Samsonov equipment in Moscow?

That's alot of work for a company to make a new die for ONE rubber for one tournament for a player they don't sponsor and will recieve no recognition for doing it, believable :)? not for me. Sorry

That would also make this rubber illegal, 100%

nicefrog wrote: That's alot of work for a company to make a new die for ONE rubber for one tournament for a player they don't sponsor and will recieve no recognition for doing it, believable :)? not for me. Sorry That would also make this rubber illegal, 100%

The cost for that would be miniscule - to make a diecast for a Tibhar imprint costs probably less than a few hundred euros. As for its legality, read my opinion above.

so could we say that the real tibhar grip-s would be illegal?

JimT wrote: Second, can you please read my previous posts just above this one? The legality of the rubber that Samsonov used at the World Cup is obvious as long as it has the same topsheet that Tibhar submitted for the certification... and why wouldn't they submit the same? this was obviously an experiment on their part, and it seems to be a rather successful one.

I read it, I just don't agree. I don't see Haifu handing over their prized product they are making a killing off of to another company like that, even if they were given some money in return, or even a lot of money, thats taking away a lot of your market. I can see it being similar, but not the same. Why would it need to be the same? It's not like whale 2 is a super special or unique, like people said, even the national team members went away from it. I just don't see any point in Haifu giving away their topsheet, but people claiming that their rubber is used by national team, pros, champions, etc is an old practice by companies, and who is to say that there is any evidence, other than the word of one man who has to gain.

Jonan wrote: JimT wrote: Second, can you please read my previous posts just above this one? The legality of the rubber that Samsonov used at the World Cup is obvious as long as it has the same topsheet that Tibhar submitted for the certification... and why wouldn't they submit the same? this was obviously an experiment on their part, and it seems to be a rather successful one. I read it, I just don't agree. I don't see Haifu handing over their prized product they are making a killing off of to another company like that, even if they were given some money in return, or even a lot of money, thats taking away a lot of your market. I can see it being similar, but not the same. Why would it need to be the same? It's not like whale 2 is a super special or unique, like people said, even the national team members went away from it. I just don't see any point in Haifu giving away their topsheet, but people claiming that their rubber is used by national team, pros, champions, etc is an old practice by companies, and who is to say that there is any evidence, other than the word of one man who has to gain.

Here is why.

1. They are not handing over anything. This was clearly an experiment, a one time thing. Also as you can see, Haifu is openly claiming the bragging rights which means they didn't have any gag condition on their collaboration with Tibhar. Everybody will know that this rubber which Samsonov won World Cup with was made by Haifu.

2. Tibhar obviously will not simply re-brand BW-2 and issue it under Grip-S once they start production. I bet they will more or less reverse engineer BW-2 and will start making something very similar to it using their own factories or the Chinese factories which produce rubbers for them on a  regular basis. And of course they will charge more money for it than Haifu does. The fact that they do not have Grip-S for sale at all and will only start selling it in 2010 more or less proves it. Can you imagine how stupid it would be otherwise from marketing point of view, when their foremost sponsored player wins such a prominent title with a new rubber and they fail to capture the market excitement?

All in all, it clearly points to an interesting (and successful) experiment that they have done in collaboration with Haifu - now they need to quickly readjust and start producing "new" Grip-S with the same topsheet (or they will resubmit a new one to ITTF and re-certify it for the next approved rubber list). I do not see any disadvantage here for Haifu - I am sure they wanted this collaboration perhaps even more than Tibhar, and they could be doing some more experiments with them in the future. They will definitely get some name recognition in Europe because of this one, and perhaps they are hoping to get into some markets which before this never heard of their brand.

P.S. When I asked you to read my previous post, I referred to your doubts about the legality of such a rubber, not to the claims about who has made it. Once again, in any case, whether Haifu manufactured it or not, this rubber is fully legal as long as it had the same topsheet as the one Tibhar submitted to ITTF for certification.

I guess the truth would come out depending on how Tibhar certifies their commercial product with the ITTF, whether they get another sheet approved or not. I doubt they would, even if it werent the same sheet, just for appearances sake, however. I also don't see Tibhar letting Haifu make any official statements of marketing about Samsanov using Whale 2 if he did, so the normal population will see Tibhar's add and see world cup Samsanov, and buy their stuff with no knowledge of Haifu, even many casual players from China haven't even heard of Haifu, much less normal American players.

ejmaster wrote: well today i received samsonov stratus power wood.   the blade in the picture could fit this blade. but i am not sure 100% (just 90%). and why it has a dark handle instead the blue handle for sams str pw?.   this is a sherlock holmes blade, lol.

i think it is because it is not the same blade...

I looked at the pictures of the new Samvonov's blade..I could be wrong,but does not it look more like a Nittaku's Acoustic,Violin,Violoncello or Tenor?All these blades have very thin outer 1245 venners and the thickest veneer in the middle.
Imo, after I checked the newest Tibhar blades at tak9.com.,the new Samsonov's blade does not look like anything made by Tibhar.

it is not a nittaku. i have all of these and it is not.

btwy boss what do you mean putting the price.

ejmaster wrote: btwy boss what do you mean putting the price.   you think samsonov use cb because it is more expensive lol.   price in tt blades does not mean anything a lot of times.

only info... prices we pay the 2 blades in europe.

holda wrote: I looked at the pictures of the new Samvonov's blade..I could be wrong,but does not it look more like a Nittaku's Acoustic,Violin,Violoncello or Tenor?All these blades have very thin outer 1245 venners and the thickest veneer in the middle. Imo, after I checked the newest Tibhar blades at tak9.com.,the new Samsonov's blade does not look like anything made by Tibhar.

In an interview after the World Cup, Samsonov said he is using Tibhar Samsonov Stratus..

http://www.mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29580&PID=356848#356848

robjkc wrote: hmm, the pictures from tak9 look to be a different blade than this picture.  From this picture it looks like the carbon is right below the top ply similar to the TBS or Maze.  I bet he's using a Butterfly blade with a Tibhar handle.

+1...the carbon layers appear to be right below the top ply, instead of next to the core; it looks like a tbs/viscaria.  However, comparing that pic with the tbs and viscaria sitting in front of me, it looks like the size of his core relative to the outer plies is thicker compared to tbs/visc - hes got a thicker core.. similar to new hk. So maybe custom. I was hoping he used a sams stratus..

good