Price of celluloid balls
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Topic: Price of celluloid balls
Posted By: W0LovePP
Subject: Price of celluloid balls
Date Posted: 10/28/2014 at 4:42pm
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With plastic balls coming, will the price of celluloid balls go up soon? ------------- Yasaka Galaxya Butterfly Amultart SI |
Replies:
Posted By: ttman
Date Posted: 10/28/2014 at 4:54pm
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I'm selling 40 nittaku 3 star premium celluloid for $50 shipped if you want them .... ------------- |
Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 10/28/2014 at 4:55pm
======================= No. The price of cellular balls will go DOWN. ------------- skip3119 |
W0LovePP wrote:Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 10/28/2014 at 5:01pm
====================== This pretty much tells the OPer that the price of cellular ball is going down. ------------- skip3119 |
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 10/28/2014 at 5:10pm
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Celluloid balls will go up in value once they become collectibles and find a place in the museums. I still have a brand-new 38mm TSP *** ball sitting somewhere. I wonder how much it's worth. ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
Posted By: DreiZ
Date Posted: 10/28/2014 at 8:08pm
... best I can give you is $0.50! ------------- Main: Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm Chopper: Stratus Power Defense 85g FH: Hybrid K3 max BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm USATT: 1725 |
Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 10/28/2014 at 8:33pm
If you're going to pay as much as .50 you should make him pay for shipping and insurance. |
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 10/28/2014 at 9:38pm
 ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/28/2014 at 9:54pm
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At some point they will be giving them away. |
Posted By: Mastermind
Date Posted: 10/28/2014 at 10:59pm
In my humble estimation, the demand for plastic balls is very very negligible beyond the small group of players who play internationally. And it will stay so, unless some people go against the players interests and ban celluloid balls. I have reasons to believe that this is not going to happen. So, there is practically no connection between plastic balls and the price of celluloid balls. |
Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 10/28/2014 at 11:25pm
I don't know where you get your information. I play in 3 Northern California clubs regularly. Two of the clubs have already made the switch to plastic and the other club will be switching in two weeks. Almost everyone that posts on this forum is in the process of making the switch, which would seem to move us beyond the small group you describe. I'm not sure what you motive is, but it seems very irrational. |
Posted By: lineup32
Date Posted: 10/28/2014 at 11:55pm
| I agree, little demand for plastic outside selected tournaments but the bulk of players and clubs are happy to keep the status quo at least for now. Last weekend Concord had its Junior tournament and 77 juniors came and played with the 40. One club is talking about having 40+ for table 1 &2 at its weekly RR but using the current 40 for the rest of the players, this club usually has 50 to 70 players attend so they get a big mixture of players. Its the new TT normal.... |
Posted By: LUCKYLOOP
Date Posted: 10/29/2014 at 12:21am
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No Clubs in my metro are playing yet with the Plastic ball. All city leagues run through April 2015 will be using the Cell balls. ------------- Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0 Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX |
Posted By: cheondo
Date Posted: 10/29/2014 at 12:26am
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We must OBEY our ITTF masters and use plastic balls. So what if they play like crap and are really expensive. And so what if 90% or more of us on this forum will never play international events. ------------- Primorac Carbon + P7 Feedback http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=70427&title=feedback-cheondo |
Posted By: vanjr
Date Posted: 10/29/2014 at 8:49am
Its not the 7000 USATT players that are being talked about. It is the 7 million basement pong players that will eat up the celluloid stock with time. Admittedly the active USATT members use more balls, but that is 3 orders of magnitude difference. |
Posted By: lineup32
Date Posted: 10/29/2014 at 9:54am
what clubs in Northern Calif that sponsor weekly RR events have switched to plastic?
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Posted By: kuifje
Date Posted: 10/29/2014 at 10:35am
In the UK, it seems likely that local leagues will follow Table Tennis England's guidelines, and thus most or all clubs will switch to plastic next year. So not a negligible group of players - but virtually all competitive players. Officially, the choice is free now, but as far as I am aware most local leagues stick to celluloid for now.
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Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 10/29/2014 at 11:43am
=========================================== +1 I thought our club (Charlotte, NC) was behind the curve and kept playing celluloid ball - that was until last week. Then the club bought a lot of plastic balls and announced that starting this week, we will use the plastic balls for the weekly League Play. Our club sells the plastic balls at cost, so many members have bought them. So, we are no longer behind the curve. Our club has just switched to the plastic balls. *** Our club does not have any player who plays ITTF sanctioned events. Yet, we just switched to the plastic balls.
------------- skip3119 |
Posted By: Mastermind
Date Posted: 10/29/2014 at 11:44am
Your "likely" has nothing to do with reality and should be changed to "unlikely", wich also follows from your own comment. There are "guidelines" which people do not follow when they have a free choice. This means that plastic failed already. |
Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 10/29/2014 at 11:45am
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[/QUOTE] what clubs in Northern Calif that sponsor weekly RR events have switched to plastic? [/QUOTE]The Modesto and Sonora clubs have already switched to plastic and the Folsom club will switch on the 9th. |
Posted By: kuifje
Date Posted: 10/29/2014 at 12:29pm
No idea why you don't believe what I write. Do you play in the UK? If you were, and read the communications from the ETTA, you would know better. My term "guidelines" was probably not appropriate. Let me rephrase, or actually, read the quote below which is from the ETTA website. Please pay attention to the last sentence, which is perfectly clear. From 1 July 2015 ALL competitive play in the UK will be with the plastic ball - it is mandatory. "Apart from the above events, those responsible for all other aspects of Competitive Table Tennis (as defined in the Regulations) will be able to choose either celluloid or plastic balls until July 1, 2015 when use of the plastic ball will become mandatory for all Competitive Table Tennis in England." (source: http://tabletennisengland.co.uk/news/plastic-ball-table-tennis-england-update/) |
Posted By: Mastermind
Date Posted: 10/29/2014 at 12:53pm
To me it means that corrupt bureaucrats have gone against both the TT rules and the players interest to impose the plastic crap on them. In the US the plastic promoters seem to go throuhg private club owners. Where the people have a choice, they stick to celluloid balls, with very few exceptions. |
Posted By: Mastermind
Date Posted: 10/29/2014 at 12:55pm
Right, do not use misleading terms and you will not wonder why someone does not believe you. |
Posted By: Mastermind
Date Posted: 10/29/2014 at 1:03pm
Now I have opened the link and see that you withheld something important: "Editor’s note: It is a decision for leagues which ball will be used. Clubs then abide by that decision." So, the leagues will have a free choice. It will not be mandatory for leagues. The bureaucrats are trying however to influence that through imposing plastic at tournaments, that is clear. |
Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 10/29/2014 at 1:17pm
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40 mm celluloid balls will go through the same fate as 38 mm balls. But this time, the process will likely take a bit longer. ------------- skip3119 |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 10/29/2014 at 1:25pm
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Does it make sense that Mastermind continually attacks the views of players who are largely reporting what is going on in their countries first and? ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: Mastermind
Date Posted: 10/29/2014 at 1:33pm
I suggest you stop your ad hominem attacks. Withholding an important part of information is not a "view", it is actually not far away from lying. |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 10/29/2014 at 1:47pm
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"withholding" sounds pretty accusatory. There is tacit knowledge people have that you cannot have as an outsider. Please understand this. It is that knowledge and not written laws driving them. ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/29/2014 at 2:08pm
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Mastermind. This is an official warning. The way you are dealing with forum members here who are reporting as best they can the situation in their areas is not acceptable. Please stop. You have made your point repeatedly. We get it. |
Posted By: lineup32
Date Posted: 10/29/2014 at 2:09pm
what clubs in Northern Calif that sponsor weekly RR events have switched to plastic? [/QUOTE]The Modesto and Sonora clubs have already switched to plastic and the Folsom club will switch on the 9th. [/QUOTE] Folsom which is the larger club in your area will not switch until Nov. Modesto and sonora both are under the folsom internet banner. Basically your statement that three clubs have switched to plastic is not correct. I don't care whether a club or league moves to plastic as the new TT normal will be a mixture of old along with a variety of seamed and seamless plastic balls. It makes sense that the Sonora/Modesto move to plastic which supports the Folsom league RR I wish that would be true with most clubs here in the Bay area but chances are very slim to non at all. I have met numerous players from your area at one or several sites locally at Alameda, Berk or Concord but in the in the future when your local players come down to the Bay area for a RR they most likely will not play with a Double Fish 40+ as each local club will probably use different balls including the the current 40C but that will be the new TT normal.
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Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/29/2014 at 2:23pm
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One thing that has been accurately pointed out is that nobody wanted to switch to plastic balls. Among people who have tried them opinions vary. Some people completely hate and reject them (usual reaction first time they are used, mine for sure). With time some people get used to them and can be said to at least tolerate them (a lot of people I know). Most of these people would still prefer celluloid and don't believe any of the explanations given for the switch but they have gotten used to the "new normal". There are a few people who actually in time say they like them better than celluloid (a few people have said so on this forum for example, and a 2500 level player at my club told me he thinks they give him a competitive advantage so he likes them). For me it depends strongly on which plastic ball we are talking about. I fall somewhere halfway between hate and tolerate for Chinese seamed ones I have seen so far (all of which were made in June). I definitely tolerate a good XSF ball and can enjoy playing. I like a Nittaku Premium Japan 40+ as much as celluloid from a pure playing quality perspective, but of course they are expensive and almost impossible to buy for the moment. I have the strong impression that 40+ balls increase rubber wear. |
Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 10/29/2014 at 3:29pm
The Modesto and Sonora clubs have already switched to plastic and the Folsom club will switch on the 9th. [/QUOTE] Folsom which is the larger club in your area will not switch until Nov. Modesto and sonora both are under the folsom internet banner. Basically your statement that three clubs have switched to plastic is not correct. I don't care whether a club or league moves to plastic as the new TT normal will be a mixture of old along with a variety of seamed and seamless plastic balls. It makes sense that the Sonora/Modesto move to plastic which supports the Folsom league RR [/QUOTE]
I'm not sure how or why you have tied the Modesto/Sonora clubs to the Folsom club. Do you think I'm mistaken and that the Modesto/Sonora clubs have not switched? We do not have any affiliation with the Folsom club. I go to the Folsom club about 15 times a year for their Sunday round robins. There are many clubs larger and closer to Modesto than the Folsom club. I also go to the Top Spin club in San Jose, but since I don't know what they are doing with plastic I didn't report what they're using, although since many of their players are going to the Nationals I would assume many of them are using the plastic ball along with other bay area clubs. Why is it that you and mastermind seem to know what we like and what we are using more than we do. I'm fine with you not liking the plastic and not using it, but I wonder why you're bothered by my liking the ball and using it. |
Posted By: lineup32
Date Posted: 10/29/2014 at 3:46pm
Folsom which is the larger club in your area will not switch until Nov. Modesto and sonora both are under the folsom internet banner. Basically your statement that three clubs have switched to plastic is not correct. I don't care whether a club or league moves to plastic as the new TT normal will be a mixture of old along with a variety of seamed and seamless plastic balls. It makes sense that the Sonora/Modesto move to plastic which supports the Folsom league RR [/QUOTE] [/QUOTE]I'm not sure how or why you have tied the Modesto/Sonora clubs to the Folsom club. Do you think I'm mistaken and that the Modesto/Sonora clubs have not switched? We do not have any affiliation with the Folsom club. I go to the Folsom club about 15 times a year for their Sunday round robins. There are many clubs larger and closer to Modesto than the Folsom club. I also go to the Top Spin club in San Jose, but since I don't know what they are doing with plastic I didn't report what they're using, although since many of their players are going to the Nationals I would assume many of them are using the plastic ball along with other bay area clubs. Why is it that you and mastermind seem to know what we like and what we are using more than we do. I'm fine with you not liking the plastic and not using it, but I wonder why you're bothered by my liking the ball and using it. Notice how similar these pages appear actually the same, so a reasonable person would expect these clubs to be attached at the hip: maybe U should get your story straight, I never said what U like, in fact I could care less what U like or dislike. But your prior statement about 3 clubs already switched over to plastic was incorrect.
link to Folsom club:http://www.folsomtt.com/# link to Modesto club: http://www.folsomtt.com/index.php/m-sep-resources/m-clubs/37-modesto-table-tennis-club link to Sonora club:http://www.folsomtt.com/index.php/m-sep-resources/m-clubs/46-sonora-table-tennis-club |
Posted By: kuifje
Date Posted: 10/29/2014 at 4:04pm
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Mastermind has a "funny" way of communicating, and clearly has his own agenda. I wrote about what's going to happen in England, i.e. virtually all clubs/local leagues will switch to plastic next year, and mastermind had an "interesting" response to that. Indeed it is perhaps not mandatory for local leagues, but all other competitions will switch, and that includes not only tournaments, but also county matches and British league. So of course local leagues will follow suit and switch. I am not really bothered about the switch to plastic, I've played with the ones from DF, and they play ok. A bit different indeed, but not dramatically so. And coming back to the OP, the price of celluloid is, at least in the UK, likely to go down nearer the date of the switch, ie July 2015. |
Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 10/29/2014 at 4:42pm
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[QUOTE) Notice how similar these pages appear actually the same, so a reasonable person would expect these clubs to be attached at the hip: maybe U should get your story straight, I never said what U like, in fact I could care less what U like or dislike. But your prior statement about 3 clubs already switched over to plastic was incorrect. [/QUOTE]link to Folsom club:http://www.folsomtt.com/# link to Modesto club: http://www.folsomtt.com/index.php/m-sep-resources/m-clubs/37-modesto-table-tennis-club link to Sonora club:http://www.folsomtt.com/index.php/m-sep-resources/m-clubs/46-sonora-table-tennis-club Wow, you really have to stretch to make your pointless point. The Folsom website lists over 30 Northern California clubs as places to play. Are all these clubs under the Folsom club? To my knowledge no Folsom player has ever been to the Modesto club and only two have been to the Sonora club (about 10 years ago) because they were working in the area. My statement has always been correct. The Modesto club plays with the plastic ball. Sonora club plays with the plastic ball. The Folsom club will switch to the plastic ball on November 9th. These three clubs are not in anyway connected to each other. |
Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 10/29/2014 at 5:56pm
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Money saving idea: If you play celluloid ball and want to buy some more, make it known to your club members that you want to buy some if anyone is willing to sell it cheap. That may save you some money. I still have a lot of Nittaku 3-star balls (regular, not premium), I paid for about $1.50 a ball, but will be glad to sell it at $1.00 a piece. (I don't think I can sell any in our club.) Our club just announced: "New plastic Nittaku SHA 40+ balls for league play." I can see the writing on the wall. I don't think I can sell any of my celluloid ball in our club. Many club members have already bought the SHA 40+ plastic balls from our club. (I think our club has ordered and received hundreds of the plastic balls and sells them to the club members at cost). ------------- skip3119 |
Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 10/30/2014 at 3:37am
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I tried to get the non tournament players at the club to use up the celluloid balls before using the poly balls. They won't use them. |
Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 10/30/2014 at 11:03am
========================================== I guess those players still having celluloid balls are willing to sell them below cost. --------------------------------------- Some clubs' switching to the plastic ball may be a gradual process, but for us it was sudden. One announcement, the demand for the celluloid balls, in our club, just dropped to zero. ------------- skip3119 |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 10/30/2014 at 11:15am
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Get the smartest guy in the forum to buy them all - he will be a millionaire when the come back he predicts for celluloid takes place. ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: Mastermind
Date Posted: 10/30/2014 at 2:26pm
If you mean me, I do not predict, I see the facts and the trend. From the present perspective I estimate the possibility that celluloid balls will be banned by the ITTF as fairly unlikely, given the feedback. But still technically possible. If celluloid balls are not banned, we will have essentially the present situation at worst, in the countries with the well developed league system anyway, where the plastic ball is neglected by the vast majority. Then, in a year or so I believe the number of international tournaments using plastic will be reduced gradually, or at least the organizers will have the right to choose the ball (as they by the have on paper now). |
Posted By: racquetsforsale
Date Posted: 10/30/2014 at 2:51pm
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Do equipment manufacturers have an incentive to stop making celluloid balls? I take issue with how equipment regulations put forth by the ITTF change the way I experience the game and potentially reduce my enjoyment of playing and watching it. If equipment manufacturers play along with the ITTF as they have been, then it seems inevitable that everyone has to eventually switch. I wish we can hold out indefinitely --- playing with the celluloid ball or even playing with the old 38mm ball, but when they stop making them, and our reserves dry out, we have no choice but to switch. Perhaps if the general playing public started a boycott, forcing the manufacturers to continue making the celluloid ball. I wonder. |
Posted By: 1dennistt
Date Posted: 10/30/2014 at 2:57pm
As far as I know our club (as of 2 weeks ago) is still using the old ball. No pressure so far to make the change...that will change when tournaments begin to use the new ball I suspect. So the change will probably come as some point. I have hit with a few different balls, and I admit I'm not eager to make the change at this point in time. I'm also not preparing for any competition at this time  , so I don't feel any pressure to change (yet). Once I decide to jump back into competitive mode, it will depend on which ball is being used I suppose.------------- Donic Waldner World Champion 1989 ZLC (Inner), Donic BlueStorm Pro (Red) Max, ????? (Black) 1.8 mm) |
Posted By: Mastermind
Date Posted: 10/30/2014 at 3:08pm
Those are 2 different things, since the 38mm ball is banned and the celluloid ball is not banned. |
Posted By: racquetsforsale
Date Posted: 10/30/2014 at 3:46pm
I don't compete in ITTF sanctioned tournaments. The ITTF shouldn't have the power to limit equipment choices available to recreational players. I believe amateur tournaments should not have to abide by ITTF equipment regulations at all. My point is, I and others like me can resist all we want, but when the manufacturers stop making the celluloid ball, like I'm assuming they have stopped making the 38 mm ball, and we can no longer buy celluloid balls on the market, then we would have no choice but to switch. My question is do manufacturers have enough financial incentives to maintain production of the celluloid ball? |
Posted By: Mastermind
Date Posted: 10/30/2014 at 4:02pm
In my understanding, manufacturer stopped making the 38 mm ball because the demand for it became close to zero after it was banned by the ITTF and consequently by the national Associations in their internal rules. Why continue making 38 mm ball if practically nobody buys it? This is a purely economic issue. The situation with celluloid/plastic is completely different now, as it can be seen in the countries with the well developed league system. The highest league(s) and some tournaments go plastic, but the vast majority playing mostly in leagues stick to celluloid. They continue buying celluloid balls and this is exactly the financial incentive for manufacturers. |
Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 10/30/2014 at 6:18pm
   ------------- Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc |
Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 10/30/2014 at 6:54pm
The ITTF has not put forth any regulations that would limit what ball you play with. You and your friends can pick whatever ball you want. The ITTF doesn't care. The manufacturer's don't even care what ball you use. If enough people want to continue using the celluloid ball, they will continue to be made. If there isn't a market for celluloid balls, they won't be made. It's really that simple. My feeling is that there is very little difference in the balls. If the plastic balls are more durable (and they appear to be) it would make economic sense that most players would switch to plastic. |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 10/30/2014 at 7:26pm
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A few correction or additions. Seamed Chinese plastic balls so far have had durability problems, unless they have fixed that in the last couple of months (which I personally doubt). Seamless Chinese do not have that problem, at least if you get an ITTF approved one in March ore more recently. The various types of balls have quite different bounce heights that give you something like four distinctly different playing experiences: celluloid; seamed Chinese; seamless Chinese; Nittaku Premium Japan. These differences are greater than we ever had with celluloid. Someone could like one of the plastic balls and absolutely hate another type. (Well, me for example). Everybody likes celluloid because you know what you are going to get and how to play with them. All plastic balls are slower and have less spin than celluloid. That is not very hard to get used to. But the differences in their bounce are quite extreme. If you are not going to play a lot of competitions that use plastic, there is no obvious reason to buy them. |
Posted By: racquetsforsale
Date Posted: 10/30/2014 at 7:36pm
Do you mean that the switch to the 40mm ball and in turn the death of the 38mm ball was driven purely by consumer demand? Do you mean that had the 40mm ball been first introduced by manufacturers as a novel alternative, most non-professional players would have eventually come to prefer it over the 38mm ball anyways? Which was the cause and which the effect: people decided to switch to the 40mm ball, demand for the 38mm ball decreased, manufacturers stopped making them; or manufactures stopped making the 38mm ball and people was forced to switch? If it's the former, why did people who are non-professional players feel the need to switch? |
Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 10/30/2014 at 8:14pm
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[/QUOTE] Do you mean that the switch to the 40mm ball and in turn the death of the 38mm ball was driven purely by consumer demand? Do you mean that had the 40mm ball been first introduced by manufacturers as a novel alternative, most non-professional players would have eventually come to prefer it over the 38mm ball anyways? Which was the cause and which the effect: people decided to switch to the 40mm ball, demand for the 38mm ball decreased, manufacturers stopped making them; or manufactures stopped making the 38mm ball and people was forced to switch? If it's the former, why did people who are non-professional players feel the need to switch?[/QUOTE] I have no idea why the non-professional players switched to the 40mm ball. But they quit buying the 38's so production stopped on the 38's. If manufacturer's felt there would have been a continued demand for the 38's production would have continued. I suspect that in any sport, if the pros switch to a different type of equipment, the masses will follow. I still have my Jack Kramer wooden tennis racket, but I doubt the pros will switch back to wooden rackets. |
Posted By: Mastermind
Date Posted: 10/30/2014 at 8:26pm
It was not quite so that people who were non-professional players felt the need to switch. The rules were changed, therefore unlike in the present situation both tournaments and the leagues switched to the 40mm ball. It was like changing a law in a country. They had to switch  . Or they could "emigrate", but unfortunately there was no other international TT Federation and all the national association were members of the one and only ITTF.Now the TT rules regarding balls are the same as 10 years ago, both celluloid and "similar plastic" are legal. They only chose plastic for some international and national events (in violation of the existing rules, in my opinion). This is the difference. |
Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 10/30/2014 at 8:34pm
I do not ever recall seeing any rule or law requiring clubs or leagues switch from the 38 to 40mm ball. I could have missed the rule/law change, if so, will you please show it to me. |
Posted By: racquetsforsale
Date Posted: 10/30/2014 at 9:28pm
Why did non-professional tournaments and leagues feel the need to switch? They don't have to answer to the ITTF right? For people who are not playing towards entering ITTF tournaments/turning pro (and that's what, 99% of the playing population in the world?), why should they give a crap what the ITTF says? |
Posted By: Mastermind
Date Posted: 10/30/2014 at 9:36pm
Usually at tournaments and league competitions the ITTF rules of the game (racket, ball, table, service, counting etc) are mandatory as universal rules, it is not so that every league has its own ones. There are special cases, but they are rare exceptions. If the ITTF change the rules, they are followed. This can change, however, if they ban celluloid balls. It is well possible that it will be perceived as too much, and I have such a feeling that they know that. |
Posted By: Mastermind
Date Posted: 10/30/2014 at 9:47pm
I actually did not say they did, I meant they had to. At the moment the ITTF rules are universal, international, so the change in leagues happens automatically, with some exceptions. The whole thing is organized this way. National Associations follow the ITTF, local federations follow their national Associations and so on. People want to have universal rules, made by an international body. This is not a bad idea at all, unless this international body gets corrupt and starts sucking money out the player's pockets through equipment rule changes. |
Posted By: hithithit
Date Posted: 10/31/2014 at 12:26am
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ITTF have not banned celluloid balls. They have only banned the use of celluloid balls in ITTF sanctioned events. So, there are no reasons to stop using celluloid balls in non-ITTF sanctioned events. |
Posted By: JimT
Date Posted: 10/31/2014 at 4:07pm
I would not even call this a ban. They simply said that the ITTF events will start exclusively using these brands/plastic etc. When ITTF said a few years ago that they will use only DHS balls for ProTour events, you wouldn't call that a "ban on Nittaku" balls, right? Granted the analogy is not 100% but close enough  ------------- Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please... |
Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 11/02/2014 at 12:25pm
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The best plastic ball, according to what I have read here, is Nittau 3*** 40+ Premium. Paddlepalace will have it soon, but not now. However, the price is known: 12 balls for $33.95. http://www.paddlepalace.com/Nittaku-3-Star-PREMIUM-40-Balls/productinfo/BNAPR/" rel="nofollow - http://www.paddlepalace.com/Nittaku-3-Star-PREMIUM-40-Balls/productinfo/BNAPR/ ------------- skip3119 |
Posted By: roundrobin
Date Posted: 11/02/2014 at 2:48pm
I finally played with it last night. It played very similar to Nittaku Premium celluloid except a bit bigger and slower. For all practical purposes I'd say it behaves exactly how a 40+ sized celluloid ball would at the same weight of the old celluloid, so this new polyball will require the least change from all players. However, it is harder to spin due to size and the sound is more muted. All in all, I am glad we have this ball instead of all the other terrible versions out there. ------------- Current USATT Rating: 2181 Argentina National Team Member, 1985-1986. Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association. My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red |
Posted By: hithithit
Date Posted: 11/02/2014 at 3:52pm
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I still don't think the prices of the reputable brands' celluloid balls will drop any time soon, not until 2016 or close to it, by which time plastic balls should become more widely used and one would expect the precursor to that is better ball quality (e.g. Other brands' 3 star plastic balls becoming like the Nittaku Premium 40+ in quality). If anything, before 2016, I think the price of good reputable brands' celluloid balls might rise due to the inventory risks that stores now face in having to stock both the celluloid and plastic balls. Facts to think about, the recommended prices of celluloid balls in the newly released Japanese TSP catalogue for 2014-2015 remain unchanged. Further to this, in May / June, I received confirmation from a large manufacturer that they have no plans to stop producing celluloid balls. Note too, you will know when the market will start to phase out celluloid balls when you see manufacturers start phasing out established rubber and blade models with the 40+ models. Right now, they are introducing the 40+ models (think DHS, Nittaku, Stiga), with Nittaku being the front runner as if you haven't yet noticed, they have labelled how compatible their rubbers and blades are with the 40+ balls. Personally, I still don't see the need to abandon the celluloid balls because the plastic balls are still in the piloting phase. But if I were shopping for a new blade, I would go for a blade designed for the 40+ balls. Summary: 1) Prices of reputable brands' celluloid balls should not drop any time soon 2) Plastic balls are still in the piloting stage 3) 40+ designed blades are better for the long term 4) Celluloid balls will still be common for at least another year |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 11/02/2014 at 4:47pm
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Yes, that is a very good description of the Nittaku Premium 40+ Japan: It plays exactly like a celluloid ball would play if it had a diameter 0.4 mm larger. |
Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 11/03/2014 at 12:07pm
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I just talked to Paddle Palace and the Nittaku premium poly balls won't be shipped for a couple of more weeks. At what point do they go to plan B? A better question is, do they have a plan B? |
Posted By: roundrobin
Date Posted: 11/03/2014 at 4:48pm
I don't think it matters. The Nittaku Premium plastic ball plays extremely similar to Nittaku Premium celluloid (which is what some people say we should use for this Nationals). Players who want to do well at this Nationals should stick to Nittaku Premium celluloid until the Premium plastic is available. I don't even think there's a problem if most players who are used to the Nittaku Premium celluloid balls are forced to use Nittaku Premium plastic balls for the first time at the Nationals. They are that similar. ------------- Current USATT Rating: 2181 Argentina National Team Member, 1985-1986. Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association. My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red |
Posted By: Mastermind
Date Posted: 11/03/2014 at 5:53pm
This is something new. It would be interesting to know if they are actually made out of celluloid called by a different name. By the way, humble me predicted such a solution long ago . It would be nice if someone could make a video of both balls burning. A kind of a test.Anyway, what we can expect from a 40.2-40.4 mm celluloid ball of equal weight is bad durability. Someone said I believe on this forum that the durability issues were the reason for celluloid balls being made 39.6 mm instead of 40 mm. |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 11/03/2014 at 6:31pm
Not a bad plan now that I think about it some (training with Nittaku celluloid to prepare for Nittku Premium 40+). Still, it is not exactly like a celluloid because the ball is just a touch larger. It plays like an ever so slightly larger celluloid ball, which means it is pretty easy to accommodate. Nittaku says they are getting the material from a company called Toray Industries. I have no idea what it is but I'm not about to burn one of my 40+ Premium balls to find out. I have absolutely zero reason to believe it is celluloid, among other reasons because it doesn't look like celluloid. Anyone who sees the circular reasoning in a previous post (not RR's) should take it for what it's worth. (The reasoning goes like, "I predicted that this would be a solution, so that must be the solution, and so I will imply that this is the solution and pat myself on the back"). Update on durability of Nittaku Premium 40+. Better than Nittaku SHA. Not that different from celluloid so far, need more time and more balls to be certain. Two of the 2450 players in my club broke one this weekend after about 1.5 hr of play, but they sometimes do that with celluloid too. |