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New 2017 Xiom Feel Series Blades!!!

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Topic: New 2017 Xiom Feel Series Blades!!!
Posted By: yogi_bear
Subject: New 2017 Xiom Feel Series Blades!!!
Date Posted: 11/23/2017 at 7:37am
Big thanks to Xiom, Megaspin.net and Pingpongonline.com in making this review possible.

I will be posting the blades by each batch for their reviews.. all blades were tested with Xiom Omega V Euro DF rubbers plus Globe 999 National and PF4 rubbers. Water - Based glue was used.

Xiom Feel HX Pro and HX Blade

HX Pro:  7.1mm thick, Kiso Hinoki outer; 89 grams; stiff


HX: 6.8mm thick, Kiso Hinoki outer; 88 grams; medium stiff

 

The Hx Pro blade is the thickest blade in the Xiom Feel Series. It is about 7.1mm thick but it is not the heaviest blade, rather it is the Feel SX blade. The Feel series blades are being marketed by Xiom as their next generation blades. Their previous blades like the Omega or Vega series are not as numerous compared to the Feel series which has 8 blades to choose from! The outer plies of the HX Pro is said to be a high quality Kiso Hinoki that is 200 years old+. Xiom says that they are trying to get higher qualities of their products in the market compared to their past products and also can even compete with Butterfly. The HX version is a thinner version of the HX Pro with the same Kiso Hinoki outer plies. I am assuming that only these 2 blades have the Kiso Hinoki outers because other blades in the Feel series do not have the Kiso Hinoki label in the blade surface. Both blades have a slightly wider wing part compared to older models like the Omega or Vega Series blades. The handles of the 2 blades are thicker by a millimeter. Usually, when I measured the older blades they have, the handle thickness is just 25mm+. With the HX Pro it is 26mm+ and the HX version almost at 26mm. The wing or neck part of the balde needs to be sanded slightly but this is not a big problem. Both blades have thick Kiso Hinoki Outer plies.

 

In terms of speed, the HX Pro is labeled as OFF but it is as good as OFF+. It is fast enough to be OFF+ in speed. The speed is on par with the Xiom Ignito but the HX pro seems to have a harder, more solid feel. The Ignito that I had was 83 grams. If on a powerscale The HX Pro’s power is a solid 9/10 while Ignito is an 8/10. It is probably the extra thickness that gives the solidity of the shots and also the catapult of the ball. Still the HX Pro is slower than the Xiom Axelo. I would put the speed of the HX Pro at the level of Primorac Carbon which is already an off+ blade. Axelo is still the fastest balde of Xiom in my opinion. The HX version is a toned down version of the HX Pro and it has control written all over it. The HX version is thinner and definitely slower than the HX Pro but still plenty fast. I would compare the speed of the HX version as slightly faster than the Stradivarius but slower than the Ignito. For other brands, the HX version is as fast as or slightly faster than the Timo Boll ALC with a more solid feel.

 

In terms of control, both the HX pro and HX blades have a fairly amount of control. It is not hard to control these two blades since they do not seem to be blindingly fast but rather have the acceptable amount of control. The HX Pro is more controllable than the Ignito or Axelo and has a better control than the Primorac Carbon. The HX version can be everybody’s carbon blade because it is that just good of an offensive carbon blade. The one who used it aside from me even commented that it has the same control of a Timo Boll Alc but has a slightly different feel because of the different composite materials used.

 

In terms of looping, the HX Pro can still loop good but it is more specialized in power looping. Near the table it seems to be fitted for loop driving and taking the ball at the peak of the bounce or off the bounce. The HX pro is good in overpowering the opponent’s underspin  return but it is even better doing counter looping or counter spins mid-distance from the table or far from the table. The HX Pro’s speed puts it really at mid-distance to far from the table if you attack the ball with spin. The HX version is good for spinning mostly near and mid-distance from the table. Near the table, it is good to loop with because of the control and not fearing the ball overshooting the table but the HX version is best at middle distance. If you want to play far from the table, you would probably need a faster rubber like the Omega V Pro. The one I used for the test for both blades and other Feel blades is the Xiom Omega Euro DF.

 

Overall, I am greatly satisfied and impressed with both blades with a little bit of inclination with the HX version because I am the type of guy who does not want very fast blades. However, people who look for power in a blade would get the HX Pro version. Also, I would recommend using Medium or medium soft rubbers for the HX Pro because the medium-hard Xiom Omega V Euro seems to feel too hard for this blade. The HX version is fine with any rubber from soft to hard because it does not feel as the stiff and hard as the thicker HX Pro version. Both baldes also have little to minimal amount of vibration. 


Xiom ZX1, ZX2 and ZX3 Blades


ZX1 

ZX2







ZX3






The ZX blades are a major improvement when compared to the older Hayabusha series. The ZX blades are advertised by Xiom as totally different blades when compared to the Hayabusha series. While the Hayabusha blades have this flashy look and design, the ZX Feel series have opted to have the simple yet elegant design for each blade. I would like to point out that in the website of Xiom, the ZX1 has a Hinoki outer ply but in reality the ZX1 has a colored limba outer ply instead which I think is probably heat treated like the Donic Burn blades before but not 100% sure. The ZX2 and ZX3 are indeed hinoki outer ply blades. Though the ZX2 and 3 do not have a Kiso Hinoki mark on their blade surface, the Xiom website indicate that both blades have Kiso Hinoki. As what the handles of the HX blades, the ZX blades also have a bigger

 

So what are their differences in speed? Both the ZX3 and ZX2 are at off+ levels. They are pretty fast. The ZX3 is the fastest among the 3 blades. If I compare it to the HX Pro, they seem to be toe to toe in terms of speed even if the HX Pro is a thicker blade. As what I have compared the HX Pro’s speed before, it is below the speed of Sardius or Amultart and also Schlager Carbon. So I will place the speed of the ZX3 below those Butterfly blades mentioned but faster than Gergely or Primorac Carbon if not equal. The ZX2 is close to the HX’s speed but the HX is slightly faster. The ZX2 is still a powerful blade. If I compare it to blades from other brands, the ZX2 is marginally faster than Viscaria or Timo Boll ALC but lower than a Super Jun Mizutani blade. Xiom Ignito is faster than the ZX2 or 3. The ZX1 however is somewhat slower compared to other blades of Xiom Feel Series. The ZX1 having a limba outerply with innermost Z-Carbon sandwiching the central core (the picture depicted in the Xiom website has hinoki but it has limba in reality), is slower than a viscaria but has an almost equal speed than the Innerforce ALC. It is rated as an OFF blade and not an OFF+ blade. Still, it has plenty of speed.

 

Of the 3 blades, the ZX3 is the one with the least flex, the ZX2 with some flex and with the ZX1 with plenty of flex. The ZX1 loops best among the 3 ZX blades, the ZX2 being balanced on both power and spinning capabilities while the ZX3 is much better for power shots. The ZX3 is particular about the skillset of the person using it to loop the ball. If you have a skill for looping or loop driving, the ZX3 will reward you with great shots and power but it needs somewhat of an advanced level to fully utilize it. The ZX3 has a medium to low arc when looping. The ZX2 is a balanced looping or loop driving blade. At least the ZX2 can be used by players of lower levels like an intermediate level player. It is much more forgiving compared to the ZX3 in terms of shots. While the ZX3 needs a person to have precise set of skills to spin or attack the ball, the ZX2 has better control and is more forgiving if you for example have not executed your stroke full. The ZX2 has medium arc when looping. The ZX1 is sometimes, puzzling because it feels more woody than being a composite blade. This is not a bad thing because this is for people who want a faster blade than just an all wood blade but does not want a sacrifice of the wood feel, the ZX1 is an excellent blade for them. The ZX1 has a medium arc when looping. I have tried both the Xiom Omega V Europe and a Chinese rubber on the blade. Both rubbers can loop really great when using the ZX1.

For smashing, counter driving away from the table and even blocking, I would give the edge to the ZX3 but the ZX2 is slightly better in terms of control. ZX1 is above average for smashing but I can feel its power only up to mid-distance from the table even with fast rubbers. The ZX1 is best close to the table. The ZX2 is again the balanced blade which is good in all 3 distances from the table. The ZX3 is just a wrecking machine when it comes to hard topspins and smashes. People who choose to have speed and power but do not want to lose much control will sure love this blade.

 

All in all, the ZX3 seems to be the flagship blade of the Xiom Feel series. The other 2 are also very good but the ZX3 really stands out among the rest. It is a different blade compared to the old Hayabusha series. The ZX2 and ZX1 blades are also way different blades compared to their older counterparts. 

Xiom Feel SX
95 grams, 6.48mm, OFF+





 

The Xiom Feel SX has Anigre/Anegre top plies. Anegre is an African hardwood. When I compared the Janka hardness of Limba and Anegre, Anigre is substantially harder at around 700+ cmapred to the Janka value of Limba which is around 400+. This gives the SX a bit heavier weight due to having a denser and harder wood. The SX has a weight range of 95-99 grams according to Xiom and I got mine at 95 grams. The blades construction is superb and the Anegre’s surface seems to be semi smooth and not as smooth as Hinoki top plies of other Feel blades.

 

The blade is a heavy blade due to the choice of materials made for the rubber. Xiom said that they really intended the SX to be heavy and for me the 95 gram weight is not that I can handle easily if I use it with both inverted rubbers. With a long pimpled rubber then this set up is good. The blade is a solid attacking blade. It feels woody on impact. Although it is a basically a carbon-zephylium blade, it retains some feel. There are times that the SX can almost be as fast as the HX PRO but they kinda feel different on impact. The SX feels like a classic, hard 7 ply all wood from those old Chinese blades while the HX Pro feels like any modern hard-hitting blade.
If the SX had been lighter and thinner, maybe it would be more playable to a lot of folks. Well, it is either you really like heavy blades or you have a strong arm to play this set up fully. Xiom says their newer rubbers like Omega 7 Pro and Euro are lighter. My pro rubber is 45 grams cut to 150x157 and the euro is 43 grams cut to the same size. If I were to use the blade’s weight at 95 grams plus the 2 rubbers the total set-up weight it about 183 grams which is still on the heavy side. So I would recommend this maybe to attacking long pip players. One inverted on the forehand and one pips out rubber with thin or no sponge at all. I tried the SX with a 755 Long Pips and it worked perfectly fine. It can attack and block well with the LP on the bh side.It can chop block near the table but it cannot chop defensively even outside the table due to its raw power.

 

This is still a high-performance blade but it is heavy for most people unless they are combination racket players.

 

Xiom Feel S7
92-94 grams approx, 6.2mm, OFF, 7 ply all wood



 

The Feel S7 is the only all wood blade in the series. It has a koto outer plies with an unknown 2nd ply  and has a medium stiff feel. It feels less smooth than the Xiom Solo blade wherein it shares a lot of similarities especially in construction but they are quite different blades in terms of playing characteristics. The Feel S7 feels like a Xiom Solo in steroids. The Solo blade is made in China and this one is made in Japan. The Solo has flex especially when looping but the S7 feels more solid and has less flex. In fact it feels a bit harder than a Clipper wood. I would put it in between Clipper CC’s and Clipper CR’s stiffness and hardness. What the Xiom Solo lacked in power being a 7 ply blade, the Feel S7 has a lot and the difference in speed and power is a lot. The S7 is also a bit on the heavy side. Xiom says they designed this blade at this weight for the polyball. Again, like the SX blade, if you have the strong arm then this blade would be good for hard hitting strokes. The S7 is just a powerful blade that you can unleash your strokes but still maintain a good amount of control. The S7 can still spin very well but it is more suited more for speedy shots with a good amount of spin rather than a pure slow looping style.

 

Xiom Feel AX
84 grams, OFF, 6mm







 I saved the best for last (my personal preference among all Feel blades but ZX3 and  ZX2 are awesome too). This is the cheapest composite blade among the Feel blades and if I am not mistaken this is in the range of the Xiom Quad V1 or Clipper CR. It is made in China but the quality is not inferior, although the Japan-made blades like the HX and ZX blades (with the exception of ZX1) have a better quality finish. Nevertheless, what made me fall in love with this blade is that it is blade with complete package. Yes, it is not as fast as a Viscaria because I would rate it as OFF and not an OFF+ blade but the speed is more than enough. I am biased about the feel but among the composite Feel blades, the AX  is the one that has best feel. It has little to no vibration. It has a thin 7 ply construction and it provides enough flex to loop the ball slowly and with great spin or loop drive the ball. In short, the AX is dynamic blade where you it can give you the spin you wanted in a blade or be a powerful attacking blade but maintains a good amount of control. I really like the Xiom Vega Euro blade even until today. They possess almost the same speed and control but the AX has more flex and the surface of the top plies are not as hard. The AX does not feel too hard but does not feel soft that it decreases your power. Also, a good bonus is the weight. The Blade ranges about 84-87 grams. Mine is 84 grams and when I paired it with a Xiom Omega VII Pro and Euro rubbers, the set up is light. Even with the Globe 999 national and Omega V euro rubbers before, the set up does not feel heavy and not even head heavy compared to other blades I had in the past. I think it is safe to say that the AX is the blade that was really unexpected and surprisingly good despite the cheaper price. This blade made me shift to a controlled composite blade due to me wanting a less physically demanding set up.

 

I would rate the blades objectively basing on performance, balance of speed and control, weight and feel (highest to lowest):

 

1.      ZX3

2.      ZX2

3.      HX Pro

4.      SX (if not for the weight this could have been number 2)

5.      AX

6.      HX

7.      ZX1

8.      S7



-------------
Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach



Replies:
Posted By: richrf
Date Posted: 11/23/2017 at 8:23am
Thanks for the review yogi_bear!

Were these blades provided by the company of were they purchased off the rack? Thanks.


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 11/23/2017 at 8:50am
provided by xiom through pingpongonline.com and megaspin.net. both stores helped me contact the marketing manager

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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: richrf
Date Posted: 11/23/2017 at 9:02am
Thanks!


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 11/28/2017 at 10:13pm
updated the reviews. added zx blades. will add the thickness and weight later. need to find the paper where i wrote down the specs.

-------------
Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: the_theologian
Date Posted: 11/28/2017 at 10:48pm
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

The ZX blades are a major improvement when compared to the older Hayabusha series.


And the major improvement is what, exactly?


-------------
Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 11/28/2017 at 11:37pm
Originally posted by the_theologian the_theologian wrote:

Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

The ZX blades are a major improvement when compared to the older Hayabusha series.


And the major improvement is what, exactly?

they do not feel like the old hayabusha series and they play better. some people would say the hayabusha series were mostly on the visual aspects only. the zx series are much better and not just so-so blades.


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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: the_theologian
Date Posted: 11/29/2017 at 2:39am
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Originally posted by the_theologian the_theologian wrote:

Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

<p ="msonospacing"=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">The
ZX blades are a major improvement when compared to the older Hayabusha series.
</span>




And the major improvement is what, exactly?


they do not feel like the old hayabusha series and they play better. some people would say the hayabusha series were mostly on the visual aspects only. the zx series are much better and not just so-so blades.


Lol! Ok, I'm sure these subjective-sentiments-spoken-as-fact are just coincidentally being said about the blade series currently available, and it wouldn't be vice versa if the Hayabusa series was just released instead.

-------------
Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max


Posted By: BaiMile
Date Posted: 11/29/2017 at 3:05am
Yogi, is there any common features between ZX1 and Vega Pro, concerning outer limba ply?


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 11/29/2017 at 6:14am
Originally posted by the_theologian the_theologian wrote:

Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Originally posted by the_theologian the_theologian wrote:

Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

<p ="msonospacing"=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">The
ZX blades are a major improvement when compared to the older Hayabusha series.
</span>




And the major improvement is what, exactly?


they do not feel like the old hayabusha series and they play better. some people would say the hayabusha series were mostly on the visual aspects only. the zx series are much better and not just so-so blades.


Lol! Ok, I'm sure these subjective-sentiments-spoken-as-fact are just coincidentally being said about the blade series currently available, and it wouldn't be vice versa if the Hayabusa series was just released instead.


Disagree. I have tried the hayabusha blades and i did not like them one bit.

-------------
Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 11/29/2017 at 6:15am
Originally posted by BaiMile BaiMile wrote:

Yogi, is there any common features between ZX1 and Vega Pro, concerning outer limba ply?


Sorry i only tried the vega euro

-------------
Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 11/29/2017 at 6:18am
I am a fan Of the stradi and vega euro blafes but never tbe hayabusha. They just feel different.

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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: GabrielTopspin
Date Posted: 11/29/2017 at 7:42am
which from these 5 xiom feel do you find the best top 3 ?
which have a medium to high throw and a big sweetspot from these 5 blades and are relative fast (the zx3 has a low throw and is not so good for looping as the zx1 and zx2 right?) thank you very much




Posted By: richrf
Date Posted: 11/29/2017 at 8:30am
I guess it is worth mentioning that Xiom claims that they are cutting up 250 year old Kiri Hinoki trees as part of their "marketing" plan for these new blades. I wrote to them trying to confirm this but never received a response. I'll take them at their word.


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 11/29/2017 at 9:50am
Zx3 and feel ax are my personal choices.

-------------
Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: GabrielTopspin
Date Posted: 11/29/2017 at 10:15am
Thank You very much, Do You test the feel sx too?


Are the zx2, zx1, sx Good for Looping too
I have the Innerforce Layer Alc as Main blade could the zx3 be an alternative or is IT to Low throw and not flexible enough


You Liked the carbonado 245/290 i hope the zx3 has More flex :))


Posted By: the_theologian
Date Posted: 11/30/2017 at 11:08am
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Originally posted by the_theologian the_theologian wrote:

Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Originally posted by the_theologian the_theologian wrote:

Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

[DIV]<p ="msonospacing"=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">The
ZX blades are a major improvement when compared to the older Hayabusha series.
</span>[/P][/DIV]

[DIV]
[/DIV][DIV]And the major improvement is what, exactly?[/DIV]

[DIV]
[/DIV][DIV]they do not feel like the old hayabusha series and they play better. some people would say the hayabusha series were mostly on the visual aspects only. the zx series are much better and not just so-so blades.[/DIV]


Lol! Ok, I'm sure these subjective-sentiments-spoken-as-fact are just coincidentally being said about the blade series currently available, and it wouldn't be vice versa if the Hayabusa series was just released instead. [IMG]smileys/smiley24.gif" align="middle[/IMG]


Disagree. I have tried the hayabusha blades and i did not like them one bit.


"Did like them one bit" = subjective sentiment. Your previous comments were said as fact. Hayabusa (not Hayabusha, btw) series has Koto outer, the Feel series has Hinoki outer. Of course they feel different.

Xiom sponsored this "review".

-------------
Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max


Posted By: bard romance
Date Posted: 11/30/2017 at 11:22am
theologian, of course. Unfortunately that's just the way things are when someone sends you something for free, it would take serious balls to put out a review to the internet that you didn't like it at all and wouldn't recommend it. Not honest, but it makes sense. I've yet to hear a review where a blade or rubber didn't have great spin or spin that was versatile across every type of shot. Or a serious discussion about something's drawbacks. That's why I take the publicly-published reviews lightly. It does take many sessions to accurately assess whether you really like equipment or not, and I wonder if those are accounted for in these reviews, though I doubt it. 


Posted By: AMonteiro
Date Posted: 11/30/2017 at 11:33am
Yogi, judging the pictures I have the impression that the neck of these blades are larger compared to other Xiom blades I tried (Strad, Extreme S, Zeta Offensive..). 

Do you have any info about it? Are the newer shapes different?


-------------
Dynaryz AGR /Yasaka Goiabao 5 / Dynaryz AGR


Posted By: the_theologian
Date Posted: 11/30/2017 at 12:32pm
Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

theologian, of course. Unfortunately that's just the way things are when someone sends you something for free, it would take serious balls to put out a review to the internet that you didn't like it at all and wouldn't recommend it. Not honest, but it makes sense. I've yet to hear a review where a blade or rubber didn't have great spin or spin that was versatile across every type of shot. Or a serious discussion about something's drawbacks. That's why I take the publicly-published reviews lightly. It does take many sessions to accurately assess whether you really like equipment or not, and I wonder if those are accounted for in these reviews, though I doubt it. 


I consider them to be infomercials.


-------------
Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 11/30/2017 at 11:37pm
If you have not tried the hayabusha series or even just heard the reviews of people about them then i encourage you to try someone else's zx's blades and.compare it to a hayabusha. Otherwise i am not the one making a blind assumption here.
Bard romance, is 3 weeks of testing not enough for you? I had these blades since 1st week of November.

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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 11/30/2017 at 11:51pm
Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

theologian, of course. Unfortunately that's just the way things are when someone sends you something for free, it would take serious balls to put out a review to the internet that you didn't like it at all and wouldn't recommend it. Not honest, but it makes sense. I've yet to hear a review where a blade or rubber didn't have great spin or spin that was versatile across every type of shot. Or a serious discussion about something's drawbacks. That's why I take the publicly-published reviews lightly. It does take many sessions to accurately assess whether you really like equipment or not, and I wonder if those are accounted for in these reviews, though I doubt it. 


Not if you read reviews thoroughly and read between the lines. There are positive and negative aspects in a revirw. You just need to check them ou properly.

-------------
Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 11/30/2017 at 11:57pm
Originally posted by the_theologian the_theologian wrote:

Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Originally posted by the_theologian the_theologian wrote:

Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Originally posted by the_theologian the_theologian wrote:

Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

<p ="msonospacing"=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"">The
ZX blades are a major improvement when compared to the older Hayabusha series.
</span>




And the major improvement is what, exactly?




they do not feel like the old hayabusha series and they play better. some people would say the hayabusha series were mostly on the visual aspects only. the zx series are much better and not just so-so blades.


Lol! Ok, I'm sure these subjective-sentiments-spoken-as-fact are just coincidentally being said about the blade series currently available, and it wouldn't be vice versa if the Hayabusa series was just released instead.


Disagree. I have tried the hayabusha blades and i did not like them one bit.


"Did like them one bit" = subjective sentiment. Your previous comments were said as fact. Hayabusa (not Hayabusha, btw) series has Koto outer, the Feel series has Hinoki outer. Of course they feel different.

Xiom sponsored this "review".


"did not like them one bit", pls do not twist or change my words. Again, you are assuming something you did not see me saying. So what if the hayabusha wS released ahead? I have always voiced out my sentiments against the hayabusha before when people ask me both in pm and in public. Te reason for not liking the hayabusha is that it is just an average to above average blade and the wY it plays is not that great compared to the xiom vega euro which again i had all praise for the blade even wayyyyy before xiom sent me items. Again, please do not nitpick on me if you have not known my statements against blades that i hated and.i like before.

-------------
Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: the_theologian
Date Posted: 12/01/2017 at 12:08am
I mistyped there and meant to type it just as you wrote it,"did not like them one bit." I was intending to quote you directly and call it subjective, which it obviously is. Your answer for how the Feel series is a "major improvement" is because you like it better.

I get it, everything they put in your hands is going to be awesome. They aren't selling the Hayabusa (the fact you keep misspelling it makes me wonder if you're trolling) anymore so you're free to badmouth it.

I see these kinds of "reviews" in other industries.

-------------
Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 12/01/2017 at 12:19am
By the way, it is pointless arguing about it unless you yourselves tried the blades in question. The moment you have fully tried them and compared them then we will talk.

-------------
Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 12/01/2017 at 12:24am
Xiom does not produce the hayabusa but they are still being sold by stores plenty online. One store which a friend of mine owns. Your point is moot. I would agree there are subjectivity in reviews i get your point but if that will be our only basis for researching on each equipment then we should not believe everything se read. I always tell people to take my reviews with a grain of salt but pkease argue with me directly on the comparison Of items when you tried both. If not i am not the one who is being biased here.

-------------
Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: nv42
Date Posted: 12/01/2017 at 1:26am
Any tt equipment junkie is sure to have read a whole lot of yogi's reviews! Never once have I felt that he is trying to outright 'promote' any particular brand, he has reviewed stuff from a whole lot of different brands. Now coming to your statement as to why yogi has never said 'this thing is absolute garbage' is maybe because he has never reviewed any product that bad. Also, I don't know why, when someone states the negatives in a way that does not add any insult to the product, some people just don't seem pleased with it.

Iv owned both the Hayabusa zxi and the vega pro, in no way will I ever say the Hayabusa is a bad blade, it may not be perfect for professional play with a particular style, but it is definitely a good blade with a few positives and negatives. The vega pro was definitely a one up on the Hayabusa and here I'd definitely take yogi's words as they are regarding the xiom feel series. Also, only complaint I'd have about xiom blades is their handles, the logo on the handle is a sticker which just comes out after a while, and iv always found their handles to be a bit too thin.

-------------
1.dhs pg2 fl

-FH t05h (max)
-BH tibhar genius (max)


Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 12/01/2017 at 5:39am
Nv42. I agree. People should realize that there are lots of good blades in the market but they vary from average to very good blades depending on the user. Considering that formulas of blades have been recycled , i do not see why newer blades with the same or almost composition can be bad.

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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


Posted By: richrf
Date Posted: 12/01/2017 at 8:21am
Besides the variability in production of blades (as Baal often points out), I believe the biggest problem with initial reviews is that the blades and rubbers may be handpicked by the manufacturer providing them for reviews. In time, more opinions will be developed by different players with different tastes which will give a better overall picture.


Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 12/01/2017 at 8:59am
Thanks yogi.

I have ZX2 and ZX3 provided by TT11 for review. FWIW: my speed ratings agree with manufacturers and differ from yours: ZX2 is one class faster than ZX3 (ZX3 being a bit t slower than Viscaria).

-------------
Trade feedback:
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787


Posted By: dual700
Date Posted: 12/01/2017 at 10:29am
I always enjoy your reviews, Yogi. 
Thanks a lot Clap


Posted By: bard romance
Date Posted: 12/01/2017 at 10:43am
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

theologian, of course. Unfortunately that's just the way things are when someone sends you something for free, it would take serious balls to put out a review to the internet that you didn't like it at all and wouldn't recommend it. Not honest, but it makes sense. I've yet to hear a review where a blade or rubber didn't have great spin or spin that was versatile across every type of shot. Or a serious discussion about something's drawbacks. That's why I take the publicly-published reviews lightly. It does take many sessions to accurately assess whether you really like equipment or not, and I wonder if those are accounted for in these reviews, though I doubt it. 


Not if you read reviews thoroughly and read between the lines. There are positive and negative aspects in a revirw. You just need to check them ou properly.

Oh I should have specified that I was actually referring more to the TableTennisDaily "reviews", not yours. It is good to know that you used the blade for 3 weeks, that would be about ample time to come to a conclusion. 


Posted By: richrf
Date Posted: 12/01/2017 at 11:21am
What would help in general is if reviewers provide some baseline for comparisons, e.g. what type of blades they like and usually play with. I like the way TTgearlab establishes some baseline, e.g. Stiga all-around classic. This is very helpful.


Posted By: ohwell
Date Posted: 12/01/2017 at 11:24am
Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:

What would help in general is if reviewers provide some baseline for comparisons, e.g. what type of blades they like and usually play with. I like the way TTgearlab establishes some baseline, e.g. Stiga all-around classic. This is very helpful.


They do when they compare the blade reviewed to other blades.   The ttgearlab Stiga Allround thing is a bit different: it’s about calibrating the results of lab tests.

I guess it might be interesting if reviewers got in the habit of all using the same few blades as comparison point? (eg Viscaria + Allround Classic + Clipper.) it would be hard to implement though.



Posted By: richrf
Date Posted: 12/01/2017 at 11:32am
Originally posted by ohwell ohwell wrote:

Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:

What would help in general is if reviewers provide some baseline for comparisons, e.g. what type of blades they like and usually play with. I like the way TTgearlab establishes some baseline, e.g. Stiga all-around classic. This is very helpful.


They do when they compare the blade reviewed to other blades.   The ttgearlab Stiga Allround thing is a bit different: it’s about calibrating the results of lab tests.

I guess it might be interesting if reviewers got in the habit of all using the same few blades as comparison point? (eg Viscaria + Allround Classic + Clipper.) it would be hard to implement though.



It's not that different. It's just a different kind of "calibration". Reviewer preferences can be very helpful in understanding a POV.

But as I said previously, the biggest problem is that the manufacturer is hand selecting the reviewed material, especially so since they do not provide any v specifications can about the material being used. Thishuge. Consumers Reports, as an example, in their reviews makes a point about this and tells its readers that they diminish this issue by purchasing all products by themselves direct from a retailer. This, of course, is not feasible for table tennis reviewers, so one just had to wait for reviews from others who purchase directly from an online store.


    Posted By: GabrielTopspin
    Date Posted: 12/01/2017 at 12:22pm
    I think everything is said, now lets come to These beautiful Babys :)


    Posted By: ohwell
    Date Posted: 12/01/2017 at 1:23pm
    Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

    Thanks yogi.

    I have ZX2 and ZX3 provided by TT11 for review. FWIW: my speed ratings agree with manufacturers and differ from yours: ZX2 is one class faster than ZX3 (ZX3 being a bit t slower than Viscaria).


    Which manufacturer ratings, is the info on their website mistaken like for the SX? (The website gives them both the same speed rating, but gives ZXIII a higher catapult rating.)


    Posted By: NextLevel
    Date Posted: 12/03/2017 at 11:05pm
    Originally posted by ohwell ohwell wrote:

    Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

    Thanks yogi.

    I have ZX2 and ZX3 provided by TT11 for review. FWIW: my speed ratings agree with manufacturers and differ from yours: ZX2 is one class faster than ZX3 (ZX3 being a bit t slower than Viscaria).


    Which manufacturer ratings, is the info on their website mistaken like for the SX? (The website gives them both the same speed rating, but gives ZXIII a higher catapult rating.)

    Yeah, my impression is that the website puts the ZX3 as faster.


    -------------
    https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
    Cybershape Carbon
    FH/BH: H3P 41D.
    Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


    Posted By: slevin
    Date Posted: 12/04/2017 at 10:41am
    Yes, I see that manufacturer has same speed but higher catapault rating for ZX3. I disagree. I had both blades with me to test. The ZX2 was a whole mm thicker (I measured using calipers) but was made of the same materials as the ZX3. It was clearly bouncier & had more catapault (I think I have the frequency readings on the TT11 testing page).

    Though, in the end, what matters is both blades are fast enough. What matters is whether you like Innerforce like construction or the other one (and also what thickness blades you prefer).


    -------------
    Trade feedback:
    http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787


    Posted By: LOG1C1AN
    Date Posted: 12/07/2017 at 2:12pm
    Slevin was kind enough to send me the Xiom ZX3 for testing. I did a short two hour test last night. Here are my brief impressions.


    The blade is also high quality with a very smooth finish. Tons of info printed on both sides including the claim of 250 year old Kiso Hinoki wood. In my semi-professional estimate I would say the wood is not a day over 225. Tongue

    The handle has a slightly less smooth finish than the blade. It is also very slightly smaller than the width of the blade so that you can feel the blade sticking out from the handle as you run your thumb around the circumference of the handle. Not a deal breaker, but an unexpected small flaw for an expensive blade.

    This blade is light weighing 83.3 on my scale.

    I glued with rubber cement an Andro Rasanter R47 2.0 black to the FH and an Air DefenderS 2.0 red to the BH. Even with lighter 2.0 rubbers the glued blade felt head heavy in my hand which is not my preference. The wings on the blade are sharp, and if I owned it I would for sure do some sanding.

    I am currently playing with a Butterfly Primorac Carbon weighing 85 grams. A few years ago when they first hit the market I owned two Xiom Hayabusa ZXi's and played them for about 8 months.

    The line is marketed as the Feel series. This blade does have very good feel. From the very first balls I hit the blade just felt right. I did not struggle at all to place the ball where I wanted with various shots. The blade is fast, but my own blade is fast and I would estimate the speed about equal to my Primorac Carbon. I felt like the touch was probably better with the ZX3 than the Primorac. For a fast blade, the over the table and mid-range game was excellent. I rarely play far back from the table except in practice rallies, but there was enough pop to handle a long game. However, far back from the table there was a small power drop off compared to the Primorac.

    I have one major dislike about it that is a deal breaker for me. It has a very small / short handle. I'm a bigger guy at 6'3" and about 230, and the handle was uncomfortably small for me. The handle is also about 1/8" shorter than the Primorac. If I owned it I would probably have a craftsman replace the handle for me.

    Overall though, an excellent blade.




    Posted By: the_theologian
    Date Posted: 12/07/2017 at 2:19pm
    Originally posted by LOG1C1AN LOG1C1AN wrote:


    I glued with rubber cement...


    So, I'm not alone. Cheers for using rubber cement.

    -------------
    Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max


    Posted By: cyber_613
    Date Posted: 12/08/2017 at 12:17am
    Amazing feel series.
    How Feel ZX2, ZX3 compare with vega tour, vega pro?


    -------------
    Blade: ZhangJike T5000
    FH: Andro Ransanter R42 - Max
    BH: Joola Maxxx P - 2.0


    Posted By: ohwell
    Date Posted: 12/10/2017 at 8:19pm
    Yogi, what are the dimensions of the Feel blades?


    Posted By: Baal
    Date Posted: 12/11/2017 at 6:51am
    Here is one thing for sure. If you try one of these and like it, buy a few more immediately because nobody discontinues blades sooner after their introduction than Xiom, and they change designs of the "same" blade significantly without notice.


    Posted By: NextLevel
    Date Posted: 12/11/2017 at 7:03am
    Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

    Here is one thing for sure. If you try one of these and like it, buy a few more immediately because nobody discontinues blades sooner after their introduction than Xiom, and they change designs of the "same" blade significantly without notice.


    Yes. The Vega Pros I bought three years apart are completely different blades. Same with the Vega Tours. The second set were much stiffer and amazingly lighter.

    -------------
    https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
    Cybershape Carbon
    FH/BH: H3P 41D.
    Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


    Posted By: nv42
    Date Posted: 12/11/2017 at 3:20pm
    Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

    Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

    Here is one thing for sure. If you try one of these and like it, buy a few more immediately because nobody discontinues blades sooner after their introduction than Xiom, and they change designs of the "same" blade significantly without notice.


    Yes. The Vega Pros I bought three years apart are completely different blades. Same with the Vega Tours. The second set were much stiffer and amazingly lighter.


    I have tried a few vega pros bought from tt11 and a few from tt-japan. For whatever reason, the tt11 ones were stiffer and heavier with a harder feel, while the ones from tt japan were all lighter, flexier with a nice smooth kinda feel. Definitely like the tt Japan ones better, the differnces were big enough to make it feel like a completely differnt blade.

    Maybe both retailers stocked differnt batches of the ply? Vega pro is made in Korea right? So doubt they manufacture specifically for Asia /Europe.

    -------------
    1.dhs pg2 fl

    -FH t05h (max)
    -BH tibhar genius (max)


    Posted By: yogi_bear
    Date Posted: 12/18/2017 at 9:44am
    all the xiom feel blades are 150x157mm

    updated with reviews for the sx, ax, s7


    -------------
    Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

    ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


    Posted By: ohwell
    Date Posted: 12/18/2017 at 10:45am
    Yogi, what's the outer wood on AX, heat treated Koto?


    Posted By: yogi_bear
    Date Posted: 12/18/2017 at 7:15pm
    Yup it is koto

    -------------
    Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

    ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


    Posted By: polbotinka
    Date Posted: 12/19/2017 at 5:10am
    Thanks for the great review.

    How do you think, is AX blade suitable for hard Chinese rubber?


    Posted By: ohwell
    Date Posted: 12/19/2017 at 10:21am
    Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

    Yup it is koto


    Thanks!

    One more question: how thick is the ZX1?


    Posted By: yogi_bear
    Date Posted: 12/19/2017 at 11:12am
    About 6-6.2mm

    -------------
    Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

    ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


    Posted By: yogi_bear
    Date Posted: 12/19/2017 at 11:15am
    I have spent a great deal of time with the zxii and ii. The difference in speed is not much but imo the zxiii has this extra bounciness and kick.

    -------------
    Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

    ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


    Posted By: ohwell
    Date Posted: 12/19/2017 at 4:29pm
    Yogi, you say that the AX is slower than the Viscaria.  Is it by much, or just a little?  How does the speed compare to e.g. a clipper? (I might be looking for an ALC style blade that's a few notches slower than Viscaria.)


    Posted By: richrf
    Date Posted: 12/19/2017 at 9:20pm
    Originally posted by nv42 nv42 wrote:



    I have tried a few vega pros bought from tt11 and a few from tt-japan. For whatever reason, the tt11 ones were stiffer and heavier with a harder feel, while the ones from tt japan were all lighter, flexier with a nice smooth kinda feel. Definitely like the tt Japan ones better, the differnces were big enough to make it feel like a completely differnt blade.

    Maybe both retailers stocked differnt batches of the ply? Vega pro is made in Korea right? So doubt they manufacture specifically for Asia /Europe.


    Interesting. Table tennis equipment purchasing is funky.


    Posted By: yogi_bear
    Date Posted: 12/19/2017 at 10:08pm
    Slower by 10%??? Viscaria > ax

    -------------
    Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

    ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


    Posted By: ohwell
    Date Posted: 12/19/2017 at 10:15pm
    Thanks yogi :)


    Posted By: SmackDAT
    Date Posted: 12/20/2017 at 5:14pm
    Composition of ZX1 and SX with thickness please yogi?

    -------------
    Zhang Jike ALC AN (88g)
    Tenergy 05 Hard (2.1, B)
    Tenergy 19 (2.1, R)
    https://goo.gl/bFWoxW" rel="nofollow - https://goo.gl/bFWoxW


    Posted By: ohwell
    Date Posted: 12/20/2017 at 6:45pm
    He gave the thickness above: SX = 6.48mm. (7w + 2, inner composite)   ZX1=6ish. (5w + 2)

    Also curious about the woods, especially the darker ply of wood under the SX’s top ply. (Walnut? Wenge?)


    Posted By: yogi_bear
    Date Posted: 12/20/2017 at 10:00pm
    Anegre is sx's top ply. Zx1 is limba not hinoki


    Posted By: MydasDiablo
    Date Posted: 12/21/2017 at 4:51pm
    Thanks for the great review Yogi, I have tried many blades and for my game Koto outer plies feel so much better to me than Limber or Hinoki. I actually really dislike the feeling of the ball sinking into the wood before it leaves the bat (funny because I hear so many people looking for this quality in a blade). 

    I currently play with a Viscaria (double inverted) and a Double Day Terminator ALC/ZLC (with OX pips on BH). 

    I have recently purchased a couple of sheets of Rozena to concentrate in practice on my double inverted game. I play with my MX-P/OX pips setup in league matches and now that I have reached the top divisions of the two leagues I play in, my double inverted game isn't up to scratch because of years playing pips on BH. 

    I was planning on putting the Rozena on my Viscaria, but have got an itch to potentially try the Vega Euro or Feel AX blades for this setup. 

    To help me decide, could you rate them (Viscaria, Vega Euro, Feel AX) out of 10 relative to each other for:

    Top Speed:
    Catapult on low/medium impact:
    Flex:
    Size of Sweet Spot:
    Feedback:
    Handle/Grip Comfort:
    Head Heaviness (5 being center balanced): 

    I have tried loads of all wood and ZLF blades over the summer, I just can't get on with them now that I have been playing with ALC/ZLC blades for so long (my stroke has shortened to accommodate them). However, I need to retrain my backhand and also relearn serve returns (as with pips I can return anything without having to read the spin - hence buying the Rozena). I would really appreciate your input on the numbers to help me find a blade that has a really great power to control ratio and that will play ok with the somewhat mushy (compared to my usual MX-P) Rozena rubbers.

    Thanks.


    Posted By: yogi_bear
    Date Posted: 12/22/2017 at 5:36am
    Viscaria is faster than ax, ax has more gears. It can be slow when you need additional control but can be fast.if you need the power. Ax has more flex.feedback is almost the saMe but with the ax having a softer feel. I am shaving the neck part of the ax because the neck part seems to interfere with my grip. Viscaria has a more comfortable grip. Ax tend to be a 3/5 in balance with mode on the head

    -------------
    Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

    ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


    Posted By: yogi_bear
    Date Posted: 12/22/2017 at 5:37am
    One more thing, the metal logo at the sides of the handle needs to be sealed. They get discolored or tarnished easily by sweat.

    -------------
    Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

    ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


    Posted By: MydasDiablo
    Date Posted: 12/22/2017 at 6:03am
    Thanks Yogi, very helpful Smile

    I read somewhere else that they had the same problem with the new handle design on the Feel series, it's a bit odd how they have done it. To be honest, that's a deal breaker for me as I am not into having to customise a blade. I get that they are designed mainly for a market of small handed players, but it irritates me nonetheless. 

    That leaves the Vega Euro vs my Viscaria, which I guess is a question for another thread. I think the 158x152 head size is the deal breaker for me there, too head heavy and I have thin wrists. 

    It's a real shame, from everything I have read about Xiom blades over the years people always love the performance, strange head and handle sizes and lack of finishing all of which effect comfort and balance seem to be the most common things people give them up for. That said, if you are willing to do a bit of customising, or go to a straight handle when you are used to flared etc, you can't deny their price/performance ratio is overall very attractive. I mean, the Vega Pro and Euro, similar to JM and JK SZLC, are around £70-£75 shipped to the UK from TT-Japan. 


    Posted By: yogi_bear
    Date Posted: 12/22/2017 at 11:55am
    Xiom told me that they are doing something about the logo.

    -------------
    Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

    ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


    Posted By: nv42
    Date Posted: 12/22/2017 at 7:17pm
    Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

    One more thing, the metal logo at the sides of the handle needs to be sealed. They get discolored or tarnished easily by sweat.

    Well, Atleast they put in a metal logo this time, my vega pro literally has a shiny sticker which comes out after a bit of use. Xiom handles really suck tbh, donic and tibhar have much better finish and usually thicker handles.

    -------------
    1.dhs pg2 fl

    -FH t05h (max)
    -BH tibhar genius (max)


    Posted By: mon22
    Date Posted: 01/13/2018 at 12:23am
    Yogi

    Do you know if these ST handles is close to the TIMO BOLL series dimensions

    Square instead of flat and rounded?

    -------------
    I am a total Newb. Come at me!


    Posted By: SpinnyGonzales
    Date Posted: 01/14/2018 at 6:25am
    Ive just got a 

    Xiom Feel HX Pro FL after 1.5 years of playing with Innerforce Layer ALC ST. 
    Test rubbers: t05 FH, Acuda Blue P2 on BH.

    FH
    The blade felt great in FH topspin straight from the first session. The overall result on FH is softer. Feels slower and more controlled in the short game and faster in power shots which is exactly what I was looking for.
    It's more stable in blocking and I dont feel it lacking flexibility. The overall balance feels a bit better but I find it worse in FH to BH transitions. A better handle would solve the problem.
    Good for lifting underspin balls, I didnt miss shots I wouldnt have missed with the Innerforce anyway.

    BH
    The Acuda P2 - I bought a new sheet for the blade.
    I developed a very safe and powerful when needed BH with Innerforce and now on the Xiom blade I dont feel at home with this rubber anymore.
    It felt too springy and fast and i couldnt really adapt in passive shots, they were too long, blocks went too long. Either the rubber needs to break in (which I dont remember happening on Innerforce - I played with about 5 sheets of P2 bought new) or it's too soft for the blade.

    Can anyone suggest a BH rubber since im very used to acuda p2 on Innerforce Layer ALC?

    I want to change the handle and find a good balance to call it a great blade.



    -------------
    Heavy backspin on the ball
    Doesn't bother me at all


    Posted By: yogi_bear
    Date Posted: 01/15/2018 at 6:52am
    Try omega v pro

    -------------
    Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

    ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


    Posted By: mon22
    Date Posted: 01/19/2018 at 9:16pm
    Any feedback comparison of the ZX1 vs mizutani jun

    -------------
    I am a total Newb. Come at me!


    Posted By: mon22
    Date Posted: 01/27/2018 at 11:36pm
    Bump

    -------------
    I am a total Newb. Come at me!


    Posted By: AznThunder
    Date Posted: 01/28/2018 at 2:08pm
    @Yogi, How would you compare AX with TB W7? I'm looking more for a stiff hard hitting blade rather than flex-looping one

    -------------

    Nittaku Tenaly Original
    Nittaku Fastarc G-1 // Victas 402 Double Extra


    Posted By: yogi_bear
    Date Posted: 01/28/2018 at 9:16pm
    Tb w7 is an all wood blade so yo need to compare it with S7 not ax. S7 and w7 have the same heaviness but w7 seems more stiff and faster.

    -------------
    Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

    ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


    Posted By: yogi_bear
    Date Posted: 01/28/2018 at 9:16pm
    Zx1 is slower than jun mizutani and zx1 has more flex.

    -------------
    Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

    ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


    Posted By: iakovka
    Date Posted: 02/28/2018 at 3:49pm
    Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

    Zx1 is slower than jun mizutani and zx1 has more flex.

    Never fully understood what ppl includ the term "flex" of the blade. Maybe someone can explain me...?

    On a separate note, tried ZX1 for one session, 2-3 hours, comparing it Hayabusa ZXI (on both blades same setup - Xiom Omega V Tour max FH and Rakza 7Soft 2MM BH). Not a 100% comparison as I put notably older rubbers on ZX1 vs. new set on Hayabusa ZXI but nonetheless.

    First impressions were quite positive, enough control speed and spin but different from Hayabusa - I need a few more sessions to confidently compare all metrics but just basics: ZXI is slightly faster but not materially. ZX1 has more feel, on Blocks - for sure.

    to be continued...


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    XIOM ZX1 Feel 85 Gr, FH: XIOM Omega VII Pro, BH: Rakza 7 Soft 2MM
    XIOM ZXI 88 Gr, FH: XIOM Omega V Tour, BH: Rakza Soft 7 2MM


    Posted By: VictorK
    Date Posted: 03/11/2018 at 4:10pm
    Does anyone have an informed opinion on which of the Xiom Feel series blades is most similar to the Xiom Vega Euro blade?

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    99% practice
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    Posted By: Jacksupreme
    Date Posted: 03/11/2018 at 4:21pm
    bump but for zetro quad

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    >implying any of us are good


    Posted By: iakovka
    Date Posted: 04/30/2018 at 12:30pm
    Originally posted by VictorK VictorK wrote:

    Does anyone have an informed opinion on which of the Xiom Feel series blades is most similar to the Xiom Vega Euro blade?

    Have not tried them all but Xiom feel ax has about the same speed and feel IMHO despite different Carbon.




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    XIOM ZX1 Feel 85 Gr, FH: XIOM Omega VII Pro, BH: Rakza 7 Soft 2MM
    XIOM ZXI 88 Gr, FH: XIOM Omega V Tour, BH: Rakza Soft 7 2MM


    Posted By: iakovka
    Date Posted: 04/30/2018 at 12:38pm
    Originally posted by iakovka iakovka wrote:

    Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

    Zx1 is slower than jun mizutani and zx1 has more flex.

    Never fully understood what ppl includ the term "flex" of the blade. Maybe someone can explain me...?

    On a separate note, tried ZX1 for one session, 2-3 hours, comparing it Hayabusa ZXI (on both blades same setup - Xiom Omega V Tour max FH and Rakza 7Soft 2MM BH). Not a 100% comparison as I put notably older rubbers on ZX1 vs. new set on Hayabusa ZXI but nonetheless.

    First impressions were quite positive, enough control speed and spin but different from Hayabusa - I need a few more sessions to confidently compare all metrics but just basics: ZXI is slightly faster but not materially. ZX1 has more feel, on Blocks - for sure.

    to be continued...

    Just to add a few notes as some asked me to compare with ZXI:

    ZX1 is:
    -  ~5% slower than ZXI Hayabusa
    -  Much more linear than Hayabusa on Drives and Drive-Loops
    -  Has about same control in chops.
    - Easier to flip than with Hayabusa , especially flat flip with no rotation.
    - Banana is easier with Hayabusa since on a short spins it generates higher curve than ZX1
    - About same sweet spot.
    - Counters are easier with ZX1. 
    - Spins on heavy chop are easier to lift with ZXI but harder to control the length vs ZX1




     






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    XIOM ZX1 Feel 85 Gr, FH: XIOM Omega VII Pro, BH: Rakza 7 Soft 2MM
    XIOM ZXI 88 Gr, FH: XIOM Omega V Tour, BH: Rakza Soft 7 2MM


    Posted By: VictorK
    Date Posted: 04/30/2018 at 3:09pm
    Originally posted by iakovka iakovka wrote:

    Originally posted by VictorK VictorK wrote:

    Does anyone have an informed opinion on which of the Xiom Feel series blades is most similar to the Xiom Vega Euro blade?

    Have not tried them all but Xiom feel ax has about the same speed and feel IMHO despite different Carbon.



    @iakovka - Thank you for the commentary.  You're the second person who mentioned ax as being similar to Vega Euro.


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    Posted By: vishal_dindoyal
    Date Posted: 04/30/2018 at 3:29pm
    I have used both the Vega Euro and the FEEL AX for some months. It's true they are quite similar but the more you use them the more you see the difference. The AX has a bit more feel and power in rallies. Which makes it quite controllable. Just imagine a more flexible Viscaria..


    Posted By: yogi_bear
    Date Posted: 05/01/2018 at 8:20am
    Feel ax is a tad softer than euro but there are times that the ax seem to be faster than the euro.

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    Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

    ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


    Posted By: iakovka
    Date Posted: 05/01/2018 at 10:59am
    Originally posted by vishal_dindoyal vishal_dindoyal wrote:

    I have used both the Vega Euro and the FEEL AX for some months. It's true they are quite similar but the more you use them the more you see the difference. The AX has a bit more feel and power in rallies. Which makes it quite controllable. Just imagine a more flexible Viscaria..

    Did not play long enough with the two but what vishal said feels correct to me. 
    AX has more power and feel in rallies while Vega Euro has a sharper feel on short movements, when the impact with the ball is less pronounced, like on drops/touches close to the table. 




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    XIOM ZX1 Feel 85 Gr, FH: XIOM Omega VII Pro, BH: Rakza 7 Soft 2MM
    XIOM ZXI 88 Gr, FH: XIOM Omega V Tour, BH: Rakza Soft 7 2MM


    Posted By: cyber_613
    Date Posted: 05/01/2018 at 11:17am
    I dont think Feel AX is soft. Mine is harder than timoboll alc. Maybe xiom feel ax made in china so the quality is not good.

    https://flic.kr/p/JAJ9sq" rel="nofollow"> https://flic.kr/p/JAJ9sq" rel="nofollow - IMG_6819 by https://www.flickr.com/photos/78126880@N03/" rel="nofollow - cyber_613 , on Flickr

    https://flic.kr/p/JsUbyh" rel="nofollow"> https://flic.kr/p/JsUbyh" rel="nofollow - IMG_20180427_163549 by https://www.flickr.com/photos/78126880@N03/" rel="nofollow - cyber_613 , on Flickr

    https://flic.kr/p/GWBKD6" rel="nofollow"> https://flic.kr/p/GWBKD6" rel="nofollow - Screenshot_2018-04-27-21-29-41-220_com.vuche.asap by https://www.flickr.com/photos/78126880@N03/" rel="nofollow - cyber_613 , on Flickr



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    Blade: ZhangJike T5000
    FH: Andro Ransanter R42 - Max
    BH: Joola Maxxx P - 2.0


    Posted By: tom
    Date Posted: 05/01/2018 at 11:33am
    1550 frequency would make it quite fast. 91 g would be higher than the stated range though. Glad I haven't glued anything on my AX yet.  thought it would be in the 1400 range.


    Posted By: h0n1g
    Date Posted: 05/01/2018 at 11:48am
    That frequency is a LOT higher than I would've thought for the AX. Has anyone measured the ZX3?

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    http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71705&title=feeback-h0n1g" rel="nofollow - My Feedback Thread


    Posted By: iakovka
    Date Posted: 05/01/2018 at 12:36pm
    cyber_613 

    The texture of the top layer of the AX I got was somewhat different from yours. It looked much more uniform too. not sure if it makes a difference though. 

    AX is not soft but it is softer than VEGA PRO and HAYABUSA XZI and Feel ZX1. 
    AX feels slightly harder than VEGA EURO when you hit hard, but softer at light/touch shots - imho.


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    XIOM ZX1 Feel 85 Gr, FH: XIOM Omega VII Pro, BH: Rakza 7 Soft 2MM
    XIOM ZXI 88 Gr, FH: XIOM Omega V Tour, BH: Rakza Soft 7 2MM


    Posted By: Nightsky
    Date Posted: 05/01/2018 at 12:59pm
    Originally posted by iakovka iakovka wrote:

    cyber_613 

    The texture of the top layer of the AX I got was somewhat different from yours. It looked much more uniform too. not sure if it makes a difference though. 

    AX is not soft but it is softer than VEGA PRO and HAYABUSA XZI and Feel ZX1. 
    AX feels slightly harder than VEGA EURO when you hit hard, but softer at light/touch shots - imho.


    Perhaps you are referring to the fact that the top ply in cyber_13's pictures is so called scaly koto, looking a bit different than regular koto...Wink


    Posted By: iakovka
    Date Posted: 05/01/2018 at 1:03pm
    Originally posted by Nightsky Nightsky wrote:

    Originally posted by iakovka iakovka wrote:

    cyber_613 

    The texture of the top layer of the AX I got was somewhat different from yours. It looked much more uniform too. not sure if it makes a difference though. 

    AX is not soft but it is softer than VEGA PRO and HAYABUSA XZI and Feel ZX1. 
    AX feels slightly harder than VEGA EURO when you hit hard, but softer at light/touch shots - imho.


    Perhaps you are referring to the fact that the top ply in cyber_13's pictures is so called scaly koto, looking a bit different than regular koto...Wink

    No, i am saying that my blade's top layer (same blade)  looked somewhat different in texture. 


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    XIOM ZX1 Feel 85 Gr, FH: XIOM Omega VII Pro, BH: Rakza 7 Soft 2MM
    XIOM ZXI 88 Gr, FH: XIOM Omega V Tour, BH: Rakza Soft 7 2MM


    Posted By: Nightsky
    Date Posted: 05/01/2018 at 1:09pm
    Originally posted by iakovka iakovka wrote:

    Originally posted by Nightsky Nightsky wrote:

    Originally posted by iakovka iakovka wrote:

    cyber_613 

    The texture of the top layer of the AX I got was somewhat different from yours. It looked much more uniform too. not sure if it makes a difference though. 

    AX is not soft but it is softer than VEGA PRO and HAYABUSA XZI and Feel ZX1. 
    AX feels slightly harder than VEGA EURO when you hit hard, but softer at light/touch shots - imho.


    Perhaps you are referring to the fact that the top ply in cyber_13's pictures is so called scaly koto, looking a bit different than regular koto...Wink

    No, i am saying that my blade's top layer (same blade)  looked somewhat different in texture. 


    I think I know what you meant (but maybe it is a language issue). You have a Xiom Feel AX and cyber_13 has a Xiom Feel AX and the top plies (top layers) look a bit different from each other, is that it?


    Posted By: slevin
    Date Posted: 05/01/2018 at 2:55pm
    Originally posted by h0n1g h0n1g wrote:

    That frequency is a LOT higher than I would've thought for the AX. Has anyone measured the ZX3?


    My 85g ZX3 is 1335 Hz. But it exhibits flex. So, like the Apolonia ZLC, it is faster than the reading would suggest. Very spinny.

    -------------
    Trade feedback:
    http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787


    Posted By: h0n1g
    Date Posted: 05/06/2018 at 2:12am
    I recently got to try out the ZX3 finally. After yogi_bear, slevin recommended it to me as well. I think the ZX3 has the most dwell i've ever witnessed in a blade. It feels like a miniture trampoline in your hands. Really lets you control the direction of your shots - fantastic amount of control for a blade that is clearly in the OFF category. The one I tried was around 85g. Also, the blade lets you generate silly amounts of spin for such as stiff blade.

    I'm thinking about purchasing one. 

    Does anyone know the full composition of plys for the ZX3?


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    ---
    http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71705&title=feeback-h0n1g" rel="nofollow - My Feedback Thread


    Posted By: VictorK
    Date Posted: 05/08/2018 at 2:05pm
    After soliciting feel opinions on which of the Xiom Feel blades is most similar to the Vega Euro I decided to try the Feel AX.

    Based on playing with Feel AX for approx 10-12 hours (with the same rubbers I used on Euro) I didn't find them to be very similar.

    The AX is meaningfully faster, has considerably harder surface, has less "ball grab" (faster rebound), and feels stiffer than Vega Euro.  AX also has considerably more of sharp carbon feel compared to muted composite feel of Vega Euro.

    I'm definitely not trying to trash the AX - It is a really nice and inexpensive composite blade, but I don't find that much similarity between AX and Euro.

    I'm curious whether I'm missing something, or others have had similar experience with these two blades.




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    99% practice
    1% equipment
    0% ratings


    Posted By: cyber_613
    Date Posted: 05/09/2018 at 1:25am
    Originally posted by VictorK VictorK wrote:

    After soliciting feel opinions on which of the Xiom Feel blades is most similar to the Vega Euro I decided to try the Feel AX.

    Based on playing with Feel AX for approx 10-12 hours (with the same rubbers I used on Euro) I didn't find them to be very similar.

    The AX is meaningfully faster, has considerably harder surface, has less "ball grab" (faster rebound), and feels stiffer than Vega Euro.  AX also has considerably more of sharp carbon feel compared to muted composite feel of Vega Euro.

    I'm definitely not trying to trash the AX - It is a really nice and inexpensive composite blade, but I don't find that much similarity between AX and Euro.

    I'm curious whether I'm missing something, or others have had similar experience with these two blades.



    maybe you have feel ax blade like me. It have fishcale on koto surface and high weight (mine 91gram).
    Haha


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    Blade: ZhangJike T5000
    FH: Andro Ransanter R42 - Max
    BH: Joola Maxxx P - 2.0


    Posted By: VictorK
    Date Posted: 05/09/2018 at 10:00am
    Originally posted by cyber_613 cyber_613 wrote:

    maybe you have feel ax blade like me. It have fishcale on koto surface and high weight (mine 91gram).
    Haha

    @cber_613 - What do you mean by "fishcale on koto surface"?  
    My AX weighs 89 gr.


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    99% practice
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    Posted By: cyber_613
    Date Posted: 05/09/2018 at 10:16am
    Originally posted by VictorK VictorK wrote:

    Originally posted by cyber_613 cyber_613 wrote:

    maybe you have feel ax blade like me. It have fishcale on koto surface and high weight (mine 91gram).
    Haha

    @cber_613 - What do you mean by "fishcale on koto surface"?  
    My AX weighs 89 gr.

    Outer plies (top plies) Like this

    https://flic.kr/p/26Au1f6" rel="nofollow"> https://flic.kr/p/26Au1f6" rel="nofollow - IMG_20180427_163618 by https://www.flickr.com/photos/78126880@N03/" rel="nofollow - cyber_613 , on Flickr




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    Blade: ZhangJike T5000
    FH: Andro Ransanter R42 - Max
    BH: Joola Maxxx P - 2.0


    Posted By: VictorK
    Date Posted: 05/09/2018 at 10:35am
    I see, thank for posting the picture.
    I just took pictures of both sides and mine looks like this: 







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    99% practice
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    Posted By: yogi_bear
    Date Posted: 05/09/2018 at 2:26pm
    Im lucky my feel ax is 84grams. Feel ax is the best blade of the feel series. Next shoukd flbe either zx3 or zx2

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    Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

    ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach


    Posted By: sharking
    Date Posted: 05/10/2018 at 9:53am
    I would also like to know the full layer composition of zx3 and zx2


    Posted By: VictorK
    Date Posted: 05/10/2018 at 1:18pm
    Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

    Im lucky my feel ax is 84grams. Feel ax is the best blade of the feel series. Next shoukd flbe either zx3 or zx2

    I'm not sure how meaningfully the weight of AX affects its feel and performance.

    One thing that I noticed with this blade is that the top ply is very thin, and the aramid-carbon layer is very close to the surface (much closer than in other composite blades I've used before) which probably is the reason for AX's sharp and relatively hard feel, and fast ball rebound ... which makes it very accurate at blocking despite it being rather thin.  My gut tells me that this blade would pair well with grippy/spinny rubbers, and with thicker sponges.

    As to which of the Feel blades is best, I think it's quite subjective.   I feel that people who are used composite blades with muted and softer feel might not enjoy Feel AX as much as yogi_bear does.


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