802-40, 802 or Spectol?
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Topic: 802-40, 802 or Spectol?
Posted By: auzcar
Subject: 802-40, 802 or Spectol?
Date Posted: 05/11/2016 at 10:31am
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Sorry for this question since I know that there are lots of info about these rubbers around, I just can't seem to decide what to go for atm and just want some quick opinions on the differences. A while ago, about 5 weeks now, I switched to SP on my BH and just a week ago I got my P700 which I really like already. It's only the SP that I still feel a tad uncertain about, so far I've been using 802-40 Super Soft 2.2mm which have worked much better than I expected. Actually the whole switch have been going very smooth considering that I come from an OX LP FH-dominated game like Fabian Åkerström/Liu Song. I would be fine with keeping the 802-40 but sometimes it feels a tad slow and a tad grippy, on the other hand sometimes I really like those characteristics as well. I think that I could get rid of the speed problem by boosting it (which I've planned to try but haven't yet) but I fear that it would make it play even more like inverted than it already does. My game on BH is pretty aggressive and mostly consists of driving/lifting on backspin and aggressive counterhitting close to the table. I really like the 802-40 on beckspin but feel like it grips a bit much over the table sometimes when I try to flick/punch on a short serve for example. I've done some research and I think that I'm gonna restrict my choices to either keeping the 802-40 or trying the 802 or the TSP Spectol. I suspect that the 802 would need boosting as well, just like the 802-40. I prefer to stick to the classics that I know are good rubbers since I've been deep down in the EJ swamp before and I'm trying my very best not to end up there again this time. Any opinions on these? |
Replies:
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 05/11/2016 at 11:35am
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FWIW, the really good SP players I have known really like Spectol. Definitelyh less grippy than 802-40, and probably a touch faster. |
Posted By: auzcar
Date Posted: 05/11/2016 at 12:30pm
| Yeah it seems to be the default choice at higher levels for the game I want to play. There's a lot of players using other SP's as well of course but those seem to be pretty widely and evenly spread out amongst other popular SP's. |
Posted By: TT newbie
Date Posted: 05/11/2016 at 12:34pm
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I´ve already hit with both SP. Spectol is much less spinny them 802-40. But if you like the softness of the DHS you could try Spectol 21. Its sponge is softer and faster than regular Spectol. Personally I don´t like any of these. I like more tension SP like Yasaka Xtend PO or Rakza PO.
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Posted By: GeneralSpecific
Date Posted: 05/11/2016 at 12:35pm
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If you just switched to short pips and are using 802-40 already, keep using 802-40 for a few months at least so you can fully get used to short pips. Pretty soon, TSP is going to release Spectol Red and Spectol Blue. Maybe once those are released you could switch to that. ------------- Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
Posted By: auzcar
Date Posted: 05/11/2016 at 1:23pm
Ah yeah, I remember reading about those a while back, that's actually a great idea. Maybe I'll just start by trying the 802-40 boosted. |
GeneralSpecific wrote:Posted By: mjamja
Date Posted: 05/11/2016 at 1:55pm
What is different about the tension SP's and what types of shots/tactics are they better for and what types of shots/tactics would they have problems executing. Mark
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Posted By: speedy
Date Posted: 05/11/2016 at 2:26pm
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I have used SP for the last 10 years consecutively. I used all brand of short pips. Based on your statement "My game on BH is pretty aggressive and mostly consists of driving/lifting on backspin and aggressive counterhitting close to the table.", I recommend you to try the following: 1. Nittaku Morristo SP (Thick - around 1.9mm) 2. TSP Spectol 21 (1.8mm) 3. Stiga Royal (1.8mm) I used to like 2.0mm, but when you have an "aggressive" counter strokes close to the table, then thinner sponge works better. Good luck, ------------- SPEEDY Viscaria Super ALC ST JOOLA Rhyzen CMD(FH) Nittaku Moristo SP (BH) |
Posted By: ChichoFicho
Date Posted: 05/11/2016 at 2:42pm
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I have tried more than 30 different pips. Nittaku Hammond FA is the best by far. It works surprisingly well with the new elephant 40+ ball. Like the old Resilon but more durable and faster.
------------- Darker Speed 70 Hammond FA Speed Tyotokusen |
Posted By: Madridwalker
Date Posted: 05/11/2016 at 3:18pm
| I add to your post my quastion: better pips will be spin pips 2 1.0 or spinlord keiler 1.2 ? I chopp, and attack high ball. |
Posted By: ChichoFicho
Date Posted: 05/11/2016 at 3:48pm
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Spectol with a thin sponge ~1.7 is very good for both chop and attack. If you are an allround attacker who uses chop blocks, rolls, punches and smashes, then Hammond FA 2.2 is simply great. Other new pips like Flarestorm II, Booster SA, Victas pips, Express Ultra are just one dimensional. Spinpips, 802-40 and Spectol are too slow for attacking play. Maybe Spectol Speed sponge or the new Sppectol Blue would be ok.
------------- Darker Speed 70 Hammond FA Speed Tyotokusen |
Posted By: smackman
Date Posted: 05/11/2016 at 6:00pm
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Here you go going by the answers supplied 802-40 802-40 boosted 802 802 boosted spectol yasaka xtend po rakza po spectol red spectol blue nittaku morristo 1.9ish spectol 21 1.8 stiga royal 1.8 nittaku hammond fa 2.2 spinlord keiler 1.2 spectol 1.7 spectol speed sponge should be easy enough to work out lol, time to see if you are a real ejayer still ------------- Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website |
Posted By: Matt Pimple
Date Posted: 05/11/2016 at 6:09pm
Could somebody please explain to me how you chop block with 2.2mm short pips? Do you have a video of that? ------------- OSP Ultimate; Dr. Neubauer Dominance Spin Hard max, Dr. Neubauer Troublemaker 0.5 http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55835&title=feed-back-for-matt-pimple" rel="nofollow - My Feedback |
Posted By: TT newbie
Date Posted: 05/11/2016 at 8:48pm
Please notice I am a SP penhold player, so I will tell what works for my style of play. Things might be different for a shakehand player with BH SP. Right now I´m testing Rakza PO with a Waldner Senso Carbon Cpen blade. This rubber is faster than most SP I´ve tried. I found it faster than Xtend PO, Zava, Raystorm and Moristo SP. And of course is much faster than old-fashioned SP like Spectol or 802-40, which are not tensioned. Spectol seems completely dead for me. Pros: FH smash, FH counter at the peak, quick and long serves, active blocking fast balls. Cons: reception of spinny serves, blocking spinny and slow shots, short balls near the net.
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Posted By: auzcar
Date Posted: 05/12/2016 at 3:04am
| Like I said, I'm not going into the EJ world again, at least not willingly hehe. Seems like Spectol gets most love and since I need to buy another sheet to use while I boost the 802-40 I might try Spectol during that time, or I'll just by another 802-40, have to give that some thought. |
Posted By: auzcar
Date Posted: 05/12/2016 at 3:35am
| I might mention that I've tried both Spectol 21 and 802 Mystery in the past since a club mate plays with SP BH, both were around 1.8mm (don't remember exactly).This was a few years back and I only tried them for about 5 min each but as I remember it the Spectol was still quite spinny. |
Posted By: Tabmini
Date Posted: 05/12/2016 at 11:08am
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Many Pros are using Spectol or clippa. ------------- My feedback : mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=77680&PID=959859 |
Posted By: auzcar
Date Posted: 05/12/2016 at 4:48pm
| How does Clippa compare to Spectol and 802-40? I've got the impression that it's somewhere inbetween. Higher spin than Spectol but lower than 802-40, is that correct? |
Posted By: bbkon
Date Posted: 05/12/2016 at 7:53pm
How is rakza po against spinny loops and do the oppponents get nasty balls? What pro plays with clippa? Is clippa spinnier than 802 and moristo sp? |
Posted By: TT newbie
Date Posted: 05/13/2016 at 12:13am
I don´t know Clippa. Never used it. Blocking spinny loops with Rakza PO is harder than with Xtend PO. Rakza is more spin sensitive and faster. I struggle blocking this type of shot and usually my blocks go easy for my opponent. When it comes to my FH I try to counter smash right after the bounce, but in my BH I play like sh*t. Like I said I´m just trying this combo with Rakza but I consider Xtend PO as my "official" SP rubber.
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Posted By: auzcar
Date Posted: 05/13/2016 at 3:14am
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It actually worked out pretty well yesterday as I received my spare P700 and got to borrow a sheet of Spectol 21 1.8mm from a club mate. I had a long 3 hour session and could compare it side to side with my main bat, same blade and FH rubber but with 802-40 on BH. At first I felt that Spectol actually worked better than 802-40 but as I played more with Spectol I could feel that I wasn't as consistent or as confident with it as I am with the 802-40. Opening/Driving on backspin worked just as well but I missed more of the aggressive counterhitting, this is of course down to technique but I feel that the 802-40 has a wider margin for error. The sponge was also way too soft for my taste, I've always liked hard sponges and the 802-40 is just on the limit, any softer and I start to feel less confident, and the 21 sponge was a lot softer than that. My partner put more balls in the net though and I could feel that it played a lot flatter than 802-40. I won't choose the 21 sponge, but maybe a Spectol version with harder sponge could be a choice. With all this said I still think that my level with these rubbers are very Close, it's just that I miss a bit more with Spectol. Speed wise they were about the same but the 802-40 is 2.2mm and the Spectol was 1.8mm. I also borrowed a sheet of 802 Mystery from my club mate, I'm contemplating trying that as well but I'm not sure I'll gain much effect compared to 802-40. I kinda wonder what sponge/version most top level Spectol players use, I have a hard time believing a top player would use something this soft. |
Posted By: bbkon
Date Posted: 05/13/2016 at 3:48am
I nevee knew about a pro player with spectoo soft sponge |
Posted By: auzcar
Date Posted: 05/13/2016 at 4:22am
Yeah that's my point, they most likely have some sort of special sponge, definitely harder than the 21 sponge. I felt like the 21 sponge, at least in 1.8mm, didn't hold up when stepping on the gas and IMO it lacked top speed. Sure it was bouncy when not hitting hard but it topped out very fast when hitting hard. Maybe a newer pip that's not made for speed glue is the way to go, sadly they are a lot more expensive than Spectol and especially 802-40. |
Posted By: auzcar
Date Posted: 05/13/2016 at 4:40am
| I think that a less spinny, more classic SP with thick sponge might be the middle ground I'm looking for. I tend to prefer thicker sponges. |
Posted By: ChichoFicho
Date Posted: 05/13/2016 at 4:52pm
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All those new high tension short pips like Flarestorm II, the Victas pips, Royal and so on are one dimensional, i.e. they are good for strong smash but bad for touch shots, blocks, pushes, rolls and so on. They are better suited for shakehanders' backhand. I didn't like Flarestorm II, Booster SA, Tango Ultra, Express Ultra, Moristo SP. All of them are too bouncy. I liked Spectol soft 1.8 but without glue it's a dead rubber. Spectol hard is better but too fast with max sponge. Spinpips is even worse without glue. Tyranno with the softer sponge was OK. Hammond FA is probably the best choice for advanced traditional penholders and it is pretty popular in Japan. Mr. Shigekazu Tomioka has been using it on his custom made Yasaka carbon jpen for years. I tried Hammond FA speed and didn't like it - too bouncy.
------------- Darker Speed 70 Hammond FA Speed Tyotokusen |
Posted By: ChichoFicho
Date Posted: 05/13/2016 at 5:17pm
All Korean female national team members, except Lee Eun Sil, between 1990-2008 used Spectol Soft max with Speed glue. Lee Eun Sil used Speedy P.O. 2.1. Suk Eun Mi used to virtually break the ball with Spectol Soft max on a Cypress S. But of course nowadays Spectol Soft is dead rubber. I would love to try the new Spectol Blue. ------------- Darker Speed 70 Hammond FA Speed Tyotokusen |
Posted By: auzcar
Date Posted: 05/14/2016 at 2:20am
| I see a lot of differing opinions when it comes to 802 compared to Spectol. Some say that 802 is spinnier and some says that Spectol is spinnier. Can anyone here who have tried both give a good comparison? Which one has more spin? Plays flatter? Most "effect"? The only thing I've gotten a clear and unison comparison on is that Spectol is faster. |
Posted By: bbkon
Date Posted: 05/14/2016 at 11:52am
802 is spinnier and soectol is flatter |
Posted By: ChichoFicho
Date Posted: 05/14/2016 at 12:52pm
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802 sponges are very low quality. The last time I got 802 with Mystery Sponge it was thinner at some places and thicker at others. ------------- Darker Speed 70 Hammond FA Speed Tyotokusen |
Posted By: bbkon
Date Posted: 05/14/2016 at 2:08pm
Using gold palm trading sponge you get an awesome short pips. I wonder where you can get the 802 sponge that pro cpens are using like wang zenyi |
Posted By: ChichoFicho
Date Posted: 05/14/2016 at 4:43pm
Wang uses 802-40 but he has been changing his pips. Almost all good chinese players nowadays use japanese pips. Sun Chen uses Flarestorm II, Zhou Xintong - Spectol. ------------- Darker Speed 70 Hammond FA Speed Tyotokusen |
Posted By: aroonkl
Date Posted: 05/14/2016 at 4:47pm
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Is 802 or 802-40 good for SP chopper? Do they come in 1.5mm sponge? I'm using Spinpip Chop 2. When I put in medium fast blade, BH is too fast for me.
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Posted By: JohnnyChop
Date Posted: 05/15/2016 at 8:17am
Ding Song chopped with 802! i think zeropong sells 802 in 1.5 but almost all sponge under chinese sp are bad...not sure you will find one that suits your style ------------- 729 Battle 2 Yasaka Goibao 5 Nittaku Fastarc G1 Nittaku Fastarc G1 Butterfly Cypress Max |
Posted By: JohnnyChop
Date Posted: 05/15/2016 at 8:23am
100% agreed, Spectol is vertically aligned raw pip which is faster flatter and the ball sinks more and 802 is horizontally aligned cooked pip which is slower and spinnier! But honestly the difference is not much, i actually think the biggest difference between the two is actually quality control and sponge quality! one other thing to consider is that it is a slightly different stroke with the different pip alignment! There are exceptions but generally penhold prefers horizontal and shakehand prefers vertical ------------- 729 Battle 2 Yasaka Goibao 5 Nittaku Fastarc G1 Nittaku Fastarc G1 Butterfly Cypress Max |
Posted By: auzcar
Date Posted: 05/15/2016 at 11:15am
| I've had two more sessions comparing 802-40 and Spectol and I think I want something that's just a tiny bit spinnier, throws a tiny bit higher and is a bit faster than Spectol. Also the sponge needs to be firmer, at least as firm as the 802-40 which I think is 35deg. Any suggestions? From what I've gathered perhaps Clippa or even some of the newer pips like Flarestorm II or Rakza PO could be what I'm looking for? |
Posted By: bbkon
Date Posted: 05/16/2016 at 11:55am
I have tried spinlord waran and my clubmates find it more disturbing with more sinkballs than moristo is pretty fast at 1.8mm way better than raystorm and challenger |
Posted By: nikos_S
Date Posted: 08/31/2020 at 2:41pm
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4+ years later, can you tell me what did you buy? |
Posted By: Valiantsin
Date Posted: 08/31/2020 at 2:48pm
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Like Galaxy Uranus ))) It's like was described: softer and spinnier than 802-40))
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Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 08/31/2020 at 4:13pm
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The green uranus pips I have are spinny as heck, but the regular uranus doesn't seem to be. Maybe if you could get the special tuned version. ------------- Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
Posted By: Valiantsin
Date Posted: 08/31/2020 at 4:54pm
Hello cole_ely :) I am not sure which ones I had :) https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10000308626998.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.414c4c4d7EwYt1" rel="nofollow - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10000308626998.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.414c4c4d7EwYt1 Speaking about it - can tell - that inspite the fact that these are not reacting much to incoming rotation - are pretty spinny when you are defending or attacking - the ball is not planning but pretty consistent in flight
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Posted By: mykonos96
Date Posted: 09/01/2020 at 1:21pm
There is a Pro version, The normal version has yellow fragile sponge.ITOH I wonder how behaves spectol 21 with the new ball, I need a less spin sensitive pip thas has decent control btw cole I sent you a msg about soft sponges |
Posted By: wappak
Date Posted: 09/02/2020 at 4:33am
cole, is that the uranus poly euro version you have? where did you buy that? thank you
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Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 09/02/2020 at 6:47am
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i dont know the specifics of the type. Its uranus and its green and its much spinnier than the regular. Thsts all i know. Its not tuned ------------- Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
Posted By: wappak
Date Posted: 09/02/2020 at 9:45am
green sponge?
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Posted By: ejprinz
Date Posted: 09/02/2020 at 1:53pm
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Patrick Hrdlicka in his blog post (towards the bottom) has reviews of 3 short pips: https://blog.tabletennis11.com/short-pips-advantages-and-disadvantages%20" rel="nofollow - https://blog.tabletennis11.com/short-pips-advantages-and-disadvantages
I can say from experience that the Rakza PO imparts more spin than the Moristo SP but has less control against top spin. So I am now using the Moristo SP, if I need spin I can always twiddle to the FastArc G1. Vicky Jiao ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkAtYs6gwig" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkAtYs6gwig ) seems to use Spectol Blue (vertical pips alignment), from the video. This is short pips backhand, see the 2019 NCTTA Final: https://youtu.be/XeEz5QlbdC4?t=20146" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/XeEz5QlbdC4?t=20146 . For people interested in Vicky against an outstanding defender (Angela Guan), see this link: https://youtu.be/XeEz5QlbdC4?t=13833" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/XeEz5QlbdC4?t=13833 . For the Uranus, there is also a Uranus Pro at princett.com. The Yinhe web site has: http://www.yinhe1986.cn/products.aspx?TypeId=189&FId=t3:189:3" rel="nofollow - http://www.yinhe1986.cn/products.aspx?TypeId=189&FId=t3:189:3 , not sure about the sponge though. They don't show the Uranus Pro anymore. So it looks like spinny pips have horizontal alignment, and less spinny pips have vertical alignment. I found the Moristo SP to be pretty durable, due to Covid-19 concerns I wash it with detergent & H2O2 after every session... Also it made it into the 2019 top 10 at TT11: https://blog.tabletennis11.com/the-top-10-rubbers-of-2019" rel="nofollow - https://blog.tabletennis11.com/the-top-10-rubbers-of-2019 ------------- Yinhe 980XX, DHS Hurricane 3 Neo, Nittaku Wallest 1.0mm sponge. |
Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 09/02/2020 at 3:43pm
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no the topsheet. The sponge is really soft pinkish maybe like venus soft ------------- Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
Posted By: mykonos96
Date Posted: 10/15/2020 at 9:55am
using Spectol speed or regular? |