it is for any sport and just daily functional living. A lot of people think of core as only abdominals but it actually covers multiple muscle groups; some even consider glutes as part of the core. Core provides stability for your entire body. Fh power comes from primarily from leg and core muscles. So no, there are direct correlations between core strength and atheltic abilty. I'm curious to see the article you mention by the Indiana State researcher, you should post it. I agree deep squating with heavy weight wouldn't be incorporated in a table tennis program but squating is absolutely an essential exercise for table tennis players. Think about the position you are in when you play (should be constantly in a squating position). Think about what you do when you lift a ball off under spin just as one example of how explosive motions are involved in table tennis. You are shifting your body weight to one side then exploding upwards and forward shifting most of your weight to your opposite side. If you don't think explosive motion exercises like jumping as you mentioned, don't correlate to movements in table tennis, you clearly have a poor understanding of biomechanics involved in TT.

Also, cranestyle is correct in a sense although he shouldn't be trying to diagnose someones knee pain over the internet. If your quads are not firing correctly your knees will be overcompensating for this weakness. Although saying that is the reason your knees are hurting is generalizing. There are many possible reasons for his knee pain, and saying "your knees are hurting because...." is misguided.

Posted By: Entering_ripcity
Date Posted: 04/19/2014 at 9:43am

I would suggest figuring out what specifically you want to improve in table tennis and train apprioatley to that. Usually it's agility. Low impact agility drills (ie latter drills) are great for table tennis.Higher impact plyometrics (explosive motions) will also help with footwork, try frog jumps, box jumps, barrier hurdles. Generally strengthening will help with weakness and pain. Try working in some exercises that isolate one muscle at a time, glutes and quads especially since you have knee pain and weakness. Strengthening will also help in developing better foot speed. Long distance running will surely be beneficial for table tennis but it's not going to make you any quicker on the table; sprints can help when working on improving footwork and agility. Practice quick lateral movements you can even incorporate them into your sprinting drills.

Posted By: Re1Mu2R3
Date Posted: 04/19/2014 at 11:11am

Physical training!? What the hell is that!? ONLY EQUIPMENT MATTERS!!!!!
WRONG FORUM to ask this question!!! >:(

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How to play Table Tennis:
#1. Be Chinese (Ethnicity)
#2. Be Chinese(Citizenship)
#3. BE CHINESE(In Heart, Mind and Spirit)
#4: Get a Chinese Coach
#5. Get a Chinese Forehand Rubber (Black)

Posted By: CraneStyle
Date Posted: 04/19/2014 at 11:15am

Entering_ripcity wrote:

Tassie52 wrote:

Seriously, people! Where are you getting this stuff from? Are you making it up as you go along, or are you simply repeating the myths spun to you by the TV promotions?

And this one is the best of all:

"Your knees hurt because your quads (muscles at the
front of your thighs) are 'asleep' - muscles are not warmed up and actively working. Leaving your knees doing more work than they should."

Core is absolutely important for table tennis as it is for any sport and just daily functional living. A lot of people think of core as only abdominals but it actually covers multiple muscle groups; some even consider glutes as part of the core. Core provides stability for your entire body. Fh power comes from primarily from leg and core muscles. So no, there are direct correlations between core strength and atheltic abilty. I'm curious to see the article you mention by the Indiana State researcher, you should post it. I agree deep squating with heavy weight wouldn't be incorporated in a table tennis program but squating is absolutely an essential exercise for table tennis players. Think about the position you are in when you play (should be constantly in a squating position). Think about what you do when you lift a ball off under spin just as one example of how explosive motions are involved in table tennis. You are shifting your body weight to one side then exploding upwards and forward shifting most of your weight to your opposite side. If you don't think explosive motion exercises like as jumping as you mentioned, don't correlate to movements in table tennis, you clearly have a poor understanding of biomechanics involved in TT.

Also, cranestyle is correct in a sense although he shouldn't be trying to diagnose someones knee pain over the internet. If your quads are not firing correctly your knees will be overcompensating for this weakness. Although saying that is the reason your knees are hurting is generalizing. There are many possible reasons for his knee pain, and saying "your knees are hurting because...." is misguided.

Yeah I agree. I'm not a doctor, my bad...

From experience, I was just tying to share the need to warm up certain muscle groups before we play to avoid stress and strains...

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1. Mizutani Jun ZLC, FH T80, BH T05

Posted By: V-Griper
Date Posted: 04/19/2014 at 11:53am

Tassie52 wrote:

Seriously, people! Where are you getting this stuff from? Are you making it up as you go along, or are you simply repeating the myths spun to you by the TV promotions?

And this one is the best of all:

"Your knees hurt because your quads (muscles at the front of your thighs) are 'asleep' - muscles are not warmed up and actively working. Leaving your knees doing more work than they should."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reLw6LSYP1s" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reLw6LSYP1s

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DHS 301
Xiom Vega 7pro FH/BH

Posted By: jrscatman
Date Posted: 04/19/2014 at 12:36pm

Tassie52 wrote:

Seriously, people! Where are you getting this stuff from? Are you making it up as you go along, or are you simply repeating the myths spun to you by the TV promotions?

And this one is the best of all:

"Your knees hurt because your quads (muscles at the front of your thighs) are 'asleep' - muscles are not warmed up and actively working. Leaving your knees doing more work than they should."

Why drink pickle juice - Kevin Miller said he has no conclusive evidence to say anything - so you're making stuff up now?

Yeah ok pickle juice has electrolytes that might help - but Kevin Miller's study say there not enough evidence.

But anyone involved in exercise knows - if you don't stay hydrated you'll get cramps. Tassie52, you wait for the scientists to give the a-ok before doing anything!

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Butterfly MPS
FH: Donic Acuda S1
BH: Palio CK531A OX

Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 04/19/2014 at 4:34pm

JacekGM wrote:

One simple exercise that I find effective (for cardio and legs) is quickly climbing and running down the stairs, repeat a few times, a few times a day... seriously. It can be done anywhere in a taller building.

Better than climbing stairs he can come to my 5 acre property and weedeat my 35 degree slope. I'll even provide the Weedeater. Smile

Posted By: JacekGM
Date Posted: 04/19/2014 at 7:34pm

Climbing stairs is a great exercise. I know of one men's olympic volleyball team that trained that way and they won gold. This exercise is also great for obese TT players.

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(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.

Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 04/20/2014 at 6:56pm

Climbing upstairs (better with some weight added in ruck) is GREAT, but take the elevator down. Going downstairs places 10X more strain on knees/joints.

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Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc

Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 04/20/2014 at 7:02pm

You get cramps from a hydration and mineral deficiency coupled with heavy exertion over time. The way to prevent them is simple, prior pre-loading of muscles with glycogen, prior hydration loading 1-2 days prior, and good management of hydration, mineral, nutrition, exertion match day. For many people who have juiced up the day or two prior, it is simply a matter of eating a small breakfast meal before match, eating a banana every couple hours, drinking water all the time, and eating some slow carb stuff like oatmeal bar or sandwich during matchday between matches bit by bit.

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Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc

Posted By: figgie
Date Posted: 05/16/2014 at 5:18pm

When did squats and deadlifts become "Olympic" lifts???

I though that was the snatch, clean and jerk etc?

;)

On the squats and deadliftss. DO THEM. They are bench mark strength training.

TT Does help but slowly.

every single pro athlete does squats and Deads. The target is 150% of ones own body weight. Just because you lift does not mean you are going to get Mr. Olympia huge.

i am up 27 pounds from when i used to play about 2 years ago. I can tell you that i am moving much much better than before.

Squats.......275#

Dead Lifts..315#

i do play table tennis. It has been a year since I got back. My game suffered as I gained weight (Was at 220 but not a fit 220 ;) ). Now at 217 (My "peak" before i was weighing 185) i am moving better than ever. Hell I feel better then when i was 19 (and I am 40 now).

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Speed glue, booster, tuner free since 2006!!!

Posted By: beeray1
Date Posted: 05/16/2014 at 6:39pm

FIGGIE OMG YOU'RE ALIVE

Don't listen to that bullcrap OP, squatting helps a lot. It's not some myth... you will literally feel the difference in a matter of days/weeks. Your core is very important in TT too. Bike riding helps a lot with muscle endurance in your thighs as well.

After you feel the difference right away, maybe the guys who post these results can include you in a new study because they are baffled about how there can be a correlation. Nah, the difference is a complete coincidence and probably came from drinking pickle juice 2 weeks ago. Nothing to do with the strength and endurance training.

Posted By: Tassie52
Date Posted: 05/16/2014 at 10:36pm

Posted By: GeneralSpecific
Date Posted: 05/17/2014 at 12:11am

Yeah the eating every 2-3 hours thing is not true at all.

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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm
Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge

Posted By: igorponger
Date Posted: 05/17/2014 at 12:50am

FOREWORD:
my present advice is for real sporty men only.
Lazy beery people is free to reject my hint and you had better go and crush a beer mug dry., Yes.

ADVICE:
some Yoga assana's may help, mild.
Go and take some yoga lessons.

Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 05/17/2014 at 1:35am

Tassie52 wrote:

Seriously, people! Where are you getting this stuff from? Are you making it up as you go along, or are you simply repeating the myths spun to you by the TV promotions?

And this one is the best of all:

"Your knees hurt because your quads (muscles at the front of your thighs) are 'asleep' - muscles are not warmed up and actively working. Leaving your knees doing more work than they should."

I totally agree with this comment. It is amazing how much conventional wisdom is contradicted by actual research. Cramping can emerge from vitamin D deficiencies however, which are very very common, probably because people don't get out in the sunlight so much these days. About three months of taking a Vitamin D supplement (1000-5000 U/day) may reduce the incidence and severity of cramping (worked for me), and is likely to have some other health benefits as well.

Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 05/17/2014 at 2:04am

Yoga a couple of times will help.

Posted By: figgie
Date Posted: 05/20/2014 at 6:35pm

beeray1 wrote:

FIGGIE OMG YOU'RE ALIVE

Indeed I am :)

I came back after a short Hiatus.

Well back minus two Timo Boll ZLC LE that where BOTH stolen (Serial numbers 001 and 003). lol. That hurt. lots. hence me quitting.

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Speed glue, booster, tuner free since 2006!!!