looping straight line or curvy?
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Topic: looping straight line or curvy?
Posted By: kindof99
Subject: looping straight line or curvy?
Date Posted: 07/29/2016 at 7:20pm
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I recently struggled with how to move my paddle while looping. It appears that the correct way is to loop a straight line from bottom right to top right before the head. I used to think that the paddle moves in a semi-circle kind curve in a loop. Can anyone educate me on this? My thinking is that by looping the straight line, it is easier to have the paddle facing the incoming ball directly and borrow some incoming speed. Also, will the elbow and wrist snap change any of the looping direction? ------------- /forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65174&title=feedback-for-kindof99" rel="nofollow - My Feedback | /forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=77924" rel="nofollow - Sale |
Replies:
Posted By: Tt Gold
Date Posted: 07/29/2016 at 8:22pm
| Yes looping in a straight line is the correct way.It is also more forgiving, because you don't hit the racket edge as easily when your timing is slightly off. |
Posted By: The Canadian Bacon
Date Posted: 07/29/2016 at 8:39pm
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The Loop
The loop drive is the primary attacking stroke of serious players today. A loop is basically a spinny counterpart of a drive, emphasizing topspin over forward motion. Likewise, a stronger upward motion is required in the swing, grazing the ball instead of hitting it. Despite the nature of the loop, they can go just as fast as the drive-approaching 100mph for an over-the-table loop by a talented player. If there were any doubts about the endurance requirements of table tennis, try hitting decent loops against extreme backspin time and time again. Players not used to this stroke may find it the most tiring for the first time. Depending on the characteristic of the incoming ball, the loop must
be modified to hit the ball correctly. If a ball is coming in fast and
high with heavy topspin, the paddle should be more closed and the swing
should go forward more. However, if a chop came floating your way, then
the correct thing to do would be to open the paddle somewhat, and perform
a strong upwards swing-think of it as 'pulling the ball back up with the
paddle'. This is especially what makes the loop such a tough stroke. As
the ball touches the paddle for only a short time, as well as meeting
on a more perpendicular path(as opposed to the highly parallel paths during
a drive), good timing is critical to avoid completely missing the ball
altogether. This means keeping a sharp eye on the ball throughout the
stroke is important, as it is for all other strokes. source:megaspin Tahl has some good tips...listen carefully |
Posted By: TT newbie
Date Posted: 07/29/2016 at 9:22pm
| Don´t waste time looping. Smash it. |
Posted By: berndt_mann
Date Posted: 07/29/2016 at 9:38pm
If anyone playing today's table tennis, whether using short pips with sponge or boosted to the max inverted can smash a long pipped heavy underspin ball, that player, male or female, would be an extraordinary player indeed. It would be about as difficult, and very low percentage, to try to smash a heavily topspun ball, especially made with boosted inverted, from either close or mid-distance. ------------- bmann1942 Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
TT newbie wrote:Posted By: kindof99
Date Posted: 07/29/2016 at 9:48pm
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Watching Brian Pace's video, he had a very nic brush on the ball after the paddle contacting the ball. Where did he implement this nice looking brush? Does it come from the foot and body movement, or just grasping the paddle tightly at that moment? ------------- /forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65174&title=feedback-for-kindof99" rel="nofollow - My Feedback | /forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=77924" rel="nofollow - Sale |
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 07/29/2016 at 9:52pm
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Curves, for the swing is based on the rotation of the joints. Even if you think your swing goes in a straight line, you're in fact tracing a curve. ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
Posted By: berndt_mann
Date Posted: 07/29/2016 at 9:52pm
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Your advice, Canadian Bacon, with regard to the loop drive is basically sound. There is one statement in your loop tutorial, however, that is not and has never been possible, either for an over the table loop by "a talented player" or for that matter an all-out smash at a speed approaching 100 mph. In the early 1950s, exuberant journalists made the claim that Dick Miles had an 115 mph smash. This, though desirable and remarkable, was simply not so. An average speed for a loop drive by a world class player is probably around 70-75 mph. A smash, generally executed against a high slow moving ball (for example, a lob with relatively little topspin and sidespin) msy be a bit faster, that is, perhaps 80 mph coming off the racket, as with the loop. ------------- bmann1942 Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
Posted By: GTeaLatte
Date Posted: 07/29/2016 at 11:45pm
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I believe the correct loop stroke actually involves a circular, or curved motion due to the twist of the torso and shifting of the center of gravity in harmony with the full arm stroke. *Straight* stroke usually results from a chicken wing loop from my experience at the club. *I am not a professional so take my findings with a grain of salt. ------------- Stiga Rosewood NCT V FH: Stiga Genesis M red BH: Stiga Mantra S black |
Posted By: benfb
Date Posted: 07/30/2016 at 1:57am
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There were a pair of training videos created in the 90s by Donic and featuring Waldner and Persson. If you check those, you'll see that they explicitly advocate a straight line for the paddle. Your body may move in curves; as pointed out, you don't have much choice due to the nature of joints. However, that doesn't mean your stroke (paddle) can't be in a straight line.
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Posted By: TT newbie
Date Posted: 07/30/2016 at 11:41am
When I said to smash instead of loop of course it´s not possible in every situation. But there are certain moments in a match, for example in a loop exchange, when a player can step forward and try to finish the point smashing the ball instead of keep looping. Third ball is also another example. If you have a good serve there will be a chance to smash the third ball instead of just opening with topspin. |
Posted By: GTeaLatte
Date Posted: 07/30/2016 at 11:57am
Do you mean this video? https://youtu.be/DIzW16bITyo Waldners stroke is a "chicken wing" loop, as in his stroke does not involve the full extension of his arm and remains in a retracted position close to the body. By no means is this stroke bad, in fact many proffesionals incorporate this stroke. However, it is because he uses this stroke that he advocates a straight line. HOWEVER, if you pay attention, you realize that his stroke is not ENTIRELY straight. In fact it follows a slight curve, which is a result of his rotation. When you watch the top chinese players, their full arm loops almost always follow a curve, and that is because not only do they swing with a different stroke, but their core rotation is in a sense "stronger" or more violent. Feel free to correct me as this is personal opinion! ------------- Stiga Rosewood NCT V FH: Stiga Genesis M red BH: Stiga Mantra S black |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 07/30/2016 at 12:33pm
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There is a good video by Samson Dubina on the topic. ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 07/30/2016 at 12:37pm
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------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 07/30/2016 at 1:04pm
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For what it's worth, a coach I worked with in Nigeria when he wanted me to topspin said that I should shape the ball. You should not shape the ball with poor mechanics but there is one high level topspin philosophy that believes that spin strokes should follow the contours of the ball. The problem is that some players do it with very poor stroke technique and over do what the proper forehand loop form does naturally, especially if you get the starting and finishing positions of the racket correct.if you finish with your racket handle bottom facing the right wall as it should on most topspin loops cross court, then you will have completed the circular motion adequately in most cases because of how the elbow, wrist and shoulder are hinged, the elbow especially. Just don't raise the elbow upwards during the stroke in order to cover the ball to the extent that your elbow ends up higher than your racket. This will engage the shoulder way too much. ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: kindof99
Date Posted: 07/30/2016 at 3:12pm
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OK, I have more understanding on this now. The fundamental should be moving the paddle in a straight line. But after mastering the fundamentals, one can move the paddle with curve, but that will require the player to have sufficient skills such as timing etc. The main reason for me to ask this question is that my placement is everywhere on my opponent's table. Looping with curvy paddle movement probably caused that. I saw Ma Long tends to loop with a straight line paddle movement in warm up. Waldner's looping video also suggests that. But Fan Zhendong loops with a curvy motion as shown in my avatar. My feeling is that there is no special requirements as long as the mechanics are correct. But looping in a straight line does help consistence. That is why Ma Long used it in warm up. The same reasoning applies to backhand looping. Straight line backhand looping is more consistent, but the curvy one has more power (especially with wrist snap). I will focus on looping a straight line at the moment.
------------- /forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65174&title=feedback-for-kindof99" rel="nofollow - My Feedback | /forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=77924" rel="nofollow - Sale |
Posted By: The Canadian Bacon
Date Posted: 07/30/2016 at 3:49pm
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The actual contact line/motion for topspin/looping action is a straight line, the follow through is the curving motion. Both actions on the stroke vary according to variables but the topspin is a straight line from bottom to top, what ball coming to you would usually dictate how your shot/motion would look. lol I'm in the mall looking at tennis frames, not sure if that made sense lol 😀 |
Posted By: kindof99
Date Posted: 07/30/2016 at 3:52pm
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Thanks, fatt. ------------- /forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65174&title=feedback-for-kindof99" rel="nofollow - My Feedback | /forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=77924" rel="nofollow - Sale |