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Rakza 7 vs. Fortissimo |
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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No Rich, that's the thing you do not understand or at least don't listen to anything anyone says. You can remove finezip clean in 5 minutes and have the Rakza glued on dead flat 10 minutes from now, just get on with it and do it, warming the glue with a hair dryer should make it even easier to remove. There is NO issue gluing tensors and not being able to understand how glue works is NOT normal. Rakza 7 It's a good enough rubber to use at US 2600+ just like Andro's Hexer is, there is nothing over hyped about generation 4+ tensors. The only players I know of at that level who don't boost use tensors in preference to tenergy.
Every post you make is like you have your head buried in the sand chanting - Fortissimo is God- I shall only worship Fortissimo- Fortissimo is God... In fact I think the guys making videos about Pushblocker could make an even funnier one about the adventures of Richrf
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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Take off Finezip from the rubber in 5 minutes???? I have no idea what you are talking about. Edited by richrf - 01/05/2012 at 12:35pm |
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garwor
Silver Member Joined: 06/02/2010 Location: Serbia Status: Offline Points: 730 |
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Stupid thread, rakza 7 is very good rubber. Has both spin and speed, and also good for flat hits. I tried somebody's fortissimo for one session, nothing special, softer rubber, with no power from distance, suitable for kids and girls.
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cotdt
Gold Member Joined: 10/19/2010 Location: Bay Area, CA Status: Offline Points: 1013 |
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I'm sure Fortissimo is a good rubber, but the only thing I got out of this review is that it is a low throw rubber, and that you like it very much. After 10 minutes of reading.
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Nittaku Resound
FH: Joola Timeless BH: Joola Timeless |
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Anton Chigurh
Premier Member Joined: 09/15/2009 Status: Offline Points: 3962 |
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I would donate to that video's production. The adventures of the corporate shill. I hope he's getting paid. Otherwise... |
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Neo H3 40D| Offensive S | Tenergy 80
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Peter C
Gold Member Joined: 04/25/2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1343 |
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richrf
The point bluebucket is making is; Finezip is a Latex glue and that means you can peel it off the back of your sheets of Rakza 7 and thus start from scratch. If you're not sure how to peel off the old glue layer; then I'll quote Roundrobin's advice from last October: "Buy some Tear Mender glue from a local hardware store or Amazon.com. Put an uniform coat on the surface you wish to remove previous glue residue/coating. Dry it with a hairdryer until it becomes clear (it's white color when wet) which should only take 30 seconds. Then peel off (or roll off) the layer of Tear Mender glue slowly. Everything should be clean after this procedure." If you don't remove the old glue layer from your previous attempts; then you will never get a smooth finish. Whatever video you watched on youtube, that advised you to put a tensor on with the glue still wet; should be ignored. With a tensor, it is important to make sure the glue on the rubber and blade have both dried to clear, before you attach the rubber to the blade; as water based glue is a contact glue. Edited by Peter C - 01/05/2012 at 3:40pm |
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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Thanks for the advice which I am quite sure is well meaning. I don't want to take the sheets off again at this point since it is going to be replaced. However, the last time that I took it off, I spent quite some time trying to get the Finezip water based glue off the rubber and it barely made a dent. It is really stuck on there good. It may actually be within the rubber at this time. However, I know that you are trying to be helpful and I greatly appreciate the time you took to write your message. Thanks again!
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icontek
Premier Member This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
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The hype about tensor is simply that you can match or exceed classic rubbers for speed and spin without sacrificing control.
Just a few years ago you needed firmer japanese sponges that were less forgiving like Juic Varites to approach this sort of speed without glue. |
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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Out of curiosity, I went to tabletennisdb.com to see how the two rubbers compare. The comparison is pretty much along the lines that I suggested in terms of speed, spin, control, weight, durability, etc. I don't think my experiences are that much off the mark. Edited by richrf - 01/05/2012 at 3:45pm |
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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Thanks for the info. What would you say is the best non-ESN rubbers out there besides Tenergy (let's leave Fortissimo out of this also)? This is what I am looking for. If it is Sriver or Mark V then I think my present equipment is probably the best I can find for myself. If there is something that I am missing, I would appreciate knowing about it. Thanks again.
Edited by richrf - 01/05/2012 at 3:52pm |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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My 3 picks:
Giant Dragon Karate Soft/Hard
Giant Dragon Superspin G3 Soft/Hard
Joola Phenix
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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Thanks. I was actually checking out Phenix a couple of hours ago. I'll look at the others you mentioned. Anything in particular that makes these your 3 picks? Are they just good all around rubbers or do they have some standout features? Thanks again. Edited by richrf - 01/05/2012 at 4:05pm |
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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If you're looking for non-esn stuff, but current gen speed and spin, then Stiga Calibra is a good pick. It's very fast though. At least it comes in 4 varieties these days. I had a few months using the Sound version and loved it on my backhand.
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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Yes, Andy. This is exactly what I am looking for. I remember looking at Calibra a ways back but I don't know why it went off my radar screen. Maybe because I felt it might be too fast. I'll recheck. Thanks.
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Peter C
Gold Member Joined: 04/25/2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1343 |
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Try Calibra LT Spin or LT sound.
Edited by Peter C - 01/05/2012 at 4:39pm |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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Oh, what makes them unique is that they are European/Hybrid type rubbers that I've used and liked.
The first two are low cost, high speed rubbers that have pretty good durability - SuperSpin G3 is tuned, but you can let the tuning wear off and still have a good rubber. Karate is untuned but plays decently well. Karate is $18, Superspin G3 is $25.
Joola Phenix is expensive ($60), but is easily the fastest thing I've played with and gets great spin if you have excellent brush type technique. Great for hitting - every ball hit or looped properly blows by the opponent if they are close to the table. But hard as hell to control in the short game and very little dwell time. But again, the speed is addictive - I actually bought 4 sheets and I sold one blade with it, but I still dream of returning to it (though the cheaper Superspin G3 is satiating me right now).
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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Thanks. That is the second recommendation. I think I was afraid of the speed. I think I am going to purchase one sheet and do I quick compare. I believe I am on the right track now. Thanks much for the suggestions! |
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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Great! That is exactly the information I am looking for. I'll check out the offerings and probably try out one of the Giant Dragons. As for the Phenix it looks inviting. But I don't think I can try out both the Phenix and the Calibra so I will see which ones come closest to the specs I am looking for and try one out. What I like most about the Fortissimo is the tremendous control that I get. I can pick that corner out for a inside-out hit and knock that ball away. But I am interested in seeing if there might be another rubber out there, particularly since Fortissimo is temporary out of stock. It would be nice to have a good backup. Thanks again. Your help is very much appreciated. |
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Leshxa
Gold Member Joined: 01/03/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1917 |
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Rich, I am sorry if I come off a bit odd, but there is no purpose to this thread - no value for anyone but yourself. Generally, the forum members are very helpful, but if you ask more questions than state your experience, you may find a little bit more value in discussion of the topics. Regarding your "comparison", I suggest you look at other comparisons for example. Comparing equipment means performing many types of strokes in a controlled environment and noticing the difference. This goes for evaluating pushes, flips, loops, hits, smashes, chopping, spin, speed, lob... etc. Your initial post provided neither....
This is correct. When comparing rubber, it is best to use the same frame and environment - in this case, the same blade.
This is comparing apples and oranges. How can you compare a crack sound with high throw? Rakza makes a very nice sound by the way, if you make proper contact with the ball.
Now, the purpose of comparison IS to try the same shots and see how the rubber performs. Being unwilling to try means that you are very biased and hence the evaluation will be useless.
This is again, a comment without a purpose. How did Rakza feel when you hit through the ball? This is where Rakza truly performs. Going through the ball during the loop drive, the rubber is capable of producing strong spin and excellent speed.
If you are evaluating Fortissimo with Tenergy, Shriver or Mark V, then you must try those rubbers and go through the same routine evaluating the shots you use with your playing style with different rubbers and observing their reaction. No sense discussing price tags or classic favorites unless you actually compare them properly! Again, I am sorry if I seem to patronize you, but you could learn a lot by browsing through the forum for great posts - with great reviews and excellent information that benefits the whole community. As for Fortissimo, there is a great review by Gregg Letts from About.com table tennis forum posted on Megaspin.net http://www.megaspin.net/articles/view.asp?id=531. One only has to look into the two sections - who will love it and who will hate it to understand what this rubber is all about. Now, looking at the Rakza 7, it is designed with control in mind while still retaining capabilities of strong spin and good speed. It is a better rubber for a beginner because of its forgiveness and superior touch. If you were truly able to be impartial to this equipment and fully evaluated the strength of both, you would find some things that Rakza does better and some things that it doesn't do so well. Like with anything else, there is no best equipment. There is only equipment that is best for your style and your skills. |
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Back to table tennis...
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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Hi, Thank you very much for walking me through your review process and providing me with your comments. There are probably a couple of more rubbers that my budget allows me to test out in addition to Fortissimo which I will be definitely buying since it is my tried and true rubber. All reviews, I believe are going to have issues associated with them. You have correctly pointed out the issues with my review. However, I think we can both agree that rubber performance is heavily dependent upon technique, execution/speed (speed of execution is incredibly important), personal feel and style, blade etc. This is a general issue with all reviews. For me, feel is particular important. The reason I didn't try out inside-out shots is because I simply did not have the feel. Of course, the way I feel a ball (with my fingers) may be completely different from someone else. Any review is going to be highly personal. As you may have noticed, Fortissimo does extremely well on its own reviews on tabletennisdb.com (I provided the link above), so I am not completely out of line in my preferences for the speed, spin, control and durability of Fortissimo. All I can say is that for me, I felt much more in control with Fortissimo. I never said Radka was junk, I merely said that it was not for me for the reasons I gave. The issues with water based glues and tensors is a totally different issue, but something that people who are not very familiar with gluing should definitely know about. However, what we clearly have is a large difference of opinion and that goes with the territory. tabletennisdb.com, I believe, provides a reasonable snapshot of a reasonable sample of blades, styles, techniques, etc., if someone wants further information. But of course, ultimately it is personal preference. Again, I greatly appreciate your in-depth feedback. Thank you.
Edited by richrf - 01/05/2012 at 9:29pm |
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roundrobin
Premier Member Joined: 10/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4708 |
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.
Edited by roundrobin - 10/29/2015 at 7:47pm |
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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Hi,
No, I am not. The only place I am posting anything about anything right now is right here. I think some people really have formed a completely wrong opinion about me. I am a straight shooter. I believe in customer beware and also I believe in full disclosure. I speak from the point of view of a person who has been playing the game, on and off, for over 40 years. I am not technical but I am a student of the game. I am not fanatical but I love the game because there are so many dimensions to it. I would love to see the game grow and I understand barriers to entry and the type of questions some people such as myself may be looking for answers to. Right now I am training a friend and I understand pretty well what she needs. I think she is representative of many people who love the game but are never going to play tournament. She needed something simple, with good feel, good control, and consistent. For her I bought a Tibhar Samsonov Contact with Stiga Neos Synergy Tech. She LOVES IT! (Total cost $64 from Dandoy). I didn't recommend Fortissimo, Diamond CQ because I thought it would be inappropriate. And because I didn't oversize her, she is playing the game instead of trying to figure out equipment. I think that this combination is a great combination (consider the price) for many, many players which is why I posted a good review on another thread. I believe there are many, many players such as myself who may prefer the characteristics of Fortissimo over other rubbers (e.g. tensors or Tenergy) for the reasons I describe. I made a comparison myself out of curiosity and for me it wasn't even a close call. Is this believable? It should be. Am I unique. I doubt it. Now there may be a rubber that is even more appropriate for me and I am willing to do a small search. A few have been recommended on this thread and I will choose two. But please, if I decide that Fortissimo is still the best, then people should just be able to accept it. I think the excellent reviews on tabletennisdb support the fact that there are others that agree with me. I noticed there were one or two mediocre reviews of Fortissimo on this an other forums. Can a forum respect one excellent review for this rubber, supported by similar reviews on tabletennisdb.com? I hope so. One last note. I have absolutely nothing to do with Killerspin other than I took some lessons from Lupi, and Kang Kang Huang, (just a few), both of whom are great coaches and I consider myself lucky to be able to tap into their vast knowledge. I greatly respect what Robert Blackwell is trying to do to build the exposure of table tennis in Chicago and the U.S. He loves the game as I do. I have never taken any compensation of any kind and they were not even aware that I am on this forum until I told them yesterday when I called up to inquire about the availability of Fortissimo. But, I am not a fan of Fortissimo because I respect the Killerspin company or the people who work there. I am a fan because I genuinely love the rubber after testing out dozens of other similarly priced rubbers (including Tenergy and tensors) at the club. I hope that members can respect my opinion as I respect yours. Thank you.
Edited by richrf - 01/05/2012 at 10:18pm |
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Anton Chigurh
Premier Member Joined: 09/15/2009 Status: Offline Points: 3962 |
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I think we should play a drinking game.
Every time Rich posts a comment mentioning Fortissimo or Killerspin, take a shot. I'd be wasted inside of an hour. |
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Neo H3 40D| Offensive S | Tenergy 80
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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Not at all. One last thing - while Phenix is awesome and durable, do be aware that it breaks if it hits the table and might need rubber cement work if you hate chipped up rubber around the edges. But the actual rubber maintains its properties and consistency for a long time.
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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Thanks much. The chipping around the edges doesn't bother me at all as long as the rubber retains its properties and is consistent. I haven't had any problems hitting the table but thanks for making me aware of this. Appreciate the advice and help! |
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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Just read a review on this forum of Phenix. One member actually compared it to Fortissimo and said they play very similar. Maybe they come from the same factory? Interesting. NextLevel understands my style of play!
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right2niru
Silver Member Joined: 11/10/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 820 |
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vic#74
Super Member Joined: 07/26/2010 Location: Russia Status: Offline Points: 442 |
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Impatiently waiting for new knowledge that Fortissimo totally outperfom Phenix :) After rakza was beaten and put into dust it ll be no surprise. Tip - the cheapest phenix is there:
http://www.timtts.be/Shop/index.php?main_page=index&language=en You better go with phenix 48 cause plain phenix still able to produce decent spin when new. It could make some advantages to Fortissimo in comparison For all: despite anything that Rich will find out about Phenix - it's a good rubber for those who loop/hit - 50/50. Spin/ speed ratio a lot like Bryce but without that wonderful speed glue feeling and lesser dwell. Best rubber for flat hitting for me.
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icontek
Premier Member This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
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In an almost entirely unrelated event, I gave a Mark V 1.8mm FH player (US1400) my 6 month old sheet of Acuda S3 2.0mm for his FH.
In a series of games against three opponents last night I watched this BH dominant player make more than 75% of his FH opening last night. His on table percentage for the opening loop went up over 50% easily. And he opens against a much wider variety of underspins successfully. The balls have more pace than the same strokes with Mark V, have a longer trajectory with a bigger arc that is safer and clears the net with a large margin for error. The high throw, soft feel and forgiving nature of Acuda S3 makes it a perfect upgrade for beginning intermediates to graduate from classic to Tensor performance. Suggesting Calibra to sub US1500 players is silly. Almost as classic as suggesting that Bryce with speeedglue was the best rubber for US1000 players... The "3" series that donic is famous for (F3, X3, S3) are designed to suit the broadest range of abilities and allow even players at my level to produce good quality shots. That being said, other Tensor resellers (Xiom, Andro, etc) also usually produce a version of their high performance rubbers for the common man (Vega Euro is a good example). /endpromo. |
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kuifje
Super Member Joined: 04/06/2010 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 136 |
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The tensor rubbers from Donic are indeed very nice. Haven't tried S3, but I've played for the last 2 years with Acuda S2, Baracuda, and coppa X3. I haven't seen any problem with quality of the rubbers. My first Baracuda was crumbling a bit at the edges, but that is no problem with the second sheet I play with now (currently at about 50 hours of play, still almost as new). They have fairly large pores and I use 2 layers of glue on the sponge (1 on the blade), otherwise they don't stick very well.
Edited by kuifje - 01/06/2012 at 8:25am |
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