PPH's Yinhe 40+ Plastic Ball (SEAMLESS) Review
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Topic: PPH's Yinhe 40+ Plastic Ball (SEAMLESS) Review
Posted By: PingPongHolic10
Subject: PPH's Yinhe 40+ Plastic Ball (SEAMLESS) Review
Date Posted: 10/03/2014 at 11:49pm
  Just received some Yinhe’s 40+ Plastic Balls. They are seamless!!!! Gotta say that I’m really excited about the quality & playability. They are hard just like Nittaku’s Premiums & Double Fish 3 Star Balls by pressing pretty hard against them. It has the ITTF APPROVED stamp on ball & box. Checked every single ball in the box of 6, and ALL of them are perfectly round. By bouncing next to the double fish & Nittaku Premium & a Palio Seamless they all have same consistent bounce height. Will put them in action next week & provide review… I will have them for sale once I receive within a week or two upon delivery. Stay tuned… Update: 10/11:Played with the Yinhe Poly Balls(YPB) for a week now. At first, it took some time to get adjusted to the bounce & feel. I was fairly comfortable with them after 3hours (1 Session). As mentioned in the XSF Poly Ball reviews, the YPB also plays very similar to Cell Balls. Sound is not distracting at all like the (broken sounds of) Palio PB I got or the Nittaku Seamed PB (paddlepalace). These Poly Balls don’t give the same feel you get from Cell Balls, or we just need time to get adjusted to them. During practice & gameplay, the ball seems like it’s lighter but you can still feel the heaviness (like the Nittaku Premiums & DoubleFish) when you hit it. Ball speed is slower, however, the bounce is very consistent. Some players I played games with didn’t really like the ball, especially a 3rd ball attacker from one of my vids. I was able to block off at least 80% of his 3rd balls where I would win most of those rallies after that. All-around ralliers would love these balls, I enjoyed very much that aspect of the game, especially against those SP penholders who like to stay super close table & block till you drop. I did notice some loss of spin in service, however return of service was easier on my end too. It will take some adjustment to get use to the bounce as some of intended shorts serves went long. Long pushes got too many points from unexpectantly dropping back on the table. Surprisingly, my loops were more consistent & even more spinnier. I felt it during gameplay where I can control my opponent with my topspin arsenal… bear in mind that these are similar level & better players than me. After 3 sessions this week, the ball endured some serious pounding. It has hit (hard hits) against concrete walls, steel lockers, metal barrier edges, foreheads, watches, smashed against the table with rackets & bared blades (because they didn’t like the ball=S). It’s still not broken yet!!! Even the best of best in Nittaku Premiums/Double Fish Cell Balls won’t stand a chance. In summary, I am super happy with these Yinhe Poly Balls. Great value for slightly lower price than XSF balls. They have far exceeded my expectations, & should take notable credits. So I was told by our Rep here that Yinhe distributed these as samples. He gave me two boxes, and I did order some for my own use. Update 11/20/2014: I've mentioned that these are SEAMLESS! However, I have noticed that it does have a small seam at about 1cm, cause that's how the balls get cracked. Balls have lasted me over a week each, except when it hit the seamed part of the ball. Even that, they don't break as dramatic as the Joola super plastics & Nittaku SHAs. I conclude that these are far superior than those, only thing that I played with that can compete against these are Nittaku Premium Japans. Altho, I am not sure about NPJ's durability as I only hit with them for a few minutes...I can say they are similar characteristics...consistent roundness & high bounce compare to other plastics.------------- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55790&KW=&title=fs-ft-2014-inventory-clearancecpenspro-releases" rel="nofollow - My FS/FT Member of Yinhe,OSP & Nexy Clan |
Replies:
Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 10/04/2014 at 12:14am
Bring themm to Flushing Korean TT club next weekend and see if you win vs me again using them and Ur new ZX blade  ------------- Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc |
Posted By: PingPongHolic10
Date Posted: 10/04/2014 at 1:22am
Challenge Accepted!!!  ------------- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55790&KW=&title=fs-ft-2014-inventory-clearancecpenspro-releases" rel="nofollow - My FS/FT Member of Yinhe,OSP & Nexy Clan |
Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 10/05/2014 at 1:22am
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I just got in 3 boxes of 6. Didn't get to try them tonight though. Will try them tuesday. As stated they are seamless. I have some giant dragon seamed coming in for stock. I may end up carrying both. ------------- Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 10/05/2014 at 5:51am
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I also got in 3 boxes, hehe |
Posted By: Believer
Date Posted: 10/05/2014 at 5:39pm
| Where do you buy them? |
Posted By: igorponger
Date Posted: 10/05/2014 at 7:12pm
LET'S LIVE AND SEE... Just communicated with a celebrity boy, Kirill Tarasenko 16yo, participant for Kazakhstam Noc at the Asian Game table tennis events. He confirmed that the ball in use was CHAMPION celluloid Korea-made. The ball to be scarcely found someplace on Europa-America market, but on Asian region markets only. I admire very much to see if XU Xin is good enough to gain a golden glory with hard plastic DHS as much as he did with celluloid mild-soft meterial. World Men's Cup oncoming next week would be an answer illustrious. . |
Posted By: haggisv
Date Posted: 10/05/2014 at 7:26pm
I got mine too I had a very brief hit with them. The bounce is good, actually slightly higher than a Double Fish celluloid! Spin is still significantly less than celluloid. Feel is a little hard. Dimensions are around 40.3mm, which is on the high side. Sound is only slightly different to celluloid. Roundness is not bad, but one ball was a little off. Roundness is similar to seamed plastic balls, while I expected they would be better. Not bad balls though, and they'll probably improve. ------------- Smart; VS>401, Dtecs OX http://tabletennisshop.com.au/index.php?main_page=page&id=42" rel="nofollow - Tenergy Alternatives | http://tabletennis-reviews.com" rel="nofollow - My TT Articles |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/05/2014 at 9:43pm
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Yep, just like XSF. Nice high bounce, also a more consistent bounce. Much better than the seamed balls. However, maybe Yin He is getting the second tier balls they make? I have not had a roundness problem with an XSF labeled ball. All of the polyballs are a little slower and less spin in the area, that's a size issue. As to whether they feel soft or hard, that is a really complex issue. |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/05/2014 at 10:26pm
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Hanno is now selling a seamless 40+ ball that is made in Germany, it appears to be the one made by Weener. Rejoice, the Weener balls are here! http://shop.sport-schreiner-tt.de/dstore/Baelle-Zubehoer/28525/Hanno-***-Competition-40+--%28nahtlos%29.html?sid=1 |
Posted By: ttman
Date Posted: 10/06/2014 at 1:23am
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Doesn't it say made in prc on the box, people's republic of china ------------- |
Posted By: haggisv
Date Posted: 10/06/2014 at 3:18am
Yes, when it says only "Germany" on the ball, not "made in Germany", you can be almost sure it's made in China. ttman is right, it does made "made in PRC" ------------- Smart; VS>401, Dtecs OX http://tabletennisshop.com.au/index.php?main_page=page&id=42" rel="nofollow - Tenergy Alternatives | http://tabletennis-reviews.com" rel="nofollow - My TT Articles |
Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 10/06/2014 at 4:04am
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So I believe all Yinhe resellers has received these free balls. BTW - I wasn't expecting them until TNT called me to informed that my parcel has arrived in customs and they will deliver the next morning. 2 years business with them and this is the first time I got this surprise. Maybe it got to do with me harrasing them about Big Dipper and no one stocking them lol I also got a sheet of Moon Speed (red 38) and Neptune (Red OX), not sure what they want me to do with those as I stock Moon Speed already and wonder if the Neptune is 40+ pips or not lol. And 2 reds....hm.... And they know I want a harder Big Dipper (I complain that 39 is way too soft, feels like 36) |
Posted By: JimT
Date Posted: 10/06/2014 at 9:34am
What's the pricing going to be? at least the ballpark? ------------- Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please... |
cole_ely wrote:Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/06/2014 at 10:00am
False alarm. Weener balls not yet here. |
Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 10/06/2014 at 10:36am
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All these are coming in ball park $2 a ball retail. My cost with shipping maybe $3 per box of 3. Maybe I'll go $6.50 per box or something. ------------- Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/06/2014 at 10:49am
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XSF is $11 for 6 balls from pingpong depot. That is a pretty good price but doesn't include shipping. When someone produces a seamed ball that approaches the performance of the seamless ones, I might consider them -- so far only Nittaku Premium in Japan. http://www.pingpongdepot.com/jomvirtue/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=68550&category_id=17&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=64 |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/06/2014 at 10:59am
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Coming back to Hanno Ball, the box says "designed in Germany, Manufactured in PRC". I wonder if this is something different than the XSF ball? |
Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 10/06/2014 at 11:30am
I'm kind of the opposite. from what I've seen the seamed plastic play better than the seamless. ------------- Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 10/06/2014 at 11:58am
I'm with Cole here, seam is better than seamless Also the factory gets the balls ITTF approved. and if companies like Yinhe, Xiom, Butterfly etc orders balls from that factory, the balls get ITTF approved too - with the logo design This news was actually shared by ITTF few months ago. So this is also why you have so many approved 40+ balls on the listing. If i'm correct, there is 1 factory from Germany, 2 from China and 1 from Japan that is making these new polyballs |
Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 10/06/2014 at 11:59am
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The seamless bounce is truer. Perhaps it's just that sound... ------------- Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/06/2014 at 12:56pm
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Nope. Seamed ball bounces too low and too erratically. The high bounce of the seamless ball is much closer to celluloid and makes the game much closer to celluloid. Play with them more, or better yet watch good players use them. You will see much less complaining about bad bounces. |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 10/06/2014 at 1:59pm
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I have no doubt in my mind that the seamless plays better and lasts longer. You have more time to adjust to the ball with the higher and less erratic bounce. ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: igorponger
Date Posted: 10/06/2014 at 5:29pm
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TAOBAO WILL FEED ALL THE MONEY MAKERS. I LIKE TAOBAO, Would I get professionally engaged in plastic balls commerce, I could surely gain a huge profit from Taobao and become all lousy with money within a year or so. Unfortunately, I have now got much more family commitments to do. http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=39964783434" rel="nofollow - http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=39964783434 |
Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 10/07/2014 at 1:11pm
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Or you could find yourself stuck with a ton of balls that aren't round and lose your shirt. I know people who's had that happen. ------------- Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
Posted By: nittakuball
Date Posted: 10/07/2014 at 7:21pm
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I order 120 Nittaku 40+ Premium from Japan 3 weeks ago is back order hope there ship out Oct 10. ------------- DHS 032 Butterfly Bryce Highspeed Singapore & Canada |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/07/2014 at 9:15pm
I only ordered three  I hope to get them soon but if I like them a lot will stock up. The time I tried one of them it was very good, because it actually bounces reasonably high -- like celluloid and XSF seamless, and unlike any of the other plastic seamed balls. |
Posted By: haggisv
Date Posted: 10/07/2014 at 9:36pm
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Are these the Japan-made ones? ------------- Smart; VS>401, Dtecs OX http://tabletennisshop.com.au/index.php?main_page=page&id=42" rel="nofollow - Tenergy Alternatives | http://tabletennis-reviews.com" rel="nofollow - My TT Articles |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/07/2014 at 10:02pm
| Yes. They are very different from the Chinese ones -- well at least the one ball that I got to try. |
Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 10/08/2014 at 9:30am
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I got to play with the yinhe plastic a bit last night. Very different feel. The ball grabs the table like twice as much as I'm used to. Backspin is killed on the table and the ball sits up. I'm sure they're as good (probably the same) as any of the seamed balls, but they sure do play differently. I couldn't play with them much because the guys in the club rebelled against them. ------------- Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
Posted By: igorponger
Date Posted: 10/08/2014 at 1:10pm
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NOBODY CAN ABUSE THE LAW... Nobody can do against the law. Once the ball is marked with ITTF Logo, it is legal. You should ALWAYS proceed your own way, you should not listen to a mutineer's voice. Never you should, never... |
Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 10/08/2014 at 2:18pm
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Well, unless I want to play by myself against the wall or just practice serves, I kind of had no choice. ------------- Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/08/2014 at 7:10pm
Well maybe the guys at the club wanted to play with other balls with ITTF stamps for ordinary club play, since it's not the World Cup. (I still prefer seamless balls by a long shot over other polyballs, as do a lot other people here, but it's just that -- a preference). Cole probably just wanted to be a regular guy and not some sort of authoritarian. Cole, keep trying to get others to use them. They will play better. |
Posted By: rui pedro81
Date Posted: 10/08/2014 at 11:43pm
how about you refund the money for the rubber you sold to me by shameless lying and deceiving?? How you have the courage to even post in this forum after that shameless deal you made is beyond belief! P.S find yourself lucky you don't live anywhere near me or I would be sure to find you and shove that rubber you sold me down your throat! ------------- http://www.mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=47168&KW=feedback+rui&" rel="nofollow - my feedback |
Posted By: ZApenholder
Date Posted: 10/09/2014 at 8:41am
Mean while I thought cellu and plastic balls are part of the law for the world (maybe not in Russia) Maybe our Russian friend is a bit early, he should come back in July 2016 with this law enforcement |
Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 10/09/2014 at 8:56am
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Also I think they may play better when some of the grit is smoothed out. I have a tournament with regular balls coming after Thanksgiving. Maybe after that I'll try to make a switch. ------------- Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 10/10/2014 at 8:07am
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Received the shipping notice for my Nittaku balls from Iruiru today. Still a bit surprised that no one discussed the ball after the European teams and compared it to the DHS ball. ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/10/2014 at 10:11am
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I got the same notice. I wonder how long before they will be sold by North American vendors? |
Posted By: Mastermind
Date Posted: 10/10/2014 at 11:48am
The European Championship was discussed on the German forum at tt-news.de and poor durability of the Nittaku Premium plastic balls was reported. |
Posted By: Rich215
Date Posted: 10/10/2014 at 1:16pm
OUCH !!! on the price of those Nittaku 40+ Premiums..... ------------- |
Posted By: JimT
Date Posted: 10/10/2014 at 2:06pm
And Timo seemed to be not very happy with them... although when someone is losing it is often a good idea to blame equipment. When I played with plastic balls yesterday, at the club, my opponent decided we should train for the upcoming NA teams Washington DC tournament and so we used Joola Super-P first (they are still easily the worst plastic balls I have played with) and then Kinson ***. My opponent is a 2200-level player with a lot of fast and slow loop, lots of spin etc. It was ridiculously easy to block and flat hit his loops, so I won the first two sets while he was choking on his "WTF" pronouncements (I don't blame him for that, I can testify myself that I would have gone bonkers in his place). Then he finally readjusted and we had a very close 5th set which I lost. Moral: even the best plastic balls (and Kinson *** is certainly one of the best) are significantly different from celluloid when it comes to high spin game. It could be beneficial for the flat hitters and blockers (myself included, though I employ spin as well but not as much), so I expect a lot of very unusual results from NA Teams. ------------- Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please... |
Posted By: Mastermind
Date Posted: 10/10/2014 at 2:23pm
Firstly, Timo Boll is not known for blaming equipment. Secondly, I referred to the durability issue only, not the playing properties of the Nittaku Premium. Thirdly, if you do "expect a lot of very unusual results from NA Teams" where the Nittaku Premium is going to be used, as far as I know, why not assume that Boll's results might have been influenced by the specific playing properties of the Nittaku Premium? |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/10/2014 at 3:28pm
Small correction. The NA Teams will use the Joola 40+ balls because the event is sponsored by Joola. Unfortunately, that is one of the really bad polyballs. Yes, strange results may ensue. The US Nationals will use the Nittaku Premium 40+ from Japan. I can say nothing at all about its durability, but it definitely plays better than the other seamed polyballs. However, I doubt it will be as good as the seamless balls and it will be more expensive. I will know for sure very soon since Iruiru has shipped me my Nittaku premiums. |
Posted By: AcudaDave
Date Posted: 10/10/2014 at 3:43pm
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Nittaku doesn't manufacture balls in Japan as I've been told they are all made in China. They might be boxed in Japan, but essentially all the balls are made in China. Was also told that Double Fish 3* poly balls are slightly harder and should play better than the other poly balls. They should be available soon.
The seamless balls simply have too much variance in size and roundness and therefore the seamed balls which are using the older technology used for celluloid balls will play better.
Don't know about you, but I'll give the Double Fish a try as soon as they are available. ------------- Joola Zhou Qihao 90 blade Joola Dynaryz Inferno max - BH Nittaku Moristo SP 2.0 - FH |
Posted By: Rich215
Date Posted: 10/10/2014 at 4:27pm
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The Double Fish poly ball has been available for awhile now. I got some first from pingpongdepot.com which is in Canada. You can get them in the US from JZ over at tabletennisonly.com A club mate got several Joola P balls at the US Open and has been using them off and on. I got the Double Fish poly balls about a month or so ago. He prefers the Double Fish ball as well. I felt the Joola P ball was softer feeling and didnt play as well over all with varying shot types. ------------- |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 10/10/2014 at 4:33pm
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Great logic, AcudaDave. However, a lot of what you say does not correspond with my experience. DFish ball already available. The seamed vs seamless issue is not as critical as how high the ball bounces. The Nittaku Premiums are supposed to be made in Japan (not the SHAs, which are essentially DHS balls rebranded). Finally, quality controll around the XuShaofa 3* has been good iny experience - it is seamless and my favorite ball. Decent durability and if all balls play as well as that one, celluloid will be forgotten in no time. ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: Rich215
Date Posted: 10/10/2014 at 4:45pm
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NextLevel, i totally agree with you on the "celluloid will be forgotten in no time." For most this will be true when they actually have to or force themselves to use the new balls. There will still be many hold outs that will have to be dragged kicking and moaning about it. Im waiting for a US based seller to get some XSF balls in stock to order. I still dont understand the real possible manufacturing changes that may have taken place with them. XSF was not really clear in their explanation of the 2 different labeled balls with different logos. They contradicted themselves in the Q&A from pingpongdepot.com ------------- |
Posted By: AcudaDave
Date Posted: 10/10/2014 at 4:50pm
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I meant DF balls will be available from a certain dealer.
I believe DHS currently manufacturers about 90% of the world's supply of balls, and that includes Nittaku. Nittaku balls are not manufactured in Japan. They might have made in Japan if they are boxed and printed in Japan, but they are not manufactured in Japan.
I wish you were right about the XuShaofa seamless balls, but I don't think the seamless balls have as good a quality control at the moment. Maybe they will get better with time.
Whatever happens, I just wish they would stay with celluloid balls, or find some other material that isn't as slick as plastic. Plastic is also cheaper than celluloid, but since poly balls are new they will be able to charge more for them. ------------- Joola Zhou Qihao 90 blade Joola Dynaryz Inferno max - BH Nittaku Moristo SP 2.0 - FH |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 10/10/2014 at 5:22pm
Based on what??? Other than sound, I don't know anyone who has played with these balls recently and considers then worse than the seamed balls. I actually gave someone DHS, DoubleFish and XSF at the same time and he said without prompting that he liked XSF the best (this was a random hit with celluloid balls interspersed) and had already broken the DHS ball by the time his 20 minutes of hitting were through. PingpongDepot has all the balls. ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: roundrobin
Date Posted: 10/10/2014 at 5:22pm
Dave, current Nittaku poly balls sold by Paddle Palace are made in China. However, they are not called Nittaku "Premium" 40+ but Nittaku "SHA". The made-in-Japan Nittaku Premium 40+ will be available soon at Palace Paddle as well. ------------- Current USATT Rating: 2181 Argentina National Team Member, 1985-1986. Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association. My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red |
Posted By: PingPongHolic10
Date Posted: 11/15/2014 at 6:34pm
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Update: Durability is far superior than any of the other balls I've played with: Joola Super Plastic, Double Fish, XSF, Nittaku SHA. One ball lasted me over a week!!! that's UNHEARD of!!! I believe they are same as NEXY balls as the packaging is very similar. Anybody want to trade for a box of Yinhe for Nexy can contact me & I can make comparisons. But I'm pretty sure they were produced in the same factory. ------------- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55790&KW=&title=fs-ft-2014-inventory-clearancecpenspro-releases" rel="nofollow - My FS/FT Member of Yinhe,OSP & Nexy Clan |
Posted By: LOG1C1AN
Date Posted: 11/15/2014 at 8:28pm
Actually, I'm almost certain that XSF, Nexy, and Yinhe 40+ plastic balls are all the same exact ball with different brand stamps and packaging.
|
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 11/15/2014 at 10:00pm
| I know that is true. They are good balls regardless of the stamp. |
Posted By: hookumsnivy
Date Posted: 12/09/2014 at 12:32am
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I've played 2 nights at the club with the Yinhe seamless balls and I've been very happy with them (okay, just the 1 since it's holding up). As expected, the spin (especially on serves) and speed are reduced and smashing seems to be a bit easier because of it. Otherwise they don't play that much different than celluloid. It didn't take long to adapt, but I played pretty close to the table. Maybe I avoid a lot of the difference based on that. The 2nd night I played exclusively w/ the plastic ball and nobody complained. My first opponent didn't even realize it was plastic during warm up until I told him. Everyone I played thought it was much better than the other plastic balls that they've tried at the club - really only the Nittaku SHA, the IPong training ball and the Xushaofa prior to being approved. There might have been 1 more. The bounce was very consistent and it flew straight - one of the guys had issues w/ the SHA when he hit hard it would wobble a bit. He hits hard so he was probably making soft spots on the SHA. A funny thing happened the first night. The guys at the table next to me were hitting with a brand new Nittaku SHA that they just got from TT11 while we were hitting w/ the brand new Yinhe. Probably 15 into it, the Nittaku broke.
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Posted By: JimT
Date Posted: 12/10/2014 at 6:17pm
Yeah we have killed plenty of SHA and JOOLA plastic balls at our club. But yesterday I saw (for the first time) how XSF plastic ball was broken. A player hit it with the (rather sharp) edge of his racket, the ball then flew into the wall and when landed on the floor it had a big L-shaped crack (I'd say 1 cm x 1 cm in size) in it. That ball was brought to the club brand new 2 hours before and then it was constantly in play by a few of our most aggressive players. ------------- Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please... |
Posted By: roundrobin
Date Posted: 12/10/2014 at 6:24pm
Did you have a sniff? Some forum members are interested in knowing what it smell like... ------------- Current USATT Rating: 2181 Argentina National Team Member, 1985-1986. Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association. My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 12/10/2014 at 6:29pm
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Every time a seamless ball breaks the first time round someone who has not seen it before, it's headline news... for Chinese seamed, it's ho-hum news... ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 12/10/2014 at 6:43pm
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Almost no smell at all. I stepped on one yesterday. |
Posted By: wturber
Date Posted: 12/10/2014 at 6:51pm
Yeah. I wouldn't expect a smell form the seamless since we know that the molding process requires a plastic that melts under heat. What I'm really curious about regarding the seamless balls is if they are actually pressurized. I may do a series of bounce tests on one and then drill a small hole in it to see if that alters the bounce. The assumption would be that if it does alter the bounce it would be from the reduction in internal pressure. I have confirmed that Joola balls smell of camphor as do Nittaku SHA balls. That's consistent with the claim that they are both DHS balls. I'm wondering if Double Fish balls also smell of camphor. If not, knowledge could help determine the source of other branded Chinese seamed balls. ------------- Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 12/10/2014 at 7:03pm
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I will break a DF and Nittaku SHA to compare their smell. By the way, I don't think it's camphor, but maybe some other solvent rather like it. |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 12/10/2014 at 7:04pm
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The DFish and DHS balls are very similar once you look past their size. I predict camphor. ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: wturber
Date Posted: 12/10/2014 at 8:43pm
I smell camphor (Vicks Vap-o-rub-like smell) pretty distinctly in the the Joola and SHA. Of course, my nose is hardly a calibrated chromagraph - so I could be wrong. But I strongly suspect that they are mixing celluloid and some other plastic. ------------- Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
Posted By: roundrobin
Date Posted: 12/11/2014 at 1:31am
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DHS is holding on to their old manufacturing equipments with their dear life...lol Just do the minimum needed (mix and match some celluloid w/ cheap plastic) to get past Adham...really not that hard if you can cough up the dough to sponsor all his major tourneys!  ------------- Current USATT Rating: 2181 Argentina National Team Member, 1985-1986. Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association. My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red |
Posted By: igorponger
Date Posted: 12/11/2014 at 8:28am
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THE%20%20NEW%20PLASTIC%20MATERIAL%20IS%20NO%20MYSTERY%20%20AT%20ALL%20..." rel="nofollow - THE NEW PLASTIC MATERIAL IS NO MYSTERY AT ALL ... http://www.google.com/patents/CN103172910A?cl=en" rel="nofollow - http://www.google.com/patents/CN103172910A?cl=en Yes, the camphor powder is being used in plenty for making the seamed balls + some alcohol + nylon polimeric material. This newly developed polymeric material is the very thing for making DHS seamed balls nowdays, and it is the material a fraction more solid as against normal celluloid, that 1.41 g/cm3 versus 1.35. This is the very reason why DHS manufacturer did always insist on a heavier weigh standard for plastic balls. |
Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 12/11/2014 at 11:22am
I thought you were going to say that an angel gets his wings. ------------- Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
Posted By: wturber
Date Posted: 12/11/2014 at 12:16pm
Excellent! That sure looks like a pretty likely explanation and explains the camphor smell nicely. ------------- Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
Posted By: JimT
Date Posted: 12/11/2014 at 1:04pm
I did. Really, nothing special, just a regular smell of plastic... but my sense of smell lately is not as good as it used to be  ------------- Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please... |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 12/11/2014 at 3:29pm
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I agree with the others that Chinese seamed balls almost certainly have some cellulose. They should not be approved by ITTF as plastic balls, given their previous claims about a "worldwide ban on celluloid production". Whatever they are adding to it isn't working. XSF and NP40+ are clearly quite distinct materials with very different behavior. The plastic looks different, smells different, breaks differently, and plays differently (and those two are quite different from each other but both are quite good). |
Posted By: wturber
Date Posted: 12/11/2014 at 3:48pm
Cellulose and Celluloid are two different things. If they are using the plastic described in the patent, then they aren't using or mixing in celluloid like I theorized. It is a different plastic. It is primarily a mix of cellulose acetate fibers and camphor. Note 1: The patent posted speaks to how environmentally friendly their plastic is, but says nothing about the environmental impact of making cellulose diacetate to begin with. Note 2: Apparently it has been long known that camphor can be a plasticizer for diacetate. http://www.freepatentsonline.com/2109593.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.freepatentsonline.com/2109593.html ------------- Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 12/11/2014 at 4:07pm
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Oops, meant to write celluloid. I am aware of the difference! But it always pays to go to the patent. So it probably has no celluloid at all. (I still don't think the solvent was quite like camphor, but then again....). In any case, the plastics in XSF and NP40+ seem distinctly different (and also from each other). |
Posted By: wturber
Date Posted: 12/11/2014 at 4:42pm
And celluloid or not, the plastics in the Chinese balls simply aren't doing the job well enough. The balls are distorting and breaking. Compared to celluloid, XSF and NP40+, they are clearly inferior products. ------------- Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
Posted By: tazdevil
Date Posted: 12/11/2014 at 5:46pm
There is a recent articles comparing some of the popular brands in China (the XSF they used is the first edition, not the sports edition).  |
Posted By: Jeff(ATTC)
Date Posted: 01/21/2015 at 5:44pm
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I recently bought a box of Yinhe 40+ from tabletennisonly.com. These balls are definitely more playable than the Chinese seemed variety. Everything that PPH reported is the same for me. The balls are very round and do not wobble when spun on the table. Bounce is consistent. Much more playable than DHS, Nittaku SHA, Tibhar, Donic varieties. Biggest thing to adjust to is that they jump up a little more than celluloid - just as everyone else has reported. Will report back after hitting with it for a while to see if a "smoother ball" plays any different. ------------- Bty Jun Mizutani ZLC FH: D80 BH: D05 |
Posted By: PingPongHolic10
Date Posted: 01/21/2015 at 10:43pm
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Unfortunately, our rec centers have been breaking the Yinhe Seamless balls in the same rate as celluloid recently. It's same as reported by other members that the breaks come from hitting the sides of the rackets. & never a hard hit against metal barriers, & lockers... Also been reported slightly wobbly balls in the boxes=(. ------------- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55790&KW=&title=fs-ft-2014-inventory-clearancecpenspro-releases" rel="nofollow - My FS/FT Member of Yinhe,OSP & Nexy Clan |
Posted By: Jeff(ATTC)
Date Posted: 01/22/2015 at 12:49pm
------------- Bty Jun Mizutani ZLC FH: D80 BH: D05 |
Posted By: j-bo
Date Posted: 01/22/2015 at 11:09pm
You must have gorilla players. I gave out 12 Yinhe's..2 broke out of about 30 hours of play so far. One on a smash against the edge of table and one just out of the blue. None of the balls have any wobble. Although, these are only 2 boxes, and probably not the quantity of your club. We are all waiting to see whose ball will break next. I prefer these over celluloid. Never thought I'd say that! |
Posted By: PingPongHolic10
Date Posted: 01/22/2015 at 11:51pm
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[/QUOTE]It still seems to be an improvement over the DHS, SHA, Tibhar etc. balls! [/QUOTE] You are right Jeff! I hate the crazy bounces of the DHS, SHA & DF balls. Yinhe balls are for sure better than most in the market so far, consistent bounce.
And we are not talking about attempted smashes that hit the edge of their rackets=S I still get a few that would last me at least 1 week=) ------------- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55790&KW=&title=fs-ft-2014-inventory-clearancecpenspro-releases" rel="nofollow - My FS/FT Member of Yinhe,OSP & Nexy Clan |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 01/23/2015 at 3:18pm
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Yes, the slowly developing groundswell continues and I am glad to see it. If you have tried plastic balls and think they suck you are almost certainly right if you have only tried a ball with seams. Seamless balls (XSF, Yinhe, etc., all made by XSF factory) are ON AVERAGE, rounder, more durable, and cheaper than all other plastic balls, and their bounce and play qualities are better than any other plastic ball (and I would personally include the Nittaku Premium Japan 40+). I actually prefer them to celluloid, but some may not go that far. Try just one box and you will see it for yourself. Make sure it is an ITTF approved ball. Maybe then more tournament directors will adopt them. Cheaper and better. Should be an easy choice. |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 01/23/2015 at 4:00pm
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Make sure it is an ITTF approved ball. The wobble on the unapproved seamless balls is very annoying. ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: Jeff(ATTC)
Date Posted: 01/23/2015 at 5:56pm
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From last night's play, I noticed that players that like to use side-spin really liked the balls. From my end they kicked more than celluloid... ------------- Bty Jun Mizutani ZLC FH: D80 BH: D05 |
Posted By: igorponger
Date Posted: 01/23/2015 at 6:57pm
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CELLULOID STILL WELL AND ALIVE Double Fish *** celuloid is now on sale $0.45 a piece from a Russian local trader. The most popular ball brand with our domestic folks so far. 40 DF*** all-time most reputable celuloid creature for lasting hours and hours undamadged. The ball still available from a DF china factory branch in plenty. People still prefer the celuloid far better., No decrease of celuloid stock and supply is supposed so far. The usual celuloid forming machinery is still working on and on, at full producive capacity . Why do factories keep up production of balls of celuloid as much as before? They still go on forming balls in full swing with celuloid. Why so? Is Sharara has got the idea to revert back to the regular celluloid material some later day ? who knows... |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 01/23/2015 at 8:09pm
Yes, they do that, kick to the side more. Also, on pushes, they tend to stand up a bit more. It's almost as if with larger balls with good bounce, some of the energy on the spin causes the ball to jump when it hits the table, but then less spin remains on the ball when it hits the opponent's racket. I don't know if that is what is really happening but that is how it seems. Or maybe it is the surface texture of the ball, which is quite rough with the seamless balls. |
Posted By: Believer
Date Posted: 01/25/2015 at 6:05pm
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Just had a session with a friend and we played between DF plastic balls and the XSF balls. We both noticed that the DF seemed balls maintain similar spins like the regular celluloid balls, but the ball loose speed faster than the regular balls. The XSF balls bounce the closer to the regular balls and it doesn't loose speed like the DF balls. But the XSF balls don't maintain the spin as much. So the balls it relatively easier to block and loop to loop is similar to regular balls minus the spins. If ITTF's goal is to have more rallies, then the seamless XSF balls should be used. But so far, we have more tournaments (well at least in the US) that use the seemed plastic balls then seemless. But the seemed balls break so easily. We will see how this play out in the end... |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 01/25/2015 at 6:16pm
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None of the plastic balls maintain the spin as long as they are larger. My suspicion is that the DF ball is slightly smaller than the other balls, but it is incredibly slow. Not sure how they achieved that. Maybe its a weight issue. I play better with it than with DHS but for most people I know, it is the reverse. ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: Believer
Date Posted: 01/25/2015 at 9:39pm
| Perhaps your Big Dipper which can generate good spin.. :) |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 01/25/2015 at 9:51pm
Nice one - this was even before big Dipper though. The only players I hated using it against were defenders - they had forever to get to the ball and tested my patience. In general, the DFish ball teaches patience. The DHS ball could, but it bounces too low so the ball goes through the table and that can cause problems for certain kinds of defensive players. Both balls are hard to smash. For smashing, the XSF ball is king. ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: Jeff(ATTC)
Date Posted: 01/26/2015 at 12:06pm
------------- Bty Jun Mizutani ZLC FH: D80 BH: D05 |
Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 01/26/2015 at 12:22pm
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I think they do play better as the grit wears off and they get lighter. ------------- Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
Posted By: Jeff(ATTC)
Date Posted: 01/26/2015 at 12:32pm
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Thanks cole, I only have ~3-4 playing hours on these Yinhe balls. ------------- Bty Jun Mizutani ZLC FH: D80 BH: D05 |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 01/26/2015 at 2:09pm
Hmm. I kind of like them no matter what. I will compare tomorrow night a more worn one with a new one. They are certainly quite gritty when new. |
Posted By: Believer
Date Posted: 01/26/2015 at 6:06pm
| NL, I agree with you when it comes to smashing. The XSF is better. DF balls seem to be more spiny so looping will be a better shots for these seemed balls. |
Posted By: Jeff(ATTC)
Date Posted: 01/27/2015 at 1:57pm
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After ~6 hours hitting with the Yinhe balls, I noticed that they don't jump up as much. Bounce is still very consistent. ------------- Bty Jun Mizutani ZLC FH: D80 BH: D05 |
Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 01/28/2015 at 12:04pm
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if I go to a tournament using plastic balls, I will try to find the most used one....opposite of tennis I guess ------------- Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 01/28/2015 at 12:51pm
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I had a chance to check this out too. Actually, i also think they are a bit better after a couple of hours use. |
Posted By: j-bo
Date Posted: 01/28/2015 at 2:29pm
I agree. |
Posted By: stevenjlyang
Date Posted: 01/30/2015 at 1:21am
| XSF seamless Plastic Ball is also better. |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 01/31/2015 at 2:35am
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Actually my experiments were done on XSF (where I conclude that it is better after an hour or so). |
Posted By: stevenjlyang
Date Posted: 02/02/2015 at 5:45am
| Actually, seamless ball is better than seamed ball by plastic. |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 02/02/2015 at 11:23am
Definitely. |
Posted By: hookumsnivy
Date Posted: 02/11/2015 at 1:40pm
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Broke my first YinHe ball yesterday (I was using celluloid for probably a month in between my last post on the topic, due to a tournament using celluloid) during practice. To be fair, 1 other broke early on when I visited the Westchester club and let one of the juniors try it and apparently he hit the edge of the blade and it bit the dust. The 1 we broke yesterday did not happen on an edge ball, but it had a lot of wear and tear on it. In fact earlier in the practice session my practice partner noticed something funny about the ball. Part of the ball wasn't perfectly smooth anymore. When looking at it, it gave the impression of there being a partial seam, though clearly it didn't have 1. It's possible we caused some damage on an edge ball earlier in the night. The way it finally broke was very different than celluloid in that there was absolutely no question it was broken. It hit the table, and you immediately heard a difference and it didn't bounce right. There was a large obvious crack. We opened it up to check it out and what looked like a seam could be seen from the inside as well. It's like it was crack that didn't appear on the inner or outer surface but was still there. Keep in mind, once it cracked, I opened it up to take a good look. Outside of the ball. The crack is obvious but if you look closely (hard to see in this picture), you can see 2 lighter color lines on the ball. One almost horizontal and 1 diagonal: http://s287.photobucket.com/user/hookumsnivy/media/OutsideYinHe_zpsa5532132.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Inside of the ball. This picture is much more clear. The crack once again is very obvious, but now so are the 2 lines below it that aren't exactly cracks (ignore the line that's to the left of the crack, it didn't exist before it broke): http://s287.photobucket.com/user/hookumsnivy/media/InsideYinHe_zps0ea7dcb1.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">
 |