Rate those players - USATT
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Topic: Rate those players - USATT
Posted By: Topspin_Tim
Subject: Rate those players - USATT
Date Posted: 04/23/2014 at 7:34pm
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From 0.00 - 8.00 Lets say. Red 1 0.00 - 3.40 Red 2 3.41 - 8.00 Blue 1 0.00 - 3.40 Blue 2 3.41 - 8.00 Thanks! |
Replies:
Posted By: ByeByeAbout
Date Posted: 04/23/2014 at 8:42pm
great upload tom...now *these* guys can play. can't help you on the rating from 0-8 since i don't what an 8 is...but fwiw...they're all around 2400 US...the big guy at the beginning is around 2300...and the lefty could be as high as 2600 US i love how these guys don't cry after any missed shots....just go back to business...big guy moves extremely well for being 100 lbs overweight... regards rick ------------- WORLDS BEST All AROUND ATHLETE 2007-2013  CURRENT USA TT LEVEL: 2300
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Topspin_Tim wrote:Posted By: berkeleydoctor
Date Posted: 04/23/2014 at 8:57pm
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i have to disagree completely.... but why even, trolls gonna troll the first two players are between 1700-2000 USATT the rest of the players are between 1900-2200 USATT not sure about this rating out of 8 thing, but if you assume 2300 is 8 and 1700 is 0 then you can extrapolate from there i guess?
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Posted By: ByeByeAbout
Date Posted: 04/23/2014 at 9:02pm
these guys are *much* better than the three guys pb posted who were all around 2100. those three guys (sorry chopper) would not stand any chance against any of the four guys just posted. equating giving an opinion about someones rating with "trolling" can be considered hyperbole, fwiw regards rick ------------- WORLDS BEST All AROUND ATHLETE 2007-2013 CURRENT USA TT LEVEL: 2300
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Posted By: blitzen
Date Posted: 04/23/2014 at 10:02pm
| Come on guys. Those numbers 0.00 - 8.00, etc. have nothing to do with ratings. Those are timings for the video. Those are the times when new play starts. These players look under 2000 to me, possibly 1800 - 2000. |
Posted By: ByeByeAbout
Date Posted: 04/23/2014 at 10:10pm
hehe..guess i missed that part. by any chance did you see the video that pb posted where all the guys are 2100'ish? look at that then watch the clip above....*worlds* apart...not even close...the 4 guys...three in particular are 200-300 pts higher than pb's vid. in fact...for anyone else saying that these guys are under 2000 feel free to show me just one single rally from pb's vid that comes even close to the best exchange between the latter guys.. the video doesn't tell lies. regards rick ------------- WORLDS BEST All AROUND ATHLETE 2007-2013 CURRENT USA TT LEVEL: 2300
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Posted By: blitzen
Date Posted: 04/23/2014 at 10:31pm
| I changed my range estimate up to 2000 (via edit). The guys in the other post didn't look like 2100. The guys here have some techniques that are 2000 level, but appear below 2000 in most other areas. It's hard to rate people that aren't developed to the same level in all areas (which is actually most people). But the 2100 players I am used to playing would be able to beat these people consistently. No way is anyone near 2600. That would make them a top player in the US. I encountered a 2650 player a couple of months ago, and they wouldn't be able to return his serves. |
Posted By: DDreamer
Date Posted: 04/23/2014 at 10:34pm
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2150ish, maybe a touch higher. The left-hander is perhaps 2200-2250 ish. They all have fairly dodgy technique (left-handler not quite as bad) but they understand spin and they receive serve ok. ------------- I know that faster equipment will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out |
Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 04/23/2014 at 10:34pm
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Look at this post from OOAK where a German guy made an excellent summary of German leagues and German ratings. He showed what some of those players USATT levels are.
http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17872" rel="nofollow - http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17872
Verbandsliga is German 1700ish MINIMUM for starters, which is USATT 2100ish MINIMUM. ------------- Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc |
Posted By: robjkc
Date Posted: 04/23/2014 at 10:36pm
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Without looking at what others posted and not seeing the final scores I would say the following would be their rating in the US: Red #1: 2000 Red #2: 2400 Blue #1: 2200 Blue #2: 2300 ------------- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29545&KW=&PID=356337#356337" rel="nofollow - my feedback |
Posted By: DDreamer
Date Posted: 04/23/2014 at 10:38pm
The guys in the other post actually did look like 2100. ------------- I know that faster equipment will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out |
Posted By: ByeByeAbout
Date Posted: 04/23/2014 at 10:43pm
i think this is very fair...even though i would add 100 pts to each of your estimations regards rick ------------- WORLDS BEST All AROUND ATHLETE 2007-2013 CURRENT USA TT LEVEL: 2300
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Posted By: ByeByeAbout
Date Posted: 04/23/2014 at 10:45pm
feel free to post any time in the clip you're talking about where anyone of those guys looked even close to 2100. this outta be good regards rick ------------- WORLDS BEST All AROUND ATHLETE 2007-2013 CURRENT USA TT LEVEL: 2300
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Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 04/23/2014 at 10:47pm
Perhaps blitzen is talking about their German TTR Rating. Some of those players COULD be 1800 or 1900ish German rating, which would be 2200+ USATT. ------------- Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc |
Posted By: DDreamer
Date Posted: 04/23/2014 at 10:58pm
Lol yes it ought to be good. If you look on page 1 of that thread you will see that I posted: "I only watched the first 2 guys. Maybe 2100ish." If you are not at that level then you don't know what to look for. ------------- I know that faster equipment will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out |
Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 04/23/2014 at 11:25pm
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Blue 1, 2200, Red 1 2150 Blue 2, 2200, Red 2 2200 I have a unfair advantage rating them as it says Verbandsliga and the level in Verbandsliga (at least those who have competed in the USA) ranges from 2050 to 2300 even though sometimes, stronger players who usually play in higher leagues play the lower league to help one of their teams. Verbandsliga averages generally in the 2100's with the better players exceeding 2200 and up to 2300. Those players all seem to be pretty good for Verbandsliga. This is also confirmed by a german friend of mine who used to play Verbandsliga in Germany before he moved to Florida. The European style generally looks stronger than the more common style in the US. Europeans tend to go back more into mid distance while the dominant style in the US is closer to the table. Closer to the table is more prone to mistakes but gives the opponent less time. The mid distance style will always look more consistent and "correct" which does not necessarily mean that it is stronger. Like I said, based on many germans who played tournaments in the US, it's safe to say that the general level of Verbandslige ranges from mid to high 2000's to about 2300 with a few exceptions on top and bottom. ------------- 2010 Florida State Champion Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
Posted By: larrytt
Date Posted: 04/23/2014 at 11:26pm
------------- Professional Table Tennis Coach & Writer Member, USATT Hall of Fame USATT National & ITTF Certified Coach Former Chair, USATT Coaching Committee www.TableTennisCoaching.com www.MDTTC.com |
Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 04/23/2014 at 11:32pm
Being a born European and having played league in Vienna/Austria for 3 years, I can tell you that it is a lot about perception. The European style LOOKS stronger as they make less unforced errors but that's due to them playing mid distance and not close to the table.. My opponent in this game is a Czech player who used to play at a very high league in the Czech Republic before he came to the US and he is a solid 2300 level player. None of the players in the video would beat him.. He is also 3 times Florida State Champion (and current state champion).. WOW - I was really fat back then.. ------------- 2010 Florida State Champion Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 04/23/2014 at 11:35pm
1800 to 2000 is LOW Landesliga or even strong Bezirksliga level but if they would be some of the worst players in Verbandsliga if that was the case.. ------------- 2010 Florida State Champion Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
Posted By: robjkc
Date Posted: 04/23/2014 at 11:49pm
I like watching their matches for this reason. I used to watch a lot of 2nd level German league matches on a German website but I can't remember the web address any longer. If anyone knows it I'd like to watch some more. The 2nd level players looked like they could be most any US player. ------------- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29545&KW=&PID=356337#356337" rel="nofollow - my feedback |
Posted By: ByeByeAbout
Date Posted: 04/24/2014 at 12:04am
it would be a coin toss between him and myself. regards rick ------------- WORLDS BEST All AROUND ATHLETE 2007-2013 CURRENT USA TT LEVEL: 2300
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Posted By: LUCKYLOOP
Date Posted: 04/24/2014 at 12:09am
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Pushblocker wrote Being a born European and having played league in Vienna/Austria for 3 years, I can tell you that it is a lot about perception. The European style LOOKS stronger as they make less unforced errors but that's due to them playing mid distance and not close to the table.. My opponent in this game is a Czech player who used to play at a very high league in the Czech Republic before he came to the US and he is a solid 2300 level player. None of the players in the video would beat him.. He is also 3 times Florida State Champion (and current state champion).. WOW - I was really fat back then.. LUCKYLOOP wrote That was a good match .... PB covers his 4H corner with that block a lot better than most players anticipate ------------- Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX |
Posted By: larrytt
Date Posted: 04/24/2014 at 12:14am
No. Richard Ciz is a 2300 player. You (Rick) claimed to be 2200 back when we had our challenge matches, but turned out to be 1500. I'm told by a member of your club that you might have improved to 1600. Stop misleading people about your playing level. There's nothing wrong with being 1600. -Larry Hodges
------------- Professional Table Tennis Coach & Writer Member, USATT Hall of Fame USATT National & ITTF Certified Coach Former Chair, USATT Coaching Committee www.TableTennisCoaching.com www.MDTTC.com |
Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 04/24/2014 at 12:23am
He kicked my butt in game 1 when I realized what was happening.. He was anticipating perfectly where I would put the ball and could go for the kill. All that I did was to try to be more unpredictable and make him move and force him to open up with spin instead of going for the kill shot. The moment I got him to open up instead of finishing the point, I took over control of the match. Strategically, this was one of my best matches ever.. ------------- 2010 Florida State Champion Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 04/24/2014 at 12:27am
------------- /forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback |
Posted By: ByeByeAbout
Date Posted: 04/24/2014 at 12:29am
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top spin tim post some more of these if you get the opportunity. thanks regards rick ------------- WORLDS BEST All AROUND ATHLETE 2007-2013 CURRENT USA TT LEVEL: 2300
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Posted By: ByeByeAbout
Date Posted: 04/24/2014 at 12:37am
the point spread after game one if anyone was betting on this match would have been 40-1. regards rick ------------- WORLDS BEST All AROUND ATHLETE 2007-2013 CURRENT USA TT LEVEL: 2300
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Posted By: beeray1
Date Posted: 04/24/2014 at 1:31am
Shows how little I know about Table Tennis lol. I certainly wouldn't consider them in the realm of an 1800 player. 2000 maximum seems pretty crazy after watching the first two guys. Unless we're talking about different guys lol. But that's why I'm not a coach  I've never seen players under 2000 have rallies that high of quality, including players that practice together and know each others games. Edit: Maybe I should have watched more than the first minute and 30 seconds.  The quality of the match was noticeably higher in the beginning. |
Posted By: DDreamer
Date Posted: 04/24/2014 at 1:48am
------------- I know that faster equipment will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out |
Posted By: beeray1
Date Posted: 04/24/2014 at 1:54am
lol thanks for trying to reassure me. I start to think I know what I'm talking about, and somebody credible says something that makes me feel dumb. 
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Posted By: benfb
Date Posted: 04/24/2014 at 2:40am
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I realize this is getting off-topic, but I found the PB-Ciz video more interesting than the original video of German players. What struck me was that for all his power, Ciz didn't play very smart. PB played a much more strategic match and that's how he won. Well, it looks like it was just a fun match, so perhaps Ciz will put more thought into it the next time they meet in a tournament. |
Posted By: ghostzen
Date Posted: 04/24/2014 at 3:46am
Sorry for the off-topic I think Ciz thought it would be very easy and played the serve and kill plan "A game" and after the first game where PB looked canon fodder he stopped making the high risk shots on the table had a bit of a ... what to do now moment? Panic! didn't think I would need a "Plan B". After that the match changed and the tighter the match got the more tighter Ciz got and the more PB was up for it.
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Posted By: ghostzen
Date Posted: 04/24/2014 at 4:15am
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Good Video and some really good rallies cheers for posting. Nice to see some matches which are from different leagues. |
Posted By: bns7117
Date Posted: 04/24/2014 at 4:15am
very nice and consistent BH blocking PB, a very good player like him was really struggling with your blocking after game 1, man, what a match. HE was so pissed on not being able to return those seemingly simple blockings, I swear this is one of the most frustrating feelings when you just can't use more than 40% of the skills you have acquired thru all your trainings and learnings. I woulda smashed my bat if I was playing with your blocking returns... XD what was the red rubber you were using? looks like a very deceptive pip with huge spin-reverse blocking. I would like to try it too. |
Posted By: Topspin_Tim
Date Posted: 04/24/2014 at 5:00am
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If I post the German TTR for those guys, some of you will really be surprised. The first two players are normally really good blockers, thats why the game looks not as good as the second. These players are playing in the 1. "paarkreuz".
Red Nr. 1: 1861 TTR Blue Nr. 1: 1975 TTR The lefty and his opponent are playing in the 2. "paarkreuz". Red Nr. 2: 1775 TTR Blue Nr. 2: 1826 TTR Do you want more German League Videos to guess on? |
Posted By: gs4000
Date Posted: 04/24/2014 at 5:10am
Very interesting and deceiving with how their games look on video. I think most of us place way too much emphasis on how pretty the technique of the player is. |
Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 04/24/2014 at 6:57am
The german rating really is not compareable with the US Rating. My understanding is that approx. 1700 german rating is about 2000 US Rating. 1975 german rating is easily 2275 US rating. If you add about 300 - 400 points to the german rating, it is approx. the US Rating.. This is a comparison as of 2011 TTR vs. USATT Ratings Aleksandar Karakasevic 2500 | 2850 Thomas Keinath 2420 | 2800 Lucian Blaszczyk 2500 | 2800 Joerg Rosskopf 2400 | 2730 Patrick Baum 2450 | 2730 Steffen Mengel 2350 | 2720 Stefan Feth 2275 | 2700 Andreas Ball 2130 | 2675 Tanja Hain-Hofman 2100 | 2500 Franz-Josef Huermann 1870 | 2230 Sebastian Lenzen 2050 | 2230 Thorsten Esch 1700 | 2140 Andreas Hain 1800 | 2130 Fabian Schulenburg 1800 | 2120 Markus Kirsten 1650 | 2100 Volker Schoeppe 1550 | 2070 Michael Backes 1600 | 1900 Using that comparison the approx. rating of the players would be: (and I'm only using the lower end of 300 points difference as in real life, it often varies over 400 points.. Red Nr. 1: 1861 TTR 2161+ USATT Blue Nr. 1: 1975 TTR 2275+ USATT The lefty and his opponent are playing in the 2. "paarkreuz". Red Nr. 2: 1775 TTR 2075+ USATT Blue Nr. 2: 1826 TTR 2126+ USATT ------------- 2010 Florida State Champion Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 04/24/2014 at 7:35am
I realized that he was very effective when he was in place for his shot but when I made him move, his unforced errors would go up when trying to kill the ball so he eventually started playing more conservative, opening up instead of killing the ball. That allows me to take control of the game as I need that spinny open up shot so that I can get underspin, forcing him to push. Once he starts giving me that first push, I can use the angles and my pressure push (aka druckschlupf in german) to control the table and force him into mistakes. ------------- 2010 Florida State Champion Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 04/24/2014 at 7:40am
I agree with that assessment. It looked like he completely destroyed me there but after I analyzed what was happening, it became clear to me what I did wrong. Richard is a very strong player and he scouts his opponents and he saw how I placed the ball against previous opponents and he had a game plan based on the usual placement of my serves and returns in the first game and I gave him exactly what he was expecting. I was predictable and that's why he completely destroyed me. He knew what spin was on the ball and where I would put them. I started mixing up placement, depth and also watched where he was going and put the ball often where he didn't expect it which made him open up instead of killing the ball. That's all I needed to get back into the game. My game depends on the opponents open up shot. That's the one that I block to force that first push and when the opponent starts his first push, I usually take over control of the point. ------------- 2010 Florida State Champion Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
Posted By: Topspin_Tim
Date Posted: 04/24/2014 at 8:29am
Here are more comparisons between USATT and German TTR name | TTR | USATT Timothy Wang 2241 | 2606 --> 365 Chance Friend 2061 | 2453 --> 392 Barney Reed 2048 | 2524 --> 476 Homayoun Kamkar-Parsi 1973 | 2603 --> 630 (?!) Stephen Clyde 1810 | 2263 --> 453 Johannes Böhme 1770 | 2232 --> 462 average of 463 These are the best, which i have found. All these Players played many tournaments on both sides. |
Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 04/24/2014 at 8:32am
------------- 2010 Florida State Champion Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
Posted By: Topspin_Tim
Date Posted: 04/24/2014 at 8:40am
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Yeah, it´s really hard to tell...because the TTR and the USATT himself fluctuates much... Here is another video. What do you think about their rating? You can guess in both, TTR and USATT. |
Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 04/24/2014 at 9:21am
------------- 2010 Florida State Champion Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |