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Tabletennis11 rubber testing reviews

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Topic: Tabletennis11 rubber testing reviews
Posted By: slevin
Subject: Tabletennis11 rubber testing reviews
Date Posted: 05/07/2015 at 9:29pm
For details and to sign-up to be a tester, please see here:
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Here is the expected set of rubbers we intend to review:

Hard rubbers:
  1. Tibhar Evolution MX-S
  2. Tibhar Evolution MX-P
  3. Donic Bluefire M1 Turbo
  4. Joola Rhyzm
Medium and medium-soft rubbers:
  1. Andro Rasant Grip
  2. Yasaka Rakza X Soft
  3. Xiom Sigma 2 Europe
  4. Joola Maxxx P
Current tester list (name in bold is the current tester of the rubber):
  1. Tibhar Evolution MX-P
    1. patrickhrdlicka
    2. NextLevel
    3. tomkei
    4. jonyer1980
  2. Rakza X Soft
    1. qualizon
    2. patrickhrdlicka
    3. FlatHitter
    4. PingPongHolic10
  3. Rasant Grip
    1. Slevin
    2. Rich215
    3. kevo
    4. PingPongHolic10
  4. Tibhar Evolution MX-S
    1. Slevin
    2. PingPongHolic10
  5. Bluefire M1 Turbo
    1. Slevin
    2. patrickhrdlicka
    3. NextLevel
  6. Sigma 2 Europe
    1. Slevin
    2. PingPongHolic10
  7. Joola Rhyzm
    1. Slevin
  8. Joola Maxxx P
    1. Slevin
    2. Argothman
    3. PingPongHolic10
For now, we start with Evolution MX-P and Rakza X Soft.
I'll start the list for the other rubbers when I receive them from TT11


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Replies:
Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 05/07/2015 at 9:37pm
I've finished testing MX-P and the Rakza X Soft. Shall send it to the testers on the top of the list tomorrow and shall post my reviews up in a day.

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Posted By: asifgunz
Date Posted: 05/07/2015 at 9:45pm
Thank ya Mr. Slevin. Looking forward to your review as well as writing my own.

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Posted By: smackman
Date Posted: 05/07/2015 at 10:32pm
Originally posted by asifgunz asifgunz wrote:

Thank ya Mr. Slevin. Looking forward to your review as well as writing my own.
should write one without reading someone elesesses, makes you think 

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Posted By: asifgunz
Date Posted: 05/07/2015 at 11:08pm
Just to see how others feel about the rubber and present my own pov.


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Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 05/10/2015 at 11:24am
Review: Tibhar Evolution MX-P

Hardness: 47 degrees (slightly harder than Tenergy 05, slightly softer than Donic Bluefire M1)

This rubber is perhaps the only non-chinese rubber other than the Tenergy series to have had critical adoption at the pro level. Some users include Vladimir Samsonov, Bogan Tokic, Paul Drinkhall and Soumyajit Ghosh.

Most of the new generation ESN rubbers seem to come with 2 main types of topsheet: hard / grippy and soft / grippy. This rubber (along with the Yasaka Rakza X) belongs to the 1st type. Additionally, this rubber feels slightly tacky when new.

The advantages of hard / grippy sheets seem to be more linearity in spin delivery at the cost of perhaps slightly more effort in generating spin. The advantages of soft / grippy sheets are ease in generating spin at the cost of control (non-linearity that comes with gradual increase in effort).

Anyway: some more characteristics here:

Speed: Faster than Tenergy 05 and 64. Slightly slower than Bluefire M1

Short game: Excellent relative to T05 and T64. The slight tack helps. Very easy to be directionally precise and linear.

Spin: Standard hard rubber characterstics - slightly more difficult to generate spin (as opposed to softer rubber) but when you apply the effort you get more spin that you would with softer rubber. Relative to other 47 - 50 degree tensor-type rubbers, it has very high spin (perhaps the most of the lot).

Looping: Excellent. On hard blades like the MJ-SZLC, I get more dwell with this rubber than with T05 (which was surprising to me). Very high spin. Medium-high throw (slightly lower than that of T05).

Smashing: very good - better than Tenergy 05

Blade matching: it matches very well with most blades other than very hard and / or fast blades. I like it a bit better on limba than on koto blades.




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Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 05/10/2015 at 11:36am
Review: Yasaka Rakza X Soft

Tested: Red, max sheet
Hardness: 42.5 degrees
Dimensions: 169 x 170mm
Weight: 68g

To me, this is a very interesting medium-soft rubber. This is because most of the newer medium-soft rubbers have soft / grippy topsheets (Bluefire JP02, Rasant Grip, Joola Maxxx P, Omega V Europe, etc). This one has a hard / grippy topsheet. The advantages of this are (a) better linearity in spin delivery (b) better synergy with sponge, and (c) better overall control.

Another trait is that it plays harder than it's 42.5 degrees seem to suggest. For example, I felt that it was easier to bottom out the 45 degree Omega V Europe than the RXSoft.

Spin is very good and easy to generate. The resultant arc is very tight. Throw is a touch lower than medium and very uniform.

Overall, this is the best medium soft rubber I've used so far and pairs with more blades than medium-soft rubbers with soft topsheets would (you'd need harder blades for those).





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Posted By: asifgunz
Date Posted: 05/10/2015 at 12:17pm
Slevin please check your pm

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Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 05/22/2015 at 5:39pm
Added kevo and PingPongHolic10 to the list of testers for Rasant Grip.

Added the other rubbers as available for testing (see OP). Please PM me to sign up


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Posted By: ThePongProfessor
Date Posted: 05/28/2015 at 10:50am
Review Tibhar MX-P

Tibhar MX-P evolution caters to high-level attacking players who have been wishing for a rubber that is a hybrid between typical Chinese and Euro/Japanese rubbers. The very hard sponge requires significant effort from the player to fully realize the speed potential – what you put in is what you get out – very linear. The medium tacky top-sheet grips the ball extremely well, rendering it particularly useful for flicks and loops. The MX-P is a fast (but not excessively so) rubber, which provides a lot of control in the attacking game (slightly faster than Adidas P7 and Andro Rasant Grip - slightly slower than Adidas Tenzone Ultra SF; less spinny than P7 and RG – more similar to TZU-SF; slightly more tacky than P7). Touch play, i.e., short serves and pushes, requires finesse and good feeling from the player – however, the ball trajectory is relatively flat. Overall an excellent rubber for attackers who emphasize speed over spin and who like the feel of a hard sponge. I found this rubber to be particularly well-suited as a BH rubber. It’s unlike any other rubber that I have tried – the sponge hardness is that of a Chinese rubber, while the top-sheet is like a less tacky H3 Neo (or a more tacky P7).  

Best feature: BH flick and topspin. I developed a big grin right after my first couple of BH shots. The top-sheet grips the ball very well allowing for effortless and controlled BH topspin and flicks. Serves in which the rubber is fully engaged (half-long/long backspin and/or sidespin serves) are very spinny.

Least desirable feature: The fast and hard sponge required significant adjustments to my short serves and pushes. And, the rubber is heavy.  

Equipment used in test: Andro Temper Tech Off- blade (medium all-wood), Adidas P7 black max and Tibhar MX-P red max.

My regular equipment: Andro Temper Tech Off- Adidas P7 black max (FH), Rasant Grip red 1.9 or 2.1 (BH).

Reviewer background: US rating 2000+, all-round style with equal emphasis on spin and speed. I have tested ~10+ rubbers over the past year (T05 fx, T80, T64, Stiga Calibra LT, Stiga Calibra LT Spin, H3 Neo, Andro Rasant Grip, Andro Rasant Powergrip, Adidas P7, Adidas Tenzone Ultra SF, Xiom Sigma Europe I). 


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Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 05/28/2015 at 7:35pm
great review patrickhrdlicka, thanks!

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Posted By: kevo
Date Posted: 05/28/2015 at 8:00pm
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Added kevo and PingPongHolic10 to the list of testers for Rasant Grip.

Added the other rubbers as available for testing (see OP). Please PM me to sign up

Cheers, Slevin. PM'd my address.


Posted By: kevo
Date Posted: 05/28/2015 at 8:01pm
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Added kevo and PingPongHolic10 to the list of testers for Rasant Grip.

Added the other rubbers as available for testing (see OP). Please PM me to sign up

Cheers, Slevin, pm'd my address.


Posted By: qualizon
Date Posted: 05/29/2015 at 11:03pm
Review Rakza X Soft:
I've always use Tenergy (64 and 80fx) as backhand for all of my blades, I've tried Bluefire M2 in the past as people say it's a very good backhand rubber and it's very easy to adopt to, but for some reason I always go back to Tenergy. A few months back I tried Rakza 7 on a friend's blade, and it's a very easy to adopt to, which gave me a good impression of the Rakza series.

Now, enough background. The Rakza X Soft has a different rubber texture as Tenergy obviously, and if I remember it right, the rubber texture looks quite like the Bluefire JP02. 

I tried the Rakza X Soft on a 7 ply blade with ZLC as a backhand rubber, and i'm surprised how easy it is to control where the ball lands. My backhand stroke tends to be too strong in a sense that sometimes the ball lands inconsistently. But with this new setup, I can just pick it up without much adjustment, and the ball lands very consistently. May be it's not as fast as my tenergy as backhand rubber, that's why it's easier to control, I also notice the ball tends to have a lower arc comparing to what I used to, and although it doesn't fall below the net, but I got a lot of net in both my rpb blocking and light loop.





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Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 06/01/2015 at 3:09pm
Thanks for the review qualizon!

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Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 06/04/2015 at 2:45pm
Review: Andro Rasant Grip

So, a lot has been written about this rubber, particularly of its potential to generate spin. I tested a red Rasant Grip max which is (according to Andro) about the same hardness as Tenergy 05 and is around the same weight as well.

For me, here are the main differences between the Rasant Grip and Tenergy 05:
  1. RG's topsheet is soft whereas T05's topsheet is hard
  2. T05 feels overall harder than RG
  3. RG is low throw where as T05 is high throw
  4. Speed / Power: T05 > RG. This is especially true from mid-distance
  5. Spin on soft strokes: RG = T05
  6. Spin from mid-distance / hard strokes: T05 > RG
For me, RG was a tad difficult to control in that it's output is very different when you brush vs when you use the sponge. Brushing gives high spin. Somehow, I did not like the sponge design on this rubber - it almost seems to negate some of the spin that RG's topsheet generates when you hit hard. Also, the throw gets a lot lower when you use the sponge. T05 is a lot more consistent with regards to the points above.

RG is easier to control in serve-receive and blocking.

Let me compare RG to two other recent 45 deg rubbers: Omega V Euro and Bluefire JP02
  1. Speed: JP02 > RG > O5E
  2. Spin on slow strokes: RG = 05E >= JP02
  3. Spin on harder strokes (from mid-distance): JP02 >= RG > 05E
  4. Overall capability from mid-distance: JP02 > RG > O5E
Basically, I find RG to be an excellent close-to-the table BH rubber IF you like low throw there.



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Posted By: ttping85
Date Posted: 06/04/2015 at 4:19pm
Interesting. I felt that Rasant grip was way faster than T05 or JP02.

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Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 06/04/2015 at 6:04pm
Originally posted by ttping85 ttping85 wrote:

Interesting. I felt that Rasant grip was way faster than T05 or JP02.


The speed / spin ratio of RG is higher than T05 on strokes from mid-distance (so some balls do sail long) but IMHO, one can generate more powerful strokes with T05 than with RG while being in control.

I find JP02 faster from mid-distance as well.

I've used JP02 for 1 week. I have used up 2 sheets of RG and many T05 sheets.

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Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 06/05/2015 at 2:43pm
Review: Tibhar Evolution MX-S max

I was eagerly anticipating reviewing this rubber after reading all the feedback from the initial adopters.

I tried it on the FH of my 94g Nittaku Barwell Fleet with a Xiom Sigma 2 Euro on the BH side. At the same time, I glued up a new MX-P on my back-up Barwell Fleet so that I could compare the two.

It is heavy - around 54g cut and glued to the 158x151 blade. Brought the weight of my combo to a whopping 201g.

The MX-S is rated as slightly harder than MX-P. If MX-P's sponge is around 47 degrees, MX-S sponge felt like around 50 degrees but its topsheet felt softer than MX-P's. So, all-in, I'd say MX-S feels about 1 degree harder.

The sponge's pores seemed slightly smaller than those of MX-P. The topsheet seemed to be very grippy and of a very high quality.

Upon playing, I was pleasantly surprised: contrary to my pre-conceptions, this rubber, though slower than MX-P, is fast! So, one would not have to worry about putting in an extra effort (so long as you're in position and you have some time).

It certainly felt a touch spinnier than MX-P and the throw was a touch lower. Because of it's slightly softer topsheet, lifting backspin was very easy and the resulting opening loop is very heavy.

I took it to play some 7-8 matches at the club. Here, I saw the qualities that make it a bit difficult to handle.

Because it has a slightly soft topsheet (combined with a hard sponge), I felt that when I tried countering the ball (when out of position), it went into the net. One sees a similar effect while trying to lift (by looping) a low ball.

It needs a level of penetration of rubber into the ball that is higher than that required by other rubbers. Which means that one would need good footwork to use this rubber. It is certainly a lot less forgiving in that regard than MX-P is but the rewards are potentially greater.

Enough of comparing this with MX-P. Now let me compare it to other 50 degree rubbers I've played with (Bluefire M1 Turbo and the Rakza X).

Spin: MX-S > M1T > RX
Throw: M1T > RX > MX-S (RX has more constant throw, MX-S varies from being equal to RX and slightly lower than it)
Speed: M1T > RX = MX-S
Control (ease of use): RX >> M1T > MX-S
My preference: RX > M1T > MX-S
My preference (if I was training 5-7 days a week): MX-S > M1T > RX




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Posted By: PingPongHolic10
Date Posted: 06/05/2015 at 3:17pm
MX-S: soft topsheet with hard sponge? Sounds similar to the Asia series for the Xiom rubbers.

Slevin,
        Have you played with any of the Asia series? I have played with Vega Asia on RPB & didn't like it.  (I mean it was good at most things, but not for brush looping especially with the new balls (I used it on a Rosewood V blade), perhaps it would have been better with a softer outer blade.

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Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 06/05/2015 at 3:34pm
Originally posted by PingPongHolic10 PingPongHolic10 wrote:

MX-S: soft topsheet with hard sponge? Sounds similar to the Asia series for the Xiom rubbers.


No, it isn't as soft as the Xiom line - just a bit softer than MX-P. This is an ESN new gen thing - M1T top sheet is a touch softer than M1 as well.

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Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 06/05/2015 at 3:36pm
Omega V Asia was recommended to me as an MX-S alternative by AndySmith.  The one thing that MX-S does, in addition to encouraging improved footwork, is encourage harder contact.  That's why I am going to keep playing with both MX-S and T05 - I figure that if I can master both, that will crystallize my game.

MX-S is definitely easier to use on a slower/softer blade.  In fact, I stopped using the max version completely because of the weight and the speed.


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Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 06/11/2015 at 10:31am
Review: Donic Bluefire M1 Turbo

Max Black, 50 degree hardness
Dimensions: 169x170
Weight: 74.5g 

This is the latest generation offering from Donic. It is of the same generation (and hardness) a Yasaka's Rakza X and Tibhar's Evolution MX-S.

Unlike the early reports of Donic Acuda Blue P1, the M1T seems to be of the 'high spin' variety.

At first glance of the topsheet, you have to exclaim a big 'Wow'. Very high quality (like that of MX-S) and very grippy. Just as MX-S has a slightly harder sponge and a slightly softer topsheet than MX-P, the M1T has a slightly harder sponge and a slightly softer topsheet than M1. The overall feeling of hardness and dwell were similar to that of the MX-S. 

At my regular 70% power (while FH looping), I found it's speed and spin to be a shade less than MX-P. It's speed is at about that of T05. Harder rubbers need slightly more racket speed to bring out the spin and this is no different (although its slightly softer topsheet makes it easier to generate spin with than M1). This means that players that generate reasonably fast racket speed can really bring out the beast in this rubber.

Just like the MX-S, it felt better than MX-P for looping underspin - it was very easy to lift the ball and the resulting loops were very spinny (more than MX-P).

Great short game, as expected.

The difference between this rubber and MX-S is in ease of play. The M1T is more linear than the MX-S and is less demanding when you're a bit late to the ball. It's throw is perhaps a shade lower than that of the MX-P but is higher than that of the MX-S. 

So, this is a great rubber for those who want:
  • a hard rubber on FH (between 48 and 49 deg in overall hardness) for all of its advantages in short game, linearity and powerlooping over rubbers like T05
  • better spin / speed ratio than that of the MX-P (MX-P may feel too fast on OFF blades) & spinnier loops against underspin. I think that its overall spin is a shade less than that of MX-P for my regular strokes (against block). It would obviously be higher for strokes with faster racket speed.
  • easier to use than MX-S & with a slightly higher throw. A shade more difficult to generate spin with than MX-P but with better control than MX-P
  • slightly more aggressive than Yasaka Rakza X
I've taken this video link from seguso's public signature in his profile. In this, the player in red is using Bluefore M1 Turbo max on FH
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Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 06/23/2015 at 12:43am
I've stuck with MX-S in 2.0mm and gone back and forth with it vs. Tenergy 05.  The rubber is actually a brush looping rubber and I am now beginning to see how my misconceptions about the rubber influenced how I was using it vs. how I could be using it.  When you are out of position with MX-S, you are supposed to brush as best as you can for maximum arc.  The results can be astonishing.

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Posted By: ThePongProfessor
Date Posted: 06/25/2015 at 2:57am

Review: Donic Bluefire M1 Turbo

Immediately upon hitting the first couple of balls, I am teleported back to the mid-1980s, to the little economically depressed Danish town where I had my TT upbringings. A long-forgotten ugly memory is reactivated: my first real paddle with two Friendship 729’s, that’s what this thing reminds me of !!!

Let’s just say, I am not impressed by the Donic Bluefire M1 Turbo. This thing is beyond heavy (cut, it is 6g more than a Rasant Grip and 4g more than MX-P) and has a clikety-clakety sound, not unlike how I imagine a pan would sound like should anyone decide to play TT with it. The sponge and the topsheet are very hard (hence the associations to the 729). The plasticky topsheet is very tacky but less so than a brandnew H3 Neo.

BH/FH topspin rallies: the ball has a flat trajectory; close to the table the rubber seems rather slow (not faster than Adidas P7). Away from the table, it is as if a catapult is activated, making it difficult to judge the length on the ball (as fast as Tenzone Ultra SF). I found straight hitting away from the table hard to control.

Lift against backspin: The tacky surface grips the ball very well and this feature is very helpful in all facets of the game that require lift, that is FH/BH flip and FH/BH topspin against backspin. The rubber shines in this area.

Short game: easy to keep pushes short and low.

Ironically, despite the very tacky topsheet, it is difficult to produce large amounts of spin with this rubber as the hard sponge/sheet prevent the ball from fully engaging with the rubber. My serves and 3rd ball topspins had noticeably less spin to them than my regular equipment (Rasant Grip and TZU-SF) or the Tibhar MX-P, which has a softer topsheet.

I am guessing this was designed with the intention of being a hybrid between typical Chinese and Euro/Japanese rubbers, but it feels more like a Chinese rubber. Consistent with this, the rubber requires a lot of effort from the player to fully realize its potential. I think this rubber is suitable for Chinese-style All/OFF players who don’t mind heavy rubbers. However, I think that there are many (less expensive) alternative rubbers on the market which fit the bill equally well, if not better. In my book, the MX-P is a more attractive hybrid rubber, due to its softer topsheet.  

Equipment used in test: Andro Temper Tech Off- blade (medium all-wood), Donic Bluefire M1 Turbo black max and Yasaka Rakza X soft red max.

My regular equipment: Andro Temper Tech Off, Adidas Tenzone Ultra SF black max (FH), Rasant Grip red 1.9 or 2.1 (BH).

Reviewer background: US rating 2000+, all-round style with equal emphasis on spin and speed. I have tested ~10+ rubbers over the past year (T05 fx, T80, T64, Stiga Calibra LT, Stiga Calibra LT Spin, H3 Neo, Andro Rasant Grip, Andro Rasant Powergrip, Adidas P7, Adidas Tenzone Ultra SF, Xiom Sigma Europe I, Tibhar MX-P, Yasaka Rakza X soft and Donic Bluefire M1 Turbo). 

 



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Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 06/25/2015 at 7:02am
Great review, patrickhrdlicka!

IMHO, MX-S, M1T & RX (Rakza 10) are all harder than MX-P & the 1st 2 are heavier.

For both those reasons, players used to 45 deg or less rubbers or 48 deg or less cut weight of their sheets might not find them enticing. I think that they are possible improvements / candidates for those (like seguso, NL, etc) who are already used to hard rubbers.

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Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 06/25/2015 at 7:06am
FWIW, I use MX-S in 2.0mm.  Max is just not worth it for what I do.  I personally would have preferred to test the heavier/harder rubbers in 2.0mm but they are what they are.

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Posted By: ThePongProfessor
Date Posted: 06/26/2015 at 2:44am
Review: Yasaka Rakza X Soft

This rubber strikes me as a mix between Adidas P7 and Adidas Tenzone Ultra SF, in terms of speed and spin, respectively. It is a well-behaved, uncontroversial, but perhaps also a little bit boring rubber. It does everything well, but nothing outstandingly so. It reminds me of the role that Mark V (another Yasaka rubber) had in the range of rubbers 20 years ago. A very safe choice, but not necessarily the best choice.

The sponge and topsheet are medium/medium soft and seem to be of good quality. The surface only has little tack to it. Cut, a max weighs 2g less than a 1.9 mm Rasant Grip or a max P7.

BH/FH topspin rallies: the rubber produces a medium throw with sufficient safety over the net. Topspins further away from the table have a nice feel and soft clicky sound to them, as the ball is engaged by the sponge. It produces similar speed as the P7, but with less spin than P7 or RG, being more in the ballpark of TZU-SF.

Lift against backspin: At slow speeds (flip), you need to have  good technique/timing to safely bring the ball over the net, due to the absence of topsheet tack. At greater speeds, i.e., loops where the ball digs into the sponge, this is a non-issue, and the ball has a nice arc over the net.

Short game: I found that my pushes popped up a bit, requiring adjustment in technique. No biggie though. 

It is easy to keep serve short and relatively spinny, although again, the serves are less spinny than with my regular rubbers (Rasant Grip, P7, or TZU-SF).

I have a hard time identifying the distinguishing parameter that will  set the Rakza X soft apart from the many other choices in this busy segment of the rubber market. Don’t get me wrong - I think it is an excellent rubber for beginners all the way up to 2200-2300 USATT rated players, in no small part because it weighs so little and appears to be made of good quality materials. However, I anticipate that very highly skilled players will request additional speed and/or spin, which this rubber doesn’t deliver.

Equipment used in test: Andro Temper Tech Off- blade (medium all-wood), Donic Bluefire M1 Turbo black max and Yasaka Rakza X soft red max.

My regular equipment: Andro Temper Tech Off, Adidas Tenzone Ultra SF black max (FH), Rasant Grip red 1.9 or 2.1 (BH).

Reviewer background: US rating 2000+, all-round style with equal emphasis on spin and speed. I have tested ~15 rubbers over the past year (T05 fx, T80, T64, Stiga Calibra LT, Stiga Calibra LT Spin, H3 Neo, Andro Rasant Grip, Andro Rasant Powergrip, Adidas P7, Adidas Tenzone Ultra SF, Xiom Sigma Europe I, Tibhar MX-P, Yasaka Rakza X soft, and Donic Bluefire M1 Turbo). 



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Posted By: Rich215
Date Posted: 06/30/2015 at 11:12am
Sorry everyone for my delay in testing and review report of the Rasant Grip rubber.  I had a very unexpected long stay at a hospital with a family member and just got back after 3 weeks.  I played with the rubber last night for a couple matches on my Juic B. Alpha.   Rakza soft 2.0 on one side and this Rasant Grip 2.1 on the other.   Initial impressions were quite favorable, but I need to play again as I did not have enough time to really get a solid feel of it.  

I also will change my 2.0 Rakza soft to Max R7 soft for tomorrow nights matches.  I think the sponge on my old R7S 2.0 is too dead and lacked dwell to compare looping and general feel. 

I will send the Rasant Grip on "kevo" come thursday.  Please PM me with his address info if he is the next one still.  


Edit....I see kevo got some RG from another forum member.  Is "PingPongHolic10" next?



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Posted By: ttping85
Date Posted: 06/30/2015 at 11:29am
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Originally posted by ttping85 ttping85 wrote:

Interesting. I felt that Rasant grip was way faster than T05 or JP02.


The speed / spin ratio of RG is higher than T05 on strokes from mid-distance (so some balls do sail long) but IMHO, one can generate more powerful strokes with T05 than with RG while being in control.

I find JP02 faster from mid-distance as well.

I've used JP02 for 1 week. I have used up 2 sheets of RG and many T05 sheets.

Well bluefire JP02 is my backhand rubbers since January and I tried RG several times. JP02 is perfect speed and control ratio for my backhand while I have a hard time to control the speed of the RG on my BH. On the opposite on my FH I like the speed of the RG, similar to Bluefire M2, while the speed of JP02 is not sufficient for my FH. 


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Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 06/30/2015 at 1:44pm
ttping85: I trust your judgement - I've tried JP02 and RG at different times (on the same blade but not simultaneously).

How is Xiom OVE speed v/s JP02 & RG according to you?


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Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 06/30/2015 at 2:13pm
Also, a request to TT11 and to ttping85:

I assume that a lot of times players need direction like, for example: "I'd like something a touch harder and faster than JP03 but grippy for the plastic ball" or "How is Omega V Europe speed & throw-wise v/s JP02, JP03, RG, etc?

ttping85: could you please volunteer to design a comparison table to put on TT11's website? You don't have to stick to the standard "speed", "spin" and "control" attributes. You can have your own (such as 'sponge hardness', 'topsheet hardness', 'topsheet grip', 'bounciness', 'dynamism' and 'throw').

Thanks!


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Posted By: ttping85
Date Posted: 07/01/2015 at 3:13am
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

ttping85: I trust your judgement - I've tried JP02 and RG at different times (on the same blade but not simultaneously).

How is Xiom OVE speed v/s JP02 & RG according to you?

I think OVE just slightly slower than JP02 and quite slower than RG. But I also think that OVE spinnier and has more control than the 2 others. 


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Posted By: ttping85
Date Posted: 07/01/2015 at 3:15am
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Also, a request to TT11 and to ttping85:

I assume that a lot of times players need direction like, for example: "I'd like something a touch harder and faster than JP03 but grippy for the plastic ball" or "How is Omega V Europe speed & throw-wise v/s JP02, JP03, RG, etc?

ttping85: could you please volunteer to design a comparison table to put on TT11's website? You don't have to stick to the standard "speed", "spin" and "control" attributes. You can have your own (such as 'sponge hardness', 'topsheet hardness', 'topsheet grip', 'bounciness', 'dynamism' and 'throw').

Thanks!

We have been planning to do this but didn't get to it. What kind of table would you suggest? Columns with different characteristics and lines with different rubbers? 


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Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 07/01/2015 at 8:55am
Rich215, we're waiting eagerly for your review - especially after your recent decision to try trade for Rasant Grip sheets in the 'For Sale' section! :)

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Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 07/01/2015 at 8:56am
Originally posted by ttping85 ttping85 wrote:

We have been planning to do this but didn't get to it. What kind of table would you suggest? Columns with different characteristics and lines with different rubbers? 

Yes, exactly.


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Posted By: Rich215
Date Posted: 07/01/2015 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Rich215, we're waiting eagerly for your review - especially after your recent decision to try trade for Rasant Grip sheets in the 'For Sale' section! :)


Yes,  I have been waiting to find another rubber to take over for my beloved Rakza 7 rubbers.  Since I use the soft version of the R7's.....I have been looking for a replacement that has a lower throw and slightly stiffer sponge..with a soft top sheet.  I use the regular R7 from time to time too, but find it too stiff or fast on many of my touch or short play.  The quick test the other night let me instantly to feel as the Rasant Grip just maybe exactly what I have been looking for. 

Tonight I will be playing at my normal club and have the change to play many matches.  I will be able to get a clear idea of this rubber after this.  I just new the Xiom rubbers were not what I was looking for instantly after hitting with them.  I got used to the higher rebound/bounce from the R7s and T05FX sponges.  The Xiom rubbers just lacked in that dept for me, and the regular R7 with the stiffer sponge was a bit too much. The topsheet on the T05fx just felt too stiff and throw was too high. 

Look for my review tomorrow sometime as I wont be home until very late this evening. 




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Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 07/02/2015 at 11:09am
Initial Thoughts - MX-P 1.9-2.0 and Bluefire M1 Turbo 2.1-2.2

I got this in the mail passed on by patrickhrdlicka (who I coincidentally met at Westchester).  Recently. I have been doing a lot of work trying to figure out where my stroke sits between Tenergy 05 and MX-S.

Both test sheets have significant glue build up.  I put them on an ALL blade (a heavy Donic Appelgren AR Exclusive) - I tend to deal mostly in stuff that is ALL+ to the lower end of OFF, usually all wood.  Over time, my style has gone from being relatively flat to heavy topspin looping and occasional dummy looping on both sides.  While I have used medium soft rubbers (Rhyzm 42.5, Narucross GS Soft) at various points, I have been using hard rubbers almost exclusively on both forehand and backhand for over a year.

The rubbers were both pretty spinny and I could switch easily between both for forehand and backhand without missing much.  It had me wondering whether ESN needs to release so many rubbers after all.  Or maybe my strokes just makes every rubber feel the same.

Neither had that easy Tenergy spin, though both had a bit more catapult than MX-S, but definitely less than Tenergy 05, which can sometimes basically loop for you.

I will put them on an ALL+/OFF- blade (Yasaka Extra), try a variety of specialty shots and post final conclusions next week.  What I am trying to do is distinguish between these rubbers.  The niche that MX-S fills is basically a Tenergy 05 lover who wants to swing hard without dealing with catapult.  I am trying to see what MX-P and M1T have that makes them truly different and get to heart of what makes MX-P truly different from MX-S - it's likely catapult, but there may be other things.

Concluding thoughts
=============
So I have played some more with MX-P and M1T on a Samsonov Force Pro.  M1T is almost Chinese in some ways but without the tack.  You get a very dead rubber because of the harder sponge at slow speeds, but when you spin hard, you get good spin and dip.  Unfortunately, I don't think its top end speed will benefit most people who would consider it as many of them would likely opt for a true Chinese rubber.  That said, if you want a Chinese rubber with some catapult but don't like to boost, or want something not tacky and a bit dead in the short game but very spinny on larger strokes, M1T is for you.  Great smashes and decent flat blocks, though it took some adjusting to coming from Tenergy and MX-S.

MX-P was more in my wheel house - like Tenergy 05, but better linearity and control.  That said, my game is largely founded on tactical spin and MX-S suits this better.  With Tenergy 05, you want to slow/medium pace loop and counter most balls, and then loop drive the high ones.  You don't have real smashing options unless you train a lot.  MX-P remedies that by having more control and being less bouncy.  Less easy spin, but decent spin at the medium and top end - blocking and smashing are working, as does passive serve return in some cases.  With MX-S, there is the perception of no easy spin until you play enough to appreciate that you can brush everything and get fantastic spin, but just not the pace and high arc of MX-P unless you use your stroke to create it.  However, the payoff is with the blocking, smashing and loop driving game, whose speed is superior to Tenergy and spin/speed are about the same if you decide to generate it (Tenergy generates it for you).  Since I consider MX-S and T05 brothers in the spin game, I think of MX-P as where I would go to if I was not happy with my out of position strokes with MX-S or my flatter strokes with T05.  But since I am a spin addict, that is not happening anytime soon.  Right now, I love my larger motions with MX-S and are sticking with them.


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Posted By: Rich215
Date Posted: 07/02/2015 at 12:20pm
Ok here are my opinions after the short test period of the Rasant Grip rubber. 

I usded it with my Juic SB Alpha blade with Rakza 7 soft 2.0 for first quick test.  Then the second full club night i used it with a regular Rakza 7 2.0 on the other side.  Big difference in testing with these 2 rubbers. 

First test- Rasant Grip with Rakza 7 Soft

Using the R7 soft the two rubbers were fairly comparable.  The Rasant Grip did bottom out fairly easy for me though.  Pushing was better with the R7S as i could not get as much backspin or more accurate placement with the RG.  The RG also had a tendency to leave my pushes well to high in comparison. 

Looping and hitting were closer in performance, though the RG has a softer feel than the R7S probably because of the top sheet difference in firmness/softness. But they were fairly close and twiddling back and forth during warm up FH counters did not leave me with a feeling that the 2 rubbers were much different in performance and feel for the most part.  It was hard for me to make
a decision when playing games which rubber suited my FH or BH with these 2 choices. 

Service return was probably the biggest factor in figuring out which one worked better for me.  I could get along with either on the FH side and adjust easily there.  But the service return really was had to adjust with the Rasant Grip.  The balls tended to have less control for me and harder to put backspin on the ball with various amounts and placement. 



Second Test with good level match play-  Rasant Grip vs Rakza 7 regular. 

Big difference here!    Not as comparable rubbers as using the soft R7. 

First off while warm up countering on FH couple steps off the table......R7 is way faster and loads more spin easyer.  I had to adjust stroke and be more aggressive to put a good amount of topspin using the Rasant Grip in comparison.  But the RG bottoms out fairly easily.  RG feels close to Xiom OV Europe to me. 

Also the throw angle of RG vs R7 was vastly different.  With the slightly harder sponge and slightly stiffer top sheet on the R7......throw angle is much much lower and my loops are way faster and more deadly because of this.  Though brush looping with the Rasant Grip was not hard and gave good results. 

During my matches I twiddled a lot and it was easy to see the R7 was the better FH rubber with this setup.  Though I found myself twiddling to return aggressive serves with the R7 more than the RG because I could keep the ball much lower. 

Now I am wondering if there is a Rasant variant with the same top sheet but slightly stiffer sponge? 

Also,  i wish the TT11 review rubbers would of all got measured and weighed prior to being cut and used. That would of been really helpful for the ones with info not easily found.

This Rasant Grip test rubber cut is  156x150 at 46gm.   I am also wondering about the "lastability"  of sponge used for the Rasant Grip.  This test rubbers edges look like it crumbles easily, or it was put on several diff blades prior to my use? 

Thanks so much for Tabletennis11 for the chance to test rubbers! 










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Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 07/02/2015 at 12:42pm
Great review Rich215!

Regarding Rakza 7's throw, I thought it to be medium-high and RG's throw to be medium-low but it depends on nature of the strokes, I guess.

I agree on RG feeling similar (but a shade faster) to OVE.

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Posted By: Rich215
Date Posted: 07/02/2015 at 1:08pm
slevin,

on regards to throw angle of Rasant Grip.

R7 regular is lower to me, the soft version of R7 is maybe slightly higher than Rasant grip...

I would have to play with Rasant Grip on both sides for about a month to adjust and give a total view on this throw height comparison with the soft R7.  But regular R7 is much lower for me. 



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Posted By: FlatHitter
Date Posted: 07/10/2015 at 8:47pm
RAKZA X-SOFT "review"
 test is being performed using a DONIC "waldner ultra senso" carbon blade. testing is being done by a player with a u.s.t.t.a rating of 1818
 my first impression when I opened the package...it looks just like a sheet of DONIC "vario big slam" the surface has the same look and I noticed it is "made in germany" same as big slam. power sponge!..hybrid energy!..NSS (non slip sheet) it has all the bells and whistles but, can it perform?
 
 sliding ball grip test-I was surprised! it grips very well with little pressure, I was expecting less grip, looks do not apply here, there is NO TACK on the rubber surface so the NSS is for real, no false advertising.
 bouncing the ball feels normal, no extra effort needed, bouncing the ball harder shows me this rubber will has enough speed to deliver a knockout punch.
 service returns were for the most part normal, nothing special going on here although, I found my forehand rolls to be a little bouncy for me, most of this is bad technique, but I still notice it compared to what I am using now. a small adjustment is needed.

 counter looping close to the table was very good, it makes it easy..
 looping against backspin is good, nothing special. I had some trouble getting them to land on the table, using a brush stroke. perhaps the lack of "tack" on the rubber surface? a small blade angle/arm adjustment fixed this, so it is just a matter of using this rubber for more hours. although I dont think it is the strong point of this rubber.
 "looping the loop"- good! it is really a good rubber when it gets to top spin, counter looping..loop drives..I had a lot of fun with this rubber in competition, as long as im looping....
 when it is time to hit, I dont wast any time...most of the hitting was good, balls landed well..but, not as sharp as my current rubber. I can bottom this rubber pretty easy although it has a "max thick" sponge, I play with 2.0 and dont notice it as much, to me, the sponge feels about the same as what i am using now 42.5 although, i dont bottom my rubber this easy.
 the best feature i could find was SERVES!!! this rubber is a bad ass when it is time to serve, if you use "kick serves" you will see some action...
 BOTTOM LINE- I would buy this rubber in a second, there is no drop in my level from what I am using at this moment. I think it is a very good rubber for anybody that likes to loop. blocking is great!  and it dont cost a ton of money...thanks for your time!
 
 
 



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Posted By: PingPongHolic10
Date Posted: 07/11/2015 at 1:00am

PPH’s TIBHAR EVOLUTION MX-S Rubber Review

Introduction: The Evolution Series from Tibhar has been out for over 2 years now.  Many Pros have begun to use this line.  During Camera close up shots of their rubbers, we don’t see those infamous Moth logos as much as we used to.  MX-S has just been released recently, it’s claimed to be a Plastic Ball “approved” rubber.  Even tho I don’t buy into this hype, having played with plastic balls almost exclusively for almost a full year, I have to reluctantly agree that the rubbers released before the plastic balls are not as proficient.  Slippages happen quite often especially with those rubbers that spins on sponge penetration.  MX-S is the hardest version of the Evolution series.  From appearance, it looks exactly like the Evolution Series other than smaller pore sponge.  The topsheet is medium hard, has more grip than MX-P.  However, texture of topsheet looks smoother & less grainy like MX-P.  I believe it’s smaller pore sponge that is causing this slight change of topsheet appearance.  MX-P has Medium Hardish sponge (~46° ESN Scale), so I assume that MX-S is about a 47.5°.  Glued this rubber as my RPB on my reliable Ludeack Power Mod Cpen with Non Neo TG2.  Rubber is super heavy at ~55grs, dimension is ~ 158x152mm.   

In-Action Sessions: Upon hitting with the setup, I felt in love right away.  The throw is perfect (IMO Medium low), I stay close to the table for RPB.  T05 has a super high throw which doesn’t really accommodate my stroke on BH, but it does have that “Spring Kick”.  MX-S is fairly similar to MX-P whereas MX-P is a hair bouncier.   I can feel the topsheet is providing superb grip to the plastic balls.  Blocking was so easy on my BH wing, not too bouncy, but not dead either like those loose feeling Chinese “Tensors”…  Aurus Sound was excellent at RPB countering hits off loops, but MX-S was surprisingly accurate & deadly as well.  One big notable difference between this & others such as (Aurus Sound, Vega Japan, Sigma II Pro/Euro, & Tenergy) is the over the table flicks.  Those are unforgiving when just a bit out of position cause the ball bounces out of the rubber quicker.  The grip of MX-S has made this part of my game even more dangerous, the ball would still land with spin even when not entirely in the right position.  It just felt right at home, I can open with RPB flicks with a lot of confidence which I don’t get with T05 sometimes.   So stepping a few feet back, the throw changes with my stroke, now it became Mediumish…I didn’t overshoot cause a harder/faster stroke causes the ball to dip more.  MX-S is faster than T05 & MX-P on top gears.  First match Set against a ~1950 BH player.  I can counter BH to BH with him, & the flicks have given me advantage to attack first.  Second set against a ~2150-2200 two winger, usually he would jam me with heavy topspin to my BH, and just spray the ball over the table on his next shots.  MX-S was very stable, & was able to counter block him out of position.  RPB openings also gave me fits.  I was able to hold on & beat him in the fifth.  His Tenergies slipped a lot, just as much as my TG2 since the room was very humid.  MX-S was superb, & outdueling them.  Then later against a ~2200 unorthodox allaround, weird BH player.  He has the best “weird but amazing” counter smashing game on both wings.   I have always had problem playing him cause he has backhand serves which come deep towards my BH with much variation.  I have recently focused more on better game strategy, & was able to receive decently with MX-S.  My RPB was just on fire: counter looping/smashing/hitting pretty well & gave the crowd some awing highlights.  I lost to him in the fifth set even when 10-8 up.   I came back for another set later against him, was down 0-2, & made a huge comeback, & beat him in the fifth.  Unfortunately, I didn’t record these matches.  However, do have some footages from my other sessions to be posted…

Summary: Brush looping, blocking & counters are huge parts of my RPB game which sets up my FH.  MX-S can do all of those things really well except when going away like 3-4ft back.  I have to spin my way back into position.  It plays perfectly for me at close distance, even tho I don’t (try not to) go far that often anymore.  The surprising thing was that this is a max thickness, & I didn’t notice on being uncontrollable on any types of shots.  One thing I worry is the weight of the rubber.  I flipped it occasionally during practice on FH, & it’s pretty spinny.  It’s missing the some speed on out of position strokes on my BH.  I will try this rubber with my handshake ST VIS-A FH & update review after this week.   

Overall: I would definitely invest in this rubber as my “FAV” BH, but might need to get a 1.8/1.9.  Despite not playing with my Ludeack Power in a long while, I was able to produce some amazing results.  This is the type of euphoria that we as TT players look for: A blade or rubbers that give us the confidence to hit the ball our way & still score the point. 

See comparison below:   Abbreviation below are: S2E – Sigma2Euro, S2P – Sigma2Pro, H – High throw, M – Medium throw, MH – Medium High throw.  All these are used on RPB.

Speed (Max Gear): S2E ≥ S2P = T05 = MX-P ≥ MX-S > Aurus Sound

Spin (Kick off first bounce, Throw): T05(H)  ≥ MX-S (M) ≥ MX-P/S2P (MH) > Aurus Sound (M) = S2E (H)

Medium Gear:  S2E > Aurus Sound ≥ T05 =S2P =MX-P = MX-S

Feel: MX-S ≥ MX-P = S2P > T05 ≥ Aurus Sound ≥ S2E

Weight:  MX-S > MX-P = S2P > S2E > T05 > Aurus Sound

Reviewer Credentials: 1900USATT rated, Penholder, 2 wings, Blade: Various 5ply Woods, 7ply Woods, ZX, VIS-A/L.  Preferred Rubbers - FH: Tacky hard sponge, BH: Euro Medium/MS sponge.  (Play Handshake ~1600), 

 

PPH’s XIOM SIGMA 2 EURO Rubber Review

Introduction: The Sigma 2 series was fairly popular cause the ease in producing high spins & have excellent speed.  I played better with S2P than S2E on my RPB with the cell balls.  I am testing S2E again with the plastic balls & see if it will play better vs celluloid.  Glued this rubber as my RPB on my Ludeack Power after tested MX-S.  Rubber is also very heavy at ~55grs, dimension is ~ 158x152mm.  Medium-Softish Topsheet with Medium sponge.  Topsheet not as grippy as the newest generation rubbers such as MX-S/Acuda Ps/Joola Ps,etc.  By bouncing the ball lightly on the rubber, I can feel the ball impacts thru the topsheet & engages into the sponge.  From just spinning the ball on the rubber, it seems that there will be gripping issues, especially in humid environment.  It was very hard for me to graze the ball & produce spin at the same time, sometimes it just comes out as a no-spin floater. 

In-Action Sessions: The rubber does indeed plays softer than its physical characteristics.  It feels like it bottoms out on blocking hard topspins, & driving from RPB.  For a fast & bouncy rubber, the bottoming out effect actually helps to control the speed.  Despite the semi grippiness, it didn’t affect my confidence in opening with RPB especially against underspin.  Smashing, Blocking/Counter blocking is the bread n butter of this rubber at the table, but medium distance looping is among the best over other rubbers.  Don’t get me wrong this rubber can spin better than most rubbers out ATM, counter top spins are more difficult for me to perform cause of the throw & bounciness.  Perhaps it will work even better for players with different stroke & game than me=S.  It sounds pretty loud.  Over the table flicks are not bad, generates a lot of pace. 

Summary: The strengths of this rubber IMO, is the counter blocking, blocking, & medium distance play.  To my surprise, I was able to play at my level pretty well with S2E.  Barely had any slippages with the 2 sessions I had.  This will definitely be one of those rubbers on my list if I need a replacement, something that I would have never think about if it wasn't for Slevin & TT11's testings.  Thank you!

Overall: The comparison is above in the MX-S review…

Reviewer Credentials: Listed in MX-S review…

Vid


Upated 7/21

PPH’s JOOLA MAXXX-P 42.5 Rubber Review

Introduction: Got this courtesy of TT11 & Slevin as well.   Joola came out with 2 new rubbers that is Plastic “ready”.  MAXXX-P & Rhyzm-P.  I have not played with much Joola rubbers other than seeing a lot of reviews regards to Rhyzm.  I have played with Express One, which was a great rubber, but durability is crap=(.  A 1950 player here plays with Energy Extra with TB ZLC, I hated it when I tried it.  From appearance, Maxxx-P looks a lot like Acuda Series.  Topsheet is medium hard, and has a grainy look with likes of those Stiga Tour Series.  Prints Made in Germany.  Yellow sponge is tiny & porous.  It’s said to have 42.5 ESN hardness.  It feels harder when pressing fingers thru, this might be from the medium hard topsheet.  Not as grippy as the Evolution Series, but more than original Acuda Series.  The rubber is fairly light & shrunk already since other members have already tested it.  Dimensions at 152x149mm – 45grs, it will fit into my Yasaka G5 RPB.  By just bouncing the ball on the rubber, it produces a good tensor bounce (not overly bouncy), however doesn’t generate as much spin unless I hit harder into the sponge.  It has a numb feeling to me, whereas something like S2E is bouncy as well, but I feel like I can control the ball. 

In-Action Sessions: Was able to practice with a ~2400 player on my first session.  I focused mainly on my FH during this practice & counters with FH.  I did flip when doing blocking drills with Maxxx-P as the player prefers faster pace than my VlonS on FH.  It generates a lot of speed in countering, but still lacks some spin.  I’ve also tried FH topspins & found that this rubber has a flatter arc then S2E.  I had to hit thru the topsheet to get the ball to arc more.  When doing transition drills from FH back to BH, I had to put extra effort in BH which also reduces my recovery time for FH.  A few times that I was in position, I whipped the ball pass thru him even tho the ball was low.    Blocking is pretty good, as well as counters.  However, I believe a less bouncy & better hand feeling blade will accommodate this rubber just fine!  I will throw it onto my VIS-A with MX-S to test once I have a few more sessions in RPB. 

Summary: I tested for about 30mins on my VIS-A Handshake and find it more suitable for handshake, it can do everything good, lifting underspins, blocking, looping from mid distance.  Since my handshake backhand can produce more powerful shots, this rubber plays entirely different than on my RPB.  I believe the strength of this rubber is generated from the player, and I would recommend this as a FH rubber despite reading the 42.5 hardness scale.  It would be a great backhand rubber for those with a strong wrist & excellent BH game as well.   From G5 to VIS-A, it seems that this rubber has a low throw.  

Overall: The comparison is above in the MX-S review (Updated)…

Reviewer Credentials: Listed in MX-S review…

See comparison below:   Abbreviation below are: S2E – Sigma2Euro, S2P – Sigma2Pro, H – High throw, M – Medium throw, MH – Medium High throw.  All these are used on RPB.

Speed (Max Gear): S2E ≥ S2P = T05 = MX-P ≥ MX-S > Aurus Sound = MaxxP

Spin (Kick off first bounce, Throw): T05(H)  ≥ MX-S (M) ≥ MX-P/S2P (MH) > Aurus Sound (M) = S2E (H) > MaxxP(L)

Medium Gear:  S2E > Aurus Sound ≥ T05 =S2P =MX-P = MX-S = MaxxP

Feel: MX-S ≥ MX-P = S2P > T05 ≥ Aurus Sound ≥ S2E > MaxxP

Weight:  MX-S > MX-P = S2P > S2E > T05 > MaxxP > Aurus Sound 

I have vids, still editing...



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Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 07/14/2015 at 10:49am
Thanks for the reviews everyone! BTW, NextLevel has posted his final thoughts on MX-P & M1T by updating his earlier post (see few posts prior to this one)

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Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 07/15/2015 at 5:55am
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Thanks for the reviews everyone! BTW, NextLevel has posted his final thoughts on MX-P & M1T by updating his earlier post (see few posts prior to this one)

Thanks, slevin.  I think of MX-P as a harder sponge T80 in many respects.  M1T is good, but I am not 100% on who would like that kind of thing because the level of hand speed required to use it would support a more active short game, IMO.


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Posted By: PingPongHolic10
Date Posted: 07/21/2015 at 11:02am
Joola Maxxx-P review up...

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Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 07/21/2015 at 12:50pm
I wanna know how you lay the SMACK down on BH wing with it... :D

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Posted By: PingPongHolic10
Date Posted: 07/21/2015 at 1:01pm
you'll see=P

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Posted By: unstopabl3
Date Posted: 07/21/2015 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Thanks for the reviews everyone! BTW, NextLevel has posted his final thoughts on MX-P & M1T by updating his earlier post (see few posts prior to this one)

Thanks, slevin.  I think of MX-P as a harder sponge T80 in many respects.  M1T is good, but I am not 100% on who would like that kind of thing because the level of hand speed required to use it would support a more active short game, IMO.


Thanks for your review NL.

Which one between MX-S and MX-P would you recommend for a passive BH which consists of mostly blocks+drives+pushes+control on serve returns???


Posted By: unstopabl3
Date Posted: 07/21/2015 at 2:27pm
Originally posted by FlatHitter FlatHitter wrote:

RAKZA X-SOFT "review"
 test is being performed using a DONIC "waldner ultra senso" carbon blade. testing is being done by a player with a u.s.t.t.a rating of 1818
 my first impression when I opened the package...it looks just like a sheet of DONIC "vario big slam" the surface has the same look and I noticed it is "made in germany" same as big slam. power sponge!..hybrid energy!..NSS (non slip sheet) it has all the bells and whistles but, can it perform?
 
 sliding ball grip test-I was surprised! it grips very well with little pressure, I was expecting less grip, looks do not apply here, there is NO TACK on the rubber surface so the NSS is for real, no false advertising.
 bouncing the ball feels normal, no extra effort needed, bouncing the ball harder shows me this rubber will has enough speed to deliver a knockout punch.
 service returns were for the most part normal, nothing special going on here although, I found my forehand rolls to be a little bouncy for me, most of this is bad technique, but I still notice it compared to what I am using now. a small adjustment is needed.

 counter looping close to the table was very good, it makes it easy..
 looping against backspin is good, nothing special. I had some trouble getting them to land on the table, using a brush stroke. perhaps the lack of "tack" on the rubber surface? a small blade angle/arm adjustment fixed this, so it is just a matter of using this rubber for more hours. although I dont think it is the strong point of this rubber.
 "looping the loop"- good! it is really a good rubber when it gets to top spin, counter looping..loop drives..I had a lot of fun with this rubber in competition, as long as im looping....
 when it is time to hit, I dont wast any time...most of the hitting was good, balls landed well..but, not as sharp as my current rubber. I can bottom this rubber pretty easy although it has a "max thick" sponge, I play with 2.0 and dont notice it as much, to me, the sponge feels about the same as what i am using now 42.5 although, i dont bottom my rubber this easy.
 the best feature i could find was SERVES!!! this rubber is a bad ass when it is time to serve, if you use "kick serves" you will see some action...
 BOTTOM LINE- I would buy this rubber in a second, there is no drop in my level from what I am using at this moment. I think it is a very good rubber for anybody that likes to loop. blocking is great!  and it dont cost a ton of money...thanks for your time!
 
 
 



Is it better or worse than Rakza 7 and Rakza 7 Soft???

Is it pre-dominantly for FH only or can be used easily on BH as well???


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 07/21/2015 at 3:15pm
Originally posted by unstopabl3 unstopabl3 wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Thanks for the reviews everyone! BTW, NextLevel has posted his final thoughts on MX-P & M1T by updating his earlier post (see few posts prior to this one)

Thanks, slevin.  I think of MX-P as a harder sponge T80 in many respects.  M1T is good, but I am not 100% on who would like that kind of thing because the level of hand speed required to use it would support a more active short game, IMO.


Thanks for your review NL.

Which one between MX-S and MX-P would you recommend for a passive BH which consists of mostly blocks+drives+pushes+control on serve returns???

Neither - both are rubbers for active play.


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Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: FlatHitter
Date Posted: 07/21/2015 at 3:49pm
I havent played with rakza 7 or soft, so I cant compare the two....I tested rakza-x.
 also, I play with short pips on my backhand trying to test inverted would be useless.
 this is not a test against another rubber or i would use my maxx-p as a quideline, I am testing rakza-x as a stand alone test. I think it is a very good rubber, Im not qualified to do advance level testing, just my 1818 level.


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Posted By: unstopabl3
Date Posted: 10/22/2015 at 3:13pm
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Review: Yasaka Rakza X Soft

Tested: Red, max sheet
Hardness: 42.5 degrees
Dimensions: 169 x 170mm
Weight: 68g

To me, this is a very interesting medium-soft rubber. This is because most of the newer medium-soft rubbers have soft / grippy topsheets (Bluefire JP02, Rasant Grip, Joola Maxxx P, Omega V Europe, etc). This one has a hard / grippy topsheet. The advantages of this are (a) better linearity in spin delivery (b) better synergy with sponge, and (c) better overall control.

Another trait is that it plays harder than it's 42.5 degrees seem to suggest. For example, I felt that it was easier to bottom out the 45 degree Omega V Europe than the RXSoft.

Spin is very good and easy to generate. The resultant arc is very tight. Throw is a touch lower than medium and very uniform.

Overall, this is the best medium soft rubber I've used so far and pairs with more blades than medium-soft rubbers with soft topsheets would (you'd need harder blades for those).





Thanks for the review, can you tell me please how sensitive it is to incoming spin? And is it easy to generate spiny serves with it?


Posted By: unstopabl3
Date Posted: 10/22/2015 at 3:23pm
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Review: Tibhar Evolution MX-S max

I was eagerly anticipating reviewing this rubber after reading all the feedback from the initial adopters.

I tried it on the FH of my 94g Nittaku Barwell Fleet with a Xiom Sigma 2 Euro on the BH side. At the same time, I glued up a new MX-P on my back-up Barwell Fleet so that I could compare the two.

It is heavy - around 54g cut and glued to the 158x151 blade. Brought the weight of my combo to a whopping 201g.

The MX-S is rated as slightly harder than MX-P. If MX-P's sponge is around 47 degrees, MX-S sponge felt like around 50 degrees but its topsheet felt softer than MX-P's. So, all-in, I'd say MX-S feels about 1 degree harder.

The sponge's pores seemed slightly smaller than those of MX-P. The topsheet seemed to be very grippy and of a very high quality.

Upon playing, I was pleasantly surprised: contrary to my pre-conceptions, this rubber, though slower than MX-P, is fast! So, one would not have to worry about putting in an extra effort (so long as you're in position and you have some time).

It certainly felt a touch spinnier than MX-P and the throw was a touch lower. Because of it's slightly softer topsheet, lifting backspin was very easy and the resulting opening loop is very heavy.

I took it to play some 7-8 matches at the club. Here, I saw the qualities that make it a bit difficult to handle.

Because it has a slightly soft topsheet (combined with a hard sponge), I felt that when I tried countering the ball (when out of position), it went into the net. One sees a similar effect while trying to lift (by looping) a low ball.

It needs a level of penetration of rubber into the ball that is higher than that required by other rubbers. Which means that one would need good footwork to use this rubber. It is certainly a lot less forgiving in that regard than MX-P is but the rewards are potentially greater.

Enough of comparing this with MX-P. Now let me compare it to other 50 degree rubbers I've played with (Bluefire M1 Turbo and the Rakza X).

Spin: MX-S > M1T > RX
Throw: M1T > RX > MX-S (RX has more constant throw, MX-S varies from being equal to RX and slightly lower than it)
Speed: M1T > RX = MX-S
Control (ease of use): RX >> M1T > MX-S
My preference: RX > M1T > MX-S
My preference (if I was training 5-7 days a week): MX-S > M1T > RX




Bro, which one would you say is better at serving spiny serves and receiving heavy spiny serves, MX-S or MX-P or RX or RX Soft? Basically better control in serves and serve receiving?


Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 10/22/2015 at 4:12pm
Let's not put RX Soft in that bunch as it is, well, soft (so, very different from the other 3 in many ways). Of the remaining 3, RX would have the most control in serve receive.

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Posted By: unstopabl3
Date Posted: 10/22/2015 at 5:09pm
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Let's not put RX Soft in that bunch as it is, well, soft (so, very different from the other 3 in many ways). Of the remaining 3, RX would have the most control in serve receive.


Thanks, and what about most control during active gameplay?

The thing is I've used R7, R7 Soft and recently RX but just for a couple of weeks before I moved onto Adidas P7. My game has improved a lot as I feel I can loop all day and have great control and consistency. What I feel I'm lacking is power/speed and spin on serves, other than that P7 is great.

So would you say MX-P or RX would be a good alternative to P7 after I get used to them?


Posted By: asifgunz
Date Posted: 10/22/2015 at 5:19pm
you looking for a fh rubber or bh rubber? and what blade are you planning to use.

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Posted By: unstopabl3
Date Posted: 10/22/2015 at 5:26pm
Originally posted by asifgunz asifgunz wrote:

you looking for a fh rubber or bh rubber? and what blade are you planning to use.


FH replacement for P7 and I'm currently using YEO+YEO Power 7 but will use Viscaria in the future.


Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 10/22/2015 at 5:31pm
Originally posted by unstopabl3 unstopabl3 wrote:


The thing is I've used R7, R7 Soft and recently RX but just for a couple of weeks before I moved onto Adidas P7. My game has improved a lot as I feel I can loop all day and have great control and consistency. What I feel I'm lacking is power/speed and spin on serves, other than that P7 is great.

So would you say MX-P or RX would be a good alternative to P7 after I get used to them?

Not MX-P - it would be too fast.

As you know your game better than I and you've tried RX & P7, I won't comment on that rubber's fit then.


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Posted By: unstopabl3
Date Posted: 10/22/2015 at 5:36pm
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Originally posted by unstopabl3 unstopabl3 wrote:


The thing is I've used R7, R7 Soft and recently RX but just for a couple of weeks before I moved onto Adidas P7. My game has improved a lot as I feel I can loop all day and have great control and consistency. What I feel I'm lacking is power/speed and spin on serves, other than that P7 is great.

So would you say MX-P or RX would be a good alternative to P7 after I get used to them?

Not MX-P - it would be too fast.

As you know your game better than I and you've tried RX & P7, I won't comment on that rubber's fit then.


Haha, so in other words I can't be certain unless I try it eh?
I found P7 to be a bit slow, especially far from the table, so MX-P might be a good test :P

I'll also try to get a hold of RX again and see if I can compare it with P7.

Btw have you tried EL-P???


Posted By: SmackDAT
Date Posted: 10/22/2015 at 5:48pm
Originally posted by unstopabl3 unstopabl3 wrote:

Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Originally posted by unstopabl3 unstopabl3 wrote:


The thing is I've used R7, R7 Soft and recently RX but just for a couple of weeks before I moved onto Adidas P7. My game has improved a lot as I feel I can loop all day and have great control and consistency. What I feel I'm lacking is power/speed and spin on serves, other than that P7 is great.

So would you say MX-P or RX would be a good alternative to P7 after I get used to them?

Not MX-P - it would be too fast.

As you know your game better than I and you've tried RX & P7, I won't comment on that rubber's fit then.


Haha, so in other words I can't be certain unless I try it eh?
I found P7 to be a bit slow, especially far from the table, so MX-P might be a good test :P

I'll also try to get a hold of RX again and see if I can compare it with P7.

Btw have you tried EL-P???
MX-P isn't too uncontrollable, depending on your blade. It is definitely fast, but on my TB ALC it isn't too fast by any means.


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Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 10/22/2015 at 9:29pm
If I could have one wish right now, it would be to have a 5 min video of everyone who has described how they play or how others play on the last year or so on this site. I try to understand what some people write and it always leaves me intrigued, moreso because people who actually play me often say that my description of my own game is inaccurate. And this is despite having watched myself many more times than the typical player.

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Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 01/14/2016 at 6:52pm
This TT11 testing thread concludes.

For further TT11 rubber testing, please visit http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=73730&title=tabletennis11com-testing-opportunity" rel="nofollow - here .

Congrats to pingpongholic10: he wins a OSP Virtuoso+ blade for submitting the best (written & video) reviews! Clap


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Posted By: ThePongProfessor
Date Posted: 01/15/2016 at 12:51am
Once again, thank you slevin for arranging this test - For me, this test resulted in a change from medium-soft to medium-hard FH rubbers (P7/Tenzone Ultra SF --> MX-P). At first, I did not enjoy the harder rubbers, but re-testing the MX-P, M1T and MX-S swayed my mind...Congrats to PPH

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