Hard Topsheets vs Soft Topsheets
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Topic: Hard Topsheets vs Soft Topsheets
Posted By: ahsq
Subject: Hard Topsheets vs Soft Topsheets
Date Posted: 10/02/2015 at 2:02pm
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What are the advantages and disadvantages of Soft topsheets with medium big pore sponge (42.5-47.5)(Joola Maxxx450 max) against hard topsheets with say medium-hard big pore sponge(45-50)(MX-P or O5P) on the same side of the blade? I dont think there is a soft topsheet with HARD sponge or a hard topsheet with SOFT sponge, but I could be wrong? I have to use more(30-40%) force with the soft topsheet to generate the same result with harder topsheets on forehand topspin THe ball wont even bounce back over the net on a backhand block against a fast smash or a topspin on a soft topsheet where as the harder topsheet would, O5P excels here. Generally speaking I feel soft topsheets are like 60% of what hard topsheets with harder sponge would do..... Is soft topsheets preferred by defenders or dwell time seekers?
------------- FS: Xiom Vega Pro ST 85 grams $80 shipped Donic Waldner Senso Carbo JO shaped ST $40 shipped |
Replies:
Posted By: Danzors
Date Posted: 10/03/2015 at 12:00pm
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bump, I'm definitely interested in this answer as well. ------------- Tibhar KJH Xiom Vega Pro |
Posted By: vajica
Date Posted: 10/03/2015 at 7:53pm
Controlled looping :) That is why I still can't find a replacement for Adidas P7 (soft top sheet on 47.5 sponge) |
ahsq wrote:Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 10/03/2015 at 9:50pm
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Hard tops are easier to brush loop ------------- Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
Posted By: adishorul
Date Posted: 11/24/2015 at 12:39pm
| I think is easier to topspin the ball with soft topsheet rubber eg tibhar aurus soft topsheet hard sponge very easy to control the ball, nice dwell time, rakza 7 hard sponge hard topsheet less control. |
Posted By: Magic_M
Date Posted: 11/24/2015 at 1:14pm
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Very good players will definitely prefer the harder topsheet, because they are able to produce more spin with it. But for "normal" players it is not easy to generate this max. spin. Harder topsheets (especially combined with hard sponge) need a perfect technique. Otherwise you will produce too much mistakes. Soft topsheets combined with hard sponge are the better solution for players like me, because it is much easier to produce spin - not extreme spin, but definitely enough spin for most opponents. Soft and slow looping is really easy. If you try to attack with fast looping or smashing, the hard sponge helps a lot. Otherwise (with soft sponge) the complete rubber would be too mushi. Besides Adidas P7 there are some more rubbers with this combination (soft and spinny topsheet and hard sponge), for example Donic Acuda Blue P1 (my actual choice). ------------- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=51774&title=feedback-magic-m" rel="nofollow - My Feedback |
Posted By: Victor_the_cleaner
Date Posted: 11/24/2015 at 1:32pm
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hard offers more control at any power. More spin/speed at max power. But soft offers more spin at low and medium power.
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Posted By: mjamja
Date Posted: 11/24/2015 at 2:33pm
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Yogi, You said hard topsheets are easier to use when brush looping. It seems counter-intuitive to me. I would think that with a hard topsheet and brushing contact it would be harder to get a grip on the ball because the topsheet would not deform as much to grip the ball. That might result in slippage. Do I have a misunderstanding about what is needed for a brush loop? Why is a hard topsheet better for a brush loop? I am not disagreeing with your opinion (I do not have enough experience to even form a good one). Your comment makes me think that I might not understand what are the differences between a brush loop and a driving loop and especially not understand how the topsheet and sponge react to the ball with these strokes. I would appreciate any more detailed insight you could share. Mark
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Posted By: AMonteiro
Date Posted: 11/24/2015 at 2:54pm
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I find easier to generate heavy spin with hard topsheets but is more demanding, need more effort to get full potential of the rubber. For me, it's also easier to counter topspin and conter drive with it compared to soft topsheets, because softer ones catapult too much. I hope to keep a decent fit and level to use such type of rubber on my FH for long time. ------------- Dynaryz AGR /Yasaka Goiabao 5 / Dynaryz AGR |
Posted By: Victor_the_cleaner
Date Posted: 11/24/2015 at 2:56pm
you are 100% correct in your reasoning and conclusion. I myself didn't understand why Yogi said that that but i am confident it is this way and not the other way around. Yogi knows his stuff so probably he meant something else.
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Posted By: gekogark1212
Date Posted: 11/29/2015 at 5:45pm
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This is because with a hard topsheet it is harder to deform, so you keep the rubber on a low gear as opposed to engaging the sponge, which gives you speed along with the spin. ------------- (\__/) (='.'=) But there's no sense crying over every mistake, (")_(") You just keep on trying till you run out of cake. |
Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 11/30/2015 at 9:27am
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When i say brush loop it is to contact the ball thinly and as what gekogark said in low gear. So it doesn't go through the sponge much (the ball). I forgot to add that it is easier to brush loop on hard rubbers especially if you k ow how to use hard chinese rubbers. ------------- Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
Posted By: Leftyy
Date Posted: 12/01/2015 at 1:09pm
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I think harder topsheets is better when i comes to serve. Easier to get a good touch and keep it low over the net. |
Posted By: mjamja
Date Posted: 12/01/2015 at 1:31pm
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Thanks Yogi, For that kind of brush loop (hard topsheet not deforming to engage sponge) can you do it with non-tacky rubbers? If so is it harder to do with non-tacky rubbers or is it just different technique? Mark
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Posted By: adishorul
Date Posted: 12/01/2015 at 3:06pm
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I think we are debating 2 different subject Chinese rubber and euro japanese rubber, somehow everybody understand the topic is about rubber he is using, so now the subject is really mixed up :) Let's talked about euro japanese, because to talk about original chinese rubber and soft topsheet is just a funny joke. |
Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 12/01/2015 at 3:11pm
I would think you would require a tackier topsheet if you have a harder rubber. Sure, you can sink the ball into the harder rubber if you have the stroke, but then it's not really a brush loop, is it? ------------- Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
Posted By: gekogark1212
Date Posted: 12/01/2015 at 4:23pm
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Hard topsheet and no tack is really not much fun to play with. Think that Dawes in spirit rubber. *shudders* granted, some people make it work, but for me it is in my top 10 hated rubbers. ------------- (\__/) (='.'=) But there's no sense crying over every mistake, (")_(") You just keep on trying till you run out of cake. |
Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 12/01/2015 at 8:24pm
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I can brush loop with mxp and adidas tenzone in low gears with no problem. I think the sponge is also a factor not just the topsheet. A harder sponge also contributes to the way you brush contact the ball ------------- Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
Posted By: a23096713
Date Posted: 12/01/2015 at 9:25pm
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Assuming the sponge is the same (a average rubber sponge). Hard top-sheet will definitely be easier to do a control brush loop. Hard top sheet deform less in normal speed. Assuming you swing fast, the rubber doesn't bounce off the rubber as the hard rubber doesn't sink the ball into the rubber as much. You reduce the rubber's own bouncing effect to minimum. In return, you got way more control. Soft rubber tend to bite into the ball more but in the same time it also repel the ball off the rubber faster at normal speed (unless a super soft defensive rubber) you might not has the same amount of time to impact the spin as much at slow or normal speed. It is easier to make a mistake a normal brush loop with a softer rubber than a harder rubber. But soft rubber is extremely easier to do mid distance looping. When you got enough time to do bigger swing loops. Rubber bite into the soft top sheet easy and also bounce off easier. The ball will travel further with more power. Hard rubber will require you to use more force to make the ball travel further. ------------- Chop, Chop, and Counter Loop! BTY Cutlass + Tackiness D + Feint OX TSP Astron Yellow + Yasaka Original + Nittaku pimplemini One TSP Yanagi + UQ + BTY OX |
Posted By: right2niru
Date Posted: 12/02/2015 at 12:34am
I will have to agree here with yogi's point and in my own experience - harder top sheets(with right hardness at least 45 deg tensor) are excellent for brush looping . Its slightly different contact than when you use the sponge . ------------- ZJK SZLC |5Q+ |