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Tear Mender Vs. VOC free glues |
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tokold
Member Joined: 08/29/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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Posted: 09/27/2010 at 8:48am |
We all know that the major table tennis companies are out to fleece the non-sponsored table tennis player (esp., Butterfly). Outrageous prices for shoes, rubber, clothing, boosters, and glues. Most players are finding cheaper more economical alternatives. most notably lamp oil/parafin oil for boosting and tear mender for glue. I feel it has come to a point where somethings can't truly be substituted. It would be naive to believe that most companies put a lot of resources into researching boosters, rubbers and glues just to create something you can just find on the shelf. Its that little extra that makes the difference. Case and point, 'tear mender '. I recently start using tear mender instead of the typical VOC free glues on the market. It has a great premise, cheap, non-toxic, and removal is relatively easy. The problem is playability, I noticed in a tournament recently I wasn't getting a lot of rotation/rebound that I typically would using VOC free glues. My racket tended to have a harder feel. Is possible that there is different type of rubber compound added the VOC free glues to create this difference. I feel that tear mender is great idea, but playing at a +2200 level I have noticed its flaws. Interested to get feedback from the table tennis community.
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1dennistt
Silver Member Joined: 03/03/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 533 |
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While I don't play at your level (1850+), my practice partner is above 2100 and thinks my racket is playing as if glued. I use tear mender on the tenergy 05 on my forehand, the Tear Mender seems to work very well for me. I have noticed that my latest sheets of Tenergy seem to require a few playing sessions to achieve their spin potential. After this "break in period" they seem to play at a fairly high level of spin for a number of months, with a gradual tapering off of spin occurring after this time.
This may all come back to our level of play, what is acceptable for my game at my level may be unacceptable at yours. I suspect you require more and can get more out of your equipment than I can. |
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Donic Waldner World Champion 1989 ZLC (Inner), Donic BlueStorm Pro (Red) Max, ????? (Black) 1.8 mm)
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BeaverMD
Gold Member Joined: 11/09/2007 Location: Maryland, USA Status: Offline Points: 1897 |
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What are you comparing Tear Mender to? Someting like Andro Free or Nittaku Finezip?
I think the main thing with the VOC free glues including TM is you have to let it completely dry. I made that mistake once and the rubber felt mushy. How long did you have the rubbers attached to your blade before the tournament?
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razortt
Silver Member Joined: 07/09/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 504 |
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From experience, TM is much thicker than Butterfly and Joola voc glue.
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BeaverMD
Gold Member Joined: 11/09/2007 Location: Maryland, USA Status: Offline Points: 1897 |
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Agreed. It's probably the latex layer. When I used Andro Free Glue, it's so thin it's almost like applying foam or hair mousse.
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debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
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Tearmendor, being VOC free, doesn't affect the property. So if you are upset about less spin and spin probably you had been knowingly/unknowingly using some glue that does... like rubber cement.
Also Tearmender is a latex based adhesive, you can see the caution section on pack that mentions latex allergy if touches skin for those allergic to latex. It is debateable if its takes 2200 or 2450 or 1835 to understand whether a glue is affecting a rubber or not but here's why i prefer tearmender to other glues: 1. it doesn't change rubber property (so game doesn't deteriorate after an hour or 2) unlike rubber cement 2. it is easy to peel off without damaging sponge or wood, unlike free chack 3. it is easy to apply uniformly (i prefer diluting with 40% clean/distilled water) 4. it ia cheap and easily available 5. it has very good bond strength even with thin layers 6. it passes Enez test 7. it comes off hands pretty easily, even if it touches the topsheet, doesn't affect the topsheet 8. it has a nice cylindrical bottle which can be used as roller 9. it is not from a table tennis manufacturer, and hence to premium price and branding Edited by debraj - 09/27/2010 at 12:08pm |
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tokold
Member Joined: 08/29/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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@BeaverMD
I glued with tear mender about 5 days before the tourney which I'm comparing with the VOC free glues of Butterfly and Donic which I typically use. Edited by tokold - 09/27/2010 at 12:13pm |
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tokold
Member Joined: 08/29/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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@Debraj
Have anyone noticed when removing VOC free glue from the sponge the glue has a more gummy and bouncier feel than that removed from tear mender, I would think that difference in layer texture would effect the playing characteristics of the rubber.
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1dennistt
Silver Member Joined: 03/03/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 533 |
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If you shake the bottle of Tear Mender you can find some that have thickened. You want to make sure it hasn't thickened when you purchase it. I have seen some bottles so thick it had turned to a solid. Apparently over time the ammonia evaporates, through the plastic bottles.
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Donic Waldner World Champion 1989 ZLC (Inner), Donic BlueStorm Pro (Red) Max, ????? (Black) 1.8 mm)
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debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
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i didn't get the point... but if you are asking about voc effect... yes, if you put a layer of rubber cement (voc) and then peel it off within 30 min, the rubber still have some of the effect. imo, under compressive force or even a little shear force, texture shouldn't affect so long it reaches a particular bond strength to prevent slippage.
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louisc
Super Member Joined: 02/18/2009 Location: Cyprus Status: Offline Points: 103 |
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Timo Boll ALC ST
FH:Tenergy 05 2.1 Black BH:Tenergy 05 2.1 Red |
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tokold
Member Joined: 08/29/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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@Debraj
No, VOC effect is not the question. Let me be plain, I believe when tear mender(TM) is used it does create a good bond and great for players on a budget but it dries in a fashion similar to rubber cement or elmer's glue. It does not compliment the qualities of the sponge, it develops a seperate harder rubber layer(relatively to the name brands) between the sponge and blade. TM seems to increase the speed of the rubber but hinders rotation due to its slightly harder and less spongy texture. Hey, its all up to the discerning player and his/her choice of equipment, experiment and post your own conclusions. Edited by tokold - 09/27/2010 at 4:59pm |
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BeaverMD
Gold Member Joined: 11/09/2007 Location: Maryland, USA Status: Offline Points: 1897 |
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Hmmm, that should have been more than sufficient time to dry completely. I don't know what's up. I certainly agree that it leaves a thicker layer than other VOC-free glue. If that's the case, I would just spend the extra money for Andro Free or Nittaku Finezip.
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spin_attack
Beginner Joined: 10/28/2010 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Do we need to glue the rubber sheets everytime (as is done with speed glue) or we can glue using TM and then continue using the setup for months, coz i dont intend ripping off the rubbers and gluing them back every week or so, so dont know how the glue will effect the properties of the setup over time.
Have any of u guys glued used TM and played with the setup for a decent time without seeing any deterioration in properties. thanks |
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BTY PK, T05fx, T80fx
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mmerkel
Silver Member Joined: 01/02/2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 746 |
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I would agree that the quality of latex in TM might not be the same as in Haifu WSB, Finezip or other VOC free glues. The glue layer, if very stiff, might influence the sponge and the way the sponge responds. If you have a friend that you trust to glue your rubbers for you, do a blind test and have them glue on the rubbers of your blade with different adhesives on the fh and bh and you can see if you know what they used for either side .
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BeaverMD
Gold Member Joined: 11/09/2007 Location: Maryland, USA Status: Offline Points: 1897 |
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You basically glue the rubber with TM, then leave the racket out to dry at least overnight - this is important and I'd let it dry for 48 hours if possible. You can then use the racket until the rubber dies. The only time I would peel off the rubber and re-attach is if was a bad glue job i.e. uneven or feels inconsistent.
As for the layer of latex that TM leaves, I do think as time passes, this layer gets increasingly firm. Not cardboard firm but I would equate it to chewing gum after you've chewed too long and the juiciness and flavor are gone. I think what happens is some players, especially those sensitive to their equipment, harmonize their stroke with the racket while TM is dry but still very flexible. After some time, that layer becomes dry but less flexible so it seems a bit harder and faster but less spinnier. This is all just a guess on my part but if it's the case, I'd just re-apply the rubber every few weeks.
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spin_attack
Beginner Joined: 10/28/2010 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Thanks Beaver,
@MMERKEL: that was a wicked suggestion, definitely worth a try. Edited by spin_attack - 10/29/2010 at 1:25pm |
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BTY PK, T05fx, T80fx
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stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Offline Points: 1026 |
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what is a good price for tear mender? where do you get it from.
I had not seen this thread and bought some; maybe a bit expensive at $15+6 shipping for 6oz? |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I wonder if diluting the tear mender before use (debraj method) allows a thinner layer to be spread on the blade which minimizes the effect that Tokold has noticed?
I also ended up with a kind of dead sheet once when I used too much Butterfly free chaque to glue and maybe didn't let it dry enough. Very annoying given the price of a sheet of Tenergy! I put my racket in a Yasaka "clickey" press overnight (but you could also use a heavy stack of books) and the problem was solved. |
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