Butterfly Feint AG???
Printed From: Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET
Category: Equipment
Forum Name: Equipment
Forum Description: Share your experience and discussions about table tennis equipments.
Moderator: haggisv
Assistant Moderators: position available
URL: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=68310
Printed Date: 05/03/2024 at 6:10am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Butterfly Feint AG???
Posted By: ChaserHUN
Subject: Butterfly Feint AG???
Date Posted: 09/13/2014 at 5:23pm
|
Hi there! I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with the Butterfly Feint AG rubber. Currently I'm using a Grubba Carbon ALL+ blade, with Sriver FX 2,1 on FH and Feint Long2 OX on BH. My style is attacking with forehand, and usually blocking pushing, smashing with bh. I love how the Feint Long 2 can confuse my opponents, and I can give back tricky serves, but on the other hand a lot of times I feel it too slow. Would be good if the ball would fly back from an incoming topspin to the opponent much faster, because that way they wouldn't have that much time to react, but still would have the sping reversal effects of long pips, also I find it difficult to drive even higher balls with the Feint Long 2, but this is maybe my lack of experience, because I've seen a lot of youtube videos where people do this. But do you think a Feint AG 1,7mm would suit my needs better? Would love to hear if someone has expereince with it, or even could compare it to the Feint Long 2
|
Replies:
Posted By: 100niTenis
Date Posted: 09/13/2014 at 10:43pm
|
Really good attacking rubber, but not funky. Soft sponge, so it will work better with harder blades. ------------- Blade, Rubbers, Shoes, Socks ... |
Posted By: bns7117
Date Posted: 09/13/2014 at 11:29pm
|
sword scylla might be a good alternative for much cheaper price. it's a good attacking pip as i heard. I have not used it, so no comment on it. But i did play someone with Feint AG(i think it is 1.7) on a nexy spartacus, the pips give me quite a bit of trouble. The trajectory path was different compared to some other long pips I have played. He could "top spin" with that rubber, the pips shoot off the ball really fast. Your service return could go long sometimes tho since the sponge is so thick... |
Posted By: ChaserHUN
Date Posted: 09/14/2014 at 7:08am
|
Well the Sriver FX sponge density is 33 degrees, the Feint AG is 28, not big of a difference. Everybody hates to play against my Feing Long 2, so the Feint AG would give the same problem to opponents?
|
Posted By: bns7117
Date Posted: 09/14/2014 at 12:15pm
| no comment since i have not played with FL 2 players before. sorry |
Posted By: spinitgood
Date Posted: 09/14/2014 at 1:37pm
|
Joola Badman is pretty good with the 1.3mm sponge. It can be really fast (for a long pips), yet I found the short game quite easy. It is an aggressive rubber if you play it close to the table. Yet you can make nicely confusing floating balls with a good block. It is on the expansive side though... ------------- Rasant Grip max on FH,Rasant powersponge max on BH Glued on a Ross Leidy custom blade - mahogany mahogany spruce mahogany mahogany |
Posted By: 1dennistt
Date Posted: 09/15/2014 at 2:42pm
|
Feint AG 1.7 mm will react more to the incoming spin than Feint II OX will. If you want a little more speed with the Feint II why not try a sponge under the Feint II. 1.0 mm would be a good place to start, a little more dwell time, without getting too mushy like with the 1.7 mm under the already soft AG long pips. Then you could go thicker if you still think it is too slow. Once you put the sponge under the pips it will feel and play differently. If someone around you plays with sponge under their pips I would suggest you try it out even if it is a different pip. For reference, I've played with both, with Feint II in .5, and 1.0; and with Feint AG in 1.3. Control was better with the Feint II, less reactive to spin, it was a little slower even in the 1.0 mm. The AG uses Butterfly's high Tension technology, which means the pips are softer and springier than the Feint II. I wound up playing with GD Giant Long in 1.0 mm, which I found similar to the Feint II. ------------- Donic Waldner World Champion 1989 ZLC (Inner), Donic BlueStorm Pro (Red) Max, ????? (Black) 1.8 mm) |
Posted By: ChaserHUN
Date Posted: 09/15/2014 at 3:54pm
|
How is the spin reversal effect of this rubber? There is really not much information on this, couldn't find any videos testing it, how long is it been out on the market?
|
Posted By: AcudaDave
Date Posted: 09/15/2014 at 4:44pm
|
My practice partner (1900 - 2000) played with AG in 1.3 and it was hard to play against. One thing it was very good at was fast slight-topspin serves. He would give me that fast long serve with it and I would always loop it in the bottom of the net. I doubt it would be very weird in 1.7, and if you're considering giving it a try on your BH then I'd try it in 1.3.
Another good LP for attacking is Andro's Chaos rubber. He has it in NS and it's pretty easy to attack with. It also comes in 1.3 which you might want to try. The NS produces a strong sinking ball and is good at attacking underspin. I would think the 1.3 would also be good at attacking underspin. ------------- Joola Zhou Qihao 90 blade Joola Dynaryz Inferno max - BH Nittaku Moristo SP 2.0 - FH |
Posted By: ChaserHUN
Date Posted: 09/16/2014 at 12:46am
|
Why do you think it would be weird in 1,7mm? Could he give you really fast shots with the 1,3mm rubber?
|
Posted By: ChaserHUN
Date Posted: 09/16/2014 at 6:31am
| Are there any advantages of attacking with long pips? |
Posted By: a23096713
Date Posted: 09/16/2014 at 8:39am
|
Attacking with long pips is a great way to disturb opponent and causes error during the rally. Ai fukuhara is a good example of that kind of style. There was also Deng Yaping who is unbeatable female champion at her prime with hitting long pip style with a simple friendship 755. ------------- Chop, Chop, and Counter Loop! BTY Cutlass + Tackiness D + Feint OX TSP Astron Yellow + Yasaka Original + Nittaku pimplemini One TSP Yanagi + UQ + BTY OX |
Posted By: a23096713
Date Posted: 09/16/2014 at 8:49am
|
Feint AG won't give you too much wobble shots, but the control for hitting is excellent. If you want faster rally with lesser wobble effect, Feint AG is perfect for you. However if you going from Feint long 2 OX to feint AG, that is a very huge change. It'll take a while before you get used to it. OX and sponge different in weight A LOT. You might have a difficult time getting used to new weight of rubber. It might change the feel of the racket as well. You rather stick with OX style with different rubber instead. ------------- Chop, Chop, and Counter Loop! BTY Cutlass + Tackiness D + Feint OX TSP Astron Yellow + Yasaka Original + Nittaku pimplemini One TSP Yanagi + UQ + BTY OX |
Posted By: JimT
Date Posted: 09/16/2014 at 10:37am
They both would be great examples of that... if they played with long pips. Both of them use(d) short pips. ------------- Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please... |
a23096713 wrote:Posted By: a23096713
Date Posted: 09/16/2014 at 10:45am
|
When Deng Yaping leave her racket at one of the TT Museum when she retired, the back of the racket is a friendship 755. Ai fukuhara used Feint Long VERY long time ago. She switch to Armstrong attack 8 after and have been using it ever since. ------------- Chop, Chop, and Counter Loop! BTY Cutlass + Tackiness D + Feint OX TSP Astron Yellow + Yasaka Original + Nittaku pimplemini One TSP Yanagi + UQ + BTY OX |
Posted By: 100niTenis
Date Posted: 09/16/2014 at 11:13am
|
Like I said, great rubber for hitting, it is NOT funky at all, but excellent control ! ------------- Blade, Rubbers, Shoes, Socks ... |
Posted By: ChaserHUN
Date Posted: 09/16/2014 at 12:45pm
|
I mainly use my my BH now to push/block, and the spin reversal gives most people troubles, but if they get the hang of it they topspin it consistently and than my only chance mostly to wait out if they make an error, or get too tired (lot of times they do haha), but my poblem is that I get lot of balls wich could be attacked easily from backhand and it's really freakin hard with the feint 2 ox and also have to hit loose balls really hard too. That's why I thought of the Feint AG 1,7mm, so I can attack too, and probably my push/block would go back lot faster and they wouldn't have that much time to do another good topspin, probably I wouldn't have as much spin reversal with this rubber. How would you describe a long pip attack? What happens too the ball than? I don't see now really world class players using(attacking?) with long pips.
|
Posted By: ChaserHUN
Date Posted: 09/16/2014 at 12:54pm
| Actually an attack with a long pip wouldn't produce a dead ball, beacuse of the sponge the ball stays on the racket more time, and the pimples stop the ball and produce a dead ball that would be easy to crush? Or is this different with the Feint AG? |
Posted By: a23096713
Date Posted: 09/16/2014 at 1:00pm
|
Feint long 2 OX is not the best ideal for attacking in my opinion. It's design for more spin oriented long pip. You can generate quite a lot of spin with it comparing to other long pip. If you want to stick with Butterfly, Feint soft/OX and Feint AG is better choice. But stay away from thick long pip. It's really difficult to control when they are too thick. Long pip attack> receiving a back spin serve is pretty easy as you just hit it back and the ball will have a bit of top spin. For hitting, technically you can hit through any shot if you have the most precise judgement and assuming ball is high enough to get over. Balls will be flat and direct line. however, the faster the hit is, the less spin variation your opponent will get. Long pip will nullified the opponent's spin if hit really hard and fast. For variation, the soft hitting is the magic. Take a look at the Ai Fukuhara style, despite of she is using the medium pip, her style is how the long pip variation style will do. A bit of soft hit variation and super hard hitting when chance presents. If you search Deng Yaping's on youtube, you'll see the very consistent hitting game with long pip. It all depends what would you preferred to do, you want variation or fast hitting rally game? Like I said, look at the pip hitter examples and decide for yourself. ------------- Chop, Chop, and Counter Loop! BTY Cutlass + Tackiness D + Feint OX TSP Astron Yellow + Yasaka Original + Nittaku pimplemini One TSP Yanagi + UQ + BTY OX |
Posted By: ChaserHUN
Date Posted: 09/16/2014 at 2:18pm
|
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXaFPOLObRE
I like Ai fukuhara's style pretty much, now this I think cannot be done too well with a Feint Long 2 OX, but would th AG be good for this? It seems she doesn't rely on spin on her back hand just hits through. According to other websites she uses Armstrong Attack 8 The two seem pretty different: http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii297/Elhorian/table%20tennis/pict0093.jpg http://www.dpin100.com/images/upload/Image/d2(562).jpg The Flarestorm 2 seems much closer to it: http://www.tt-ua.com/Data/ProductsGallery/butterfly/L_butterfly-flarestorm-2-51855b0ab1b21.jpg I would love to hit through like she does, but still have a good push/block if needed. But would like to attack much more with mike BH too
|
Posted By: ChaserHUN
Date Posted: 09/16/2014 at 3:27pm
|
Actually the Raystorm seems the closest to the Armstrong Attack 8 wonder what sponge thickness is she using?
|
Posted By: 1dennistt
Date Posted: 09/16/2014 at 4:24pm
|
Raystorm and Flairstorm are short pips, and Feint AG is long. Somewhere in the middle is Attack 8, a medium pip. Not as good generally at producing spin as short pips and not as good at producing reversal as long pips. Other examples would be Friendship 563, Dr. N Diamant, and Nittaku Pimplemini or TSP MilliTall. There are others available, some closer to long pips (Friendship 755-2) some closer to short pips(Friendship 799). Each will have different properties/strengths/weaknesses and require different techniques to be successful. If you go with the short pips your learning curve will be larger, just determine where you want you game to go first. I would suggest trying some of these before you buy if possible so you can get an idea of how they would fit into your game. At least one of each type, short pips, long pips and a medium pip if available. ------------- Donic Waldner World Champion 1989 ZLC (Inner), Donic BlueStorm Pro (Red) Max, ????? (Black) 1.8 mm) |
Posted By: ChaserHUN
Date Posted: 09/16/2014 at 4:30pm
|
I feel I'm missing out a lot of pint that could be won with backhand. attacking I would gess would be easier with SP than with LP. I would want to be able to hit through not rely really on spin that much. Now my game on the BH is mostly just puching/blocking, sometimes chopping and if the ball comes higher and not too spinny I hit it, but I want to change it to mostly hitting through aggressivly, and occasionally push/block if my opponent shot a topsin at me.
|
Posted By: TT newbie
Date Posted: 09/16/2014 at 9:37pm
| I´ve tried once a very good medium pips, Double Fish 837. It had some advantages like being less sensitive to spin. And some weaknesses like lacking speed when compared to SP. |
Posted By: ChaserHUN
Date Posted: 09/17/2014 at 1:23am
|
Still from pictures the Armstrong Attack 8 looks much closer to Butterflys short pips. Ai Fukuhara's backhand is pretty strong, and she has awesome control
|
Posted By: 1dennistt
Date Posted: 09/17/2014 at 9:24am
|
What has your coach suggested for you to play with? ------------- Donic Waldner World Champion 1989 ZLC (Inner), Donic BlueStorm Pro (Red) Max, ????? (Black) 1.8 mm) |
Posted By: ChaserHUN
Date Posted: 09/17/2014 at 3:40pm
| He suggested pips on BH, for blocking and pushing, but now I feel I want to be more on the offensive side, that's why I thought of the Feint AG, or even switching to short pips like Raystorm or Flarestorm 2 |
Posted By: AcudaDave
Date Posted: 09/17/2014 at 4:24pm
As far as Ai Fukuhara goes, it's my understanding she plays with Attack 8 medium pips on her BH. She definitely doesn't use short pips on her BH as it causes so much trouble for her opponents. ------------- Joola Zhou Qihao 90 blade Joola Dynaryz Inferno max - BH Nittaku Moristo SP 2.0 - FH |
Posted By: ChaserHUN
Date Posted: 09/18/2014 at 12:49am
|
I'm considering giving the Feint AG a try, unsure to get 1,3mm or 1,7mm If I get the movement right, I can get flat balls over the net with a topspin kind of movement with the feint 2 but still very hard, would need some extra grip, would the AG have that? Also does it have some kind of catapult effect? I would need to much faster on my backhand, whitout hitting with full power. Looping for example is pretty hard with the Feint 2, and pretty slow, also disturbing for the opponent but I would need to be faster, also would be great to do some BH topspins sometimes How accurate if butterflys website? Feint 2: Spin: 3,25 Speed: 6,25 Feint AG Spin: 4 Speed:7 doesn't seem too much of a difference
|
Posted By: a23096713
Date Posted: 09/18/2014 at 11:19am
|
You used OX thus relatively low spin generation for your Feint 2. Feint AG itself is already pretty fast, so you might want to stick with 1.3 for higher control. No point of using a thick one as it's very difficult to learn. Catapult effect on long pip... that... is hard to tell. because long pip itself has different feeling then a normal tensor rubber with catapult effect. When you are pushing the ball aggressively, you can feel that catapult effect ( the ball that wrap by the sponge feel) I have no experience in looping with long pip, so I can't tell you how that is gonna work. Long pip really aren't that well in terms of looping. ------------- Chop, Chop, and Counter Loop! BTY Cutlass + Tackiness D + Feint OX TSP Astron Yellow + Yasaka Original + Nittaku pimplemini One TSP Yanagi + UQ + BTY OX |
Posted By: ChaserHUN
Date Posted: 09/18/2014 at 11:46am
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCTUJuVnnxc
In this match it seems to me they are both using inverted on both sides, am I seeing it right?
|
Posted By: a23096713
Date Posted: 09/19/2014 at 12:45am
|
Fukuhara uses the mid pip. Fukuoka uses long pip ox. PS: Listen carefully from the racket's sounds. You'll hear it sounds like hitting the woods instead, that is the long pip ox. ------------- Chop, Chop, and Counter Loop! BTY Cutlass + Tackiness D + Feint OX TSP Astron Yellow + Yasaka Original + Nittaku pimplemini One TSP Yanagi + UQ + BTY OX |
Posted By: ChaserHUN
Date Posted: 09/19/2014 at 1:22am
| Yeah maybe you are right, if I take a closer look, even in 1080p it is hard to see |
Posted By: ChaserHUN
Date Posted: 09/19/2014 at 2:32pm
| The city where I live we have to teams here, one better and one more amatur(mostly kids), I'm with the kids, hence I'm 24. My pips gave some trouble sometime to better players when I was hitting with it, also I managed to "topspin" few servers with the feint 2 and sometimes it was confusing them. Maybe I'll give the Feint AG a try to get more speed and a bit more grip go get the ball over the net. |
Posted By: 1dennistt
Date Posted: 09/19/2014 at 3:01pm
|
Good luck with the upgrade. Hope it helps you achieve some of your goals.
By the way which thickness did you choose? ------------- Donic Waldner World Champion 1989 ZLC (Inner), Donic BlueStorm Pro (Red) Max, ????? (Black) 1.8 mm) |
Posted By: ChaserHUN
Date Posted: 09/19/2014 at 3:35pm
| Well I'm thinking of the 1,3 version, to have more control, with the pips the whole sheet will be 2,5mm thick |
Posted By: ChaserHUN
Date Posted: 09/27/2014 at 5:09pm
| Ordered a sheet in 1,3mm, arrives next week, will have an update how it plays after the feint long 2 ox |
Posted By: ChaserHUN
Date Posted: 10/07/2014 at 3:02pm
|