Falco Tempo Booster - legal or not?
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Topic: Falco Tempo Booster - legal or not?
Posted By: carbon136
Subject: Falco Tempo Booster - legal or not?
Date Posted: 08/14/2015 at 11:47am
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I haven't found the answer yet, so I'm asking you here: Is this VOC-free booster legal or not? Or are all the boosters banned? Or are they banned, but nobody cares unless it's big ITTF tournament?
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Replies:
Posted By: asifgunz
Date Posted: 08/14/2015 at 12:10pm
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NOT LEGAL. even falco themselves tell you it's not legal. -------------  "I do not have any idols. I am my own idol." - Zhang Jike Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71761&PN=1#905629 |
Posted By: carbon136
Date Posted: 08/14/2015 at 12:43pm
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ITTF advice on use of this product Megaspin.net consulted ITTF about whether using this product complies with ITTF regulations. We were told you cannot boost a sponge without an influence on the top sheet and we were referred to the law below: 2.04.07 The racket covering shall be used without any physical, chemical or other treatment. Falco's statement regarding ITTF regulation compliance of their boosters As stated by the ITTF, a racket covering should be used as it has been approved. The ITTF does not approve a racket covering, but rather the  Top-sheet  (the black or red rubber). Then manufacturers may choose a type of sponge that could hard or soft, thin or thick, boosted or not! Moreover, any player may change the sponge and use the sponge of his choice (this is very common in Asia). So Falco boosting is 100% legitimate: this technique does not touch the approved rubber since it only  boosts  the sponge previously unglued." It seems like Falco has changed their attitude(?). Found here: http://www.megaspin.net/store/default.asp?pid=falco-tempo-long-booster" rel="nofollow - https://www.megaspin.net/store/default.asp?pid=falco-tempo-long-booster |
Posted By: asifgunz
Date Posted: 08/14/2015 at 3:36pm
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Oh wow. Thats news to my ears. Might have to get a jar . ------------- "I do not have any idols. I am my own idol." - Zhang Jike Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71761&PN=1#905629 |
Posted By: berndt_mann
Date Posted: 08/14/2015 at 3:57pm
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I don't see how the Falco booster could not touch the underside of any ITTF approved topsheet. The booster may only boost the previously unglued sponge, but how can it not adhere somewhat to the reverse side of a topsheet? It seems to me as though Falco is doing some rationalizing, IMO faulty, to justify the use of their rather expensive product. Great balls of fire! Has table tennis been taken over by aliens from the planet Sunmoon or what? Does anybody, from club conqueror to international level pong god/goddess really need this happy horse manure to play this friggin' sport? ------------- bmann1942 Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
Posted By: carbon136
Date Posted: 08/14/2015 at 3:57pm
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That ITTF rule is just stupid, because acorrding to it, even heating up the rubber with a hairdryer to make it softer would be illegal (I do it).
And how does ITTF check the rubbers if they are boosted on tournaments? They have some special expensive machine, don't they?
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Posted By: Matt Pimple
Date Posted: 08/14/2015 at 4:28pm
There is no expensive machine to test for booster since it is virtual VOC free. The only way to fail a racket test is if you boosted too much and you exceed the maximum allowed thickness. ------------- OSP Ultimate; Dr. Neubauer Dominance Spin Hard max, Dr. Neubauer Troublemaker 0.5 http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55835&title=feed-back-for-matt-pimple" rel="nofollow - My Feedback |
carbon136 wrote:Posted By: carbon136
Date Posted: 08/14/2015 at 4:31pm
Do you know that for sure? :) If it's a truth, then everybody could boost, even top players...
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Posted By: asifgunz
Date Posted: 08/14/2015 at 4:55pm
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Not all, but the majority of players boost. There are dozens of threads regarding top players and boosted rubbers. Now, so enez wont detect falco tempo long what so ever? ------------- "I do not have any idols. I am my own idol." - Zhang Jike Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71761&PN=1#905629 |
Posted By: wturber
Date Posted: 08/14/2015 at 5:28pm
Which is a violation of a separate rule. In fact, years ago when the ENEZ was just coming out, either the company that produced the ENEZ or someone else related speculated that about 60% of the rubbers that had been speedglued would have been detectable if a simple 4mm thickness test had been performed. ------------- Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
Posted By: wturber
Date Posted: 08/14/2015 at 5:35pm
I watched a rather funny/sad US Open Men's Final where the player's rubber was separating from his blade - presumabely because of the boosting that was making the rubber non-flat and more difficult to adhere to the blade. IMO, the blade should have been rendered as unfit for play. My understanding is that more players began to use edge tape at this time to help keep the edges of their rubbers attached. As for the booster touching the rubber topsheet, that really isn't the point. The point would be whether or not the booster directly affects the characteristics of the rubber top sheet. ------------- Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
Posted By: berndt_mann
Date Posted: 08/14/2015 at 5:36pm
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And many more speedglued rubbers would have been detectable, Jay, if the edge tape were taken off the rubber and the rubber found to go beyond, sometimes as much as an eighth of an inch, the edge itself of a blade. An old tried and true speedgluer's trick. What would hardcore speed gluers have done without edge tape, a hardcore speed gluer's best friend?
------------- bmann1942 Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
Posted By: wanhao
Date Posted: 08/14/2015 at 11:54pm
| Boosting is the way to go. Why bother even if we boost 100 layers we cant be world champions right? So i will continue to boost my chinese rubbers forever. |
Posted By: IanMcg
Date Posted: 08/15/2015 at 2:19am
But you can totally tell when there's rubber overhang beneath edge tape. It's painfully obvious.
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Posted By: carbon136
Date Posted: 08/15/2015 at 6:18am
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You seem to be talking about really heavy boosting. I only meant boosting with 1 or 2 thin layers, to have a better feeling for the ball, and a bit softer rubber. I guess the only problem would be if the rubber would become too soft, or thicker than 4mm... |
Posted By: mercuur
Date Posted: 08/15/2015 at 6:26am
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I boosted my chinese rubbers from a few years before the glue ban because I preferred this over speedgluing. Then after the speedglueban it was allowed for a year or so. Then suddenly without health reasons or other understandable reason this was declared illegal a few months before or after tenergy 05 entered the market. Offcourse this helped to make that rubber a world wide succes even more. This is suspicious to me as Butterfly sponsors many national boards and trough this position they can influence ittf members representing these boards for making decisions convenient for Butterfly. Other brands also but fact is that Butterfly has the most powerfull position from largest sponsor investments with most dependancy from boards and other organisations in tabletennis coming with it. I am not sure they abbused this position but I am suspicious they did because of the otherwise very coincidental timeschedule combined with the - further - stupidity of the glueban with no real other reasons that I can think of. To disprove my suspicion Ittf should have come up with a legit understandable reason and they haven't. That,s why I have ignored the rule consekwently to my suspicion being strong enough. With being unfair this has nothing to do. The tought behind that idea of unfairness is that when all people live by a rule circumstances are equal for all. Circumstances would with same logic be even when everyone ignores a rule. These equalities are both theorethical illusions. Real equality exists for the fact that everyone can ignore or obey a rule deciding for themselve which is not necessarily thinking of own profit only. ------------- |
Posted By: Tassie52
Date Posted: 08/15/2015 at 6:56am
Real equality exists if "everyone can ignore or obey a rule deciding for themselves"! I love it! Rules I now choose to ignore:
Come on, guys, everybody here knows the answer to the original question. Some choose to play table tennis. Others choose to pretend they're not cheating.
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Posted By: mercuur
Date Posted: 08/15/2015 at 4:36pm
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Maybe you misread or I was not clear enough but while quoting me your adding an if that was not in my post. It,s fact that anyone can follow a rule or not follow a rule and that this does not conflikt with equality. I always drive on the right side of the road (in my country this is rule) for me and others safety but not for equality. Driving right side is an integrated gamerule for taking part in the trafic. Tabletennis also has game rules for no more reason then tabletennis and that a game is impossible without rules. Racquets are not a part of the game as the playfield and ball are. Not in the same manner. In traffic analogy they must be compared with the bikes and cars and rules for that such as maximum drive speed, funktional brakesystem aso. The maximum drive speed and spincapabillities of my racquet and many others using self tuned rubbers does not exceed common speed and spin possibillities and when someone would want to tune tenergies and use them at my level .....the better the more as far as I'm concerned. You can decide to ignore all the rules you mention and except the risk of loosing a point, being diskwalified in a match or a tournament. What,s dishonnest about that ? Dishonnest would be when you would not openly ignore these rules. I can,t see how that is possible with these example rules. But I,m still glad you found my post hillarious. I remembered the time order again : Tenergy 05 entered the market a few months after the tuner ban. So my question is if the tunerban was a market preparation for Tenergy. I,m questioning this because I find this circumstance suspect given that players have been changing topsheets by speed gluing rubbers for decades without any problem for the ittf. Why did that all of a sudden become an issue for ittf ? ------------- |
Posted By: mercuur
Date Posted: 08/17/2015 at 5:19am
I can,t find any faktory tuned rubber aproved seperately from the non tuned versions in the larc list. So when I have an uncle charley working for a tabletennis or even a chocolate factory can I ask them to tune my rubbers to them faktory tuned and me a more honnest player ? Or are all factory tuned rubbers illegal because factory tuning also implies changing the topsheets as approved by ittf and is ittf just not testing for this ? As technical information : Factory tuned could be tuning the sponge first and then connect it with a non tuned topsheet. In that case the topsheet gradually becomes tuned in the package from taking over tuner from the sponge. Factory tuned rubbers would develop a strong reversed dome before they come in use. As they hardly have a stronger dome then tensor rubber Ft rubbers are apparently not using a ft tuned sponge only. To avoid a strong reversed doming they must be made as untuned versions first and then the whole rubber is tuned with the topsheet expansion avoiding a reversed dome. When the ittf would make this illegal a brand as Dhs would still be able to do this as integrated part of the produktion process and have a single tuned topsheet approved for the larc list under a different name such as hurricane III neo. They only have to pay an additional fee for that and it will be the same topsheet as the hurricane III with just larger pimple distance from tuning out of the mold (just as speedglue did before with the normal hurricanes). To avoid this ittf should have to control the produktion process inside the faktories to ensure that faktories don,t change the topsheets after taking them out of the molds for testing by ittf. Plus testing all rubbers at tournaments for same pimple distance as the larc list example had. Then dhs can probably throw a few molds away that where used for some rubbers because the pimple distance is too short without tuning between mold and ittf testing. Same then for all rubbers where the topsheets and sponges are tuned seperately by a tuner/softener bath after molding and then sponge and topsheet welded together (gluing doesn,t work anymore with too much tuner and softener substances). Probably that implies that all tensors and tenergies become illegal as wel because I hardly believe that rubber builds some kind of tension when it solidifies in a mold. That,s probably just insinuated by esn marketing. Ittf could approve this method of produktion and forbid tuning after gluing or welding topsheet and sponge together but either way it implies controlling the produktion process inside the factories. Question is who or what would be served by this ? Fairness ? . ------------- |
Posted By: carbon136
Date Posted: 08/17/2015 at 8:09am
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Have you seen this video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTCbpWmPzTY" rel="nofollow - ITTF Racket Control The test is: checking if the rubbers are on the LARC list, flatness, thickness, VOCs getting into the air, glossiness, general appearance (broken edges,...). I'm a bit surprised they don't test the rubber bounce somehow, because boosting increases it. Also they measure only VOCs, so any VOC-free boosted rubbers should pass this test.
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Posted By: mercuur
Date Posted: 08/17/2015 at 9:28am
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A bounce test says little with all different blades underneath I think. But also think of what it would imply when they really tested for boosting . Butterfly sponsors several pro players such as Boll and can make and supply special Tenergies for them with a stronger glue effect with ease. The only negativ would be (apart from lesser control) a shorter life and less constant playing characteristics but this is not relevant for the pro's. Sponge thickness is easy to maintain by starting with sponge of adapted thickness, With sharper control on boosting the prp players using Tenergy but not sponsored by Butterfly would have to use the market version of Tenergy instea d of equal rubbers as Butterfly sponsored players. My opinion the best solution for players would be that the ittf obliges brands that sell tensor/tension/Ft rubbers also sell the substances they use for the tension/tensor/Ft effect in a bottle to buy with the rubbers for maintenance of the inbuild glue effect or increasing the glue effect. The later is not something that the majority of players would profit from anyway. Or allow Falco tuner and the likes because in praxis it,s more or less the same stuff....Suitable for boosting but also as conditioner for longer live of the inbuild glue effect of no matter what glue effect rubber. The only real reason they don't allow it, at least that I can think of and makes sense to me, is that ittf don,t allow these - other brand - tuners to protect the rubber selling brands for selling lesser numbers of rubbers. Too many would return to buying and using cheaper classic and chinese rubbers plus a cheap booster instead of the much more expensive glue effect rubbers. Even the expensive boosters are cheap then in comparison with current rubber prices (driven up by players competing with each other and more willing to pay from that). ------------- |
Posted By: AndySmith
Date Posted: 08/17/2015 at 10:09am
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If the ITTF were really serious about preventing "illegal" boosting (i.e. not done by the manufacturer) by the pros then they would source and fit the rubbers for them at the start of each tournament. Each pro would tell them what they want, and the ITTF would go and buy them from a random store, off the shelf, and glue them on in a controlled environment. So Ma Long would get a sheet of commercial H3 Neo from ttnpp (or perhaps a fake blue sponge national), unboosted. But they're not really serious about this issue at all. (edit - sorry, I just realised that this sounded too serious - meant as lighthearted tongue in cheek nonsense)
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Posted By: notfound123
Date Posted: 08/17/2015 at 11:42am
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Another booster that is nearly VOC-free is X-Treme Power Booster. And it's long-lasting too. If one applies it to a rubber that's not too thick (i.e. 2.0 or 2.1) and then neatly trims the excess after the expansion... how would they EVER detect it?
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Posted By: Kolev
Date Posted: 08/17/2015 at 12:01pm
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I adore reboosting my Stigm II Euro. I guess that should be perfectly legal .... ------------- Hallmark Carbon Extreme (x3) FH: D05/G1/RX BH: Z2/D64/Ω7Pro |
Posted By: DreiZ
Date Posted: 08/27/2015 at 9:57am
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what type of WBG do you guys use with Falco boosted rubber? Will Elmer's RC work with Falco boosted rubber?
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Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 08/27/2015 at 10:32am
I've used Tearmender with v good results. ------------- Trade feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787 |
Posted By: Matt Pimple
Date Posted: 08/27/2015 at 11:21am
Yes Elmer's RC works fine with Falco booster. I used that combination for a while and never had any problems. ------------- OSP Ultimate; Dr. Neubauer Dominance Spin Hard max, Dr. Neubauer Troublemaker 0.5 http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55835&title=feed-back-for-matt-pimple" rel="nofollow - My Feedback |
Posted By: ZingyDNA
Date Posted: 08/27/2015 at 12:04pm
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Let me ask you this question: If you go in a club and ask for a game in which you will ignore your rules 1 to 5, would you be able to get anyone to play you? However, if I go in a club and openly tell people I boosted my rubbers, I bet 99% of the people will play me regardless...
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Posted By: Tinykin
Date Posted: 08/27/2015 at 12:35pm
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Is anyone else as bored as me over this booster issue? Comeon guys, DHS is now one of ITTF's biggest sponsor. DHS has no rubber that compare with tenergy. Do really think that the ITTF will enact measures that will ban the equipment as used by the CNT and issued by their (ITTF and CNT) biggest source of non-government cash? Let's move on. ------------- Blade: Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
Posted By: ahsq
Date Posted: 09/08/2015 at 4:29pm
i disagree. DHS may have no rubber that can compare with tenergy in public, but try ask the CNT to not use H3 National. ------------- FS: Xiom Vega Pro ST 85 grams $80 shipped Donic Waldner Senso Carbo JO shaped ST $40 shipped |
Posted By: mog1111
Date Posted: 07/13/2016 at 4:33am
This is the best post I have ever read on any forum on any subject. FANTASTIC! |
Posted By: taczkid
Date Posted: 07/13/2016 at 9:12am
According to weird ITTF Rules, everything is banned  All I have to say to that is F..K IT! If booster makes you better player, it gives you better click sound therefore you enjoy the game more than I don't see the reason why not to boost. If it is VOC free then it is not detected so you will perfectly be fine on all the tournaments. Everybody uses boosters, tuners etc There are many players who don't even know that they are boosting by simply cleaning their rubbers with Kutchen soap, oil, alcohol, hand sanitizer etc, all of this stuff sort of boosts your rubber It really makes me laugh every time I see this one Match I think it was in World Cup (I have to find it and post a link to it) where in the final or semifinal of such big tournament Xu Xin hits the table with the racket, then shows to umpire and then next thing that happens just blows my mind... He cuts with his own scissors about 0.5 inch of rubber all around-haha How did ITTF allow this, and obviously anyone who ever tried Chinese rubbers they are simply supper slow, but somehow all the Chinese players hit boolets (its simple they all boost or they already receive highly boosted rubbers-vacuum packed etc). So in my opinion do whatever you feel like doing, as long as it makes you better player and you enjoy the game :-) If ITTF banned boosters because they modify how rubber performs, then how about they ban all the CUSTOM blades, or the ones you sand with paper, the ones with added weight tape strips, the ones with shortened lengthened handles etc,,, All these are somehow changing the characteristics of the blade therefore they should be banned lol Of course I am being sarcastic here, but to be honest in some cases booster will help you in some it will not. As far as the question goes, FALCO is perfectly legal - you know why? Because it is VOC FREE just like any other glue that is voc free meaning it will never be detected  The only reason why FALCO says on their website and in the description of the label that it is NOT LEGAL is basically because of the STUPID ittf rule and they want to make them happy and want to be sort of in a legal agreement with ITTF so ITTF for example will not ban FALCO banners, barriers and other AD's from major tournaments. Simply FAlco has to SAY "we comply with ITTF rule and it is illegal" <-- bunch of kaka if you ask me. If you cant detect it is legal!!! FYI: None of the tournaments at least in US (3 star and lower) can afford $500+ to actually test rubbers. Not only that what many do is have 2 identical rackets/paddles one boosted one is not, they take non boosted to the umpire it passed then they warm up, go to their towel bag, toss the racket in the bag - take a sip of their Gatorade and pick up the BOOSTED racket that simply happens to be in the same bag :-) Then it is time to start the game
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Posted By: wanhao
Date Posted: 07/13/2016 at 7:44pm
| Until we are at professional level..we shouldnt concern about boosting Falcon or Seamoon. |
Posted By: wturber
Date Posted: 07/13/2016 at 8:15pm
And why would they? I have yet to see a USATT rule that bans VCs or VOCs. Maybe some day they'll actually change to rules to match what they are enforcing? ------------- Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
Posted By: wturber
Date Posted: 07/13/2016 at 8:24pm
Oops! I'm wrong. They apparently fixed this on August 22, 2015. They apparently stopped publishing their own set of rules and have now adopted the ITTF rules in total excepting specific modifactions that are given in this two-page document. http://www.teamusa.org/USA-Table-Tennis/Features/2015/November/09/USA-Table-Tennis-Rules" rel="nofollow - http://www.teamusa.org/USA-Table-Tennis/Features/2015/November/09/USA-Table-Tennis-Rules ------------- Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
Posted By: eonblue
Date Posted: 07/13/2016 at 8:42pm
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I feel like the only person who plays worse after boosting with FTL. -500 points ago it seemed like an advantage but now I just end up missing more. If I could magically jump from 1800 to 2000 by boosting you can bet I would with no concern for the rule. ------------- Michael Maze ALC Volt-T/Volt-M |
Posted By: wturber
Date Posted: 07/13/2016 at 8:53pm
My general impression is that fast and spinny equipment is a double-edged sword for players at around 2000 and below (which means the vast majority of players). At around 2000 level and below, what many gain in speed, spin and power with the faster stuff doesn't fully compensate for what they lose in ability to cope with their opponents speed, spin and power. Of course, this varies by player and playing style. Above 2000, I think that boosting and fast/spinny gear tends to be a solid advantage since most players at that level have strong enough fundamentals so that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. ------------- Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
Posted By: Tinykin
Date Posted: 07/14/2016 at 4:39pm
Is this legal? That is, warming up with one bat but choosing to play with another? ------------- Blade: Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
Posted By: wturber
Date Posted: 07/14/2016 at 5:05pm
Once the umpire has inspected the racket, you cannot change. In a non-umpired match, it would be assumed that warming up is an equivalent point in time for the match. Further, you are not allowed to go to your bag, get a drink or talk to your coach between the two minute warm-up and the beginning of game 1. Play starts immediately after warm-up. One reason you must leave the racket at the table between games and during timeouts is to avoid changing or altering the racket (there are exceptions made for players who must strap the racket to their hand/arm). Leaving it on the table keeps it in plane site of the umpire. Note how other racket sports do not have this issue. ------------- Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
Posted By: wturber
Date Posted: 07/14/2016 at 5:06pm
------------- Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |