Print Page | Close Window

New Tenergy 05 HARD is coming out next Friday 28th

Printed From: Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET
Category: Equipment
Forum Name: Equipment
Forum Description: Share your experience and discussions about table tennis equipments.
Moderator: haggisv
Assistant Moderators:

URL: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=83747
Printed Date: 11/19/2019 at 7:47am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: New Tenergy 05 HARD is coming out next Friday 28th
Posted By: taczkid
Subject: New Tenergy 05 HARD is coming out next Friday 28th
Date Posted: 09/20/2018 at 10:35am
New Tenergy 05 HARD is coming out next Friday 28th!

I am sure everyone will be very tempted to try... I will definitely be buying one, just hope its less than 80$ lol



Replies:
Posted By: jpenmaster
Date Posted: 09/20/2018 at 11:39am
I ordered some . I just need to get a blade built for testing . You can try it out at the club.   

-------------
Kenta ALC T05H/T05


Posted By: danseemiller
Date Posted: 09/20/2018 at 2:14pm
Looking forward to the new Tenergy.

-------------
DS


Posted By: DonnOlsen
Date Posted: 09/20/2018 at 2:17pm
Hi,

Please read the review by Stefan Feth on butterflyonline.com.

I must say, I find it difficult to believe that a harder sponge delivers in a manner as described in the review.  Some of the qualities noted, yes, I would expect, others not.

I would be interested in others' thoughts.

Also, this seems to track with the traditional Butterfly strategy: first the professional version, then the softer version in the form of FX, then a harder version than the professional version.

Thanks


-------------
Advances in a field are best achieved by constructs that fully reflect the phenomena of interest and are rooted in a theory that specifies their determinants, mediating processes, and its effects.


Posted By: PringlesRingles
Date Posted: 09/20/2018 at 3:10pm
Was it the normal price?


Posted By: acpoulos
Date Posted: 09/20/2018 at 3:17pm
Possibly aimed at Hurricane users...

-------------
Tony


Posted By: Pr1nc
Date Posted: 09/20/2018 at 5:59pm
Butterfly release new beast of rubber that only pros and advance players can control but now millions of amateurs will chasing T05Hard instead of learning basic strokes with allround rubbers. I hope T05Hard will cost 100€ per sheet so Butterfly continue f*****g monkeys :) Butterfly is best TT brand for me.

-------------
Blade: Jun Mizutani ZLC
FH: Victas V > 15 Extra
BH: Victas V > 15 Extra


Posted By: SmackDAT
Date Posted: 09/20/2018 at 6:02pm
Originally posted by Pr1nc Pr1nc wrote:

Butterfly release new beast of rubber that only pros and advance players can control but now millions of amateurs will chasing T05Hard instead of learning basic strokes with allround rubbers. I hope T05Hard will cost 100€ per sheet so Butterfly continue f*****g monkeys :) Butterfly is best TT brand for me.
Well, a lot of players can take advantage of T05 Hard, as it's not even as hard as commercial spin art


-------------
Viscaria FL
Tenergy 05
Tenergy 80
https://goo.gl/bFWoxW" rel="nofollow - https://goo.gl/bFWoxW


Posted By: ChichoFicho
Date Posted: 09/20/2018 at 6:13pm
A 15 euro Spinlord Marder 2.0 mm is a much better rubber for about 99% of the amateurs.

-------------
Darker Speed 70

Hammond FA Speed

Tyotokusen


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 09/20/2018 at 6:29pm
Funny how people who have never played with the rubber are convinced no amateur player could effectively use it.Might want to wait on judgment.


Posted By: Pr1nc
Date Posted: 09/20/2018 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by SmackDAT SmackDAT wrote:

Originally posted by Pr1nc Pr1nc wrote:

Butterfly release new beast of rubber that only pros and advance players can control but now millions of amateurs will chasing T05Hard instead of learning basic strokes with allround rubbers. I hope T05Hard will cost 100€ per sheet so Butterfly continue f*****g monkeys :) Butterfly is best TT brand for me.

Well, a lot of players can take advantage of T05 Hard, as it's not even as hard as commercial spin art


Its not all about hardness, I used T05 when I trained 2h x 9 times a week for 4 years, and in that time I could control and get 100%from my T05. Now I play 1h x 4 times a week and its a pitty for me to use T05 because I cant get max from that rubber so I use slightly same type of rubbber that is less spiny and slower but with much better control. Its all about training.

-------------
Blade: Jun Mizutani ZLC
FH: Victas V > 15 Extra
BH: Victas V > 15 Extra


Posted By: Tt Gold
Date Posted: 09/20/2018 at 6:33pm
Ist just the Professional version of Tenergy, that will now be openly available


Posted By: Pr1nc
Date Posted: 09/20/2018 at 6:41pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Funny how people who have never played with the rubber are convinced no amateur player could effectively use it.Might want to wait on judgment.


Funny how people could even think that rubber that cost minimum 60€ and its a upgraded version from T05 is good for beginers and amateurs.

-------------
Blade: Jun Mizutani ZLC
FH: Victas V > 15 Extra
BH: Victas V > 15 Extra


Posted By: mjamja
Date Posted: 09/20/2018 at 7:18pm
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Hi,

Please read the review by Stefan Feth on butterflyonline.com.

I must say, I find it difficult to believe that a harder sponge delivers in a manner as described in the review.  Some of the qualities noted, yes, I would expect, others not.

I would be interested in others' thoughts.

Also, this seems to track with the traditional Butterfly strategy: first the professional version, then the softer version in the form of FX, then a harder version than the professional version.

Thanks



What in the review did you find surprising? I read it, but I do not really know enough about rubber characteristics to make any kind of judgement.

Mark - Who plans on playing Tenergy 05 Hard as soon as the price drops to $20/sheet.



Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 09/20/2018 at 7:35pm
Will stick to my cheapo hard tacky rubbers which are already hard lol....

-------------
-------
Tacky rubber lover :)

Stiga Clipper CR

FH: Hurricane 8
BH: Hurricane 3-50


Posted By: vanjr
Date Posted: 09/20/2018 at 8:38pm
I am using T05 on my BH and it is pretty soft. I think it is too soft for my taste for a FH. I am surprised it has taken this long.


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 09/20/2018 at 8:39pm
Originally posted by Pr1nc Pr1nc wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Funny how people who have never played with the rubber are convinced no amateur player could effectively use it.Might want to wait on judgment.


Funny how people could even think that rubber that cost minimum 60€ and its a upgraded version from T05 is good for beginers and amateurs.


Easy.  First, an amateur and a beginner are not necessarily the same thing.  An amateur is a non-pro, someone who doesn't do it for a living.  Doesn't mean they are weak players or beginners. 

Second, it is a different version from T05.  The "upgrade" aspect doesn't necessarily mean it would be utterly uncontrollable or that it is even an upgrade.  Some people prefer harder sponge, some don't. 

The fact is, though, since none of us have tried it, none of us know quite how it will play; all we have is the Btfly marketing.  If you have played for any length of time then you know enough to take that with a grain of salt (for any manufacturer).  In this case, the price is part of their marketing

Finally some beginners will shell out money for this and be wasting their money but that is nothing new.


Posted By: TT newbie
Date Posted: 09/20/2018 at 8:50pm
No way I can change to T05H, even if it comes at the same price of regular Tenergy.
For me a DHS Goldarc 8 50° boosted is more than enough.


Posted By: obesechopper
Date Posted: 09/20/2018 at 8:52pm
Originally posted by Pr1nc Pr1nc wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Funny how people who have never played with the rubber are convinced no amateur player could effectively use it.Might want to wait on judgment.


Funny how people could even think that rubber that cost minimum 60€ and its a upgraded version from T05 is good for beginers and amateurs.


I'm with pricnic for the most part. Not saying amateurs cant use the tenergy type rubbers, but I think their consistently certainly drops! It's fun using the fast stuff for those awesome winner shots. And they require less effort!

I swapped to using victas 401 -- first from tenergy then to spin art, finally to 401. The added control in short game and chopping was a real benefit. And since I mainly brush loop for attacks, i didnt lose out on much.

I think it depends how you win your points, tenergy can work for anyone at any level if it fits of course!


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 09/20/2018 at 9:37pm
Originally posted by obesechopper obesechopper wrote:



I think it depends how you win your points, tenergy can work for anyone at any level if it fits of course!


Part of the point I was making (although not any level, but certainly plausible at the levels of plenty of people who don't make a living playing TT --- including, I am sure, plenty of people in higher levels of amateur leagues in Pr1nce's home country). 

But the main point I was making is that we don't know how this new stuff will play.  How can you comment about something that none of us have had a chance to try?


Posted By: obesechopper
Date Posted: 09/20/2018 at 10:12pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by obesechopper obesechopper wrote:



I think it depends how you win your points, tenergy can work for anyone at any level if it fits of course!


Part of the point I was making (although not any level, but certainly plausible at the levels of plenty of people who don't make a living playing TT --- including, I am sure, plenty of people in higher levels of amateur leagues in Pr1nce's home country). 

But the main point I was making is that we don't know how this new stuff will play.  How can you comment about something that none of us have had a chance to try?



Probably based on all the other tenergies! What do you think is the level in usatt in general for someone to use?

I see people from 700+ using it, not that its put to good use!


Posted By: DonnOlsen
Date Posted: 09/20/2018 at 10:20pm
Hi,

[What in the review did you find surprising? I read it, but I do not really know enough about rubber characteristics to make any kind of judgement.]

The review listed the following below.

Advantages:

  • much easier to counter loop against spinny topspin shots.
  • much easier to play short short game with increased backspin
  • increased amount of backspin while pushing
  • much easier to have a strong first ball attack with lower ball trajectory and deeper ball placement at the end of the other side of the table
  •  much easier to block strong topspin shots
  • increased amount of spin on serves overall
  • very good for the short/short game
  • much easier to make backhand banana and strawberry returns
  • maximum amount of spin in general
Well, I'm not really sure about this list either.  My impression is the two outstanding improvements are increased spin and better control in the small game.  I would not have anticipated this if the sole manufacturing alteration is a harder sponge.

If these qualities hold, then I think the rubber will be more controllable than straight up T05.  The conclusion would be the rubber is also slower than its mom, supporting longer dwell times, which, being a harder sponge, would be a characteristic of the Spring sponge.

As T05 FX has been reported as have similar playing characteristics, we have an interesting complex before us.

Soon our EJ brethren will know all and all those humble souls not in this congregation of expertise will benefit, as we have so very often in the past, from their wisdom and understanding.

Thanks.



-------------
Advances in a field are best achieved by constructs that fully reflect the phenomena of interest and are rooted in a theory that specifies their determinants, mediating processes, and its effects.


Posted By: Leftstudio
Date Posted: 09/21/2018 at 1:51am
It is meant to be boosted - just like the Hurricane for China National Team members. I've tried both Hurricane for CNT and Tenergy for National players - it's hard because it is not boosted (if you ask how - here's how: I went to China to visit my coach and he took me to meet some China Team members and they let me try their rubbers). 

Those Tenergy we buy from Butterfly are already factory-boosted. I suppose the T05H is a copy of National rubber line - not sure because I still haven't tried it. One thing I dislike about Tenergy is they break pretty easy - oh and pricey too.



-------------
Everybody boosts


Posted By: DonnOlsen
Date Posted: 09/21/2018 at 8:29am
[It is meant to be boosted - just like the Hurricane for China National Team members. I've tried both Hurricane for CNT and Tenergy for National players - it's hard because it is not boosted (if you ask how - here's how: I went to China to visit my coach and he took me to meet some China Team members and they let me try their rubbers). 

Those Tenergy we buy from Butterfly are already factory-boosted. I suppose the T05H is a copy of National rubber line - not sure because I still haven't tried it. One thing I dislike about Tenergy is they break pretty easy - oh and pricey too.]

Very good.  Thanks for the contribution.  There are many interesting implications and speculations derived from your fine post.

[It is meant to be boosted - just like the Hurricane for China National Team members.]

Is this the first "meant to be boosted" rubber from Butterfly?

We may be confident that "boosting" will not be explicitly stated by Butterfly in the official directions for handling the rubber.

Is there an implication that Butterfly is targeting two types of players for the customer base: 1) Those that like the hard feeling and performance qualities of the rubber out of the package, and 2) The booster crowd?

[I've tried both Hurricane for CNT and Tenergy for National players - it's hard because it is not boosted]

What is the thought captured here: Does that the Chinese National Team boost the non-boosted Tenergy, or do they use the boosted Tenergy right out of the package?

[I suppose the T05H is a copy of National rubber line]

Supposed here is that the Chinese National Team Tenergy 05 uses a different Tenergy sponge than the commercially available Tenergy 05.

From this information, we may conclude that Tenergy 05 Hard is the first opportunity for the general playing public to have access to the Chinese National Team Tenergy, paralleling the purported available National version of Hurricane.

[it's hard because it is not boosted]

Two manufacturing options seem possible here: 1) The Tenergy 05 Hard sponge is the same sponge as the Tenergy 05, just not boosted, and 2) The Tenergy 05 Hard sponge is a materially-distinct sponge from the Tenergy 05 sponge.

[One thing I dislike about Tenergy is they break pretty easy]

When you use the term "break," are you referring to the great tendency of Tenergy to "chip off" from the edges, or are you referring to the decline in performance of the rubber over time?

Thanks again.


-------------
Advances in a field are best achieved by constructs that fully reflect the phenomena of interest and are rooted in a theory that specifies their determinants, mediating processes, and its effects.


Posted By: jpenmaster
Date Posted: 09/21/2018 at 9:27am
It's all speculation till we actually get to play with it. We all know there has been a pro player version for a while and I'm not sure T05 Hard will be a copy of that. Since the top sheet and overall thickness are the only things regulated by ITTF one could speculate there are many different pro player sponge hardness available to professionals.

-------------
Kenta ALC T05H/T05


Posted By: chroot
Date Posted: 09/21/2018 at 9:34am
Is the price for this rubber set? Will give it a try if it’s not crazily pricey. Saw some “pro” version of T05 listed for sale before. Man, it’s not cheap, even comparing with DHS National H3.

-------------
BTY Viscaria 90g
DHS Hurricane 3 NEO, 39/2.1
BTY Tenergy 05 1.9

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=62263" rel="nofollow - My Feedbacks


Posted By: tom
Date Posted: 09/21/2018 at 9:40am
"[I've tried both Hurricane for CNT and Tenergy for National players - it's hard because it is not boosted]

What is the thought captured here: Does that the Chinese National Team boost the non-boosted Tenergy, or do they use the boosted Tenergy right out of the package?"

yes, the original post is unclear and needs to be clarified


Posted By: taczkid
Date Posted: 09/21/2018 at 9:49am
I noticed past 6month to a year that a lot of Butterfly PROS (Boll, Pitch, Freitas, etc) started playing faster more aggressive with more power... Has anyone noticed that? I am wondering if this is due to 05 HARD? I assume so, as timo boll topspins are much harder in 2018 then years back...
I am very excited to try this rubber, Harder tenergy should definitely help with serve receives and short play, (regular 05) often was actint to springy in short gave as the sponge reacted on every shot, with harder shots I think T05 Hard will definitely be interesting rubber that a lot of us will try and perhaps switch to


Posted By: juanma4080
Date Posted: 09/21/2018 at 10:35am
It’s 43 degrees? I guess?


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 09/21/2018 at 10:52am
I don't think Tenergy is factory boosted, at least not in the way that stuff like MX-P is.  There is no booster smell right out of the package, and the sponge properties are a lot more stable over time (meaning nothing they added to the sponge is slowly evaporating).  Now there is absolutely a type of "speed glue effect*" (for lack of a better word) as a result of the structure of the Tenergy sponge and the pores within it.  Some people think Tenergy gets better if you boost it, but to me that just makes it feel mushy.  A question of taste and I know some 2500 players who agree. 

As for advantages of harder sponge, count me in among those who found that a harder sponge can help a lot with short game, heavy push, and short stroke counters off of heavy topspin.  What that review said seemed perfectly plausible to me.  But that makes it harder to use in other parts of the game, so a trade-off.  I stopped using Tenergy 05 a couple of years ago in favor of something altogether different.  So now I might prefer a harder T05, or maybe not.  No way to know without trying it.

So some people who currently use regular T05 will like this and some won't.  Even among really good players, preferences will vary.

*Speed glue was banned in 2008 and so it has been ten years, which means a good likelihood that a significant number of posters here never played with speed glue.  Which for reasons unrelated to table tennis depresses me.


Posted By: mykonos96
Date Posted: 09/21/2018 at 10:59am
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

[It is meant to be boosted - just like the Hurricane for China National Team members. I've tried both Hurricane for CNT and Tenergy for National players - it's hard because it is not boosted (if you ask how - here's how: I went to China to visit my coach and he took me to meet some China Team members and they let me try their rubbers). 

<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Those Tenergy we buy from Butterfly are already factory-boosted. I suppose the T05H is a copy of National rubber line - not sure because I still haven't tried it. One thing I dislike about Tenergy is they break pretty easy - oh and pricey too.]</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Very good.  Thanks for the contribution.  There are many interesting implications and speculations derived from your fine post.</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
[It is meant to be boosted - just like the Hurricane for China National Team members.]
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Is this the first "meant to be boosted" rubber from Butterfly?</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">We may be confident that "boosting" will not be explicitly stated by Butterfly in the official directions for handling the rubber.</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Is there an implication that Butterfly is targeting two types of players for the customer base: 1) Those that like the hard feeling and performance qualities of the rubber out of the package, and 2) The booster crowd?</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">[</span>I've tried both Hurricane for CNT and Tenergy for National players - it's hard because it is not boosted]

[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]What is the thought captured here: Does that the Chinese National Team boost the non-boosted Tenergy, or do they use the boosted Tenergy right out of the package?</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]
</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"][</span][/COLOR]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">I suppose the T05H is a copy of National rubber line]</span>
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]
</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]Supposed here is that the Chinese National Team Tenergy 05 uses a different Tenergy sponge than the commercially available Tenergy 05.</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]
</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]From this information, we may conclude that Tenergy 05 Hard is the first opportunity for the general playing public to have access to the Chinese National Team Tenergy, paralleling the purported available National version of Hurricane.</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]
</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"][</span][/COLOR]it's hard because it is not boosted]

[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]Two manufacturing options seem possible here: 1) The Tenergy 05 Hard sponge is the same sponge as the Tenergy 05, just not boosted, and 2) The Tenergy 05 Hard sponge is a materially-distinct sponge from the Tenergy 05 sponge.</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]
</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"][</span][/COLOR]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">One thing I dislike about Tenergy is they break pretty easy]</span>
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]
</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]When you use the term "break," are you referring to the great tendency of Tenergy to "chip off" from the edges, or are you referring to the decline in performance of the rubber over time?</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]
</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]Thanks again.</span][/COLOR]


Tenergy off the shelf is boosted you cant feel the smell


Posted By: DonnOlsen
Date Posted: 09/21/2018 at 11:54am
Hi,

Thanks for the reply.

[What that review said seemed perfectly plausible to me.]

The final point of the review list is:  
  • maximum amount of spin in general

Given the premise of the harder sponge, so much harder that it is entitled in the rubber, do you think this last point is likely?

Thanks


-------------
Advances in a field are best achieved by constructs that fully reflect the phenomena of interest and are rooted in a theory that specifies their determinants, mediating processes, and its effects.


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 09/21/2018 at 12:02pm
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

[It is meant to be boosted - just like the Hurricane for China National Team members. I've tried both Hurricane for CNT and Tenergy for National players - it's hard because it is not boosted (if you ask how - here's how: I went to China to visit my coach and he took me to meet some China Team members and they let me try their rubbers). 

<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Those Tenergy we buy from Butterfly are already factory-boosted. I suppose the T05H is a copy of National rubber line - not sure because I still haven't tried it. One thing I dislike about Tenergy is they break pretty easy - oh and pricey too.]</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Very good.  Thanks for the contribution.  There are many interesting implications and speculations derived from your fine post.</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
[It is meant to be boosted - just like the Hurricane for China National Team members.]
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Is this the first "meant to be boosted" rubber from Butterfly?</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">We may be confident that "boosting" will not be explicitly stated by Butterfly in the official directions for handling the rubber.</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Is there an implication that Butterfly is targeting two types of players for the customer base: 1) Those that like the hard feeling and performance qualities of the rubber out of the package, and 2) The booster crowd?</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">[</span>I've tried both Hurricane for CNT and Tenergy for National players - it's hard because it is not boosted]

[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]What is the thought captured here: Does that the Chinese National Team boost the non-boosted Tenergy, or do they use the boosted Tenergy right out of the package?</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]
</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"][</span][/COLOR]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">I suppose the T05H is a copy of National rubber line]</span>
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]
</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]Supposed here is that the Chinese National Team Tenergy 05 uses a different Tenergy sponge than the commercially available Tenergy 05.</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]
</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]From this information, we may conclude that Tenergy 05 Hard is the first opportunity for the general playing public to have access to the Chinese National Team Tenergy, paralleling the purported available National version of Hurricane.</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]
</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"][</span][/COLOR]it's hard because it is not boosted]

[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]Two manufacturing options seem possible here: 1) The Tenergy 05 Hard sponge is the same sponge as the Tenergy 05, just not boosted, and 2) The Tenergy 05 Hard sponge is a materially-distinct sponge from the Tenergy 05 sponge.</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]
</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"][</span][/COLOR]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">One thing I dislike about Tenergy is they break pretty easy]</span>
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]
</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]When you use the term "break," are you referring to the great tendency of Tenergy to "chip off" from the edges, or are you referring to the decline in performance of the rubber over time?</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]
</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]Thanks again.</span][/COLOR]


Tenergy off the shelf is boosted you cant feel the smell




And your evidence for this is......... ????

Do you have some inside technical information or are you just using The Force?


Posted By: jpenmaster
Date Posted: 09/21/2018 at 1:21pm
Pushed back till Nov 1st release in North America now

-------------
Kenta ALC T05H/T05


Posted By: mykonos96
Date Posted: 09/21/2018 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

[It is meant to be boosted - just like the Hurricane for China National Team members. I've tried both Hurricane for CNT and Tenergy for National players - it's hard because it is not boosted (if you ask how - here's how: I went to China to visit my coach and he took me to meet some China Team members and they let me try their rubbers). 

<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Those Tenergy we buy from Butterfly are already factory-boosted. I suppose the T05H is a copy of National rubber line - not sure because I still haven't tried it. One thing I dislike about Tenergy is they break pretty easy - oh and pricey too.]</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"><font #0000cc""="" color="">Very good.  Thanks for the contribution.  There are many interesting implications and speculations derived from your fine post.</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"><font #0000cc""="" color="">
</span>
[It is meant to be boosted - just like the Hurricane for China National Team members.]
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"><font #0000cc""="" color="">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"><font #0000cc""="" color="">Is this the first "meant to be boosted" rubber from Butterfly?</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"><font #0000cc""="" color="">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"><font #0000cc""="" color="">We may be confident that "boosting" will not be explicitly stated by Butterfly in the official directions for handling the rubber.</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"><font #0000cc""="" color="">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"><font #0000cc""="" color="">Is there an implication that Butterfly is targeting two types of players for the customer base: 1) Those that like the hard feeling and performance qualities of the rubber out of the package, and 2) The booster crowd?</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"><font #0000cc""="" color="">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"><font #0000cc""="" color="">[</span>I've tried both Hurricane for CNT and Tenergy for National players - it's hard because it is not boosted]

[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]What is the thought captured here: Does that the Chinese National Team boost the non-boosted Tenergy, or do they use the boosted Tenergy right out of the package?</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]
</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"][</span][/COLOR]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">I suppose the T05H is a copy of National rubber line]</span>
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]
</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]Supposed here is that the Chinese National Team Tenergy 05 uses a different Tenergy sponge than the commercially available Tenergy 05.</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]
</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]From this information, we may conclude that Tenergy 05 Hard is the first opportunity for the general playing public to have access to the Chinese National Team Tenergy, paralleling the purported available National version of Hurricane.</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]
</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"][</span][/COLOR]it's hard because it is not boosted]

[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]Two manufacturing options seem possible here: 1) The Tenergy 05 Hard sponge is the same sponge as the Tenergy 05, just not boosted, and 2) The Tenergy 05 Hard sponge is a materially-distinct sponge from the Tenergy 05 sponge.</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]
</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"][</span][/COLOR]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">One thing I dislike about Tenergy is they break pretty easy]</span>
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]
</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]When you use the term "break," are you referring to the great tendency of Tenergy to "chip off" from the edges, or are you referring to the decline in performance of the rubber over time?</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]
</span][/COLOR]
[COLOR="#0000cc"]<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"]Thanks again.</span][/COLOR]


Tenergy off the shelf is boosted you cant feel the smell




And your evidence for this is......... ????

Do you have some inside technical information or are you just using The Force?



I cant spend money to make a test to make you believe

Do you think a rubber would bounce without booster? Or you believe in the magical air bubbles inside tenergy sponge?. There are boosters for donic bty nittaku. Its up to you to believe ,any large tt dealer know that every brand has its own developed booster


Posted By: DonnOlsen
Date Posted: 09/21/2018 at 9:53pm
Hi,

Very good observations in this thread.
 
[(jpenmaster) We all know there has been a pro player version for a while and I'm not sure T05 Hard will be a copy of that.]

[(chroot)  Saw some “pro” version of T05 listed for sale before.] 

Few are more behind the curve than I: I, for one, did not know there was a commercially available "pro player version" for sale.

I do know that in a number of interviews, Timo Boll never tires of repeating the comment about the unfair advantage of the Chinese because you cannot buy the rubber they use; it is not available.  It is clear he implies the rubber he uses is available to buy.

Thanks


-------------
Advances in a field are best achieved by constructs that fully reflect the phenomena of interest and are rooted in a theory that specifies their determinants, mediating processes, and its effects.


Posted By: mykonos96
Date Posted: 09/21/2018 at 10:26pm
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Hi,

Very good observations in this thread.
 
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">[(jpenmaster) We all know there has been a pro player version for a while and I'm not sure T05 Hard will be a copy of that.]</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">[(chroot) </span><span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"> </span><span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Saw some “pro” version of T05 listed for sale before.]</span><span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;"> </span>

Few are more behind the curve than I: I, for one, did not know there was a commercially available "pro player version" for sale.

I do know that in a number of interviews, Timo Boll never tires of repeating the comment about the unfair advantage of the Chinese because you cannot buy the rubber they use; it is not available.  It is clear he implies the rubber he uses is available to buy.

Thanks



Timo s rubbers are not available for amateurs


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 09/23/2018 at 12:37am
I know for a fact that the structure of the pores is one of the key factors. But I'm not going to argue this point in detail. Tenergy has many fundamental differences from other modern rubbers. Actually I think it was better when it first came out. I personallthink it was harder then.


Posted By: benfb
Date Posted: 09/23/2018 at 1:23am
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

 
I cant spend money to make a test to make you believe

Do you think a rubber would bounce without booster? Or you believe in the magical air bubbles inside tenergy sponge?. There are boosters for donic bty nittaku. Its up to you to believe ,any large tt dealer know that every brand has its own developed booster

Like all great conspiracy theories, who needs to both with facts or proof?  The claim that Tenergy comes from the factory with boosting ranks right up there with claim that 9/11 was arranged by our own government and that the Moon landing never happened.


Posted By: benfb
Date Posted: 09/23/2018 at 1:30am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I know for a fact that the structure of the pores is one of the key factors. But I'm not going to argue this point in detail. Tenergy has many fundamental differences from other modern rubbers. Actually I think it was better when it first came out. I personallthink it was harder then.
From what I've read and what I've been told, pros were always given harder versions of Tenergy.  It's not "Tenergy Pro" like some people claim.  Every batch of rubber has different hardness between the center and the ends.  It's like saying that some cuts of beef produce superior (and more expensive) steaks.  I've never seen any place that actually sold "pro Tenergy", but I could imagine a professional giving away some of his sheets, which would be harder.

I don't think the new Tenergy Hard is the same thing.  There was a limited amount of harder rubber available in the current "regular" Tenergy.  My guess is that they have a new, more dense version of the Tenergy sponge.  Ironically, that probably means there will be a pro version of Tenergy Hard, too.Wink

I would dearly love to see a hands-on review of the stuff, but I guess we'll have to wait until November.


Posted By: slevin
Date Posted: 09/23/2018 at 1:49am
Not to be a killjoy but, I would not be surprised if it is as heavy as 58g cut.



-------------
Trade feedback:
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787" rel="nofollow - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787


Posted By: mykonos96
Date Posted: 09/23/2018 at 2:46am
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

 
I cant spend money to make a test to make you believe

Do you think a rubber would bounce without booster? Or you believe in the magical air bubbles inside tenergy sponge?. There are boosters for donic bty nittaku. Its up to you to believe ,any large tt dealer know that every brand has its own developed booster


Like all great conspiracy theories, who needs to both with facts or proof?  The claim that Tenergy comes from the factory with boosting ranks right up there with claim that 9/11 was arranged by our own government and that the Moon landing never happened.



Its easy if you re eager to spend 400$ on a lab test. Feel the oily sponge smell a rakza9 straight from the package and you will smell dandoy TRF . 2nd time tell me why tenergy would bounce like other factory boosted rubbers like rakza if its not boosted?


Posted By: benfb
Date Posted: 09/23/2018 at 2:54am
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

 
I cant spend money to make a test to make you believe

Do you think a rubber would bounce without booster? Or you believe in the magical air bubbles inside tenergy sponge?. There are boosters for donic bty nittaku. Its up to you to believe ,any large tt dealer know that every brand has its own developed booster


Like all great conspiracy theories, who needs to both with facts or proof?  The claim that Tenergy comes from the factory with boosting ranks right up there with claim that 9/11 was arranged by our own government and that the Moon landing never happened.



Its easy if you re eager to spend 400$ on a lab test. Feel the oily sponge smell a rakza9 straight from the package and you will smell dandoy TRF . 2nd time tell me why tenergy would bounce like other factory boosted rubbers like rakza if its not boosted?
But there is no smell or oily feeling with Tenergy; no sign of any additive.

Simply because adding a booster is one way to improve rubber performance doesn't mean it's the only way.  All rubbers depend a lot upon the chemical mix of compounds used both for top sheet and sponge (separately), plus the sponge can vary a lot depending upon pores and density.  Tenergy acts the way it does because that is the way those composite parts (sponge and topsheet) are designed to work.  It doesn't need booster to perform.

An analogy to your argument would be if you claimed that all athletes must use performance-enhancing drugs to play well simply because some athletes require them to be great (I'm not thinking table tennis in this analogy; more like bike racing or perhaps baseball).  It's not real logic.


Posted By: Leftstudio
Date Posted: 09/23/2018 at 3:36am
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

[It is meant to be boosted - just like the Hurricane for China National Team members. I've tried both Hurricane for CNT and Tenergy for National players - it's hard because it is not boosted (if you ask how - here's how: I went to China to visit my coach and he took me to meet some China Team members and they let me try their rubbers). 

Those Tenergy we buy from Butterfly are already factory-boosted. I suppose the T05H is a copy of National rubber line - not sure because I still haven't tried it. One thing I dislike about Tenergy is they break pretty easy - oh and pricey too.]

Very good.  Thanks for the contribution.  There are many interesting implications and speculations derived from your fine post.

[It is meant to be boosted - just like the Hurricane for China National Team members.]


I think every rubber is already factory-boosted (now please don't get into the illegal boosting thing because it is a matter of personal opinion). 
[I've tried both Hurricane for CNT and Tenergy for National players - it's hard because it is not boosted]

What is the thought captured here: Does that the Chinese National Team boost the non-boosted Tenergy, or do they use the boosted Tenergy right out of the package?

The National players that I've met in China boost their rubbers according to their style - but their Tenergy sponges are much more dense than the regular Tenergy. Also they use a non label booster that I did not get a chance to look inside the bottle. 
[I suppose the T05H is a copy of National rubber line]

Supposed here is that the Chinese National Team Tenergy 05 uses a different Tenergy sponge than the commercially available Tenergy 05.

From this information, we may conclude that Tenergy 05 Hard is the first opportunity for the general playing public to have access to the Chinese National Team Tenergy, paralleling the purported available National version of Hurricane.

I don't think so - the sponsored product line is always a different item - I highly doubt that it will be publicly distributed. On a side note: Ding Ning's Hurricane plays like a Tenergy sponge with H3 topsheet. It truly is amazing - really hard to miss the table.

[it's hard because it is not boosted]

Two manufacturing options seem possible here: 1) The Tenergy 05 Hard sponge is the same sponge as the Tenergy 05, just not boosted, and 2) The Tenergy 05 Hard sponge is a materially-distinct sponge from the Tenergy 05 sponge.

Then again - we have no clue until somebody buys and tries the T05H.
[One thing I dislike about Tenergy is they break pretty easy]

When you use the term "break," are you referring to the great tendency of Tenergy to "chip off" from the edges, or are you referring to the decline in performance of the rubber over time?

I meant "chip off".
Thanks again.

After visiting the training facility in China for National Team, all I see is hard work. The players didn't really talk about equipments. The amount of workload that those players do is incredible - no wonder why they are on top of the world. Equipments are important but moreover is the willing to spend hours and hours working. It is the army over there - the atmosphere is almost like a military camp.

Can I give my 2cents here? 
If I have the blade of MaLong can I hit the ball like him?
If we have the blade of MaLong can we hit the ball like him?


-------------
Everybody boosts


Posted By: DonnOlsen
Date Posted: 09/23/2018 at 9:29am
Hi,

This thread confirms unequivocally just how impressive in expertise and thought our sport's serious students are.

A few comments on some picked off statements in the thread.

[I noticed past 6month to a year that a lot of Butterfly PROS (Boll, Pitch, Freitas, etc) started playing faster more aggressive with more power... Has anyone noticed that? I am wondering if this is due to 05 HARD? I assume so, as timo boll topspins are much harder in 2018 then years back...]

I have noticed the same thing, strikingly so.  I was watching two Top 30 in the world players in a match.  Both are great, however what was really noteworthy was the performance of their rackets (Cornilleau and Butterfly).  On their power shots, the balls were just rocketing out with extreme power of speed and spin.  It was very distinctive.

Also, I've notice Samsonov will occasionally execute offensive shots at a power level he never had before.

[Pushed back till Nov 1st release in North America now]

Knowing something about how the world works, we should discover information out of Europe and Asia sooner than this.

[There are boosters for donic bty nittaku. Its up to you to believe ,any large tt dealer know that every brand has its own developed booster]

Some treacherous water here.  [There are boosters for donic bty nittaku] Accepted as stated, the boosters I'm familiar with claim effectiveness with all the sponges.  In the marketplace, there are not exclusive distinctions made for the booster companies' targeted sponges.  [any large tt dealer know that every brand has its own developed booster It may be close to the case that this is true for the major manufacturers of rubber, however those boosters are not commercially available.

[Tenergy has many fundamental differences from other modern rubbers. Actually I think it was better when it first came out. I personallthink it was harder then.]

This is an uncomfortable statement.  It means that without public declaration, Butterfly altered the specification of Tenergy to the extent that the playing characteristics' variation may be readily detected by a typical player.

[Ironically, that probably means there will be a pro version of Tenergy Hard, too.]  So, do you enjoy torturing the cognoscenti?

[Not to be a killjoy but, I would not be surprised if it is as heavy as 58g cut.]

I'm sorry to report, but you failed: You are a killjoy.

Thanks


-------------
Advances in a field are best achieved by constructs that fully reflect the phenomena of interest and are rooted in a theory that specifies their determinants, mediating processes, and its effects.


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 09/23/2018 at 10:01am
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

 
I cant spend money to make a test to make you believe

Do you think a rubber would bounce without booster? Or you believe in the magical air bubbles inside tenergy sponge?. There are boosters for donic bty nittaku. Its up to you to believe ,any large tt dealer know that every brand has its own developed booster


Like all great conspiracy theories, who needs to both with facts or proof?  The claim that Tenergy comes from the factory with boosting ranks right up there with claim that 9/11 was arranged by our own government and that the Moon landing never happened.



Its easy if you re eager to spend 400$ on a lab test. Feel the oily sponge smell a rakza9 straight from the package and you will smell dandoy TRF . 2nd time tell me why tenergy would bounce like other factory boosted rubbers like rakza if its not boosted?


This should be funny but what exactly would you test for? And where? Be specific.


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 09/23/2018 at 10:05am
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

 
I cant spend money to make a test to make you believe

Do you think a rubber would bounce without booster? Or you believe in the magical air bubbles inside tenergy sponge?. There are boosters for donic bty nittaku. Its up to you to believe ,any large tt dealer know that every brand has its own developed booster


Like all great conspiracy theories, who needs to both with facts or proof?  The claim that Tenergy comes from the factory with boosting ranks right up there with claim that 9/11 was arranged by our own government and that the Moon landing never happened.


And claims that contradict the theory are dismissed as coming from idiots who are not privy to secret inside information or sometimes with the accusation that it is part of the conspiracy. Ben, you MUST BE ONE OF THEM! 😦


Posted By: kevo
Date Posted: 09/23/2018 at 3:10pm
Originally posted by taczkid taczkid wrote:

I noticed past 6month to a year that a lot of Butterfly PROS (Boll, Pitch, Freitas, etc) started playing faster more aggressive with more power... Has anyone noticed that? I am wondering if this is due to 05 HARD? I assume so, as timo boll topspins are much harder in 2018 then years back...
I am very excited to try this rubber, Harder tenergy should definitely help with serve receives and short play, (regular 05) often was actint to springy in short gave as the sponge reacted on every shot, with harder shots I think T05 Hard will definitely be interesting rubber that a lot of us will try and perhaps switch to

Interesting you should say this as today, while watching the Euro Champs final between Timo and Ionescu, I noticed that Timo was twiddling his bat around to the BH (red) rubber for smashes, much like the CNT guys do. I had always assumed (and had read) that Timo used 05 on both sides, unboosted (or factory boosted like all the rest of us), and so wondered how/why his BH rubber was softer and therefore better for controlling smashes of high lobs. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller...  (Timo was brilliant btw, and I couldn't see anything different in his play that might indicate a rubber change but I wasn't looking for it then either...)


Posted By: kevo
Date Posted: 09/23/2018 at 3:31pm
Ok, just read over at TTDaily that 'as of Sept. 1, 2018', Boll uses O5 Hard on FH and 05 of BH. Question answered. I should be a PI... 


Posted By: DonnOlsen
Date Posted: 09/23/2018 at 8:47pm
[kevo:Ok, just read over at TTDaily that 'as of Sept. 1, 2018', Boll uses O5 Hard on FH and 05 of BH. Question answered. I should be a PI... ]

Ah ha!  We are making progress!

Very good.


-------------
Advances in a field are best achieved by constructs that fully reflect the phenomena of interest and are rooted in a theory that specifies their determinants, mediating processes, and its effects.


Posted By: mykonos96
Date Posted: 09/23/2018 at 11:10pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

 
I cant spend money to make a test to make you believe

Do you think a rubber would bounce without booster? Or you believe in the magical air bubbles inside tenergy sponge?. There are boosters for donic bty nittaku. Its up to you to believe ,any large tt dealer know that every brand has its own developed booster


Like all great conspiracy theories, who needs to both with facts or proof?  The claim that Tenergy comes from the factory with boosting ranks right up there with claim that 9/11 was arranged by our own government and that the Moon landing never happened.



Its easy if you re eager to spend 400$ on a lab test. Feel the oily sponge smell a rakza9 straight from the package and you will smell dandoy TRF . 2nd time tell me why tenergy would bounce like other factory boosted rubbers like rakza if its not boosted?


This should be funny but what exactly would you test for? And where? Be specific.


Something like a 16+ carbon hydrocarbon molecule oil (speeglue component is hexane or heptane a   larger molecule that must be oily and do the same trick)that shouldnt be in the sponge I bet the guy from australia who make his own booster must know this is roughly the component of a booster

There is a simple way to test that booster is in the tenergy sponge but people dont take seriously what I wrote and


Posted By: haggisv
Date Posted: 09/23/2018 at 11:21pm
Originally posted by kevo kevo wrote:

'as of Sept. 1, 2018', Boll uses O5 Hard on FH and 05 of BH.

Sounds like the Marketing Machine in full motion...just as the new rubber is about to be released to the public, sponsored players are changing to it. Big smile That doesn't mean it's not true of course.


-------------
Smart; VS>401, Dtecs OX
http://tabletennisshop.com.au/index.php?main_page=page&id=42" rel="nofollow - Tenergy Alternatives | http://tabletennis-reviews.com" rel="nofollow - My TT Articles


Posted By: chop4ever
Date Posted: 09/23/2018 at 11:35pm
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

 
I cant spend money to make a test to make you believe

Do you think a rubber would bounce without booster? Or you believe in the magical air bubbles inside tenergy sponge?. There are boosters for donic bty nittaku. Its up to you to believe ,any large tt dealer know that every brand has its own developed booster


Like all great conspiracy theories, who needs to both with facts or proof?  The claim that Tenergy comes from the factory with boosting ranks right up there with claim that 9/11 was arranged by our own government and that the Moon landing never happened.



Its easy if you re eager to spend 400$ on a lab test. Feel the oily sponge smell a rakza9 straight from the package and you will smell dandoy TRF . 2nd time tell me why tenergy would bounce like other factory boosted rubbers like rakza if its not boosted?


This should be funny but what exactly would you test for? And where? Be specific.


Something like a 16+ carbon hydrocarbon molecule oil (speeglue component is hexane or heptane a   larger molecule that must be oily and do the same trick)that shouldnt be in the sponge I bet the guy from australia who make his own booster must know this is roughly the component of a booster

There is a simple way to test that booster is in the tenergy sponge but people dont take seriously what I wrote and
Thanks to mention me here!
The secrete of Tenergy is not only in sponge, but the topsheet, which not many rubber manufacturer has paid the attention to.



-------------
Equipment Alchemist


Posted By: taczkid
Date Posted: 09/24/2018 at 8:37am
Not sure why Butterfly is being ..... but they just changed the release date to November 1!!!
Seriously they need to get their S..t straight, the release new Rubber and they cant even get their date correct on the first try? Now this is a joke. I just feel sorry for those who pre-ordered being excited to try the rubber next week, but thanks to ur favorite brand Butterfly they found yet another way (besides expensive prices) to get a lot of players upset Great job Butterfly. Next time you want to release something in Novemeber just say it on the first ADD (to be released in November, don't lie to customer or post false advertisement)!

Other brands vs Butterfly

Other: New rubber ____ is coming out on December 1st with a price of 59.99$, Butterfly-New Tenerfy 05 PRO is coming out on December 1st with a price tag of 79.99.... after one week, the actual available date will be March 1st 2019 and we misprinted the price of 79.99 the actual price is 179.99 $<-- Enjoy it customers.


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: 09/24/2018 at 12:04pm
Seriously, you are all up in arms because the pushed the official release date out by a month?

So, you will get your sheets a month later.  How is that going to meaningfully effect your life?  As far as the price goes, prior to this I had to pay $100 per sheet to get these bootlegged out of some pro's bag.  $80 that Butterfly Online wants is a bargain.  I pre-ordered two sheets and if it is similar to the ones I have been playing with on the FH, I'll have it on both sides.

At my current practice rate, these will last me at least 3-4 months.  Maybe more.  MX-S was lasting about 2-3 months.  Big Dipper was nice, but lasted about 6 weeks.  Various DHS rubbers lasted anywhere between two weeks and 8 weeks, but had to be tuned every two weeks, which I dislike immensely.

If I spend $160 every four months on two T05Hs and that gets rid of the hassle involved in tuning them, it is totally worth it.  It is probably the same amount of money I spend on gas driving two and from the club for practicing.

ILya


-------------
BTY Mazunov ST
Dignics 05


Posted By: benfb
Date Posted: 09/24/2018 at 12:32pm
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Seriously, you are all up in arms because the pushed the official release date out by a month?
+100

I don't understand why people online have to be so whiny.  Delays in release dates are very, very common.  It can relate to last minute manufacturing tweaks, or changes in the shipping route (since they are being shipped via ship), or plans to tie in with a particular marketing promotion that isn't ready yet.  This happens across all industries and products and I guarantee it's happening to you all the time in your non-table tennis life.  So why dump on Butterfly for this tiny issue?


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 09/24/2018 at 1:37pm
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:



Something like a 16+ carbon hydrocarbon molecule oil (speeglue component is hexane or heptane a   larger molecule that must be oily and do the same trick)that shouldnt be in the sponge I bet the guy from australia who make his own booster must know this is roughly the component of a booster

There is a simple way to test that booster is in the tenergy sponge but people dont take seriously what I wrote and


If you wanted to make sure that people would not take you seriously this post was a great way to do it.


Posted By: pgpg
Date Posted: 09/24/2018 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Seriously, you are all up in arms because the pushed the official release date out by a month?
+100

I don't understand why people online have to be so whiny.  Delays in release dates are very, very common.  It can relate to last minute manufacturing tweaks, or changes in the shipping route (since they are being shipped via ship), or plans to tie in with a particular marketing promotion that isn't ready yet.  This happens across all industries and products and I guarantee it's happening to you all the time in your non-table tennis life.  So why dump on Butterfly for this tiny issue?

I was going to write something similar in response to the post by 'taczkid', but then I figured there is a decent chance that it was posted by a kid indeed, which might explain rather exaggerated reaction to delayed launch date of TT rubber. Kids and their obsession with instant gratification these days! Now, get off my lawn. Wink


-------------
USATT: ~1870
Donic Defplay - AK47 blue - Dtecs OX


Posted By: tom
Date Posted: 09/24/2018 at 3:07pm
"As far as the price goes, prior to this I had to pay $100 per sheet to get these bootlegged out of some pro's bag."

Koshkin, as the release date is pushed back and therefore some will the reviews, do you care to list some differences between your $100 sheets and the regular 05?  


Posted By: mykonos96
Date Posted: 09/24/2018 at 3:14pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:



Something like a 16+ carbon hydrocarbon molecule oil (speeglue component is hexane or heptane a   larger molecule that must be oily and do the same trick)that shouldnt be in the sponge I bet the guy from australia who make his own booster must know this is roughly the component of a booster

There is a simple way to test that booster is in the tenergy sponge but people dont take seriously what I wrote and


If you wanted to make sure that people would not take you seriously this post was a great way to do it.



This is not supreme court for giving proof . I would try to post more about it but I dont feel like there s a good reason


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: 09/24/2018 at 3:49pm
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

"As far as the price goes, prior to this I had to pay $100 per sheet to get these bootlegged out of some pro's bag."

Koshkin, as the release date is pushed back and therefore some will the reviews, do you care to list some differences between your $100 sheets and the regular 05?  

Honestly, it is pretty close to what T05 was when it first came out.  The first T05 I saw had a distinctly harder feel, but that all changed about 6 months into it.  

The harder sponge sheet I am using now on the FH seems to have the same exact topsheet as a regular T05, but the sponge is notably harder.  If regular T05 is 36deg on Butterfly's scale, the one I am using is probably in the 40-42deg range.  The sponge is still fairly springy, so it is easy to make spin and it is pretty fast.  It is a little less springy on soft contact, so pushing is easier. Spin on loops of all sorts is excellent if you can brush the ball.  In that regard, it is a little more linear than regular T05, but not drastically different.  It works about the same for me on slow loops, but I have better feedback and control on big loops.

The biggest difference is with counterlooping and over the table active blocking.  My passive blocks stink and since I play with a soft blade, I just try to cover the ball a little, so I can re-direct it with a little spin.  The hard sponge gives me really good feedback for that shot.  Jut better feel.

With counterlooping, off the table, it is not drastically different from regular 05.  Over the table, it is more confidence inspiring for me.  It is really amazing in how it deals with incoming spin.  I can basically ignore what's on it and focus on getting proper contact.  It completely overpowers what is coming in and sends the ball back over the net low and super spinny with a correspondingly low bounce on the other side of the table.

Opening against underspin is generally similar to regular T05 as well.

Arguably the biggest difference is with serves.  I have a very hard time keeping the serve short or even half-long with regular T05.  With the hard sponge version, half-long serves that either barely clear the table or have a second bounce right on the white line are pretty controllable.

I do not have much to say about smashing, since I do not smash on the FH very much and when I do, I flip the racket to T25 I have on the BH.

I have only been able to get these in red, so I can not comment on how the black sheet behaves.

When I get the new T05 Hard, I will look at both colors (I pre-ordered two sheets) and will also try it on the BH, so I will have more to say about how it punches and loops over the table.

My game is generally very uncomplicated:  I have a good serve and a very heavy opener off of both sides.  My rallying skills are not great, so I strive to finish the point on the 4th or 5th ball. Either with a BH punch or FH powerloop.

On service returns, I drop or push the the FH.  
With the BH, I can do pretty much anything I want (drop, push, loop, chiquita, etc), so all the people I normally play with try to make sure I get to hit as few backhands as possible in a match.

ILya


-------------
BTY Mazunov ST
Dignics 05


Posted By: tom
Date Posted: 09/24/2018 at 3:59pm
great detailed review Koshkin,  I think the 05 hard will be interesting if it  plays like the sheets you have.


Posted By: taczkid
Date Posted: 09/24/2018 at 4:49pm
Sheets that Koshin has are fake, or better original sheets of T05 with some sort of booster that someone applied and is selling them PRO Tenergy or National Tenergy lol


Posted By: Mickael
Date Posted: 09/24/2018 at 5:00pm
Guys you are ignoring one major improvement! The durability :)
Imagine how much the sponge would last. T 05 lasted a long time now with T 05H it would take forever!

-------------
Butterfly Freitas Alc FL
Tenergy 05 Max FH
Xiom Omega 7 Euro Max BH


Posted By: taczkid
Date Posted: 09/24/2018 at 5:02pm
Someone commented that I am a kid - I love that comment
I really hate ppl like you- why because u have no interest in this post... rather you have just nothing to do than sit and read and post retarded comments totally not on the subject but its ok hope u get paid by butterfly
And just to answer why I get mad about release pushed a month away, is because a company like butterfly should have all their ends tied together before announcing anything. (shiping, tweaks etc).
Be late with flowers for your wife 1 month and you will understand, or be late on credit card payment a month....lol

Anyhow, going back to Tenergy rubbers... Cant wait to get my hands on this Hard version! Just wished Butterfly would make a totally new rubbers similar to High speed Bryce, rasanter etc with thin topsheet and larger sponge rather than just giving us harder sponge...
I'm sure there will be 64Hard, 80Hard & 25hard very soon...
Who knows maybe XtraHard will be in 2 years. Tenergy as claimed by butterfly was developed/in process for 10 years, so since it came out in 2008 I was thinking that 2018 will be the launch of a totally new rubber by butterfly... But instead it took them 10 years to develop harder sponge   


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: 09/24/2018 at 5:30pm
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

great detailed review Koshkin,  I think the 05 hard will be interesting if it  plays like the sheets you have.

I'll know in November when T05H finally shows up.

ILya


-------------
BTY Mazunov ST
Dignics 05


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: 09/24/2018 at 5:55pm
Originally posted by taczkid taczkid wrote:


And just to answer why I get mad about release pushed a month away, is because a company like butterfly should have all their ends tied together before announcing anything. (shiping, tweaks etc).
 

This is so spectacularly stupid, it is funny.

Have you ever worked for a company that makes physical products?  If the delay is only one month, they are way ahead of the curve.

ILya


-------------
BTY Mazunov ST
Dignics 05


Posted By: zeio
Date Posted: 09/25/2018 at 5:31am
The release date has always been November 1st. Butterfly Online screwed that up. Strictly speaking, they are not Butterfly. They are only the distributor for North America. The company behind it is Bowmar Sports.

Outside Japan, Butterfly only have offices in China, South Korea, Germany and Thailand.

-------------
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g


Posted By: taczkid
Date Posted: 10/23/2018 at 4:46pm
Looks like butterfly just changed their Release date/available date on their butterflyonline.com website yet again:


Posted By: SmackDAT
Date Posted: 10/23/2018 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by taczkid taczkid wrote:

Looks like butterfly just changed their Release date/available date on their butterflyonline.com website yet again:
Ouch...
Ahead of the curve, I think not. 
Only video games can be allowed delays, this is just a 2008 rubber with a harder sponge and the same imprint as Rozena/Bryce HS.


-------------
Viscaria FL
Tenergy 05
Tenergy 80
https://goo.gl/bFWoxW" rel="nofollow - https://goo.gl/bFWoxW


Posted By: purpletiesto
Date Posted: 10/23/2018 at 5:17pm
[/QUOTE]
Only video games can be allowed delays
[/QUOTE]

That hit where it hurts.


Posted By: benfb
Date Posted: 10/23/2018 at 7:50pm
That doesn't necessarily mean the official release date has changed. It could be due to a delay in the arrival of shipment.  That's pretty frequent of a problem for items arriving by container from another country (as opposed to just truck shipping within the US).  Of course, for those of us in the USA, that doesn't help -- we still aren't getting the rubber in November.


Posted By: benfb
Date Posted: 10/23/2018 at 7:58pm
Originally posted by taczkid taczkid wrote:

Someone commented that I am a kid - I love that comment
I really hate ppl like you- why because u have no interest in this post... rather you have just nothing to do than sit and read and post retarded comments totally not on the subject but its ok hope u get paid by butterfly
And just to answer why I get mad about release pushed a month away, is because a company like butterfly should have all their ends tied together before announcing anything. (shiping, tweaks etc).
Be late with flowers for your wife 1 month and you will understand, or be late on credit card payment a month....lol

I can understand why you don't like being called a kid, but you're not doing yourself any favors with a post like this: "hate people like you" and "retarded comments" aren't the kinds of things that gain respect.  One of the ways that people can seem like kids (regardless of whether they actually one) is emotional, angry responses rather than thought out answers.

And I 'm sure none of us are happy about the push back on availability, but it really is a normal part of business.  It is much more rare to see announcements exactly line up with reality.


Posted By: SmackDAT
Date Posted: 10/24/2018 at 5:53am
Originally posted by purpletiesto purpletiesto wrote:

[/QUOTE]
Only video games can be allowed delays
[/QUOTE]

That hit where it hurts.
[/QUOTE
Haha :D true though but hits hard


-------------
Viscaria FL
Tenergy 05
Tenergy 80
https://goo.gl/bFWoxW" rel="nofollow - https://goo.gl/bFWoxW


Posted By: taczkid
Date Posted: 10/24/2018 at 10:53am
O wow Platinum Members reply. How about you reply to the original post and if you have nothing else to say then just don't...


Posted By: patwhall
Date Posted: 10/24/2018 at 2:45pm
So sounds like Butterfly is trying to emulate the success of Chinese rubber, especially the DHS Hurricane 3.  So people used to call China copy cat who pumps out cheap low quality stuff, what would you call Butterfly in this case?  Copy cat that copies cheap copy cat (no pun intended).  Tongue

-------------
DHS W997, H3 BS, FX-P


Posted By: Nelt
Date Posted: 10/24/2018 at 3:11pm
T05hard is not emulation of H3/H3NEO and not the same like all new generation tensors (e.g. omega7asia, rhyzer) with hard sponge and soft topshit. It's has catapult, but you need to hit hard, very hard to get all potential of this rubber.


Posted By: Tinykin
Date Posted: 10/24/2018 at 3:46pm
I just noticed that T05 hard is listed on the teessport website.
http://www.teessport.com/rubbers-c6" rel="nofollow - http://www.teessport.com/rubbers-c6


-------------
>65yo, presently overweight rather than obese.

Currently testing; Darker Speed90 with T05H/Dignics05. Update; T05 on BH is impressive when all is right,but D05 wins more points

Delusion is an asset


Posted By: AndySmith
Date Posted: 10/24/2018 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by Tinykin Tinykin wrote:

I just noticed that T05 hard is listed on the teessport website.
http://www.teessport.com/rubbers-c6" rel="nofollow - http://www.teessport.com/rubbers-c6

Delivery expected w/c 12th November.  Hope you're all saving your pennies!


-------------
This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.


Posted By: NBSR
Date Posted: 10/26/2018 at 2:05pm
https://www.megaspin.net/store/default.asp?pid=b-tenergy-05-hard

Seems it's up for sale at Megaspin now.


Posted By: Fulanodetal
Date Posted: 10/26/2018 at 4:26pm
"$80 that Butterfly Online wants is a bargain. "

$80 for a sheet of rubber is not a bargain.

That's a ridiculous amount of money for a sheet of rubber. For that price that rubber better serve you breakfast in bed!

FdT


Posted By: Magic_M
Date Posted: 10/27/2018 at 6:48am
Just ordered a piece of T05 Hard (my curiosity was too big Wink). 
In red it is already available at my local store. Black will arrive next week.
Price here in Germany is 59,90€ (round about 69 USD) +shipping.


-------------
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=51774&title=feedback-magic-m" rel="nofollow - My Feedback


Posted By: jpenmaster
Date Posted: 10/27/2018 at 8:52am
I was tempted to order but passed. I don't boost and I believe T05 Hard is meant to be boosted even though Butterfly would never say that . The only real complaint I heard about T05 was that it got too soft when boosted.

-------------
Kenta ALC T05H/T05


Posted By: mischasln
Date Posted: 10/27/2018 at 6:09pm
Originally posted by Magic_M Magic_M wrote:

Just ordered a piece of T05 Hard (my curiosity was too big Wink). 
In red it is already available at my local store. Black will arrive next week.
Price here in Germany is 59,90€ (round about 69 USD) +shipping.

May I ask where did you buy it?


-------------
PenholdTV
https://goo.gl/5DFRVm" rel="nofollow - YouTube


Posted By: chop4ever
Date Posted: 10/28/2018 at 1:24am
Originally posted by jpenmaster jpenmaster wrote:

I was tempted to order but passed. I don't boost and I believe T05 Hard is meant to be boosted even though Butterfly would never say that . The only real complaint I heard about T05 was that it got too soft when boosted.

Go for thin booster such as Nittaku Axel or Stiga Extreme.
FTL doesn't mean booster
and booster doesn't mean Falco.


-------------
Equipment Alchemist


Posted By: Magic_M
Date Posted: 10/28/2018 at 3:10am
Originally posted by mischasln mischasln wrote:

Originally posted by Magic_M Magic_M wrote:

Just ordered a piece of T05 Hard (my curiosity was too big Wink). 
In red it is already available at my local store. Black will arrive next week.
Price here in Germany is 59,90€ (round about 69 USD) +shipping.
May I ask where did you buy it?
I bought it here:  http://rmk-sport-tt.de" rel="nofollow - http://rmk-sport-tt.de


-------------
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=51774&title=feedback-magic-m" rel="nofollow - My Feedback


Posted By: jaja31
Date Posted: 10/30/2018 at 2:54am
I will test T05 hard Thursday and make a report. Actually, it costs about 8000Yens, that is far less than 100$. I mounted this T05 hard on Timo Boll CAF. For BH, I glue Tibhar MXP. 

-------------
Innerforce ZLC / T05 2.0 (FH) / R42 2.0 (BH)


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: 10/31/2018 at 4:54pm
I just got an e-mail from ButterflyOnline that there is a package coming my way.  I assume that is the two sheets for T05 Hard I pre-ordered, so I should have some impressions next week.

ILya


-------------
BTY Mazunov ST
Dignics 05


Posted By: Tinykin
Date Posted: 10/31/2018 at 5:56pm
Let's have  a race.
First with a review gets a thank youSmile
First with a video review gets a very big thank you.Thumbs Up


-------------
>65yo, presently overweight rather than obese.

Currently testing; Darker Speed90 with T05H/Dignics05. Update; T05 on BH is impressive when all is right,but D05 wins more points

Delusion is an asset


Posted By: Makelele
Date Posted: 10/31/2018 at 6:06pm
Yes, I love the idea of a video review


Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: 10/31/2018 at 10:25pm
Originally posted by Tinykin Tinykin wrote:

Let's have  a race.
First with a review gets a thank youSmile
First with a video review gets a very big thank you.Thumbs Up

I am not sure I have a lens wide enough capture all of my rotundness in a video review, but I'll see what I can do.

ILya


-------------
BTY Mazunov ST
Dignics 05


Posted By: Tinykin
Date Posted: 11/01/2018 at 5:16am
OK, me firstSmile, Only 20mins practice so I'll leave the details to the expert reviewers.

Overall T05H has a high throw with a similar feel to H8 but unique in its own right. Good for those deep, high topspin loops. Excellent at blocking and very controllable on serve receive. Great for those who can’t quite get to grips with T05 and can’t figure out which is the best Hurricane to buy. There are no ambiguities with T05H.

Butterfly has struck gold again and will once more cause me to ignore my children's financial welfare.





-------------
>65yo, presently overweight rather than obese.

Currently testing; Darker Speed90 with T05H/Dignics05. Update; T05 on BH is impressive when all is right,but D05 wins more points

Delusion is an asset


Posted By: AndySmith
Date Posted: 11/01/2018 at 6:03am
Nice! I'm looking forward to trying a sheet now. I remember people wanting a harder 05 years ago on the forum. I think it makes a lot more sense in these plastic times.

Still expensive though, of course. No getting away from it.

-------------
This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.


Posted By: Nightsky
Date Posted: 11/01/2018 at 6:53am
Will order a red sheet of T05H later today and slap it on a 1-ply kiso-hinoki j-pen by Xiom. Curious to see how that will work out. Never used hinoki or j-pen before...


Posted By: FruitLoop
Date Posted: 11/01/2018 at 7:40am
Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

Nice! I'm looking forward to trying a sheet now. I remember people wanting a harder 05 years ago on the forum. I think it makes a lot more sense in these plastic times.

Still expensive though, of course. No getting away from it.


And another thing is, really really hard. Like way harder than any ESN rubber. Usable for mere amateurs?


Posted By: AndySmith
Date Posted: 11/01/2018 at 9:10am
Originally posted by FruitLoop FruitLoop wrote:

Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

Nice! I'm looking forward to trying a sheet now. I remember people wanting a harder 05 years ago on the forum. I think it makes a lot more sense in these plastic times.

Still expensive though, of course. No getting away from it.


And another thing is, really really hard. Like way harder than any ESN rubber. Usable for mere amateurs?


It depends. Hard doesn't necessarily mean massively fast. From one perspective, it can mean more linear, lower catapult. It can make some features of gameplay easier than 05-fx, for example, depending on what you personally find tricky. And I use slower blades these days so...

It's still softer than the spinart sponge, so there's that!

I don't play like the pros do, but I might like it for other reasons than the pros do too. With me, it's just curiosity. I've ordered one today.

-------------
This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.


Posted By: tom
Date Posted: 11/01/2018 at 10:01am
Does anyone think T05H will benefit from a Chinese booster and how many layers is appropriate for a new rubber?


Posted By: HarmonicTT
Date Posted: 11/01/2018 at 10:43am
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Does anyone think T05H will benefit from a Chinese booster and how many layers is appropriate for a new rubber?


Why would you boost a brand new tenergy rubber... they do not handle booster well and actually get worse and too mushy. I would advise against that especially since it looks like you have no clue on boosting steps. Only if it was old and dead try it but not new...


Posted By: tom
Date Posted: 11/01/2018 at 10:50am
Originally posted by HarmonicTT HarmonicTT wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Does anyone think T05H will benefit from a Chinese booster and how many layers is appropriate for a new rubber?


Why would you boost a brand new tenergy rubber... they do not handle booster well and actually get worse and too mushy. I would advise against that especially since it looks like you have no clue on boosting steps. Only if it was old and dead try it but not new...

I have never boosted new Jap /Euro rubbers and specifically T05H - that is why I asked.  FYI I actively boost my Chinese rubbers.


Posted By: HarmonicTT
Date Posted: 11/01/2018 at 10:52am
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by HarmonicTT HarmonicTT wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Does anyone think T05H will benefit from a Chinese booster and how many layers is appropriate for a new rubber?


Why would you boost a brand new tenergy rubber... they do not handle booster well and actually get worse and too mushy. I would advise against that especially since it looks like you have no clue on boosting steps. Only if it was old and dead try it but not new...


I have never boosted new Jap /Euro rubbers and specifically T05H - that is why I asked.  FYI I actively boost my Chinese rubbers.


Esn rubbers doesn't need any booster if that is the case you need to look into softer rubbers instead of trying to ruin something meant for a specific playing style or rubber characteristics. Esn rubbers are boosted from the factory



Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd. - https://www.webwiz.net