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Pro Table Tennis Serves video...

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    Posted: 04/14/2008 at 1:56am
I'm sorry if this might seem rude, but some people can't really afford to spend $30 on a video, I was hoping someone could share it?

Thanks in advance!
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anixon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anixon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2008 at 2:12am
I don't have this video... but it sounds interesting. Who makes it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anixon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2008 at 2:17am
sweet thanks. this looks pretty good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2008 at 3:09am
my friend has bought it, and i watched it over his place. if i was to share it, i would feel very guilty, as when watching the dvd, the guys here have put ALOT of effort in making the video, theres over 30 players [including dimitrji otvhcarov and ma lin]

its a high quality video that should be watched MANY times, and each time u watch it , u should analyse a different aspect every time, such as looking at the feet only, and the next time, wrist snap etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Swiff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2008 at 3:18am
I understand feeling guilty.  STILL wish I could have it via megaupload of rapidshare or something.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2008 at 3:22am
hey man 30 bucks via paypal, doesnt anyone have an allowance from their parents or something lol?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TAKOYAK1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2008 at 3:25am
Unfortunatley some people just cant afford an extra $30 with all the price hikes and mortgage hikes and etc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2008 at 3:26am
oh yeh good point, never considered from my parents or brothers perspective, who have mortages.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tdragon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2008 at 3:35am
Originally posted by TAKOYAK1 TAKOYAK1 wrote:

Unfortunatley some people just cant afford an extra $30 with all the price hikes and mortgage hikes and etc
Yeah. For most of us, $30 is not the big amount. But in some under-developed country, this amount could mean a lot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cata_60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2008 at 3:36am
 Im from a rather poor country,Romania,and im not a rich man,but i afforded to order it through an american friend and paid about 35$.
 Its not fair for those guys who  produced that dvd  to steal their work.
  A person who loves table tennis cant make this request
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anixon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2008 at 4:14am
Originally posted by cata_60 cata_60 wrote:

 Im from a rather poor country,Romania,and im not a rich man,but i afforded to order it through an american friend and paid about 35$.
 Its not fair for those guys who  produced that dvd  to steal their work.
  A person who loves table tennis cant make this request


Well unless you're some poor orphan child in a developing country who works for 30 cents a day and dreams of playing table tennis. You don't even have enough money for food and you can't afford a table tennis blade, so you carved a blade out of a piece of plywood you found in the garbage and glued some rubber you cut out of an abandoned tire onto the surface. You dream of one day becoming a professional but cannot afford time at the club, and besides you are working 10-12 hours a day to feed your granny and the 6 other children in the family. So you practice every night after your dinner of boiled turnips and seasoning. The exercise and joy of playing helps you to forget the hunger you feel. You practice hard with every technique you have heard of and want to learn more. You get all your techniques and do all your learning during the day. Your work place has a 486 computer that the employees can use during lunch time and it has internet (dial up). You spend all your time downloading "shared" dvds. And teach yourself.

The days go by and your hardwork pays off. You eventually become a professional! You buy all those DVDs that you used to watch, and you use your fame and money to bring table tennis to impoverished youth in your country. You donate money to schools and orphanages and you are a hero to all who know your name. You struggled to change your destiny. And it all began with a simple download.

To all those who shared the DVDs for you who could not afford them... you say THANK YOU.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dragon kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2008 at 10:57am
Talking about efforts and rights..
What about those players efforts and rights?
Each player dedicated more efforts and time in each serve then the people in making the DVD. They have copyright for their serve. And this people they stole their serves, the serves they have been working on and perfect all their lives, for what? making profits for themselves..
Do they have the players permission? Do they pay the players they put on their dvd..
This people steal too, don't forget that..
If i were the player on that DVD, and they don't ask permission from me to put my serve on that DVD, for sure I'll sue them..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2008 at 11:14am
uh......

what about television broadcast and the broadcast of sports in general? including replays and slo mo's of points which DO SHOW their serve ?

so ur saying ESPN asks every single baseball, basketball, and football player to sign some contract and individually ask them for permission to show em their strokes, footworks?

if thats the case, we probably would never have sport on tv, or have an audience by that matter.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeeMc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2008 at 11:27am
Anyone know a site that ships the DVD to the UK and allows payment by paypal?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chronos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2008 at 11:33am
I don't know about this DVD, but in world class strokes (from alpha) the players are aware of being filmed and actually wave to the camera; I'd be very surprised if they were filming without obtaining consent from people featured in the DVDs.

Personally I think these DVDs help the sport.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dragon kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2008 at 11:59am
Originally posted by theman theman wrote:

uh......

what about television broadcast and the broadcast of sports in general? including replays and slo mo's of points which DO SHOW their serve ?

so ur saying ESPN asks every single baseball, basketball, and football player to sign some contract and individually ask them for permission to show em their strokes, footworks?

if thats the case, we probably would never have sport on tv, or have an audience by that matter.




ESPN pay for the broadcasting rights, that goes to the clubs, then to the player.. See the difference??
How else do you think MU is able to offer a 150.000 pounds a week to one of their player?

And Chronos, they might not know it will be sell commercially..
If you play TT and someone say hi and wave at you with a friendly gesture, you might wave back just trying to be nice..


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chronos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2008 at 12:17pm
Just emailed DVD producer to get answer to this question.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seasterl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2008 at 12:31pm
I thought the issue of copyright infringement was already discussed on this forum.  One thing, though, is that if the $30 is going to be difficult to obtain for the DVD, what are you going to watch it on.  The computer or DVD player / TV costs far more than the disc, yet that DVD will help improve in TT much more.  When I was younger, I'd go mow some elderly person's yard to earn the money for whatever I wanted, and in the end, I felt better about it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dragon kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2008 at 12:50pm
Originally posted by chronos chronos wrote:

Just emailed DVD producer to get answer to this question.


And they will say?? LOL
If they pay each player, the dvd price will be much much more expensive..
For example a football player in a big club will earn a percentage of a shirt, a mug, or anything with their name on it (image rights)
and if they are 30 players on that dvd, let's say each player get $1 per dvd, and the producer get none? $1 for exposing your serve will be very cheap don't you think? considering that a potential opponent might study the dvd and they can get beaten because of it?
Common sense.. don't need to ask..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chronos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2008 at 1:15pm
My prediction is that all people featured in the DVD have given consent to be included.

Second prediction: professionals are compensated not on an individual basis but yearly by whomever is licenced to produce DVDs of match and training footage.  This compensation (lets call it "media licence") is the cost to tape professional events such as world cup + broadcast as well as produce DVDs.

Theory: Gross revenue from the serves DVD is quite small, whereas revenues from match coverage + DVD sales is much higher.

Serves DVD is a kind of "bonus" production - undertaken on a smaller scale, to smaller profit vs. advertising profits of match broadcast.  Piracy cuts into those profits.  If enough piracy happens, the production of such DVDs stop.

I don't buy this theory about serve exposure hurting the games of the people featured in the DVD.  Professionals don't go to buy world class serves to get a look at their opponents serve.  They have coaches and trainers watching + taping matches for strategic analysis later.  Producing this DVD helps the amateurs + people new to the sport.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chronos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2008 at 1:20pm
Oh, I don't think there is one specific entity that negotiates with professional table tennis players exclusively for image rights.  There must be one consortium that handles media rights + royalties for professional athletes - people who produce table tennis DVDs pay to this consortium (part of the cost of producing the DVD) and the consortium in turn pays yearly royalties to professional players in exchange for image rights.  There is no invoice at the end of the year that goes to a professional that says "1000 serves videos sold - here is your cut" that would be too inefficient, no one could afford the overhead of producing a dvd (legally) that way.

I'm sure others know more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongcrazy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2008 at 2:09pm
Just because you want it and can't afford it doesn't mean it should be given to you for free.......... I want to drive a Ferrari and can't afford one, who's got one to give up???  Gimme Gimme, come on I want it!  I will even let you pay the insurance for me and pay you back if I win the lottery. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rustyfo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2008 at 2:16pm
its annoying that they dont sell by download, they don't deliver to my country so I can't get it even though I would gladly pay double price :S
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeeMc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2008 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by rustyfo rustyfo wrote:

its annoying that they dont sell by download, they don't deliver to my country so I can't get it even though I would gladly pay double price :S
 
Same, apart from that last part, lol, I think a site I was on earlier quoted me $60 (30 for shipping) but I didn't wanna.  Once again does anyone know a site that delivers to the UK and accepts payment by paypal?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongcrazy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2008 at 2:22pm
Originally posted by rustyfo rustyfo wrote:

its annoying that they dont sell by download, they don't deliver to my country so I can't get it even though I would gladly pay double price :S
 
I will buy one and send it to you - where are you located - PM me if you really want one and we will figure out the details......
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Imzadim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2008 at 2:23pm
Originally posted by rustyfo rustyfo wrote:

its annoying that they dont sell by download, they don't deliver to my country so I can't get it even though I would gladly pay double price :S

Are you sure of that? They say on the site that they can accommodate individual delivery needs.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dalamchops Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2008 at 2:24pm
Originally posted by dragon kid dragon kid wrote:

Talking about efforts and rights..
What about those players efforts and rights?
Each player dedicated more efforts and time in each serve then the people in making the DVD. They have copyright for their serve. And this people they stole their serves, the serves they have been working on and perfect all their lives, for what? making profits for themselves..
Do they have the players permission? Do they pay the players they put on their dvd..
This people steal too, don't forget that..
If i were the player on that DVD, and they don't ask permission from me to put my serve on that DVD, for sure I'll sue them..


it's not like you can reproduce their serve just by watching a video lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/14/2008 at 2:34pm
scenario -

werner schlager goes on youtube with his mate chen wexieing, they sit down and search "ma lin" ghost service video.

they watch it over 100 times, even freezing certain points.

on saturday they play at the Austrian open, beating their 1st and 2nd round competitors, shclager meets ma lin in the 3rd round,

schlager gets woooped 4:0

karl jindrak looks from the crowd, in a sigh of disbelief

schlager, grabbing the towel, head down and coach ferenc looking away

werner : well i guess that didnt help!
i lost my racquet

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