Training at 4 years old
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Topic: Training at 4 years old
Posted By: connor
Subject: Training at 4 years old
Date Posted: 11/20/2014 at 2:02pm
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Training at 4 years old http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNBQI3WRJso" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNBQI3WRJso http://www.actuping.com/une-fillette-de-4-ans-lentrainement-avec-son-pere-video-23019.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.actuping.com/une-fillette-de-4-ans-lentrainement-avec-son-pere-video-23019.html ------------- connor |
Replies:
Posted By: V-Griper
Date Posted: 11/20/2014 at 2:48pm
That's soo cool!! She is super cute! You should build a deck so she is elevated to a normal height to the table like ZJK's father did. ------------- DHS 301 Xiom Vega 7pro FH/BH |
Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 11/20/2014 at 4:30pm
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You can have her stand on this: ------------- Trade feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787 |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 11/20/2014 at 4:33pm
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Wow, that is one talented little girl! And the little boy too! |
Posted By: chu_bun
Date Posted: 11/20/2014 at 6:15pm
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These are very gifted kids. All the kids I know did not possess this level of hand-eye coordination at that age. You can kind of see that their brains tell their hands to hit the ball, but by the time the signal reach the hands, the ball already flights by. ------------- Clipper Wood, Sanwei Gears FH, Sanwei T88-I BH. |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 11/20/2014 at 6:24pm
Agreed, and I have seen many little kids about this age or even older, 6-7, who just don't have that kind of hand-eye coordination. Also, these kids seem to have fun doing it top, which is the next big thing. |
chu_bun wrote:Posted By: Fehrplay
Date Posted: 11/22/2014 at 4:37pm
| Really talented! Reminds me of my first years as a table tennis player! |
Posted By: JKC
Date Posted: 11/22/2014 at 6:03pm
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Not gifted at all. Just lots of practice, hard work and lots of opportunities to practice and people around them willing to give time and effort to help them develop. Gifted to me would imply that this level was achieved without any real effort which I'm pretty sure it was not. More people would get further in life if they realised that people get out of things what they put in. Assuming someone is better at something than you because they have some inbuilt natural ability just stops you working to get where they are. Far better to appreciate the effort put into getting to the level they are than congratulate someone for being a good player and assume it all came easy to them.
------------- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34kRbLNCcpk" rel="nofollow - Fred 49 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGShBxEKnDk%20rel=" rel="nofollow - I once could serve |
Posted By: jrscatman
Date Posted: 11/23/2014 at 12:04am
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I don't know - at 4 years old, how much practice could they possibly have? ------------- Butterfly MPS FH: Donic Acuda S1 BH: Palio CK531A OX |
Posted By: Tassie52
Date Posted: 11/23/2014 at 3:19am
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Posted By: kenneyy88
Date Posted: 11/23/2014 at 5:12am
Talent is real with regards to speed of acquiring the abilities, and maximum potential of abilities.
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Posted By: Tassie52
Date Posted: 11/23/2014 at 5:24am
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Posted By: john18
Date Posted: 11/23/2014 at 6:00am
Interseting debate. Personally, I think there is a "thing" that can be called talent and you need it to be at the very very top of the world in sport (or in an another field). For example, if we train exactly the same a group of 10 or 100 or 1000 people with for example the training method of CNT. Exactly the same amount of training for each person. After 5 or 7 or 10 years, I'm sure there will be 1 or 2 or more individuals who will stand out because they are gifted. However, others persons surely will have a good level but not all the same and of course you can be better and reach a good level with hard work but to be on the very very top... (like in the Top 5 in WR) |
Posted By: Tassie52
Date Posted: 11/24/2014 at 4:39am
 The example given is flawed on a number of levels. First and foremost because simply putting 1000 people in an environment for the same length of time still leaves lots and lots of other variables which can't be controlled for. For example, my eyesight is crap, my limbs are disproportionate for my muscle mass, I have marked cross-lateral dominance, my proportion of slow twitch muscle fibres is very high, and I'm too stupid to learn anything. Being able to beat me does not prove talent. Equally flawed is to confuse excellence with talent. As much as I can't stand Cristiano Ronaldo, I have to concede he is a brilliant dead ball kicker, not because he has a special talent but because he practises it over and over and over again. When everyone else is heading home, he's still kicking the ball. The same was true for Beckham and Jonny Wilkinson, and Tiger Woods and every other super "talent". The hall with 1000 would-be table tennis players will have one or two who want it more and who will work to get it. That's not talent; it's commitment. |
Posted By: smackman
Date Posted: 11/24/2014 at 6:56am
that 4 year old girl looks talented  ------------- Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website |
Posted By: mhnh007
Date Posted: 11/24/2014 at 8:26am
I like your writing talent
. |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 11/24/2014 at 9:33am
So everybody is exactly the same? I don't think so. Some are tall, some are short, some are thicker, some are thinner. Some have better eyesight than others. On and on. Anyway, these kids are really good for their age. Maybe in a couple years they won't be playing at all. Who knows? |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 11/24/2014 at 10:55am
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Talent is not a myth - it's just that at the top levels, the amount of hours required to get there are so large that talent is not clearly the highest differentiator. There are levels of talent, but unless you use the right predictive metrics, how are you going to know? I mean, look at Zhang Jike's athletic base - that is unreal. As Baal points out, talented kids stop playing this or that sport all the time. As for Cristiano Ronaldo, Tassie52, if you think all he is is a brilliant deadball kicker, you are pretty blind. Sportscience did some test on him - if you have a chance, watch the whole thing but parts of the documentary point to skills that not everyone can acquire even with 10s of thousands of hours of playing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSL-gPMPVXI
------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: jrscatman
Date Posted: 11/24/2014 at 1:42pm
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Apologies to OP this thread has gone into the interesting talent vs Hard work debate. There was debate on about.com regarding this issue. It was proven conclusively in that thread (to my satisfaction) some people are more talented. Sean O'Neil was arguing for hard work. Then he mentions the Swedish team brought him in for training (Waldner, Persson and Appelgren - were on that team). Sean was the hardest working guy in that group! Last time I checked some of those non-hard working guys won world championships. So I say they had more talent than some very dedicated hard working players. ------------- Butterfly MPS FH: Donic Acuda S1 BH: Palio CK531A OX |
Posted By: chu_bun
Date Posted: 11/24/2014 at 3:43pm
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Just think of your left hand and right hand. You can train your LH to do whatever your RH can do, but I would say my RH is more "gifted" than my LH. And we are talking about hands and arms shared the same body and brain. Now think about arms from different bodies and brains... It won't be hard to imagine that there will be hands that say 5 times the level of difference between my LH and RH better than others. Next consider arms, legs, lungs, brains... There must be individuals out there who have all the "right hand" parts for TT. After 10000 hrs of training, these individuals should beat the crap out off an average Joe with the same training. ------------- Clipper Wood, Sanwei Gears FH, Sanwei T88-I BH. |
Posted By: Tassie52
Date Posted: 11/24/2014 at 6:18pm
A similar battery of tests could be performed on Lionel Messi or Gareth Bale or any other football superstar and similar results would turn up. Yes, there are going to be individual differences but that is all they would be - individual differences. |
Posted By: JKC
Date Posted: 11/24/2014 at 6:20pm
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I am in no way criticising the kids who have reached this level by this age, but as a teacher I think it is far more worthwhile to congratulate them on the effort put into getting to the level that they are at than assuming they are 'super-talented' and have got to this level easily. No one gains if we put barriers in front of ourselves and assume we can't all get there. The ones who lose out most are the kids themselves when they start to believe they are talented. The longer you can keep a kid thinking they are as good as they are because of hard work, the longer they will keep working.
------------- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34kRbLNCcpk" rel="nofollow - Fred 49 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGShBxEKnDk%20rel=" rel="nofollow - I once could serve |
Posted By: Tassie52
Date Posted: 11/24/2014 at 6:39pm
Why reduce the argument to "they had more talent"? Why not, "They had better coaching at an earlier age" or "They're working in a better national setup" or "They have better psychological profiles" or all of the above? |
Posted By: Tassie52
Date Posted: 11/24/2014 at 7:16pm
Matthew Syed singles out Darius Knight as a classic example of what happens if you praise talent rather than effort.
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Posted By: smackman
Date Posted: 11/24/2014 at 7:33pm
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there is no need to argue over watching a four year old hitting the ball back just enjoy the fact we all know that hard work, desire to get better, viewable pathway, pushy parents, goal setting, luck, closeness to table tennis club to house, being seen by right people, good coaches, learning to get back up, peer preasure, strenghth of organisation, Country of birth, real rubber on bats, good support, some financial help, some fitness, no girlfriends, viscaria/ or 729 and a little talent could get you anywhere ------------- Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website |
Posted By: Ringer84
Date Posted: 11/24/2014 at 8:45pm
If you are going to define talent as some sort of mysterious, supernatural, secret power... well, then yes, I would agree with you that talent doesn't exist. We can assign some kind of reasoning for almost everything that happens in this world. But when most people talk about talent, I think they're referring to those that are able to acquire and display a skill at a high level without any sort of formal training or instruction. If you met someone with a beautiful singing voice and that person had never had any sort of singing lessons, would you not say that person has a "talent" for singing? Yes, I'm sure there are physiological reasons why the person is a good singer (maybe the shape of their throat or how they breathe), but the fact is that these people have the ability to sing beautifully without being instructed how to do so. Nor have they needed to invest thousands of hours into perfecting their craft. To me, those people are "talented". In summary, most of these conversations about talent are kind of silly unless we establish a clear definition of what talent actually is.
------------- USATT Rating: 1785 Timo Boll Spirit FH: Andro Rasant BH: Baracuda |
Posted By: tommyzai
Date Posted: 11/24/2014 at 8:54pm
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Timo Zai has been training since conception. At 7-weeks he is doing a looping motion on both sides, left and right. ------------- For More Info, PM or Email me: [email protected] |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 11/24/2014 at 10:15pm
First, that's not what reductionist thinking means, and second and great deal of our understanding of the universe around us is based on reductionist thinking. Again, I repeat that not everybody is the same, and certain people have body types or other sensory-motor capabilities that are particularly suited for certain sports, which doesn't mean you can't be really good if you don't have one or all of those traits. But anyway, I enjoyed watching these kids. And the fact is, no matter how hard we work we can't all get there. So many other things have to be perfectly in place. |
Posted By: Tassie52
Date Posted: 11/25/2014 at 12:34am
This miserable worm, however, bows before your wisdom which declares that certain of us mere mortals have human frames which perform certain tasks better than others. This humble one also notes that Thou did not deign to bestow the term "talent" upon such creatures, and for this profound blessing this one remains profoundly grateful. |
Posted By: roundrobin
Date Posted: 11/25/2014 at 1:27am
That little kid is really talented... I can not force my son who's of the same age to pick up a ping pong paddle, no matter what, even though I have several former Olympians ready to train him and have taken him to ping pong venues countless times... You do need something inborn just to wanna do it to begin with. *BTW some posters are really talented at arguing against common sense, which also proves my point.  ------------- Current USATT Rating: 2181 Argentina National Team Member, 1985-1986. Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association. My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red |
Posted By: jrscatman
Date Posted: 11/25/2014 at 1:36am
Well I don't know about reductionist thinking - but then are you saying hard work does not differentiate champion from the rest of the contenders? ------------- Butterfly MPS FH: Donic Acuda S1 BH: Palio CK531A OX |
Posted By: Tassie52
Date Posted: 11/25/2014 at 3:29am
There are lots and lots of factors, some of which we have no control over. For example, if you want to be an Olympic diving champion it would be a mistake to grow up in Baker Lake, Canada's only inland Arctic community;  or, if you want to be a female gymnast, it's difficult if you're a 2 metre endomorph  Of those things we do have control over, hard work seems to be the most significant. And don't be fooled about J-O's dedication: He was born in 1965 and was already playing for Stockholm Spårvägars GoIF (Sweden) by 1971, aged 6. He's still playing at age 49; I think that says something about commitment. |
Posted By: roundrobin
Date Posted: 11/25/2014 at 4:08am
There are always exceptionally exceptional exceptions (lol) to that rule that severely weaken this argument. Liu Guoliang was the best Chinese server in history that beat Waldner the first FIVE times they met at his own game. He said it came to him naturally, as his teammates practiced many times harder than him but still couldn't do what he did in serves. And what about Mozart? He didn't have more practice than many of the kids today yet he was a true genius: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Amadeus_Mozart" rel="nofollow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Amadeus_Mozart What about Akiane? How much practice or hard work did she have? http://akiane.com/" rel="nofollow - https://akiane.com/ ------------- Current USATT Rating: 2181 Argentina National Team Member, 1985-1986. Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association. My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red |
Posted By: roundrobin
Date Posted: 11/25/2014 at 4:19am
 "Akiane's life began in an unusual way, with an underwater home birth in a shack on the edge of a cornfield. Although during her first years the family experienced severe hardships, Akiane grew up in a nurturing home-schooling environment. Her mother was a Lithuanian immigrant teacher and her father a chef from Chicago. In their rural Illinois home the family had no friends, no relatives, no television or radio, and their life was quite simple: long walks in nature, open conversations, and hands on explorations of knowledge. When Akiane was four years old, even though the family was indifferent to spirituality or religion, suddenly she started experiencing vivid impressions about invisible realms and a great desire to express them through art utilizing whatever medium was found on hand: candles, lipstick, fruits, vegetables, charcoal or pencils. Though once in while she would share many details about the self-aware universes she was seeing, most of her spiritual experiences, however, she kept secret, so as not to overwhelm her parents. "It is not time yet for you to know what I see. When that time comes, then you will know." Whether it was Akiane's vivid imagination or real experiences, her realistic drawings of mostly faces, undoubtedly impressed everybody, and during the first local art exhibitions people often had a hard time believing that the work could actually be created by such a young child. Soon afterwards, Akiane plunged into the world of colors, and a few more years later into the world of poetry leaving her family and audiences puzzled. Gradually the days became filled with thinking, painting and writing, and at the tender age of eight the self-taught prodigy completed her first five-foot long oil paintings mastering realism equal to that of a seasoned artist. The media took immediate notice, and her unique story rapidly circled the nation. Oprah Winfrey was the first to discover this nine-year-old's gift, and once she shared it during her show, Akiane's fame took off. Soon every continent was reporting her breathtaking story. Since then, she has been called a genius, a prodigy, a crystal child, an indigo, a messenger, a visionary, an ambassador, and the first true master of the 21st century. Completely unconcerned about all the labels or the accolades about her, Akiane, now seventeen, continues to express herself through art and poetry, inspiring and changing countless lives one person at a time. Those who have gotten to know this young genius, find her joyful, gentle, dedicated, modest and unpretentious. The young painter seems to be completely focused on her work getting up at four in the morning, for many hours painting in her studio, detail after detail, layer after layer, month after month—sometimes spending as much as four months on a single masterpiece. During her leisure Akiane loves writing her poetry and novels, composing on a piano, brushing up on four languages, fashion designing, sewing and playing with her four brothers. She will frolic with her golden retriever and a few close friends in the forest and even draw in the coloring books along with the youngsters, just to have fun. It seems that she can equally connect with all age groups, and lives who come in contact with Akiane are seldom the same: hundreds of children decide to follow in Akiane's footsteps and pursue self-education by following their true passion. Akiane plans to continue publishing books, travel with her art and poetry around the world and help needy families with the funds from her gallery sales and auctions. "I see ordinary life in an extraordinary world, and I see extraordinary life in an ordinary world. Everything is One. We are all connected. If we experienced the present through eternity and eternity through the present, we would know true Love." she explains in her upcoming book, Eternity Is Not That Long. Both the paintings and the poetry that accompany her images often are filled with riddles, symbols and codes. Her style appears to be unusually versatile and profoundly complex as if she is trying to reveal the deepest workings of the unknown. Akiane seems to have an awareness of reality, seen or unseen, that penetrates deeper than that of the ordinary human. She chooses her subjects from vastly different epochs or realms and real life models from all over the world and from all the races. The images of her original masterpieces are finished to such an ultra-realistic level that it transcends her canvas and transports the viewer into the artist's world of experientially authentic reality. Many of the world's leaders, royalty, scientists, media, CEOs, entrepreneurs, and celebrities have been acquainted with her art or are collecting it. Her art exhibitions have been held in museums, galleries, embassies, private mansions, universities, institutes, monasteries, churches, hotels and corporations across the world. To see Akiane's originals is such a rare and life changing experience that hundreds of art collectors and enthusiasts are flowing into her studio gallery inspired by her genius. Usual solo art exhibitions and book signings attract thousands waiting in line for hours to meet "the wunderkind". Her originals are sold for hundreds of thousands of dollars, many are valued at millions, making Akiane the most successful living visual art child prodigy in the world. Tens of thousands of dollars have been raised through auctions and art exhibits and donated to needy people throughout the globe. Included into the group of the richest kids-entrepreneurs of America Akiane has been touring around the United States along with other top entrepreneurs teaching millions of people about the secrets to success and happiness. The interest in Akiane has reached unprecedented proportions, with over 200 published art works, 800 literary creations, two published best selling books, regular appearances on prime-time TV and radio, such as Oprah Winfrey Show, World News Tonight, Good Morning America, Glen Beck Show/CNN, The View, Fox News, Montel Williams Show, Late Late Show, Lou Dobbs Show/CNN, Hour of Power, and numerous others, top media coverage in Brazil, Japan, Korea, Norway, Lithuania, Ireland, England, Canada, Middle East, and China, with an induction into the Kids Hall Of Fame, and World Council for Gifted and Talented Children, almost 300 million hits a year on www.akiane.com, the main website for Akiane gallery and over 100,000 daily hits on internet searches of the world wide web. Wise far beyond her years, Akiane, however, is indifferent to either praise or criticism. She cannot help but paint and write."I was born to paint," she says. What also made Akiane so unique and renowned is that she is able to portray the invisible and visible realms with such emotion and realism. Most of her priceless masterpieces carry a mysterious result: she often uses an unidentified golden dust substance that once 'materialized' in front of her eyes. Her painting "Innocence" is a hologram: from the front the lady appearing young and serene, but from the side she is all in tears and wrinkles. Akiane believes that people in the future will be able to study her originals with special microscopes revealing quantum relationships of the deepest colors and stories in her works. She has even been able to document her own masterpieces from beginning to end on film for educational purposes, and remains always open for many scientific and artistic collaborations. The fearless artist is not afraid to jump into the most enigmatic and thought provoking visual and literary debates engaging those that seek to explore uncharted territories. People from all beliefs and backgrounds seem to respond to her vision of love and unity like to no one else's." ------------- Current USATT Rating: 2181 Argentina National Team Member, 1985-1986. Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association. My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 11/25/2014 at 5:35pm
I think so too. So for lack of a better term, we call all of those other elements that go into it "talent" and they probably occur along multiple dimensions. In fact, the ability to work really hard and push yourself physically is itself a talent (possibly related in part to relative insensitivity to pain). Not everybody is capable of doing it to the same extent, even though this talent is extolled as more of a virtue than, say, superior visual system processing for motion vision, often on some sort of moral grounds. |
Posted By: jrscatman
Date Posted: 11/25/2014 at 5:47pm
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Wow...her work is stunning. Thanks for sharing. ------------- Butterfly MPS FH: Donic Acuda S1 BH: Palio CK531A OX |