Evolution rubber color differences?
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Topic: Evolution rubber color differences?
Posted By: slowd16z
Subject: Evolution rubber color differences?
Date Posted: 11/09/2016 at 11:14pm
| Has anybody else noticed a difference in performance between colors of MX-P or any other rubbers from the evolution line? I have red and black MX-P on the same blade but the black side feels much softer and maybe a tad less spin and speed. I know that people have said that there are differences between colors for Chinese rubbers but that is usually just the top sheet. I'm just wondering if this is something consistent or just me. |
Replies:
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 11/09/2016 at 11:21pm
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You need to weigh them and measure the thickness of the sponge and ideally with a durometer to tell. ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g ă ă) = 184.8g |
Posted By: slowd16z
Date Posted: 11/09/2016 at 11:40pm
| I know that not all things are made equally and the black sheet very well could be lighter but I was just wondering what the general consensus was. |
Posted By: nv42
Date Posted: 11/10/2016 at 4:21am
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Your red sheet may be heavier or it could be that your black sheet has lost its tuning already and hence feels less spinnier. IMO the black Evo sheets are a tiny bit tackier and gripper than the red sheets, but big enough a differnce that yud notice easily. Iv noticed on many older gen esn rubbers that the black topsheet is usually tackier and maybe softer while the red is a bit harder and faster. Surprisingly, I havnt noticed this differnce on most of the newer gen 'made for plastic ball' rubbers ------------- 1.dhs pg2 fl -FH t05h (max) -BH tibhar genius (max) |
Posted By: adishorul
Date Posted: 11/10/2016 at 4:54am
+1 |
nv42 wrote:Posted By: slowd16z
Date Posted: 11/10/2016 at 10:24am
| I wonder if the colors is what's causing so many discrepancies between reviews on the Evolution Review threads. My black sheet is definitely more lively but it doesn't have the same overall power as my red sheet. The red sheet definitely feels more dead until I start swinging. It feels like a boosted hurricane 3 NEO while the black sheet feels more like a typical tensor. |
Posted By: cmba_x
Date Posted: 11/10/2016 at 12:06pm
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Yes, I also feel black FX-P is softer than red FX-P. ------------- FX-P - JRE - FX-P H3 - Latika - FX-P |
Posted By: slowd16z
Date Posted: 11/10/2016 at 6:54pm
| Can anybody confirm this for EL-S or any of the other Evolution rubbers? |
Posted By: nv42
Date Posted: 11/11/2016 at 4:14am
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Like I said, I havnt noticed this much with the new made for P ball rubbers.. That includes the mx-s, el-s and fx-s. With them, the differnce between red and black seemed quite negligible. And it's not just the prec gen volution rubbers that share this proeperty, but quite a few esn rubbers. ------------- 1.dhs pg2 fl -FH t05h (max) -BH tibhar genius (max) |
Posted By: rocketman222
Date Posted: 12/04/2016 at 6:33pm
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I just switched from using black mx-p on backhand to red, and they are totally different, the red is way less springy and less thicker, and less spinny. ------------- http://www.bladesbycharlie.com/models/hinokighost" rel="nofollow - BBC Hinoki Ghost http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=74126&title=feedback-rocketman222" rel="nofollow - My Feedback |
Posted By: igorponger
Date Posted: 12/04/2016 at 7:27pm
| As a general rule, black topsheet feels more tacky than red one, due to some carbonic colorants I guess. |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 12/04/2016 at 7:59pm
| I think so also. |
Posted By: rocketman222
Date Posted: 12/04/2016 at 10:27pm
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Leaves me with no option but to falco it ------------- http://www.bladesbycharlie.com/models/hinokighost" rel="nofollow - BBC Hinoki Ghost http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=74126&title=feedback-rocketman222" rel="nofollow - My Feedback |
Posted By: notfound123
Date Posted: 12/05/2016 at 12:08am
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if you look at Samsonov who plays Evo (MXP, MXS) .. he mostly plays red on FH and sometimes out of nowhere chooses black. Just today I was watching him play Yuto Muramatsu (the chopper) and noticed he played w/ black rubber on FH. Watch out for his next match - he'll probably go back to red! I personally don't think the color makes any difference. For euro/jap rubbers I can see pros choose one vs the other solely based on wear. And of course many simply have a mental preference. I played black Tenergy on my FH for many months and recently went for red - no difference that I can tell.
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Posted By: nv42
Date Posted: 12/05/2016 at 12:29am
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There's not such a big differnce between the red & black for most recent gen rubbers and even rubbers from mx-p's gen (small. differnce but doesn't affect play tooo much) and even tenergy. The rubbers from baracuda, genius gen definitely show a good enoi+ difference in grip between the two which can become quit apparent during play. Aurus and rakza too is similar. The whole reason why we see that pros don't really care about the colour is because theyr using rubbers which don't have much variation between the two colours, basically, Noone really uses the older gen rubbers right now ( even though they are amazing for even high level club players). ------------- 1.dhs pg2 fl -FH t05h (max) -BH tibhar genius (max) |
Posted By: wturber
Date Posted: 12/05/2016 at 2:30pm
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Black rubber typically uses carbon black to obtain the black coloring. These are small particles that tend to change the character of the rubber. It is a big part of what makes car rubber durable. Modern red rubbers frequently rely on only red dye that do not have such an effect. In order to get some balance between the two methods of coloring, some additional components must be added uniquely to one or both rubbers to compensate for the changed caused or not by the different colorants. I guess different manufacturers do better and worse jobs of this with different rubbers.
If a black rubber uses dye, then this probably wouldn't be an issue. I jut think it is harder to get black with a dye than it is to get a color. ------------- Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
Posted By: unstopabl3
Date Posted: 12/05/2016 at 2:35pm
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Is this color issue with MX-P only or with EL-P as well? |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 12/05/2016 at 2:37pm
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Very interesting. I did not know any of that. I agree with the person who says that the difference is slight these days, but I definitely like to use the black side on my forehand with MX-P. I am glad I am not the only person who felt like there was at least a slight difference. I thought it was all in my head (which was odd because for some reason I always would use red side for forehand, for decades, always with Tenergy 05). And even though I am not the only one, I still wonder if it is all in my head. |
Posted By: unstopabl3
Date Posted: 12/05/2016 at 2:42pm
What's the slight difference you felt between red & black MX-P rubbers? And did you feel this difference with Tenergy as well? |
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 12/05/2016 at 2:43pm
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[pnachtwey]It's all in your head.đ Folks are so superstitious.đ[/pnachtwey] ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g ă ă) = 184.8g |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 12/05/2016 at 2:47pm
| Runs away screaming. |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 12/05/2016 at 2:49pm
I perceive (or imagine) that with the MX-P the black side is a little tackier and that the ball dips more on loops and I did not think (or imagine) that the same think happened with T05. With T05 I always used red on my forehand for no good reason at all except for habit.
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Posted By: slowd16z
Date Posted: 12/05/2016 at 3:17pm
I noticed the same thing with MX-P. Even when new, the black MX-P was slightly tackier and softer. I felt like the red was faster and had more spin but it could have just been the fact that it was faster so it gave the illusion of more spin. I also haven't noticed a difference in Tenergy 05. Both colors seemed equivalent in tack level, hardness, spin and speed.
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Posted By: notfound123
Date Posted: 12/05/2016 at 8:55pm
| Let's assume for a sec that black color is spinier than the red one. And let's also assume there is a scientific explanation and that the top 100 can even feel the difference - when compared apples to apples. Wouldn't you agree that pros would then overwhelmingly prefer one vs the other? The ratio for H3 is easily 100+ to 1, so I can totally see that being the case (maybe remotely or "WLQ once said" etc). As for Tenergy and the like, you see pros playing both colors 50/50. There cannot possibly be any measurable difference as they would kill to get that extra advantage. |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 12/05/2016 at 9:17pm
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True, but we are not talking about Tenergy, in this case we are specifically talking about MX-P, and the number of players is much less. I have not bothered to check to see if those who use MX-P on both sides have a color preference for FH. Somebody posted recently a list of players at European championships who used various rubbers, and after Tenergies (the overwhelming favorite) there were some players who used MX-P both sides, it was probably the second most popular. So one could probably check this out. I never felt any difference with Tenergy. I think I feel something with MX-P. Maybe. With Hurricane the preference for Black is overwhelming. |
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 12/05/2016 at 10:24pm
Butterfly Japan claims(rather claimed as they just updated the layout and the FAQ is gone) there is absolutely no difference between black and red. They take color discrimination seriously!
Google translate for fellow readers: Is the performance different depending on the color of the rubber? The color of the rubber is determined by the pigment (pigment) contained when making the surface sheet. The rubber performance of the tenacity ¡ 05 seat and the rubber performance of the spin art seat are different, but if it is the same tenaze ¡ 05, the performance of the original rubber is exactly the same. And, since the pigment put in the rubber of the sheet is very small amount, if it is the same type of rubber, there is almost no difference in performance between red and black. Even if the colors are different, the same performance figures are given in the mechanical test. ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g ă ă) = 184.8g |
Posted By: notfound123
Date Posted: 12/05/2016 at 10:48pm
Even if we are talking MXP here... to me personally, Samsonov's judgement means more than any mechanical test out there. The guy used red MXP on FH for quite some time. If he could feel the difference he would have switched without a doubt.
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Posted By: rocketman222
Date Posted: 12/05/2016 at 11:21pm
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Also samsonov I m sure doesn't get the same stock that we do, the thing is we are not saying it's every rubber, it's specifically mxp. And if players at our level feel it, then the difference is not that minute but it's sizeable. ------------- http://www.bladesbycharlie.com/models/hinokighost" rel="nofollow - BBC Hinoki Ghost http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=74126&title=feedback-rocketman222" rel="nofollow - My Feedback |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 12/05/2016 at 11:55pm
Maybe Samasonv preferred the slightly tackier side on his BH instead of his FH? And now he uses MX-S on BH, so it's not impossible. Or maybe there really is no difference. Look, I'm still not sure what about this but it has seemed like that to me since the first time I tried the stuff. I certainly don't feel strongly enough about it to argue about it. But it is the rubber ive played with for the last few months if that means anything. And I never had that sensation with T05 |
Posted By: notfound123
Date Posted: 12/06/2016 at 12:08am
I believe you... Unfortunately I've not tried MXP in black myself, only played with red one for one or two sessions.
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Posted By: manraid
Date Posted: 12/06/2016 at 2:30am
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i have also noticed that black mx-p is tackier ,harder ,more lively ,and more DURABLE than the red mx-p and i have noticed the durability difference in 4 black sheets and 4 red sheets and i have read an article about that( here in this forum but i don't remember where)assuming that the durability issue due to the red sheet contains silica particles which gives the rubber flexibilty and softness on the expense of durability on the contrary of the black sheet where carbon particles gives the rubber firmness and solidity and more durability ------------- MJ SZLC ST FH Hurricane 8 2.15m Black BH Super 999t 2.2mm Red |
Posted By: nv42
Date Posted: 12/06/2016 at 2:25pm
+1 ------------- 1.dhs pg2 fl -FH t05h (max) -BH tibhar genius (max) |
Posted By: Jasonh
Date Posted: 12/06/2016 at 2:46pm
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Comparing one red and one black Tibhar Sinus, the red one is a tad faster and the black one's grip is somewhat better when playing; The tackiness usually wears off faster on red sheets than black ones. ------------- Fly away! |
Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 12/06/2016 at 2:53pm
 ------------- Viscaria FL - 91g + Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g ă ă) = 184.8g |
Posted By: jonyer1980
Date Posted: 12/08/2016 at 6:14pm
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Im using MXP red for my first time and I feel it's not 100% same as black ones I had before. It was not as spinny for sure... I've been using Eurojap rubbers and I never felt this... ------------- Rosewood V FL Nittaku Fastarc G1-FH Stiga DNA Pro-S MAX BH Avoid any Butterfly stuff... at abusive prices. Raw power without control means nothing |