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Advise for BH : inverted to SP ?

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Topic: Advise for BH : inverted to SP ?
Posted By: _maddic
Subject: Advise for BH : inverted to SP ?
Date Posted: 12/14/2014 at 11:38pm
my BH is
- very hit-ish
- take balls off the bounce alot
- most of my moves are punch block types , when the game opens up , i just end up punching everything that comes to my BH.

it looks pretty similar to this , except my bat face isnt as open as his when taking the ball that low.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKVxFbGLzdo
he is using a SP though

so , should i switch from inverted to SP on my BH ?
since iam not fully utilizing the properties of an inverted.

and any recommended SPs ?
i only have 1 in consideration atm ,
that is clippa 2.0 , the rubber which shaoyu is using.




Replies:
Posted By: IanMcg
Date Posted: 12/15/2014 at 12:01am
Clippa is pretty cheap as far as SP go, why not just buy a sheet and see what you can do with it


Posted By: cheondo
Date Posted: 12/15/2014 at 12:07am
Go for it! SPs are very effective and if you're not looping, you're more or less wasting the potential of that spinny inverted rubber, not to mention losing points on return of serve, which is significantly easier with short and medium pips.

You'll get all kinds of recommendations on what to use. Whatever you choose, try to have somebody show you  the technique in using them correctly. Spectol would be my first recommendation, while Raystorm or Challenger Attack a second recommendation, if you want spinnier. 


-------------
Primorac Carbon + P7
Feedback http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=70427&title=feedback-cheondo


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 12/15/2014 at 12:11am
Yes - if you have decided not to counterloop, switching to pips makes sense.

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https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: ThePongProfessor
Date Posted: 12/15/2014 at 1:17am
I have experimented with SP in BH myself on a number of occasions for the reasons that you mention. I have found TSP spectol or Adidas blaze spin to be very easy to use coming from inverted rubber.

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Posted By: flamingmdn
Date Posted: 12/15/2014 at 2:03am
A month ago I've came up to SP on backhand by the same reasons and now I'm the happiest man in the world when using my backhand. I don't know why I wasted so much time finding confidence in backhand counterloops if I don't like to do it.
So SP seems the right choise for you, just try it.

For example Spinlord Degu is very easy to start with and pretty cheap.


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Gewo Sensus Carbo Speed | Vega X


Posted By: _maddic
Date Posted: 12/15/2014 at 2:44am
Thanks for all the advice !
time to drop by the TT shop and get a SP rubber

i tried so hard to train up my backhand loops , but they only look good in training .
in matches , everything goes out the window. my BH topspin motion have this horrible start up motion that i have to cock back my wrist and flick it out.
and this only works when i have ample time to set the move up.

but when it's just straight punching , its just a small snap punch straight forward(or whichever way iam facing, easy to change direction too), no fancy stuff going on in my head.

Spinlord Degu,Adidas blaze spin,TSP spectol Raystorm ,Challenger Attack
will drop this list on the shopkeeper and see which ones he has :)

definitely gona be a interesting training session this weekend


Posted By: JohnnyChop
Date Posted: 12/15/2014 at 10:43am
Just note that you will loose spin on pushes and the sp style will confine you to about 2m from the table!

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729 Battle 2 Yasaka Goibao 5 Nittaku Fastarc G1   
Nittaku Fastarc G1 Butterfly Cypress Max


Posted By: tabletennis11
Date Posted: 12/15/2014 at 10:56pm
TSP spectol speed is a really good short pimple rubber for attacking and generating spin and a lot of variation, it's a good rubber to transition from inverted to short pips for offensive play but can be used for defense too if desired.

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Posted By: cheondo
Date Posted: 12/18/2014 at 6:42am
I have to respectfully disagree with tabletennis11's comment. Spectol Speed is nowhere near a good rubber for "transitioning" from inverted. Speed is fairly unforgiving. It's a great rubber, and I've used it, but you better know what you're doing before you use it. It's fast and has little to no dwell time. It's an awesome rubber for people who know how to hit with SPs.




-------------
Primorac Carbon + P7
Feedback http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=70427&title=feedback-cheondo


Posted By: frogger
Date Posted: 12/18/2014 at 7:20am

Juic Pips Ace is what you seek. Allround control sponge with medium speed. Agree Spectol is very fast. A step up from Pips Ace in speed is BTY Challenger Attack.

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Wood Paddle
Red side
Black side.




Posted By: AcudaDave
Date Posted: 12/18/2014 at 9:41am
Many threads have been written about which SPs to use. Here are many recommended SPs to try out:
802-40
Raystorm
Spectol
Victas VO 101 or 102
Adidas Blaze Spin
Andro Blowfish+
Stiga Radical
 
One thing I would note on many of these pips though is the sponge thickness. I use 1.8mm thickness, but have used 2.0mm as well. There is a big difference between 1.8 and 2.0 as far as speed goes.
Another thing to remember is what you're trying to achieve with your BH. If you just punch and hit then you probably don't need a spinny pips like Raystorm or Adidas Blaze Spin. TSP Spectol would work fine in that dept. Also if you're trying to go for something a little weird (more of a sinking ball when you hit) then Andro Blowfish+ or Stiga Radical both work well as they are both pretty fast with a little more deception than many SPs. I would probably recommend starting out with 1.8mm first to get used to them.


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Joola Zhou Qihao 90 blade
Joola Dynaryz Inferno max - BH
Nittaku Moristo SP 2.0 - FH


Posted By: Aman1234
Date Posted: 12/18/2014 at 10:02am
I have also thought about trying a SP rubber, but I am a fisher/lobber who likes to work from off the table.  What are the drawbacks of using SP from off the table.  I will sometimes use a slow spiny loop from off the table with my backhand, if I can't step around and it a forehand loop. Or I just hit a high lob with my backhand. 
 
Thanks,


-------------
BTY TBS
FH Tibhar Evolution FX-P
BH Donic Bluefire M3





Posted By: vanjr
Date Posted: 12/18/2014 at 2:24pm
Originally posted by Aman1234 Aman1234 wrote:

I have also thought about trying a SP rubber, but I am a fisher/lobber who likes to work from off the table.  What are the drawbacks of using SP from off the table.  I will sometimes use a slow spiny loop from off the table with my backhand, if I can't step around and it a forehand loop. Or I just hit a high lob with my backhand. 
 
Thanks,


I will let others reply, but SP are generally NOT a good off the table rubber. They work for some SP choppers but I do not know of anyone who fishes/lobs with SP from off the table.


Posted By: cheondo
Date Posted: 12/18/2014 at 6:23pm
Well, you really can't fish with SPs. If you're far off the table, you're best bet is chopping, which is what I do. It's actually effective and fun. If you get into a rally, you will want to be in a position to hit the ball at its peak with SPs... and sometimes this might be 4-6 feet back from the table, depending on your opponent. So, it's not like you have to stay, hugging the table, though of course you can.

Another thing is that even the so-called fast SPs are nowhere near as fast as today's inverted rubbers. Sometimes I'm surprised when people say Spectol is fast or Challenger Attack is fast -- if you just came from a new generation rubber, they won't seem fast. 


-------------
Primorac Carbon + P7
Feedback http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=70427&title=feedback-cheondo


Posted By: tuco
Date Posted: 12/18/2014 at 6:39pm
Originally posted by _maddic _maddic wrote:

my BH is
- very hit-ish
- take balls off the bounce alot
- most of my moves are punch block types , when the game opens up , i just end up punching everything that comes to my BH.

...

and any recommended SPs ?
i only have 1 in consideration atm ,
that is clippa 2.0 , the rubber which shaoyu is using.


If you are taking the ball off the bounce, that means you are playing quite close to the table.  For close to the table blocking/hitting, I prefer short/med pips with 1.5 sponge for better "sink" effect.  a 1.5-1.8 sponge is plenty fast if you are close to the table.



-------------
The Dark Side is:
"Quicker, easier, more seductive" - Yoda




Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 12/18/2014 at 7:47pm
Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

Originally posted by Aman1234 Aman1234 wrote:

I have also thought about trying a SP rubber, but I am a fisher/lobber who likes to work from off the table.  What are the drawbacks of using SP from off the table.  I will sometimes use a slow spiny loop from off the table with my backhand, if I can't step around and it a forehand loop. Or I just hit a high lob with my backhand. 
 
Thanks,


I will let others reply, but SP are generally NOT a good off the table rubber. They work for some SP choppers but I do not know of anyone who fishes/lobs with SP from off the table.


Very true.  SP become a big liability on one side if you back up at all, unless you are one of those very rare people who is so quick you can take most shots back there with your forehand (like Tan Ruiyu),   or, maybe learn to chop with them like Liu Song, which I think will fail unless you are already a very good chopper.  If you are not comfortable staying very close to the table pretty much all the time (like Wang Tao or Ai Fukuhara) then SP on the BH are not for you.  That factor also means you will have to adjust your forehand.  Most people good with SP on the BH side are quite short.  I think that is the reason (although there must be some exceptions to that).  I would second Acuda Dave's recommendations for good SP to start with coming from inverted.  Remember, tricky ones for your opponent are also tricky to master.  Raystorm in particular is very easy to use quickly coming from inverted, but if you stick with it, you may not develop a proper SP stroke.  But the OP may already have that.


Posted By: cheondo
Date Posted: 12/18/2014 at 8:02pm
If you play higher level players, much of the drives and loops will be peaking around 3 - 4 feet back from the table, so you don't have to stay *that* close. Tang Peng is helpful to watch. When he gets pushed back beyond 8 feet off table, he'll chop to stay in the point. 

If the OP is in Singapore, then he should have access to coaches. Just have a coach tell you how to use the SPs. Trying to figure it out yourself may take months, if not longer, of headaches. All the talk of "transitioning" IMO is irrelevant, if somebody teaches you how to open your bat more and hit forward more.


-------------
Primorac Carbon + P7
Feedback http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=70427&title=feedback-cheondo


Posted By: 42andbackpains
Date Posted: 12/19/2014 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by _maddic _maddic wrote:

my BH is
- very hit-ish
- take balls off the bounce alot
- most of my moves are punch block types , when the game opens up , i just end up punching everything that comes to my BH.

it looks pretty similar to this , except my bat face isnt as open as his when taking the ball that low.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKVxFbGLzdo
he is using a SP though

so , should i switch from inverted to SP on my BH ?
since iam not fully utilizing the properties of an inverted.

and any recommended SPs ?
i only have 1 in consideration atm ,
that is clippa 2.0 , the rubber which shaoyu is using.

As a matter of fact i have switched to short pips on my backhand for about 2 months and have taken 3 coaching lessons from Shaoyu. Thanks Schen for the recommend. Here are my thoughts on shortpips on the backhand.

1. Think push block and contacting the ball at or just after the highest point(just like penhold block), your regular inverted strokes will never work(too wristy). Coach is always pointing out i am using too much wrist. World class players using shortpips are wristy, but there timing is world class.

2. There is a great loss in power when using short pips, you yourself must generate the power. Thats why short pip attacking players play close to the table. Short pips does not grab the ball and return the power like inverted rubbers do.

3. You can loop/loop drive, but only close to the table. Playing mid or long range will not work well unless you are chopping.

4. Coaching is a very recommended or you will never yourself figure out what a correct form is. I think this was mentioned before. 

5. The pack, pack sound is the correct hit/timing....as Shaoyu always tells me...lol

6. Like anything, there are a lot of nuances/tips that come over time,playing and training. 

I see more and more people trying short pips these days. Why? My specific reason is because i dont want to torque my back backhand looping all the time. But that is half true, Coach has me looping with short pips in multiball....i suck so much and so out of breath Dead I think the main reason is people want to gain a advantage due to the new polyball. Thats my thoughts and dont flame me too much...Tongue



-------------
Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
OSP Ultimate II 88 grams
FH Dianchi D w/ Secret Sauce
BH Butterfly T05 Red
USATT rating keeps going down


Posted By: bbkon
Date Posted: 12/20/2014 at 3:00am
Originally posted by 42andbackpains 42andbackpains wrote:

Originally posted by _maddic _maddic wrote:

my BH is
- very hit-ish
- take balls off the bounce alot
- most of my moves are punch block types , when the game opens up , i just end up punching everything that comes to my BH.

it looks pretty similar to this , except my bat face isnt as open as his when taking the ball that low.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKVxFbGLzdo
he is using a SP though

so , should i switch from inverted to SP on my BH ?
since iam not fully utilizing the properties of an inverted.

and any recommended SPs ?
i only have 1 in consideration atm ,
that is clippa 2.0 , the rubber which shaoyu is using.

As a matter of fact i have switched to short pips on my backhand for about 2 months and have taken 3 coaching lessons from Shaoyu. Thanks Schen for the recommend. Here are my thoughts on shortpips on the backhand.

1. Think push block and contacting the ball at or just after the highest point(just like penhold block), your regular inverted strokes will never work(too wristy). Coach is always pointing out i am using too much wrist. World class players using shortpips are wristy, but there timing is world class.

2. There is a great loss in power when using short pips, you yourself must generate the power. Thats why short pip attacking players play close to the table. Short pips does not grab the ball and return the power like inverted rubbers do.

3. You can loop/loop drive, but only close to the table. Playing mid or long range will not work well unless you are chopping.

4. Coaching is a very recommended or you will never yourself figure out what a correct form is. I think this was mentioned before. 

5. The pack, pack sound is the correct hit/timing....as Shaoyu always tells me...lol

6. Like anything, there are a lot of nuances/tips that come over time,playing and training. 

I see more and more people trying short pips these days. Why? My specific reason is because i dont want to torque my back backhand looping all the time. But that is half true, Coach has me looping with short pips in multiball....i suck so much and so out of breath Dead I think the main reason is people want to gain a advantage due to the new polyball. Thats my thoughts and dont flame me too much...Tongue


who said short pips players would have the edge with the polyball?


Posted By: malin87
Date Posted: 12/20/2014 at 3:27am
If you have never tried pips then TSP Spinpips is the closest thing to inverted...

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Icecream AZX,T05,Spectol21


Posted By: 42andbackpains
Date Posted: 12/20/2014 at 2:46pm
Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

Originally posted by 42andbackpains 42andbackpains wrote:

Originally posted by _maddic _maddic wrote:

my BH is
- very hit-ish
- take balls off the bounce alot
- most of my moves are punch block types , when the game opens up , i just end up punching everything that comes to my BH.

it looks pretty similar to this , except my bat face isnt as open as his when taking the ball that low.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKVxFbGLzdo
he is using a SP though

so , should i switch from inverted to SP on my BH ?
since iam not fully utilizing the properties of an inverted.

and any recommended SPs ?
i only have 1 in consideration atm ,
that is clippa 2.0 , the rubber which shaoyu is using.

As a matter of fact i have switched to short pips on my backhand for about 2 months and have taken 3 coaching lessons from Shaoyu. Thanks Schen for the recommend. Here are my thoughts on shortpips on the backhand.

1. Think push block and contacting the ball at or just after the highest point(just like penhold block), your regular inverted strokes will never work(too wristy). Coach is always pointing out i am using too much wrist. World class players using shortpips are wristy, but there timing is world class.

2. There is a great loss in power when using short pips, you yourself must generate the power. Thats why short pip attacking players play close to the table. Short pips does not grab the ball and return the power like inverted rubbers do.

3. You can loop/loop drive, but only close to the table. Playing mid or long range will not work well unless you are chopping.

4. Coaching is a very recommended or you will never yourself figure out what a correct form is. I think this was mentioned before. 

5. The pack, pack sound is the correct hit/timing....as Shaoyu always tells me...lol

6. Like anything, there are a lot of nuances/tips that come over time,playing and training. 

I see more and more people trying short pips these days. Why? My specific reason is because i dont want to torque my back backhand looping all the time. But that is half true, Coach has me looping with short pips in multiball....i suck so much and so out of breath Dead I think the main reason is people want to gain a advantage due to the new polyball. Thats my thoughts and dont flame me too much...Tongue


who said short pips players would have the edge with the polyball?

I was trying to say since the introduction of the polyball, players are trying different things (short pips) to see if they can gain a advantage. Not saying it will give a advantage. I tried playing with the Nittaku Premium polyball and it totally throws me off, i guess we just have to get used to it. Smile


-------------
Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
OSP Ultimate II 88 grams
FH Dianchi D w/ Secret Sauce
BH Butterfly T05 Red
USATT rating keeps going down


Posted By: cheondo
Date Posted: 12/20/2014 at 6:46pm
My Korean coach is really into sounds too. It's actually very helpful to listen to the sound and you can know if you've hit the ball correctly or not, but this is whole nother topic.

-------------
Primorac Carbon + P7
Feedback http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=70427&title=feedback-cheondo



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