Never Trust any National Version DHS Hurricane 3
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Topic: Never Trust any National Version DHS Hurricane 3
Posted By: Timo Hu
Subject: Never Trust any National Version DHS Hurricane 3
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 1:43pm
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These years, so many players are curious about the National Version DHS Hurricane 3 sales on some website, which is super expensive like $100 a piece. Here, I think I need to clarify the truth so that players will not be cheated. First, please never trust any National Version Hurricane sales on any website. Actually, there almost has no difference with ordinary Hurricane 3. Just the psychological effect that made people feel better in the national version Hurricane, but there really no difference. One of my uncle deals with the logistic work for Chinese National PingPong team. He told me the Hurricane that National Team use is specially designed, which is illegal to be sold externally. The national team has very strict policy to check the rubber on each day, and each rubber is assigned with a series number. After a National based Hurricane has been exhausted by players, players must turn this rubber back, and Chinese National Association will check for these returned rubbers one by one to make sure the rubbers they recycled back are the same as the rubbers they gave out to national team players. The genuine National Version Hurricane rubbers use the sponge from the Butterfly Tenergy series spring sponge (The sponge was Butterfly Bryce version sponge, but has been changed since speed glue became illegal since late 2008). The rubber they use is a high quality rubber, which is also different from the ordinary version of Hurricane, not so sticky like ordinary version. I saw some so called National version Hurricane sale on some website, which is super expensive like $100 a piece, but I don't think that is really what Chinese National team use. It is because the pictures these website provide are not the sample pictures that my uncle showed to me before. Hurricane fanatics please to be rational. It's not worthwhile to pay more than $100 to buy a counterfeit National Version Hurricane. ------------- Timo Boll ZLF FL Tenergy 05 Tenergy 05 |
Replies:
Posted By: emihet
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 2:59pm
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agree, they are not national version rubbers, but they are a bit higher quality then commercial H3 and they are lighter in weight...but they are not the rubbers that the chinese national team uses...i think everybody know this by now. ------------- Viscaria, Ma Long 5, Old Clippers, BTY Ovtcharov and Various Custom blades |
Posted By: Timo Hu
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 3:17pm
The quality is a little bit better than the commercial version, but it does not worth the price on sale. ------------- Timo Boll ZLF FL Tenergy 05 Tenergy 05 |
emihet wrote:Posted By: qualizon
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 3:18pm
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1）what do the sample pictures from uncle look like? mind to share it here? 2) next time please don't post your discussion thread in the sales forum unless you are really selling/buying 3) are you saying the china national team order sponge from butterfly and combine them with dhs rubber sheet? ------------- N656 TG3 Nat Blue/H360 http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=66012&PID=793739" rel="nofollow - Feedback http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69193&PID=839189" rel="nofollow - For Sale |
Posted By: Lestat
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 3:21pm
| So what's the actual purpose for these higher quality 4 corner rubbers we call national? There's no doubt that they are factory made. |
Posted By: Timo Hu
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 3:34pm
Yes. I hope to attach the picture here. Unfortunately, my uncle refuses to send me with the pictures directly cause he might be fired by Chinese National Table Tennis Association if he does that. He has some pictures in his cellphone that I cannot get. For the genuine national version DHS rubber that national team members use, these rubber sheets are combination between the Butterfly sponge and Chinese rubber. Chinese National Team always like to do combination to achieve their best feeling. Just like Wang Hao, his back hand uses Sriver Rubber, but the sponge is Bryce Sponge. In forehand, he uses DHS national Skyline 3 with Tenergy series spring sponge. ------------- Timo Boll ZLF FL Tenergy 05 Tenergy 05 |
Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 3:35pm
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I heard many times that people can get lucky and buy a VERY VERY VERY good sheet of cheap commercial hurricane. the difference with so called "National hurricane" is that you get lucky every time you pick a sheet of it  ; but commercial or national...they are all the same --> is this correct?------------- /forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback |
Posted By: Timo Hu
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 3:39pm
If you can buy it online, it is definitely not the rubber that Chinese national team players use cause the one they use is combination between Chinese rubber and Butterfly Tenergy Series Spring Sponge. As you can see, the Spring Sponge and Commerical DHS Hurricane Sponge looks so different. No matter how lucky we are, I don't think we can get a national version Hurricane 3 from purchasing commercial version Hurricane 3. ------------- Timo Boll ZLF FL Tenergy 05 Tenergy 05 |
Posted By: smackman
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 3:54pm
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please send some blue sponge tenergy spring sponge to me cheers ------------- Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website |
Posted By: simon_xuan
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 3:54pm
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T series rubbers are pored, while Bryce rubbers are high density version. We can see on TV a lot of these national H3 / TG3 are blue colored. Are you suggesting BTY specially supplied blue colored sponge for Chinese team? It doesn't seem to make commercial sense. The most heard of theory is the best cut of the most evenly produced sponge turns into national version, etc. Just curious. ------------- RPB Rocks! BTY Innerforce ZLC Cpen | DHS H3N Blue Sponge | Victas V>15 Extra Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36695 |
Posted By: Timo Hu
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 4:09pm
Actually the so called the most evenly produced sponge turns into national version is not real. All Chinese National team members receive specific designed combination for themselves. Majority of them use Tenergy series Spring sponge and Chinese based rubber just like Jike Zhange and Ma Long. National team make special order from Butterfly for sponge. Some blue sponge just the color that Butterfly added for them to segregate these sponge from Tenergy, but the intrinsic is the same. Cause my uncle is currently working with the logistic procedure for Chinese national table tennis association, he knows it. ------------- Timo Boll ZLF FL Tenergy 05 Tenergy 05 |
Posted By: seguso
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 4:28pm
Is there some evidence for this claim? ------------- pg5x - mxd fh & bh - https://youtu.be/dBMqj0CN7XU" rel="nofollow - 2015 video |
Posted By: GeneralSpecific
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 4:30pm
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Edit: Never mind, didn't see your reply above. ------------- Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
Posted By: bbkon
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 4:41pm
actually i know several players who played at several wttc and played few shots with ma long/xx.zjk and said the rubbers from CNT players are not so bouncy, how come this could be true if they have tenergy sponge
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Posted By: simon_xuan
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 4:48pm
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This web site collects some Chinese players' paddles. But of course the picture doesn't have the resolution to see the pore of the sponge. http://www.fotop.net/rxng/cntt?page=2 Did anyone on the forum check Hao Shui's sponge when he came to US to play last year? The most curious question I personally have is the notion Chinese national rubber uses non-pored Yun Hai #22 or 20 sponge. National team members use Dian Chi oil to tune these sponges, while the T series sponge reacts better with Falco oil. Of course I never tried to tune a tenergy sponge with Dian Chi to see if it curl as well. ------------- RPB Rocks! BTY Innerforce ZLC Cpen | DHS H3N Blue Sponge | Victas V>15 Extra Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36695 |
Posted By: seguso
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 4:50pm
that could be explained by the tacky topsheet, I suppose. what about the ripples from boosting that sometimes show on their topsheets? Is this compatible with having the tenergy sponge? ------------- pg5x - mxd fh & bh - https://youtu.be/dBMqj0CN7XU" rel="nofollow - 2015 video |
Posted By: simon_xuan
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 4:54pm
I don't remember when T series came into the market. This sheet is a screen shot from a web site, dated on 2005. Appears non-pored. ------------- RPB Rocks! BTY Innerforce ZLC Cpen | DHS H3N Blue Sponge | Victas V>15 Extra Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36695 |
Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 5:07pm
not sure about buying the tenergy story; actually I do not right now; it would be so known by now; you can't keep those kind of news from leaking; ok it did...here...but if it was true it would have done so long ago and in a much bigger manner. Some might say I underestimate our mytt sources and we ARE the news makers :) If it is true it would be huge. My question is: what is Butterfly's interest in giving CNT stuff they won't give to other people? it seems there is much more to loose than to win for all parties here; and if we can accuse BTY for doing many wrong things, we can't -for sure- accuse them for being stupid. ------------- /forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback |
Posted By: vvk1
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 5:25pm
| Smells like a competitor's attempt to discredit DHS. |
Posted By: Roger Stillabower
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 5:40pm
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I have seen a H3 with red High Tension sponge red top sheet listed on a site that is suppose to be made for XX back hand. But it's not listed as a Tenergy sponge. This could be what he is referring to. ------------- Shifter |
Posted By: aroonkl
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 5:43pm
| Big BS for Tenergy sponge in National H3. Chinese style loops like harder sponge. |
Posted By: qualizon
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 5:48pm
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If the National rubber is actually a combination of butterfly sponge, then it would have leaked from the major Chinese table tennis forum first before it reaches here at mytt. ------------- N656 TG3 Nat Blue/H360 http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=66012&PID=793739" rel="nofollow - Feedback http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69193&PID=839189" rel="nofollow - For Sale |
Posted By: rick_ys_ho
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 6:06pm
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I never used National H3, because I never bother to spend more than $40 to buy a H3 or any other rubber. Personally I think H3 is H3, no matter it is national, provincial and commercial. The differences are small. I don't think someone who can't play commercial H3 can play provincial or national version well. |
Posted By: Timo Hu
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 7:23pm
Actually if you trained professional table tennis in China at around 2013 to 2014, you should know something about it. It has already leaked out, just you don't know. ------------- Timo Boll ZLF FL Tenergy 05 Tenergy 05 |
Posted By: Timo Hu
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 7:25pm
No, this is too early. National team use Terergy series spong after 2009, not so early in 2005. ------------- Timo Boll ZLF FL Tenergy 05 Tenergy 05 |
Posted By: Timo Hu
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 7:35pm
If you work for an organization and order large quantity of Tenergy sponge from Butterfly, they will sell them to you. Butterfly just not sell Tenergy Sponge directly to individuals who wanna order cause the quantity individuals need is too small. There is no reason to say Butterfly is stupid cause they are doing their business with a country, which is more profitable than just sell one to two sheet of Tenergy to individuals. That is economic of scale. ------------- Timo Boll ZLF FL Tenergy 05 Tenergy 05 |
Posted By: glanden.zheng
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 7:36pm
Sorry to be seeming to call you out, but I'm going to break down everything bit by bit to show you why you're wrong.
Not true. There is a reason why there are different number of edges on the rubbers, and why there are consistent reviews by many users of Hurricane here on MyTT that do explicitly state the difference between the versions, or at least the inconsistency of commercial Hurricane rubbers. I do not believe CNT would like to use inconsistent rubbers.
I used to hear of this process, but that is also absolute bull. If this is true, then I have no idea why one of my friends from Australian National team, who is friends with Fan Zhendong, just received a blue sponge Hurricane and Tenergy 05 from Fan Zhendong at the WTTTC that has just ended, with FZD just ripping off the rubbers from his blade and giving it to my friend? If your claim is true, surely FZD won't be doing this? I also know of another player in our country who also received new rubbers from Zhang Jike and Xu Xin during the London Olympics.
Absolutely crazy to assume this. I'm not at home right now but there are pictures of the FZD rubbers my friend has posted on Facebook, with the sponge clearly up to show that they are NOT pored whatsoever. I'm very interested some of your pictures that your uncle gave you. I will post the picture of the FZD sponge when I get home. I've also seen the personal XX and ZJK rubbers in person, and the sponge is definitely not pored sponge. Chinese rubbers are characterised partly from their hard sponge as much as their sticky topsheet. Also, I've seen provincial players playing with the classic Hurricane sponge and topsheet. So you're saying that once they go onto the national team, they change their forehand rubber to something that is completely different from what they have been using for 10+ years, probably more than 30,000 hours of the same rubber on the forehand?
I will agree with you that the prices may not justify the quality of the rubber, but I don't think you're informed enough to make the claim that they are not CNT used, because I'm nearly 100% they are CNT provided. It's partly the fact that it's illegal for them to sell that the prices are so high, because of the "rarity". I will post pictures of the rubbers to my knowledge once I'm home. Then it will be probably be apparent to everyone here that the rubbers on the sites are probably legit as the laser-prints on the sponge are in the exact same format. What will give my pictures more credit is that the rubbers have already been cut; they have definitely been used by FZD during the WTTTC this year. I'm afraid my pictures will most likely be blowing your claim wide open. Edit: I realised you apparently can not post pictures of the Hurricanes. However I also realised you may be referring to the Hurricane 3's with the #60, #50, #18, etc. sponges which COULD possibly be from Butterfly (even though they are DHS sponges
 ), so I can give you credit for that. But in terms of blue sponge? Absolute garbage.------------- Butterfly Viscaria FL FH: Hurricane 3 Prov BH: Tenergy 05 |
Posted By: glanden.zheng
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 7:44pm
Link us please? ------------- Butterfly Viscaria FL FH: Hurricane 3 Prov BH: Tenergy 05 |
Posted By: Timo Hu
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 8:07pm
Go Shanghai to receive professional training. You will know everything. Argue with me here means nothing. ------------- Timo Boll ZLF FL Tenergy 05 Tenergy 05 |
Posted By: kurokami
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 8:51pm
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timo hu's info is right in general, though not quite accurate on some details. idk if it's bc your uncle is not entirely sure or you interpreted it wrong. there are better quality nationals being sold that aren't the ones used by CNT (the "B grade" i referred to previously that are sold in ltd. qty to foreign countries for their pro players). the 1st string hurricane sponges do come from butterfly; that much has been repeated among players i've asked. whether they produce or simply QC has been commented with variation. the consensus though appears to be that the sponges are produced in Germany. real nationals are very distinctive from commercial hurricanes after boosting in that they resemble butterfly-type rubbers at a glance whereas commercial always has the dull, flat look and feel. for the older versions, there wasn't that much difference between the "classic sponges" so some ppl figured they're the same w/ a placebo effect. the neo national is distinctly superior though. some ppl claim boosting commercial is the same, but not by a far cry. even provincial neo is a big step up. these differences can mostly only be detected after boosting since the difference is largely in the sponge. while rare and not allowed to be sold, many players do give them out w/o penalty. it's just that retailers are not to sell them. they do still find their way from players to other players, family, friends as gifts, private sale, and trades. ------------- Viscaria H3N/T05 http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65345&KW=&title=feedback-kurokami |
Posted By: Timo Hu
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 9:03pm
Since late 2008 when speed glue became illegal, every player has changed sponge. I don't know where you get the information that they use the same categories of sponge for 10+ years. National Hurricane changed its Bryce version sponge at around 2009 because Bryce sponge is highly reply on speed glue. BTW, I don't think your friend's posted national Hurricane rubber is genuine, so there's no meaning to do comparison here. ------------- Timo Boll ZLF FL Tenergy 05 Tenergy 05 |
Posted By: glanden.zheng
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 9:17pm
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Are you serious? He got it straight from Fan Zhendong, and you're saying that's not genuine? And it's by pure logic that professional players would be using the same hard style Chinese sponge for however long they've played table tennis for in China, since Hurricane is very standard in China for professional teams. The Tenergy sponge with the Hurricane topsheet would be a completely different rubber altogether, like the H3-50, which many has said LACKS power even with booster, which would be contrary to what any CNT member would want. It seems very much like you don't play table tennis very much if at all, or else you would not be making this claim. Edit: Scroll down to see Ma Lin's rubber ripped off from his blade. You can tell that there's water glue so that is NOT before speed glue era. Does the sponge look porous at all? http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=34187&PN=43" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=34187&PN=43
------------- Butterfly Viscaria FL FH: Hurricane 3 Prov BH: Tenergy 05 |
Posted By: Timo Hu
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 9:50pm
Are you serious? Any people who trained a little bit table tennis know that all of the national players changed sponge after 2008. What I can say is you are completely a green hand in table tennis and may just start to play table tennis this year. That's why you have no idea about what's going on about table tennis in past few years. In addition, I also specified clearly that the top rubber sheet in genuine National Hurricane is very different from commercial Hurricane as well, and it won't feel unbalanced when combining with TG-05 sponge together. Please do not use the concept in commercial Hurricane to guess what's going on in National Hurricane. BTW, it is illegal for Chinese national team members to give their rubbers to external person. All of their used rubber sheet are required to be returned. If your friend really get a rubber from Fan Zhengdong, then the one he received is definitely not a genuine national version Hurricane. Fan Zhengdong will recieve penalty from Chinese National team if he gives national version rubber to external players.
------------- Timo Boll ZLF FL Tenergy 05 Tenergy 05 |
Posted By: JacekGM
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 11:35pm
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Sorry guys, I currently play Hurricane 3 Neo on FH. How does this discussion affects me? What should I learn from it? ------------- (1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH. |
Posted By: glanden.zheng
Date Posted: 05/11/2014 at 11:52pm
It's not on one count that the CNT had given rubbers out, I've heard plenty more stories of people receiving rubbers from the CNT. So you're saying that by ripping the rubber off Fan Zhendong's OWN bat, FZD himself is using a fake rubber? And actually no, it doesn't seem like "any people who trained a little bit table tennis" know that the national players have changed sponges after 2008, at least not to TENERGY sponges, because there clearly is a lot of sarcasm and disbelief loaded into the comments on this thread by users who's played for 20, maybe 30+ years; because what you're suggesting is completely bizarre. Seriously, changing to Tenergy sponges? You are also clearly ignoring the picture of the sponge by Ma Lin that I've linked you; that sponge is not porous whatsoever, just like the sponge my friend's received from FZD. It's just too, too hard to believe.
------------- Butterfly Viscaria FL FH: Hurricane 3 Prov BH: Tenergy 05 |
Posted By: DistantStar
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 12:13am
If you like it (doubt it tho), nothing :) But do know that commercial DHS rubber is used by ZERO professional players. IMO they suck d!ck ------------- Nittaku Acoustic Xiom Sigma Euro 2.0 Tibhar Genius Sound 2.0 |
Posted By: rick_ys_ho
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 12:52am
Not much. First, don't expect provincial version would be dramatically better than the regular H3 Neo. Second, don't buy any national versions, because 1. To me they are too pricy, not really worth the money. 2. In OP's theory, all of them are fake. So if you like your H3 Neo, then keep using it. If you hate it, don't expect you will like more expensive versions which are available to you. |
Posted By: Timo Hu
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 1:08am
Ok. Fang Zhengdong give your friend commercial version of Hurricane does not mean himself play commercial version Hurricane in formal match. In addition, the information I disclose here is what I know about the policy in Chinese National team. I'm not forbid you to buy those so called "National Version Hurricane online". If you really wanna spend $80 or $100 to buy these so called "National Version Hurricane", just go ahead. That's your freedom, and I cannot stop you from purchasing. ------------- Timo Boll ZLF FL Tenergy 05 Tenergy 05 |
Posted By: glanden.zheng
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 1:14am
I really don't know how one's head can be so thick. ------------- Butterfly Viscaria FL FH: Hurricane 3 Prov BH: Tenergy 05 |
Posted By: Timo Hu
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 1:31am
Ok, go ahead. Buy those so called "national Hurricane" if you really support them. ------------- Timo Boll ZLF FL Tenergy 05 Tenergy 05 |
Posted By: mrdoodzki
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 1:54am
show pictures or it's not true  ------------- Blade -- Stiga Clipper FH -- DHS Hurricane 3 BH -- Japtec Experience HAPPINESS is....sometimes no words, just the sound of a ball |
Posted By: aroonkl
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 2:21am
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Don't want to get into this but really could not stand the thick head coming from a fantasy world. This is your quote ===If you work for an organization and order large quantity of Tenergy sponge from Butterfly, they will sell them to you. Butterfly just not sell Tenergy Sponge directly to individuals who wanna order cause the quantity individuals need is too small. There is no reason to say Butterfly is stupid cause they are doing their business with a country, which is more profitable than just sell one to two sheet of Tenergy to individuals. That is economic of scale.=== Do you know how much Tenergy will sell more if all CNTs use Tenergy? Do you really think Buttefly cares about making money from 1000 sponges/year to CNT team. What sale does it loose, as in the world stage CNTs are using H3 on FH to beat Tenergy players! May be loosing (or not gaining ) sale 100,000 sheets/year? It might be only your smart company who sell your Best Weapon for enemy to use against you.  You tried to quote as business-wise "order large quantity" "economic of scale". But commonsense is childish.
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Posted By: aroonkl
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 2:38am
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There were times when CNT players peeled rubbers out and gave to the others as gift. So you meant they played commercials in their critical tournaments? I remembered read one with pictures here as Ma Lin did it. There was also pictures in mytt here shew a bucket that packed with discard rubbers from some major world tournament. It was meant to recycle something. In the pics, there were many H3 blue sponges disposed. ====BTW, it is illegal for Chinese national team members to give their rubbers to external person. All of their used rubber sheet are required to be returned. If your friend really get a rubber from Fan Zhengdong, then the one he received is definitely not a genuine national version Hurricane. Fan Zhengdong will recieve penalty from Chinese National team if he gives national version rubber to external players.====
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Posted By: vutiendat1337
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 3:22am
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no offense but OP sounds like he's full of it. A very close friend of mine once played with a h3neo national used by Shang Kun. that he got from his reliable source. On that note, he said it was hard as bricks and damn too difficult to play with. I saw it with my own eyes and the sponge looked nothing like tenergy porous sponge. The topsheet was not glossy at all. My friend is a 2350 player and has been around the US table tennis since he was a kid. I will trust him over some random Timo Hu with BS stories anytime.
I also know a former Chinese Superleague player, though in lower divisions. I just saw him 2 weeks ago at a tournament, which he won. I saw his paddle, obviously hurricane with typical orange sponge. I didn't ask if it's provincial or national but it was nothing like tenergy sponge.
------------- bty petr korbel st fh: donic bluefire red bh: dawei iqul black USATT:1811 http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40320&title=feedbackvutiendat1337" rel="nofollow - Feedback me |
Posted By: mrdoodzki
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 3:32am
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just a thought....the op is trying to make a statement without any solid evidence to show us here in the forum. if he cant show any evidence to back up his claim, maybe he shouldn't have posted his claim at all. ------------- Blade -- Stiga Clipper FH -- DHS Hurricane 3 BH -- Japtec Experience HAPPINESS is....sometimes no words, just the sound of a ball |
Posted By: kprimorac
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 5:44am
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"The genuine National Version Hurricane rubbers use the sponge from the Butterfly Tenergy series spring sponge (The sponge was Butterfly Bryce version sponge, but has been changed since speed glue became illegal since late 2008). The rubber they use is a high quality rubber, which is also different from the ordinary version of Hurricane, not so sticky like ordinary version" this statement is not true, during the World Championship Paris last year, there was a french guy who helped CNT for logistic, at the end of the tournament, he received some rubbers from ZJK as gift for his supports, he put on sale in this post in french forum : http://www.tennis-de-table.com/forums/sujet-57186-2.html on the page 2, you can find the pics that I copied the link below, it has nothing to do with BTY sponge : Mardi 21 Mai 2013 16:12 http://hpics.li/7e6dce5 http://hpics.li/75902f0 http://hpics.li/3694745 http://hpics.li/90a8d79 personnally, I played with H3 commercial version for 1 year before buying from Singody and prott NAT NEO Untuned version, I can confirm that it has better quality, more spin, more speed without boosting Just my 2 cents. |
Posted By: channyboi
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 6:57am
| Good read, was funny, LOL. |
Posted By: glanden.zheng
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 7:30am
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Thanks to all. Unless you can post pictures, "Timo Hu", please stop embarrassing yourself ------------- Butterfly Viscaria FL FH: Hurricane 3 Prov BH: Tenergy 05 |
Posted By: glanden.zheng
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 7:40am
Yes; I probably will. Meanwhile you can wishfully dream of Hurricane rubbers with blue Tenergy sponges that never existed. Edit: FZD Hurricane sponge: http://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-9/10154143_10152414965923735_4141131375914824895_n.jpg" rel="nofollow - https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-9/10154143_10152414965923735_4141131375914824895_n.jpg
------------- Butterfly Viscaria FL FH: Hurricane 3 Prov BH: Tenergy 05 |
Posted By: Timo Hu
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 9:43am
Ok, I will post pictures after I get them from my uncle's cellphone in August after I meet with him. BTW, there's no need to get some of your friends to help you leave your predetermined comments here. Even you do tricky like this, there's no way to change the truth that current on sale National Hurricane is counterfeit. ------------- Timo Boll ZLF FL Tenergy 05 Tenergy 05 |
Posted By: DistantStar
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 10:55am
Hummm, without knowing too much fact about the Original topic myself, this particular argument is flawed though. Look no further than Samsung supplying apple with flash memory, or LG supplying apple with LCD screens for example of this kind of relationship. Butterfly can charge as much as T05 for each sponge. Since Nat rubbers aren't a commercial product, cost and commercial viability isn't a concern for DHS. Again, I'm not saying Timo Hu is right. I'm saying it's POSSIBLE that he is right, as opposed to your logic ------------- Nittaku Acoustic Xiom Sigma Euro 2.0 Tibhar Genius Sound 2.0 |
Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 11:58am
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I don't believe that every national team player uses the same type of rubber, no matter how good it is. That just isn't consistent with my experiences with individuals. I think the top players get to tinker and choose whatever they want. ------------- Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 11:59am
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Also, why would they be using a pretuned tenergy sponge with bottom sealed? I think they have their own ways of boosting. Who attaches the h3 tops, dhs or butterfly? Wouldn't that make it illegal, since boosting has to be done by the factory.
So much of this just doesn't add up. ------------- Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
Posted By: Timo Hu
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 12:46pm
Actually it is very common in CNT to select their preferred rubber in top and then use another brand of sponge in the bottom. It is not illegal to do boosting independently from factory. Just like Wang Hao, his backhand use sriver's rubber in the top but Bryce sponge in the bottom. That's all specially designed for them.
------------- Timo Boll ZLF FL Tenergy 05 Tenergy 05 |
Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 1:03pm
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Yes, but the original post read to me like EVERY national team h3 uses the same tenergy sponge.
I can see them using it if it's dry, but why would they want the factory tune in there if they have their own tune? I can see more a situation where they would buy a block of the sponge dry then cut it to taste and tune it to taste. In which case they're buying select tops from dhs and then a block of sponge from bfly...probably more than 1 type. ------------- Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 1:07pm
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Timo Hu stated: "Ok, I will post pictures after I get them from my uncle's cellphone in August after I meet with him." ======================= Just ask him to email you the pictures. You don't have to wait until August. ------------- skip3119 |
Posted By: ZingyDNA
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 1:08pm
It is not? Are you sure? ITTF specifically forbids any physical or chemical treatment outside of factory. Whether they can enforce it or not is a completely different issue
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Posted By: BeaverMD
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 1:25pm
| So the CNT uses Butterfly SpinArt. Good to know. |
Posted By: beeray1
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 1:31pm
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Posted By: Timo Hu
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 1:36pm
I'm pretty sure CNT members' rubber sheet are combination. There must be some treaty available beyond the ITTF policy. ------------- Timo Boll ZLF FL Tenergy 05 Tenergy 05 |
Posted By: Timo Hu
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 1:39pm
It might be similar like SpinArt, that's what I guess but not sure. One thing I'm sure is that the rubber for National Hurricane is not so sticky like SpinArt. The commercial Hurricane is very sticky, but the national one is not so stick like commercial. ------------- Timo Boll ZLF FL Tenergy 05 Tenergy 05 |
Posted By: aroonkl
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 2:00pm
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Not sure if you understand. Flash memory & solid state are way different stories. There are so many companies compete and supply them. The competitor could buy them from anywhere. There are no real value in market recognition. There is also no good profit margin. Different story. If you have sole proprietary in one product. It costs you $10 to make and you sell for $50. You are selling 500,000#/year. Would you sell this product 1000 units of even $100 a piece to B company? When B company uses your product as base and creates image of superior product. B also uses your rebrand/modified product to boost sale of its sub-level in-house made. This in-house made is taking away your main product sale at 100,000#/year. You are making a good decision at $90x1000= $90,0000 gain and $40x100,000=$4,000,000 lost. Smart move, CEO. BTY is no dummy. So I would say OP's story is not real.
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Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 2:05pm
------------- Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
Posted By: ZingyDNA
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 2:21pm
Treaty
LMAO you crack me up |
Posted By: ZingyDNA
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 2:24pm
Of course your house is a factory, Cole. The only thing I like about these ITTF rules is they are very funny
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Posted By: bbkon
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 3:20pm
h3 Topsheet +tenergy sponge wouldnt have the low arc of chinese rubber,besides tenergy sponge would make a loud cork when looping hard
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Posted By: DistantStar
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 3:42pm
If you don't like the flash and lcd analogy, how about google supplying Google Maps to iPhone While Google might be a bit too generous IMO, I wouldnt mind doing sponge business if I know my sponge is not going to be used for a competing commercial product. 1. DHS did NOT create the image of a superior product as you claimed. Noone is going to dispute BTY superiority over DHS. 2. Rubber usage for CNT is NOT a free market system. The FH rubber IS going to be labeled DHS. If BTY does not supply the sponge, A competitor like ESN will. If ESN doesnt, they may try some inhouse sponge that comes close after boosted. No matter WHAT rubber the players end up using, it WILL sport a DHS <insert a current product here> logo to boost DHS sales. 3. more to #3, I talked to a family whose kid in China played semi-professionally. The truth is, the majority of the kids, before making the provincial team, use T05!!!! So all of the sudden, as soon as they get selected into provincial, they all started using DHS?! talk about a BIG jump, very fishy! 4. If DHS have OHH SO GOOD rubber, why dont they sell it for, say $60? oh wait... ------------- Nittaku Acoustic Xiom Sigma Euro 2.0 Tibhar Genius Sound 2.0 |
Posted By: ZingyDNA
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 3:46pm
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You guys know what? I think it's perfectly legal to tune the crap out of a sponge, because it's not approved by ITTF. As long as you attach the top sheet afterwards w/o altering it physically or chemically, you're fine as only the top sheet gets approved by ITTF. So that's how the Chinese dominate. Poor Europeans have been getting their Tenergies attached to a sponge they can't anything about them
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Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 3:59pm
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I'm sure any upper level player sponsored by bfly can get their stuff customized. ------------- Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
Posted By: bbkon
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 5:04pm
i suport the idea of ESN sponges, a guy who sells equipment in china told me that the national team player with pips are using chinese topsheet with german sponge,no need to boost
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Posted By: ZingyDNA
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 5:10pm
LOL I was joking about that. Of course if Timo Boll wants his top sheet and sponge to come in separately he will get it...
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Posted By: Krantz
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 5:50pm
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That would possibly explain ZJK loss.. If he started to rely on some air bubbles in a sponge instead of his physique then no wonder that lost his edge.
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Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 5:52pm
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Lol, OP is really funny. I guess he will say i'm also green and don't know what i'm talking about.... Any ways, I know the Australia national player - who trained 2 months in a provincial team base in China in December 2013. He is personal friends many members of CNT junior team, including FZD. He would put his hands on Liu Guozheng's shoulder when taking photos - just to give you an idea of his "relationship" with CNT A and B team members and coaches. Any ways, so FZD took both FH and BH rubbers off his blade after the SF (knowing he will not be playing in the final) and gave it to him. So some one now claims FZD is using commercial rubbers? The claim about stock count and handing rubbers back is also not true. I agree there is MANY different national rubbers and specific players ones have they names printed on. There is also many different sponge hardness and seriouly, a 36deg Tenergy rubber is way too soft for the FH..... I think for the rest of the older members here will know who I am and my relationship with many provincial coaches in China. I don't need to say any more, I also waiting for this uncle's photo. Then I will make sure I get a good friend of mine who was team mates (and good buddies) with Kong Linghui to verify this claim for us! Oh, btw this good friend of mine also have a few players in CNT B team (he is only provincial coach too), but his student must be using commerical versions too. |
Posted By: channyboi
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 6:16pm
| OMG op plz stop giving me cancer, are you sure uncle isn't just the janitor for CNT? |
Posted By: DistantStar
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 6:58pm
Humm teammate with KLH and provincial coach... LOL you friend with wangtao? Eitherway, please get to the bottom of this and post it here. I'm dying to know the real story!!! So let me get this straight, both side of the argument agree that DHS NAT rubbers different from commercial version more fundamentally than the QA. They are completely different rubbers, correct? I have also heard from multiple sources that NAT rubbers have topsheets that are not tacky. Could you verify that as well? ------------- Nittaku Acoustic Xiom Sigma Euro 2.0 Tibhar Genius Sound 2.0 |
Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 7:05pm
Heilongjiang provincial team mate - Ma Zhi Gang. No doubt DHS national rubbers for national team members are specifically produced for each player - special hardness, tickness etc. Top sheet as I understand is the same as commerical, just the best quality ones for national team. Only special/differences is sponge. Note - ITTF racket covering rules applies to top sheet and not sponge, only sponge related is 4mm rule and other than that, no illegal substance to be added after factor etc. Regarding topsheet that are not tacky, this is new to me. |
Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 7:14pm
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Let me be the first to post pictures :) Here is who I am talking about: http://www.facebook.com/TonysTableTennis/photos/a.446831095367818.114855.443481379036123/541427959241464/?type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-frc1%2Ft1.0-9%2F59253_541427959241464_1795264542_n.jpg&size=720%2C540&fbid=541427959241464" rel="nofollow - Photo 1 Maybe can ask LGL directly too http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.577728465611413.1073741847.443481379036123&type=3" rel="nofollow - Photo 2 Maybe can ask Ma Lin? http://www.facebook.com/TonysTableTennis/photos/a.568184916565768.1073741844.443481379036123/582425988474994/?type=1&relevant_count=1" rel="nofollow - Photo 3 Maybe can ask the Super league players (he coaches for Guangdong ChenJing TTC too) http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=202852249878005" rel="nofollow - A video from 2005 Where is student lost to Xu Xin in the U17 finals BTW, thats all links to my Facebook page, nothing for me to hide PS - he aint no uncle of mine, but someone I trust :) |
Posted By: aroonkl
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 7:16pm
Google sells advertise. IPhone sells equipments. What is your analogy? They are not direct competitors. If making $90,000 while loosing $4,000,000 wouldn't mind you. Lucky to your employees or company if you have one. With your vision, they most likely have gray future. If you don't like the flash and lcd analogy, how about google supplying Google Maps to iPhone While Google might be a bit too generous IMO, I wouldnt mind doing sponge business if I know my sponge is not going to be used for a competing commercial product. Wow. That is new to me. Bow to you with your inside info. This one I would not even debate the truth. I rather question IQs of the repeater. Most kids in China play T05 and change to DHS when they make to prov team. 3. more to #3, I talked to a family whose kid in China played semi-professionally. The truth is, the majority of the kids, before making the provincial team, use T05!!!! So all of the sudden, as soon as they get selected into provincial, they all started using DHS?! talk about a BIG jump, very fishy! 4. If DHS have OHH SO GOOD rubber, why dont they sell it for, say $60? oh wait... |
Posted By: patwhall
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 7:21pm
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This thread is such a joke. While I partially agreed with the OP's claim that National Version of DHS Hurricane 3 are mostly fake, but the rest of his claims are just ludicrous. The OP obviously doesn't know the truth about the rubbers CNT members are using. He's just here to spread rumors. CNT members have some of the most powerful FH in the world, this is a result of their training and the rubber they are using. Can you say the same for the Butterfly sponsored players? Why can't Butterfly make a rubber like H3? Oh you say SpinArt, who's using it professionally? Frankly you don't even need to look at the CNT members, you can go to clubs in China and you will meet provincial players all the time. These are semi-pros and guess what, most of them are using H3 BS and the sponge is not pored. And I believe DistantStar's comment, "Noone is going to dispute BTY superiority over DHS." is a simple over generalization. What is this superiority on? Revenue? Product quality? Volume? Management? Do you have data to prove that? And don't give me "I heard from such such who is professional in China", lots of people can claim that. I know families in China too who have ties to CNT but that doesn't mean they know more than other folks in this internet age.
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Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 7:32pm
T05 on top, H3 National BS on bottom (trust me, this is not commerical)
edit - photo removed! btw, this was photo of FZD's rubber - guess he is in trouble with the stock counter |
Posted By: GeneralSpecific
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 7:58pm
 ------------- Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 8:09pm
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General Specific what does that suppose to mean? |
Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 8:26pm
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pics or i am ma long's long lost brother ------------- Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
Posted By: Rich215
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 8:41pm
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My friend's mother's sister in law's 2nd cousin twice removed has a housekeeper that is the niece of a CNT's head shoe string assistant. That assistant said he has a secret recording of a head coach and several players talking about how they will use Mizuno uppers with Asics soles to get the upper hand in the recent WTTC in Japan. No wonder the CNT won both men's and women's divisions. Such support with unreal grip and forgiveness in such a combo shoe is a trade secret for the CNT. But you didnt hear that from me...............  ------------- |
Posted By: aroonkl
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 8:42pm
Yogi, U made me my laugh of the day.
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Posted By: GeneralSpecific
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 8:47pm
It's a fuzzy (and the most "infamous") picture of bigfoot. Your image wasn't too clear and this whole thread is a wild goose chase for something that probably doesn't exist, just like bigfoot. ------------- Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
Posted By: Timo Hu
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 9:00pm
What I'm sure is that your uncle is just a janitor for Australian elementary school team....lol ------------- Timo Boll ZLF FL Tenergy 05 Tenergy 05 |
Posted By: vutiendat1337
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 9:03pm
"Timo", you sound like a 15 year old kid who doesn't know better. Please, just stop and save your face, at least what's left of it. As an Asian, I am sure you understand.
 ------------- bty petr korbel st fh: donic bluefire red bh: dawei iqul black USATT:1811 http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40320&title=feedbackvutiendat1337" rel="nofollow - Feedback me |
Posted By: simon_xuan
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 11:25pm
Very nice to know. Thanks for sharing.
------------- RPB Rocks! BTY Innerforce ZLC Cpen | DHS H3N Blue Sponge | Victas V>15 Extra Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36695 |
Posted By: glanden.zheng
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 11:50pm
Yup, we have the same Australian National team friend that we're talking about don't we Tony It's just this whole forum has so many sources of information while the only source Timo Hu has is an uncle... pretty outrageous claims.------------- Butterfly Viscaria FL FH: Hurricane 3 Prov BH: Tenergy 05 |
Posted By: hanbingjie
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 11:51pm
| lol, i don't think so .................... |
Posted By: glanden.zheng
Date Posted: 05/12/2014 at 11:51pm
------------- Butterfly Viscaria FL FH: Hurricane 3 Prov BH: Tenergy 05 |
Posted By: Imago
Date Posted: 05/13/2014 at 1:12am
Like this?  
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Posted By: IanMcg
Date Posted: 05/13/2014 at 1:19am
Are you serious? Because when I look at the picture of Ma Lin's blue sponged Skyline II, I see that it was posted in 2011. If what you're saying is that the CNT switched to a hybrid rubber with TENERGY sponge with a Chinese topsheet because of the speed glue ban in 2008, Ma Lin used blue sponged Skyline II before and after the ban, which disproves your opinion that all the CNT members changed sponge circa 2008. I do recognize the frequent changes some players made between orange and blue sponge due to the speed glue ban and the adoption of boosters, but if you can point to me one A-team CNT member who is not using a brick-hard non-porous blue or orange sponged Hurricane or Skyline on his forehand and can give me undeniable proof that the CNT are using spring sponges under Hurricane and Skyline topsheets, then I will believe you, otherwise your opinion is just an opinion.
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Posted By: Timo Hu
Date Posted: 05/13/2014 at 1:21am
No problems, I will take pictures from my uncle's cellphone after I meet with him this August. Don't need to argue anymore. Everything gonna be clear in August. ------------- Timo Boll ZLF FL Tenergy 05 Tenergy 05 |
Posted By: chop4ever
Date Posted: 05/13/2014 at 1:22am
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you're super brave, Mr. Hu. your first state is "Don't buy any NT H3 !" but many people here just love to buy NT H3! even if they are clearly fake (like the photo above) ------------- There is no real "pro", "prov" or "NT" H3 in the market. Falco is not a booster |
Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 05/13/2014 at 6:02am
I thought, well I deleted the picture Guess it was pointless |
Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 05/13/2014 at 6:41am
not just that, more like a buddy buddy thing. |
Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 05/13/2014 at 7:33am
Yep, Same person indeed. But you know, FZD uses commerical version, Mr Who got tricked lol |
Posted By: glanden.zheng
Date Posted: 05/13/2014 at 7:47am
Poor Mr Who ------------- Butterfly Viscaria FL FH: Hurricane 3 Prov BH: Tenergy 05 |