How does it compare to H3 Neo?

A lot faster, and very spinny also

Feels like a slightly harder MX-P with semi tacky topsheet, slightly slower. A whole different beast from fully Chinese rubbers, in a good or bad way depending on the way you look at it.

Very controlled on Stiga Rosewood VII for my level, feels kind of muted on TB ALC

I was typing on my phone...

It's just better in most ways if you pair it with a fast-ish blade, the semi-tacky surface doesn't affect the speed much which makes it unique to hybrid rubbers, it is nearly the same speed as my Aurus Prime

Once the tack fades away, it still has those chinese rubber characteristics which I like

Guys again I will say. This rubber is one of a few/its kind - the speed is amazing, plays nearly as fast as my Aurus Prime, and the security when countering/touching is better than stock ESN rubbers. This is a rubber worth trying and you will not be wanting to boost this once you try it on an ALC/ZLC blade.

Remember, SmackDAT said it first ;)

The tacky top sheet really generates a lot of spin, and the German sponge has the speed most of the Chinese tacky rubbers lack.  It is slightly heavier than many other rubbers, and it does have a very high throw angle, but it's a very good rubber and it's only $45!

Joola Energy

Joola Samba+

Joola Samba Tech

If they can't make a rubber that feels like Samba with speed glue, you'll pardon me if I am skeptical of their ability to make a rubber that feels like Tuned H3 Provincial.

Whatever, I never said it played like H3 provincial at all. 

Also, you are mitigating a lot of Joola rubbers, such as Rhyzm or Rhyzer 48, so your point isn't valid

This rubber is actually sticky, like a sticky Chinese rubber. This makes it feel slow on low contact, but once the sponge kicks in you get good speed. Topsheet is softer and more elastic compared to something like Hurricane. The rubber is an absolute spin monster. It's nothing like any of their other modern rubbers, in fact it's quite unique.

Sorry I wasn't clear, I was responding to this:

jpenmaster wrote: I switched to this rubber fh/bh on my Viscaria. Feels like a softer faster H3 Neo. Don't get me wrong it's still hard just not unboosted Chinese rubber hard. If you are playing with a Chinese rubber and are getting tired of boosting this is a nice option. Don't plan on playing this like a regular ESN rubber you need to use a brushing technique and it doesn't flat hit well bit to be expected from a Chinese type top sheet

Boosted blue sponge provincial H3 was pretty much the best FH rubber i've used (in terms of versatility and power, while being more forgiving of footwork errors than unboosted chinese FH rubber). 

If ESN has made something that plays like that, it would be game altering for a lot of people. 

My point is that after using Samba NTEC + booster I looked for a backhand replacement and I reached out to other players who had used Samba, even speed glue era players. Several of them swore by Joola Energy. I tried it, then tried the Energy Extra variant. They lacked the short game touch and obscene control in countertopspin that NTEC provided. I later reached out to one of Joola's NA player reps. He recommended starting with Samba variants. I did so, and was let down repeatedly. Through that line. Each of them had glaring faults, ranging from overly sensitive service receive, to catapults that either felt mushy with no spin or highly reactive and unpredictable.

I haven't tried any of the Rhyzm or Rhyzer series on backhand; because after plowing through Joola's modern Samba line, I decided that Joola wouldn't get any more of my money.

For backhand, I found Rasant and until I run out of them, there is no reason to change backhand rubber again. 

This description sums up the rubber very well, although I would say it is no longer unique as Tibhar K1 European version is very similar indeed.

Kolev wrote: Hi. Shall I presume you've tried it?

Yes, it's my main rubber at the moment.

Anyone any idea on the weight of a cut sheet?

I don't know about a cut sheet, but I weighed mine before cutting it at 72g for a sheet of max in black, 168x168mm.

So about what you would expect for a 50 degree ESN rubber

We are looking at MX-S range of weight then, heavier than MX-P which is no feather. 

Looking for a rubber to put on a 101g oversize blade (MPS) without making it too head heavy, I fancy trying this but the weight could be a problem. I tried Omega VII Asia in Max on a 100g JSH and I couldn't swing fast enough for decent looping, too accustomed to light setups, partly because as I have always used OX pips.  

Sedis wrote: This description sums up the rubber very well, although I would say it is no longer unique as Tibhar K1 European version is very similar indeed.

I did wonder about that... the description makes them sound a little different... have you compared both?

Can anyone corroborate this?  

Yes - I'm using Tibhar in 2.0mm on my main blade and have a sheet of the Joola in Max on my back up/trying out rubbers blade.

I can absolutely switch between the two with no adjustment at all.

I measured the hardness of both with a Shore O durometer and they are identical at 50 degrees (I don't know for certain if the ESN ratings are supposed to be Shore O, but the results I get from it are normally very close to the given rating for ESN/German rubbers.)

The Joola weighed 1 gram more when uncut and the difference in thickness is pretty negligible, I would say the Joola is nominally thicker, but I would need a micrometer to tell you by how much.

Unfortunately I didn't fit them at the same time to compare them side by side before glueing, but from memory I would say the Joola felt a little stiffer. I also felt that possibly the Joola needed a small amount of time to break in, whereas I didn't notice this so much with the Tibhar, however as I tried the Joola first I might just have been used to the type of rubber by the time I tried the Tibhar.

Prior to using these rubbers I was using Stiga Genesis II Medium. Although I generally preferred The Genesis II especially when training, I seem to be getting better results now. I think because both the Joola and the Tibhar are faster on hard shots, whilst still giving me what I was after with the tacky topsheet in the short game and for serves etc. 

The tackiness of the K1 European and Joola Golden Tango PS is identical, a fraction less tacky than Genesis II, but still definitely a tacky rubber. 

The top sheet is reasonably thin, but maybe not as thin as the some of the latest thin topsheet/thick sponge ESN rubbers, but again I don't have anything to physically compare it with. 

In other words, instead of getting consistent drives or consistent brushes, the topsheet and sponge started releasing the ball at odd angles.

Here are a couple of pictures:

Joola Golden Tango PS Max (the red rubber is Joola Samba 19 Max) 

And the Tibhar K1 Euro 2.0mm (again the red rubber is Joola Samba 19 Max) 

Thanks a lot Sedis for your posts. They helped me a lot to understand how those rubbers behave, the comparison with the Genesis II M is especially useful to me.

I've been using the Genesis 1 for the past two years but need a harder sponge. I've tried a boosted H3 Neo Nittaku for a while, but it'd take a longer adjustment for me, even though I was still playing correctly with it (the changing throw angle took some time to get used to, though), and require to be always in a good physical condition to be used effectively. I was thinking of a H3 Pro Turbo Orange which is slightly softer and more springy than the H3 Neo, but in the end, this Tibhar K1/K2 range and Joola Golden Tangos might be good options for me.

And here is a picture of Tibhar K1 Pro (purple sponge) and K2 (beige sponge) with Gewo Nexxus EL Pro 48 (yellow sponge) and Androp Hexer Grip (green sponge).

Ha, yes.  That sort of off-white.  A blast from the past.

I can't speak highly enough of the original K1 and K1+.  If you want a fast-ish, well-made hybrid then it's brilliant.  And excellent value for money - you can get K1 for $23, and K2 for $26.  Total bargain.

What is the K1 Pro like? Does the thinner topsheet mean that it plays a bit softer than the 52.5 sponge would suggest? 

Thanks

 

AndySmith wrote: What's K2 like in comparison with.... everything else?

I've been using K1 Pro on Calix 2 since April. K1 Pro is actually perfectly fine out of the box without any boosting. It's a bit less tacky than H3 Neo (but still properly tacky) but the sponge is plenty fast. Looping underspin is a bit harder than with H3 Neo but I find K1 Pro easier to counter more aggressively. Lower throw than H3 Neo. Durability - my first topsheet laster from April till early Jan, playing 3-4 times a week.

K2 on my spare Qabod. Out of the box K2 felt rock hard as compared to K1 Pro or H3 Neo. K2's topsheet is less tacky than K1 Pro's, and the sponge feels even faster than K1 Pro's. Lower throw than K1 Pro. I found it to be a bit too demanding out of the box and so tried boosting K2 with one layer of Falco. Boosted it becomes quite playable but only close to the table, IMO. 

 

I've also now tried both the Tibhar K1 Euro and the Golden Tango PS, they are indeed very similar and it took me no adjustment to swap between them. Great rubbers for spin if you're a brush looper...hard to find anything spinnier that still has good speed.

Preparation: 2 layers of EEII, Primed with 2 layers of FC, glued with 1.5 layers of MC.

Thanks for the update mate.  K2 sounds a bit like Xiom Oza, which is also brick-hard (sponge and topsheet).  I might try K1 Pro if I find a cheapo source for it.  Bit expensive.

Oza's sponge has visible pores unlike K2's sponge.

Well, that's put me off even more now!  Thanks again!

401 is the hardest of all ESN rubbers at 57,5 degree.

So no, it does not have any equivalents hardness-wise.

Although the sponge measured 4° harder on my Shore O durometer than the Golden Tango PS and K1 Euro, it did not actually feel any harder to play with, probably due to the thinner topsheet.

The topsheet is more tacky than the Golden Tango PS and K1 Euro, closer to the tackiness of DHS rubbers.

It is definitely faster than the Golden Tango PS and K1 Euro, probably a little too fast for me in all honesty, but I would be very keen to try one in 2.0mm, if such a thing was available.

It might be worth a try, but the feel is not the same as the 401 which has a harder sponge. The GT is tackier, and probably a little spinnier on serves, but the 401 still rules for chopping and spin on loops. The 401 is also more powerful on hard attacks.