Playing Level To rubber cost ratio
Printed From: Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET
Category: Equipment
Forum Name: Equipment
Forum Description: Share your experience and discussions about table tennis equipments.
Moderator: haggisv
Assistant Moderators: position available
URL: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=66324
Printed Date: 05/02/2024 at 1:15am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Playing Level To rubber cost ratio
Posted By: Mark H
Subject: Playing Level To rubber cost ratio
Date Posted: 04/22/2014 at 6:43pm
|
Would a person under 1800 really benefit from using tenergy of tenergy replacement rubbers? Should the rubbers a person under 1800 be under say 25 dollars a sheet? I'm just wondering at which point does it not make sense for an intermediate level player to spend on a rubber that he would not even be able to achieve what the rubber offers at the premium prices. ------------- Blade: Timo Boll Spirit AN FH: Black Renanos Hold 2.1 mm BH: Red Renanos Hold 2.1 mm |
Replies:
Posted By: smackman
Date Posted: 04/22/2014 at 6:55pm
|
there are no correct answers to the question as it depends on so many variables, I think people assumes everyone else is like themselves ------------- Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website |
Posted By: Reinecke
Date Posted: 04/22/2014 at 6:56pm
|
I feel I use Tenergy to its full potential. My playing level has nothing to do with my rubber selection. It has everything to do with practice and the various aspects of the game. Besides I can use Tenergy for a long time as it is durable, and I can afford new sheets if necessary. I think it is wrong to associate cost of a rubber with skill level. Would a person under 1800 really benefit from using tenergy of tenergy replacement rubbers? Yes. Should the rubbers a person under 1800 be under say 25 dollars a sheet? No. ------------- Mizutani Jun ST Tenergy 64 Tenergy 64 
|
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 04/22/2014 at 6:59pm
|
The question is a bit overhyped. I playe my best TT from 1500 to 1700 with Tenergy and Baracuda. While rubber is not a big deal, trusting what you use is. ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 04/22/2014 at 7:45pm
My preferred FH rubber is Low $30s Aurus and $8 XP 2008 Super Power. $40ish for both rubbers, not bad, plays pretty well for me. ------------- Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc |
Mark H wrote:Posted By: aroonkl
Date Posted: 04/22/2014 at 8:52pm
|
Mark, It depends on Dough in your pocket and how do u like the rubber. If yes, go for it. Don't put it on too fast blade, it will be ok. If overall is too fast, it will damage or drag u from learning and developing proper strokes.
|
Posted By: JacekGM
Date Posted: 04/22/2014 at 9:23pm
I am pretty sure they might... I know a few people around 1400 who use T05 for blocking style game and they do generate good shots with bad strokes... ------------- (1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH. |
Posted By: puppy412
Date Posted: 04/22/2014 at 9:36pm
|
this thread is very similar to this other one http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=66287&PN=2#798212 why do people get mad at beginners using the most expensive latest stuff? I don't really get it. is it like a "you are new so you need to suffer, you need to earn your right to use that equipment" type of reasoning? |
Posted By: jfolsen
Date Posted: 04/22/2014 at 10:08pm
|
It doesn't bother me at all that lower ranked players buy expensive equipment. If they have the money, more power to them for propping up the economy. Weekend golfers get custom fitted clubs that cost thousands, if that is what they want and it makes them happy who am I to interfere? I am a little bothered by the type of equipment they pick, blazing fast blades and max thickness rubbers when they don't have a hope of controlling them. Tenergy is readily available in 1.9. Butterfly makes expensive blades that aren't Offensive+, but apparently there is some sort of taboo on purchasing that. |
Posted By: mhnh007
Date Posted: 04/22/2014 at 10:10pm
| So what is your rating, considering your Renano Hold cost twice as much at $50. |
Posted By: Rich215
Date Posted: 04/22/2014 at 10:18pm
|
I like it when lower ranked players I play use expensive rubbers. They tend to be faster, more bouncy, and less control rubber that my spin game works better for. The lower ranked players with cheap pre-mades are more of a dislike for me to play with. I could really care less what people want to spend their own money on as it is their right and freedom to do so. They learn at some point that they dont need expensive equipment that is too fast or not controllable at some point when they play enough. But again, not all expensive equipment is fast and some are fairly controllable with certian combos of rubbers and blades. ------------- |
Posted By: puppy412
Date Posted: 04/22/2014 at 10:27pm
|
|
Posted By: puppy412
Date Posted: 04/22/2014 at 10:28pm
I've never come across equipment that was so fast that by itself it would cause you to throw the ball out. when the ball goes out long it's because you put the paddle in the wrong angle, not because the equipment is too fast. |
Posted By: jfolsen
Date Posted: 04/22/2014 at 10:43pm
|
I see it all the time. People who can't hit 3 balls in a row without just blocking on the forehand, who are afraid to swing out because when they do the ball hits the back wall. I see others who don't care, trying to loop-kill the ball as hard as they can, not making half of them, but the ones that land are spectacular. Or people who mostly push and block on the backhand, but they have trouble receiving serves because they are using some max thickness modern tensor rubber. |
Posted By: tom
Date Posted: 04/23/2014 at 2:47pm
+1. Right on with both points.
|
Posted By: popperlocker
Date Posted: 04/23/2014 at 3:51pm
| Price doesn't matter, it's all about speed and spin. Don't worry about spending money, but it has to be slow and controllable. Like riding motorcycles, would you put a beginner on a 2000cc beast? He would die. Don't worry about spending $200 or $300, just as long as it says DEF on blade and rubber. Also, have a Tenergy setup on the side, for those days you want to test your skill. If you're playing like a skitzo cripple, you know you're not ready yet. |
Posted By: townhousecrackers
Date Posted: 04/23/2014 at 4:00pm
|
I dont understand why people get so worked up about this topic. If the player is new but is getting proper training and practicing regularly its ok to play with Tenergy as first rubber. I have seen too many 8-12 yr olds start playing with tenergy, xiom, etc that just start off with proper training and then in 2-3 years are nearing or over 2000 usatt. If you already have bad habits, dont get training and just play recreationally, obviously playing with super fast equipment is going to make you less consistent, ESPECIALLY if you play better people than you. Slower equipment would be only be ideal for learning players who are trying to get better and do the majority of their learning through playing and experience, this way they can learn while not putting themselves out of games by using unctrollable equipment. I think its that simple. I don't see how people can disagree so much about this ------------- VKM RED Tenergy 05 2.1 Black Dtecs OX |
Posted By: rusttt
Date Posted: 04/23/2014 at 4:08pm
|
Okay awesome players who can piss down upon me from a great height, test my logic for me. I feel like using slow equipment when you first start enables you to start engaging more of your strength using bigger strokes where fast blades and bouncy rubbers push you to passive play and small strokes to retain any control. Once you can use power and want to play further from the table, you can move up a level in equipment. Speaking just for myself, when I jump too far ahead on speed my whole game suffers. Note that this has zero to do with price. This is such a cheap sport compared to anything else I've done that buying top of the line stuff isn't a question of money, just suitability for my game and an unfortunate curiosity about that always greener area just the other side of the net. |
Posted By: 808ponger
Date Posted: 04/23/2014 at 4:15pm
|
Some sub $25rubbers I've tried: Yinhe Moon, Air Illumina, Gambler Outlaw, 729 Focus 3, Palio Hidden Dragon, Tuttle Beijing 4, DHS Neo I switched to Xiom rubbers because I have gear snob tendencies and highly susceptible to marketing. The German rubbers do feel better and offer more performance however I don't think any of those cheaper rubbers is going to hold anyone back. ------------- BTY Harimoto Stiga DNA M |
Posted By: wturber
Date Posted: 04/23/2014 at 6:25pm
Yep. It just depends. Two key variables to consider. 1) How much money you got? 2) How much are you going to train to improve beyond 1800 and how far beyond do you plan to go? My main point in questions like these is to remind people that equipment, while important, is no magic bullet that can substitute for technique and training. ------------- Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
Posted By: DDreamer
Date Posted: 04/23/2014 at 10:51pm
|
I don't see that much of a problem with lower level players using Tenergy or tensors but they simply don't need to if money is an issue. IMO most sub 2200ish players don't have the technique to get the full benefit of the rubber when looping. With blades I also don't think it matters if a lower level player uses an expensive blade but again they don't need to have one if money is an issue. The main thing though is that too fast a blade will, in many/most cases, be a hindrance to their development. ------------- I know that faster equipment will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out |
Posted By: Reinecke
Date Posted: 04/24/2014 at 9:50am
I doubt I can piss on you from great height, but I can test your logic  You can engage all of your strength from the very start, if you are diligent in maintaining proper form. It all depends on the individual and their level of self control. This is like saying in baseball you should hit with a batting weight or really heavy bat for a few years, that way it makes you stronger and you can hit farther later. Using slower equipment holds you back in the short game. Letting you too easily make poor stokes on pushes, etc. and still maintain control. Faster equipment may allow you to make longer shots with poor technique, but slower equipment allows you to make shorter shots with poor technique. In the end it still comes down to an individuals effort in learning proper strokes for every part of the game. ------------- Mizutani Jun ST Tenergy 64 Tenergy 64
|
Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 04/24/2014 at 10:17am
|
my student has been using just a tuned globe 999 national black max and an RITC Focus 3 Snipe. He has been playing for more than 1 and a half year. This was his vid 4 months ago http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn1HWSVbilc&list=UUDyKL686Xk38HgQVHTJhyQw ------------- Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
Posted By: garwor
Date Posted: 04/24/2014 at 10:26am
|
I use currently blade from premade bat. Feeling when you beat owner of most expensive equipment? Invaluably :) ------------- http://stonitenis.rs/equipmentreviews" rel="nofollow - Equipment database Yinhe MC-2 FL fh: Xiom Vega pro bh: Xiom Vega pro Boycott Marcos Freitas for hidden services! |
Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 04/24/2014 at 10:37am
|
Almost all the kids i see learning the game at the club are using tenergy and that's under the direction of a former provincial coach assisted by usatt 2500 level coaches. I believe the idea is kids can learn and adapt with anything and since the annual cost of rubbers is so low compared to the cost of lessons it's best that they stick to the best from the start. It makes a lot of sense to me...the annual 8 sheets of tenergy (change every 3 months) represent less than 6 weeks of private coaching. ------------- /forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback |
Posted By: BRS
Date Posted: 04/24/2014 at 10:43am
|
Why should hobbies make sense? I'm 1500 and 45 years old and started playing two years ago. I'll never be very good, but I have a Joola tournament-used table and red floor in my garage to practice on. It cost a lot. Does it make sense? Of course it doesn't, but WTF should I care? It's my money and TT is my hobby. It makes me happy to go practice my crappy 1500-level game in a really nice TT garage.
Same thing with the rubber choice. I have max T05 on both sides of a TB ZLF. It's not too fast, but it does react very hard to spin. So I have to learn to read spin better, and it is real obvious when I make a mistake. I could get a less-spinny rubber or SP and maybe go up some points and not need to learn to read spin as much, but why should I do that? So I could save maybe $10 a month, who cares? |
Posted By: tt4me
Date Posted: 04/24/2014 at 11:38am
If it keeps you active it makes perfect sense. It is money well spent. ------------- Samsonov Alpha+H3 Neo+802 1.5mm, the Ball Whacker is revived!<br />Samsonov Alpha+H3 Neo+802-40 1.8mm my back up<br />BCX5+H3+802-1 1.8mm New but promising.<br /> |
Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 04/24/2014 at 12:03pm
I fully agree with that! ------------- 2010 Florida State Champion Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
Posted By: kurokami
Date Posted: 04/25/2014 at 2:46pm
|
i feel that if you're determined to develop optimally, you should use equipment to match your level and build up from there. if you've already spent money on tenergy etc. and your coach doesn't have anything to say about it, then i guess it's fine. in my experience though, everyone who went all-around -> fast -> tenergy developed much better attacking ability on avg.
------------- Viscaria H3N/T05 http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65345&KW=&title=feedback-kurokami |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 04/25/2014 at 6:37pm
This is a misleading argument. The issue is whether you can consistently make and control the strokes you play. Equipment can make you more consistent because it allows you to have more gears within a range of speed. Most people know how to swing harder and at the level where most people play, swinging harder doesn't add as much as being able to keep the ball in play. This is easier with slower equipment. Not snail speed slow, but slow enough to have some dwell. ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: roundrobin
Date Posted: 04/25/2014 at 8:24pm
I am not picking on you in particular , but this is a very common misconception among players who are stuck to low-to-intermediate levels for years if not decades. The inverted rubbers of their choice DO react strongly to incoming spin only if you are playing passively. For most pros the inverted rubbers allow them to overpower whatever spin is on the ball easily, and ADD a completely opposite spin to the ball at will. This is WHY they use it. Try to counter a full-power topspin drive with short or long pips then you'll know what I am talking about, because you simply can't. Most long-time 1300 to 1600 players never understood this point thus they will forever be using an equipment that they can't possibly do justice to its potential. In other words, their equipment of choice never properly suit their own ability but they keep poo-pooing short and long pips rubbers/players. There's so much more to understand the techniques needed to master other types of rubbers than simply "I don't have to learn to read spin as much". They don't even understand why they chose their equipment except to blindly follow the pros. The greatest thing about table tennis is the freedom to choose from a variety of equipment to suit their game, but too many newbies and old-timers are too biased to not explore beyond the obvious Tenergy type rubbers when they have no business playing with them. ------------- Current USATT Rating: 2181 Argentina National Team Member, 1985-1986. Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association. My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red |
Posted By: DDreamer
Date Posted: 04/25/2014 at 10:11pm
Tenergy may well be fine for your game but if you could use Tenergy to its full potential chances are you would be rated much higher than 1490. ------------- I know that faster equipment will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out |