Why not try to spin heavy and deep once before hitting?

 

Why not try to set your body up for a cross court shot, then let ball come back into your effective strike zone some more and hit a loop drive down the line?

 

Why not try to learn how to serve really heavy, then learn how to serve dead with exact same motion and be ready to step in to finish?

Actually, the answer to this is very simple but to get to a point where you can actually do it requires a lot of hard training. 

You need to learn how to open vs underspin. Once you open with top spin vs underspin the opponent can only block - he cannot push back. (he can actually counter top spin or chop if he is a pure chopper, but this is more advanced)

Opening vs underspin consists of 4 shots. FH loop vs heavy underspin (opening loop), BH vs heavy underspin (opening loop), FH flick vs short pushes and BH flick vs short pushes.

Train with one of these guys. You serve with underspin, as heavy as you can - he pushes always to your FH long and you open (loop). Then same but he pushes long to your BH, then same but short push to FH and then to BH.

In each case the aim of the exercise is to open immediately and force a block. On the block the ball will have no or very light underspin. Your objective is then a control medium power loop which sometimes finishes the point but it's actual objective is to force another block. Finally after the next block a power loop with the aim to finish the point is normally the best option.

You serve with underspin to their BH,

they return mid to long push on your FH side,

you open (loop) across,

They block with their FH accross,

you play a loop drive with medium power again across.

Once again they block across,

then you power loop at close to your full power (but a loop not a smash) down the line.

this is only one example, there are many variations of when to play down the line or across, and when the push is to the BH or short for example.

The main objective at 1st is to never miss the opening loop. Once this is achieved then the rest of the exercise gains relevance.

This is a systematic approach which will make you better... other suggestions here that I have read so far may help you beat this or that particular player, but do not contribute much to your overall skill level.

Note:  I think table tennis players are weird, in general. Our sport has many nerds with unusual social skills. Yet, we find ways to make it work. I haven't come to blows yet, but close. ;-0

Thanks for the advice everyone.   And in reply to a lot of you: 

I never meant to call the players themselves weird, that'd be insulting.  I was simply referring to their play style.  Weird as in, it's not how most players play, not how coaches coach etc.

I guess you guys are right, I see these players giving 1900 players some trouble, too.  So it's not just me, which is good news, I guess.  I think I get frustrated after the first game because what's fun to me is hitting and looping, and I play TT for fun.  When I'm stuck on this slow weird game and I'm losing to it, maybe I mentally give up a bit.

Every time I mention ratings, people pull these statements out.  >.<  

I never meant to imply that I play near a certain level because of who I practice with..   I just wanted to say that I have plenty of experience playing with that level of player and that I can play matches and practice with them just fine.  To help you all understand what kind of advice to give me for this topic.  

Thanks again everybody.  I'll be at that club again next Thursday and I'll try and put my heart into the game and give 100% the whole way through.  I also need to practice patience and respect their game more (someone mentioned this).  

You learn to develop techniques and strategies to beat them. It's all part of the learning process. Enjoy!

Contra what some people have said here, tacky rubbers actually make playing "weird" players easier because they give you more spin manipulation options if you play actively and can read the spin.   And usually, that's once per rally if you open at the appropriate time with heavy topspin.  What usually happens is that most players who are used to being passive pushers want to play a low risk pushing rally, but that is exactly what plays into the strengths of the weird players, as such balls are slow, not powerful and easy to control or manipulate into weird spins and get popped up or pushed off the table.

When you loop against most of these weird players, they will *block*.  That is one of the secrets to beating them - they don't counter loops aggressively.  So if you loop controlled, heavy topspin, you know what to expect back and you can then improve how you manage the rally around that.  You can learn to drive the high balls rather than loop them with control, or you can move the loop around, or you can even push some balls as a variation.  But the biggest mistake is to engage in pushing rallies just for the sake of doing so (as opposed to pushing them around the table to set up your next shot).

Against weird players, the ball slows down.  Take advantage of it by opening with topspin.

Now, if they're good, they'll smash it down your throat. But that's like high level stuff. 

But I don't agree with whoever said that tacky rubbers are helpful. Tacky rubbers make whatever weird spin they put on the ball more dangerous to you. They also make lifting heavy underspin more difficult. A rubber like Tenergy, requires very little effort to lift backspin and very little effort to create a lot of topspin. Of course, any new gen rubber will do the same.

Well, this simply means you haven't learned to anticipate all that you can. Unorthodox strokes are irrelevant, since 80% of Americans have them! The key is learning to read ball spin, which comes with experience, concentration, and probably some coaching.

I said so and I assume by the statement, tacky meant grippy and/or sticky, including Chinese tacky, but not necessarily Chinese.  I thought the spin sensitivity of the rubber was what was being criticized and that Tenergy would also fall into the class of rubbers being criticized.

The spin sensitivity of Tenergy is what allows one to overpower spin as well as makes it spin reactive.  So if I scared of the ball and just touch it, Tenergy is the worst rubber in the world.  But when I am actually trying to do something with the ball, Tenergy is the best rubber in the world.  So I tell myself not to be afraid of the ball. I shouldn't rush into it, but just get to the ball on time and do a stroke, even a very short one vs just letting the ball react with my paddle.

But in most cases, the problem is deciding not to open and letting the player introduce his weird spins.

secondly If you can't beat them now then they are better than you, so learning, improving and having some strategies and playing them on a regular basis is only good for your advancement

and have some fun 

Junk rubbers like long pips or frictionless anti do NOT create weird spins but the spin you are getting should be very predictable as they reverse the spin on certain strokes.

i think Swift plays with people with inverted who just have weird strokes!!! 

I think Swift plays a lot of fishers/lobbers who rely on slow but tricky spinny returns! I think really take your time! Even Ma Lin and Hao Shui had trouble with M. Maze first few times….  

1. Do not set your feed until after the ball has bounced.  Just keep making little mini-steps even if you are not actually moving out of place.  This way you are more ready to make a move in case you did not set up in quite the right place.

2. Set up more to the Bh side of the ball than you think you need to for straight topspin.  For most people it is a lot easier to have to move to their Fh side before hitting the shot than adjusting to the Bh.

3. Set up with a slightly open stance instead of the usual side-on to table.  This allows you to use a cross-step move to go to the wide right if you need to.    If the ball jumps more to the Bh just move the back leg toward your backside (back and sideways).  The slight back movement gives you a little more time to adjust to the unexpected bounce.

 

Finally!  That style takes a lot of patience to play against and there are 2200+ players who play like that.  I can beat lower rated players who play like that and players around my level because  I have the power to hit through them, but higher rated players who play like that are "defenders" and the spin variation on the ball causes problems.

 

The timing advice I gave you above is the most critical part - make sure that your racket is close to the ball  and locked on before you accelerate.  If not, the ball will move and the racket angle will change and ruin your topspin oriented shot. Don't hit hard - do controlled shots (which doesn't mean weak shots).

 

The key is to realize that you will often be forced to rally and be consistent as 1 shot will never end the point.  That said, if you can make them move  (both in and out as well as left and right) and put enough spin on the ball to control them, you are in a much better position that if not.  But many of those players are legitimately good and will beat 2000+ players as well.

 

Slow light/heavy spin also works against those players who do not attack.  If you feed them pace, the ball comes back at you weird, but if they don't attack, you can mess up their timing by spinning the ball slowly as they don't control such balls well from far back either unless they are using pips.

 

The biggest mistake is to let the fact that you are missing those balls frustrate you. Those balls are only easy balls if you practice regularly against them.  But the problem is that no one (well, almost no one) practices regularly against supposedly easy balls (see Hao Shuai and Wang Hao vs. Michael Maze if you doubt this). If those balls were so easy, why do lobbing/fishing rallies often take more than one shot?

While we're on the topic, I'm noticing more and more that I'm simply not great at reading spins.  I miss service attacks a LOT because of this.  Plus when I'm playing these players, I feel like I'm doing everything right, but I can't read the spin so I hit off the table.

I know if I could read spin better my game would shoot up like crazy.  Any advice for getting better at this???

This is the hardest part of the game so if we all got better at it, our games would all shoot up like crazy.  There is no easy answer.  You have to watch your opponent's racket (direction and speed), listen to the sound at contact (which is why I hate opponents who audibly grunt while stroking) and read the flight of the ball and you can still get it wrong.  But when you look at your opponent's stroke, you then have to make the decision of whether to go against, continue or just use the spin your opponent sent you based on your read.

It's not about the spin per se.  It's about your approach to the ball and your mindset.  Whenever you use the phrase "hit off the table", it creates the idea that rather than try to spin a ball, you attacked it hard.  Focus on generating spin.  When you know what is on the ball, you can be more aggressive.  

What you really should be doing is repeating the same plays against these players and seeing how the points evolve.  The lack of topspin and pace challenges your timing and footwork if you mostly play topspin players.  We have a milder version of one of these players at my club and I played him all the way from when I was 1000 till today and I found that the key was how to set up the point.  Playing the same player all the time lets you adjust to that particular player so I can't say that such players still don't annoy me (I lost to one at the NA Teams last year), but they have taught me a lot about timing.

If these players do not attack anything except high balls, then why are you hitting their serves?  Just roll the serve over the net to the side they are weaker on and start the point from there.  After rolling a few of their serves, then you can then decide whether to be aggressive or not since the rolls will give you a better idea of what is on their serve.  Quick wrist action and spin contact are always the key.

Once a player backs up and is over 1800, you aren't going to win the point just because you hit the ball hard unless he has no defensive skills.  You will win the point because you put it where the opponent had problems receiving it and "hard" will be relative.  Hitting "hard" is effective when the opponent is close to the table so sometimes, playing balls short to bring them to the table is a necessary part of playing people who back up.

Some of these players are just good players with a particular style and could probably beat you in topspin rallies, but enjoy frustrating players.  Do realize this as well.

If they hit a ball that's not deep, that lands short or middle, drop it... drop it short and with side spin if you can... I'm a defender and the thing I hate the most is the guy who makes me come in and out, again and again.