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    Posted: 08/18/2010 at 10:25pm
Originally posted by roundrobin roundrobin wrote:

Originally posted by hungga hungga wrote:

Aye, those bas**** LP users. I just have to curse them, I have to. It's just a sin not to. LP users, die please. LOL
 
Thank you. 
 
LOOPMEISTER here's your poster child of a harmless LP hater... We love your blessing hungga!  But to be polite, you first please...  LOL

LOL. But on the good side, thanks for making this world a bit different. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2010 at 10:09pm
Originally posted by hungga hungga wrote:

Aye, those bas**** LP users. I just have to curse them, I have to. It's just a sin not to. LP users, die please. LOL
 
Thank you. 
 
LOOPMEISTER here's your poster child of a harmless LP hater... We love your blessing hungga!  But to be polite, you first please...  LOL
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Aye, those bas**** LP users. I just have to curse them, I have to. It's just a sin not to. LP users, die please. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/17/2010 at 8:42am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

I have 2 setups.. One is a little bit more offensive..

The slower setup is:
 
Butterfly Grubba Variant Blade with Friendship 729 SST 1.5 mm hard sponge and AIR Upupupup OX in the UQ version  (black)
 
The slightly faster setup is: (faster due to the slightly faster blade speed)
 
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus blade with Friendship 729 SST 1.5 mm hard sponge and TTMaster Fireproof OX
 
Rating is 2225 US Rating


from the 1800 thread
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emihet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/17/2010 at 1:58am
Hi, Pushblocker what equipment do you use?
301, Viscaria, VR, Clipper Wood
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2010 at 11:17am
Originally posted by LOOPMEISTER LOOPMEISTER wrote:

Dead ball vs. spin reversal can be deceiving but its also predictable once you get used to it. I think most of the "deception" of playing a LP blocker is when you have any kind of side spin on the ball and it comes back like a cork-screw making it very hard to judge how/where to hit it... Rule #1 don't used side spin when playing a LP blocker! LOL

(Ok, actually I would say "patience" is rule #1, but rule #2 is don't use side spin serves.)


 
I think that rule #1 against a good long pips blocker is: Don't serve short.. The moment you give my a short serve, I'll use the angles and keep you out of position.
Rule #2 should be to be patient and PICK YOUR HITS. If you try to attack every ball, you are going to look really bad fast..
Rule #3, if the opponent has a good reversing rubber, use low amounts of spin as your own spin will work against yourself.. Long pips, even grippy ones will not produce a lot of spin themselves and if you don't give a long pips player spin to work with, the spin returned is usually attackable.
Rule #4: IF you attack and your attack comes back, push the return back and then attack the opponents long pips push against your push. The long pips push will either be dead or have slight topspin and if you close the angle appropriately, you should be able to attack that ball very strong!
 
Of course, I'm aware of all the things that good players do against long pips and developed counter-measures..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LOOPMEISTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2010 at 10:12am
Dead ball vs. spin reversal can be deceiving but its also predictable once you get used to it. I think most of the "deception" of playing a LP blocker is when you have any kind of side spin on the ball and it comes back like a cork-screw making it very hard to judge how/where to hit it... Rule #1 don't used side spin when playing a LP blocker! LOL

(Ok, actually I would say "patience" is rule #1, but rule #2 is don't use side spin serves.)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2010 at 9:43am
Originally posted by alphapong alphapong wrote:

Originally posted by bravefest bravefest wrote:


I've seen it happen over and over:  a player with good footwork and swings loses to a fatass who stands there and lets his junk rubber do all the work for him.


That's funny. I  thought I saw those same matches. Here's what I Saw: A player with good touch and tactics beats a fathead who stands there mindlessly swinging away with no preparation, strategy, or understanding of what he is doing, hoping that his world class super duper power loop will do all the work for him.

I do however think that it just is not fair for people with an IQ under 90 to have to play someone with long pips. Really this kind of thing should be factored into the groupings at tournaments just like club affiliation. It would be pretty simple to implement. Entry forms just need an extra check box next to the club affiliation. "Sub 90 IQ. No pips please."

 
I agree!  I think that what is very important in table tennis is the understanding of the game. Whatever style you play, it is important to understand what the opponent and his equipment are doing. There really is no such thing as unpredictable equipment.   Just because somebody does not understand what the equipment does, doesn't make it unpredictable.  Let's look at long pips.. There are different types. Some produce mostly dead balls (the majority) if the stroke is passive. Others produce slightly reversed spin (but not a whole lot of reversal). However, the timing of the contact is critical of how much reversal you get. The earlier you contact the ball with long pips and the shorter the dwell time, the more reversal you will get. So, on a balsa wood with a low friction long pips rubber, you will get decent reversal on a off the bounce block. However, if you block on the table, you'll probably get a dead ball.. Now, what seems to be deception, in reality is NOT.  Sometimes it depends on your own spin on how much spin you get back. I can say with 100% certainty that if you repeat the identical stroke against identical spin with identical timing, the result will be the same every time!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2010 at 9:36am
Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

 
Long pips will help you to get to a certain level faster but they are actually a handicap once you reach a certain level..
 That says an awful lot about you Mr Pushblocker, I applaud you for that.
I noticed this myself when I was a young player.. Back in the country where I was born, I went from playing in the 16th highest class to playing in the 8th highest playing class in Vienna/Austria WITHIN 1 SEASON by just switching to long pips. However, my improvement slowed dramatically once I reached the 4th highest playing class in Vienna, I got stuck at my level and wasn't able to improve any more..  When I came to the US (after a few years of TT break), I improved my game mostly due to better understanding of the sport and strategy. While I also improved my game, I mostly improved by adding effective and distuptive playing patterns into my game. My game is all about how I can break my opponents game..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2010 at 9:31am
Originally posted by Jonan Jonan wrote:

Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:

Not to mention that even against not-so-high rated players who use SP or hard-sponged rubbers, LPs do not cause that much confusion and therefore a 2100-2200 rated LP player might find himself losing to a 1900-2000 inverted or SP player simply because the other guy is not bothered by LP deception factor.


The highest rated regular at my club is a 2100 rated combination user, plays away from the table with long pips and tenergy on a fast blade using location and twiddling. He's been more or less at the same level though for the last 10+ years though even though he plays more than any other person at the club and doesn't really have and weaknesses in his game. A 2000 level strong looper beats him more times than not because he reads the spin well and isn't fooled by anything. I have little doubt he'd fare better against higher people with inverted on both sides, however it keeps him at this same level.
 
I think that deception plays a much smaller role above 2000+ level. If somebody is good playing against a chopper is really no indication if they are good against a blocker. My game for example is all about messing up the opponents timing. A chopper (when playing defensive) gives a attacker more time to read the spin and attack. My off the bounce blocking style is all about placement and catching the opponent in a bad position to make unforced errors. Even though equipment between chopers and blockers (with long pips) is somewhat similar, playing against each style is quite different. Things that work against choppers often don't work against blockers.. The #1 skill against a long pips blocker is PATIENCE!! #1 skill against a chopper is reading his spin!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2010 at 3:13am
Originally posted by alphapong alphapong wrote:

That's funny. I thought I saw those same matches. Here's what I Saw: A player with good touch and tactics beats a fathead who stands there mindlessly swinging away with no preparation, strategy, or understanding of what he is doing, hoping that his world class super duper power loop will do all the work for him.I do however think that it just is not fair for people with an IQ under 90 to have to play someone with long pips. Really this kind of thing should be factored into the groupings at tournaments just like club affiliation. It would be pretty simple to implement. Entry forms just need an extra check box next to the club affiliation. "Sub 90 IQ. No pips please."


I don't think the best way to deal with an insult is to rephrase the same thing and sling it back at him. It's similar to "Nah uh, YOU'RE the stupid head!"
But yeah, people have no right to complain about long pips really, if you lose because they have long pips, you lost because you are unable to read spin and have problems looping anything but simple topspin. It does require you to think, but they are thinking more as well. People just get into a rut when playing something they aren't used to and fail to adjust their tactics. That is their main weakness, not their stupidity, it's more like being stubborn, because surely they know how to return backspin otherwise they would never return a serve, and surely they know what to do with a dead ball, everyone starts off like that and learns to smash and flat hit before loop. It's not due to lack of knowledge, they are just too stubborn to change their style to play someone different.

I played with long pips in a tournament, I stopped using it after that because I felt it didn't help me beat anyone I wouldn't have already beaten without it and in fact was a disadvantage, even at a low level, against players who knew how to play against it. Infact I'm pretty sure I lost one very close match simply due to lack off offence from the backhand.
I played a guy who had never seen long pips before and between rounds explained it to him, how they worked, what strokes with it would do, tactics against it, etc. and we ended up playing each other in the later rounds of groups and he did much better against me the second time around, made far less errors against the long pips. Just takes a little adjustment and changing gears.

That being said, if a player truly had "good footwork and swings" they wouldn't have problems looping back weak backspin and dead balls.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alphapong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2010 at 2:47am
Originally posted by bravefest bravefest wrote:


I've seen it happen over and over:  a player with good footwork and swings loses to a fatass who stands there and lets his junk rubber do all the work for him.


That's funny. I  thought I saw those same matches. Here's what I Saw: A player with good touch and tactics beats a fathead who stands there mindlessly swinging away with no preparation, strategy, or understanding of what he is doing, hoping that his world class super duper power loop will do all the work for him.

I do however think that it just is not fair for people with an IQ under 90 to have to play someone with long pips. Really this kind of thing should be factored into the groupings at tournaments just like club affiliation. It would be pretty simple to implement. Entry forms just need an extra check box next to the club affiliation. "Sub 90 IQ. No pips please."


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/30/2010 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

 
Long pips will help you to get to a certain level faster but they are actually a handicap once you reach a certain level..
 That says an awful lot about you Mr Pushblocker, I applaud you for that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/30/2010 at 3:43pm
Originally posted by Jonan Jonan wrote:

Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:

Not to mention that even against not-so-high rated players who use SP or hard-sponged rubbers, LPs do not cause that much confusion and therefore a 2100-2200 rated LP player might find himself losing to a 1900-2000 inverted or SP player simply because the other guy is not bothered by LP deception factor.


The highest rated regular at my club is a 2100 rated combination user, plays away from the table with long pips and tenergy on a fast blade using location and twiddling. He's been more or less at the same level though for the last 10+ years though even though he plays more than any other person at the club and doesn't really have and weaknesses in his game. A 2000 level strong looper beats him more times than not because he reads the spin well and isn't fooled by anything. I have little doubt he'd fare better against higher people with inverted on both sides, however it keeps him at this same level.


True. If your guy can counterloop more or less anything then he can overpower the LP deception as well, I guess.

I am just saying that having really hard-sponged rubbers (not that a lot of people play with those) helps a lot. When I used to play with Reactor Tornado (which is the hardest-sponged rubber I ever used, must be around 44-45 DHS scale), I had LP/anti players ask me after the game smth along the lines "how come you didn't care whether I used my inverted side or LP side, it didn't seem to have any effect on your strokes".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/30/2010 at 3:22pm
Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:

Not to mention that even against not-so-high rated players who use SP or hard-sponged rubbers, LPs do not cause that much confusion and therefore a 2100-2200 rated LP player might find himself losing to a 1900-2000 inverted or SP player simply because the other guy is not bothered by LP deception factor.


The highest rated regular at my club is a 2100 rated combination user, plays away from the table with long pips and tenergy on a fast blade using location and twiddling. He's been more or less at the same level though for the last 10+ years though even though he plays more than any other person at the club and doesn't really have and weaknesses in his game. A 2000 level strong looper beats him more times than not because he reads the spin well and isn't fooled by anything. I have little doubt he'd fare better against higher people with inverted on both sides, however it keeps him at this same level.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/30/2010 at 3:10pm
Not to mention that even against not-so-high rated players who use SP or hard-sponged rubbers, LPs do not cause that much confusion and therefore a 2100-2200 rated LP player might find himself losing to a 1900-2000 inverted or SP player simply because the other guy is not bothered by LP deception factor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/30/2010 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by bravefest bravefest wrote:

Originally posted by gjairmy gjairmy wrote:

Originally posted by bravefest bravefest wrote:

I'm not impressed by anyone attaining a high rating using long pips unless you're a heavy chopper.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who's sitting there blocking with long pips is using equipment to make up for a lack of fundamentals.

I've seen it happen over and over:  a player with good footwork and swings loses to a fatass who stands there and lets his junk rubber do all the work for him.


Despite their lack of fundamentals, there is no need to insult anyone. There is a chinese saying that goes something along the lines of...if you lose to someone because of lack of skills, then don't complain". And get this...there are no shortcuts in life.

If you, or me, or anyone loses consistently to a particular style..then it just means that we are slow at adapting, and quick adaptation/adjustment is an essential skill in table tennis...if u don't have that skill and they beat you fair and square then don't whine about it. Learn their style and overcome it...if u can't then u know that you are limited in skills (and this alone should motivate u to improve your table tennis basics)


Well, if you didn't understand my point, let me rephrase:

I've tested out long pips.  They are easy to use.  I win against players who are much much much better than I am when I use long pips.  I don't deserve those wins because they don't take any skill/practice.

If you think it's fair to let obviously cheap equipment (and it may not be 'cheap' at world class level, but it sure is cheap at lower levels) win matches for you, then you don't have a very developed sense of fairness.

And by the way, it would seem with the ban of frictionless long pips by the ITTF, the governing body of table tennis would seem to agree with me to a limited extent.
Long pips will help you to get to a certain level faster but they are actually a handicap once you reach a certain level.. There's only a handful of long pips blocker at the table above 2200 level.. If you think that you can play 2200 level by blocking with long pips on the backhand, I'd like to see that... Again, there is no doubt that pips help you at LOWER levels but after a certain level, the rubber is not going to win you anything as players know exactly what the rubber does and are not surprised by it..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/30/2010 at 1:28pm
Originally posted by nathanso nathanso wrote:

Don't forget Rocky Wang, currently USATT 2381.[/QUOTE]
 
Rocky is playing short pips, at least when I played him at the Cary Cup.. That was a close match...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/01/2010 at 12:30am
Originally posted by roundrobin roundrobin wrote:

The one exception here is at the very early beginners stage were LP (and not only frictionless, but all LP) might give a small advantage to the user, but that is probably more because the LP player is focusing on keeping the ball on the table, while the double inverted player tries to play like he is Wang Liqin him self, mindlessly attacking everything, strikes him self out of the game and then blame the opponents pips.


Bingo!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/31/2010 at 7:35pm
The one exception here is at the very early beginners stage were LP (and not only frictionless, but all LP) might give a small advantage to the user, but that is probably more because the LP player is focusing on keeping the ball on the table, while the double inverted player tries to play like he is Wang Liqin him self, mindlessly attacking everything, strikes him self out of the game and then blame the opponents pips.


Bingo!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/31/2010 at 6:46pm
Originally posted by bravefest bravefest wrote:


Well congrats on receiving the IDIOT AWARD for not understanding any part of what I said.I specifically pointed out that long pips are not cheap at world class level, and I would be perfectly willing to admit they are a disadvantage at that stage. At the level of the casual player, on the other hand, long pips are considered cheap by many who play with and against them. If your opinion is: "anyone who beats me in a table tennis match is better than I am in every aspect of the game" - well, it's your right to have that mindset.My opinion is that players at a low level can and very often do use long pips to compensate for not learning correct technique. Is the guy playing against WS in the video a good player? If he has a 2300 rating, then yes, he probably is. On the other hand, his form looks worse than two players (1900 and 2000) I saw recently going head to head.


The Idiot award, is that the one handed out by last years winner?

I mean, with a line like this:

"anyone who beats me in a table tennis match is better than I am in every aspect of the game"

it sounds possible, cause when was it said that the winner needed to be better in every aspect of the game? You might be better then me stroke by stroke, but using a horrible tactic and loss. If so, then I'm the better player, it is a simple as that.

I fail to understand why so many people are concerned with what their opponents use. Focus on your own equipment and learn how to handle it to it's best and let other use what they think suits them the best. If you are the better player, you will win regardless of what they use.

The one exception here is at the very early beginners stage were LP (and not only frictionless, but all LP) might give a small advantage to the user, but that is probably more because the LP player is focusing on keeping the ball on the table, while the double inverted player tries to play like he is Wang Liqin him self, mindlessly attacking everything, strikes him self out of the game and then blame the opponents pips.

Frictionless pips are the easiest to play against, because the lack the element of surprise. Sure, I can still lose to players using it, but not because they use them, but because they are better players then I am.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr.ChubbToMaTo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/31/2010 at 6:32pm
Yes I agree!
Hope ya all starts to play with Yellow Candles in your shorts, just like Xang Jing from afrika. Oh yea, he got lots of crazy ideeas. Maybe thats why he is so good?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/31/2010 at 6:30pm
Originally posted by bravefest bravefest wrote:

Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

Originally posted by bravefest bravefest wrote:


If you think it's fair to let obviously cheap equipment (and it may not be 'cheap' at world class level, but it sure is cheap at lower levels) win matches for you, then you don't have a very developed sense of fairness.
 
Cheap? Fairness?
 
This is someone has never read Sirlin's playing to win, otherwise he would understand and recognize scrub mentality.
 
 
The first step to evolving past the scrub phase is acknowledging it.
 
As a low level player, I realize that I am such, but enjoy the challenge of figuring out my opponents game.
 
It's part of what makes TT interesting, year after year, and opponent after opponent. If the game is reduced to a simple "whoever attacks first wins", the quality of gameplay and overall luster of the sport declines.
 
In the frictionless days, having an opponent act as a backboard to my loops was actually very interesting, and a great "classroom experience". It was an opportunity to learn (i came to better understand how much spin i was creating with each stroke).
 
So if you make the claim that frictionless rubber is "cheap", it simply demonstrates your lack of understanding of spin more than anything else.
 
Your voice echoes the oft-heard chorus of low to mid level intermediate players (usually in the US1400-1800 range) who can generate powerful spinny attacks to finish the point against other inverted players, but frequently have minimal understanding of overall strategies against different styles.
 
And in closing, I would still rather play against someone with traditional frictionless pips than the popular "treated" varieties (the ones with spinless tops, and sticky pip sides) because at my level, true frictionless behavior is far more comprehensible; I acknowledge that I lack the technique and the understanding to deal with the variability of treated pips. Re-Legalizing them would present a great stepping stone to further my understanding of the game.


Well congrats on receiving the IDIOT AWARD for not understanding any part of what I said.

I specifically pointed out that long pips are not cheap at world class level, and I would be perfectly willing to admit they are a disadvantage at that stage.  At the level of the casual player, on the other hand, long pips are considered cheap by many who play with and against them. 

If your opinion is: "anyone who beats me in a table tennis match is better than I am in every aspect of the game" - well, it's your right to have that mindset.

My opinion is that players at a low level can and very often do use long pips to compensate for not learning correct technique. 

Is the guy playing against WS in the video a good player?  If he has a 2300 rating, then yes, he probably is.  On the other hand, his form looks worse than two players (1900 and 2000) I saw recently going head to head.


"That guy" has a 2215 rating and will be adjusted upwards after his recent performance at Cary Cup.  And yes, he is a "good" player.

Some lower level players do use long pips to mask their weaknesses and try to get some undeserved wins.  The same can be said of countless barely-above-basement-level players who rely on spinny serves, spinny pushes and spinny loops to get most of their points against garage players.  That's not the fault of the rubber they chose to use.  It's the player's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bravefest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/31/2010 at 6:23pm
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

Originally posted by bravefest bravefest wrote:


If you think it's fair to let obviously cheap equipment (and it may not be 'cheap' at world class level, but it sure is cheap at lower levels) win matches for you, then you don't have a very developed sense of fairness.
 
Cheap? Fairness?
 
This is someone has never read Sirlin's playing to win, otherwise he would understand and recognize scrub mentality.
 
 
The first step to evolving past the scrub phase is acknowledging it.
 
As a low level player, I realize that I am such, but enjoy the challenge of figuring out my opponents game.
 
It's part of what makes TT interesting, year after year, and opponent after opponent. If the game is reduced to a simple "whoever attacks first wins", the quality of gameplay and overall luster of the sport declines.
 
In the frictionless days, having an opponent act as a backboard to my loops was actually very interesting, and a great "classroom experience". It was an opportunity to learn (i came to better understand how much spin i was creating with each stroke).
 
So if you make the claim that frictionless rubber is "cheap", it simply demonstrates your lack of understanding of spin more than anything else.
 
Your voice echoes the oft-heard chorus of low to mid level intermediate players (usually in the US1400-1800 range) who can generate powerful spinny attacks to finish the point against other inverted players, but frequently have minimal understanding of overall strategies against different styles.
 
And in closing, I would still rather play against someone with traditional frictionless pips than the popular "treated" varieties (the ones with spinless tops, and sticky pip sides) because at my level, true frictionless behavior is far more comprehensible; I acknowledge that I lack the technique and the understanding to deal with the variability of treated pips. Re-Legalizing them would present a great stepping stone to further my understanding of the game.


Well congrats on receiving the IDIOT AWARD for not understanding any part of what I said.

I specifically pointed out that long pips are not cheap at world class level, and I would be perfectly willing to admit they are a disadvantage at that stage.  At the level of the casual player, on the other hand, long pips are considered cheap by many who play with and against them. 

If your opinion is: "anyone who beats me in a table tennis match is better than I am in every aspect of the game" - well, it's your right to have that mindset.

My opinion is that players at a low level can and very often do use long pips to compensate for not learning correct technique. 

Is the guy playing against WS in the video a good player?  If he has a 2300 rating, then yes, he probably is.  On the other hand, his form looks worse than two players (1900 and 2000) I saw recently going head to head.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nightcrawler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/31/2010 at 1:18am
pretty cool, i was surprised. The poor american guy, Schlager wasn't even moving lol.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nathanso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/29/2010 at 3:48pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by kenneyy88 kenneyy88 wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

I'm the 2ndhighest rated non attacking long pips blocker in the country and the 6th highest rated long pips blocker including offensive blockers who use their forehand a lot.
Who are the other 5 long pip blockers? John Wetzler..., richard mcafee?,


Richard McAfee is one spot below me...


Here's the top 10 list


Sakda Timsuwan (2432)(WA) (looper who mixes in lp blocks)Rob Van Lier (2397) (CA) (looper/attacker who mixes in lp blocks)John Mark Wetzler (2386)(PA) (chop-blocker with a big forehand)Li, Zhi-Ming (2306) (MI) (penhold long pips blocker)Robert Shahnazari (2230)(CA) (pushblocker who attacks with the pips and also forehand)Olivier Mader (2207)(FL) (non attacking pushblocker - backhand oriented)Richard McAfee (2198)(CO) (allround long pips blocker/hitter/attacker)Peter Chen (2180)(CA) (penhold long pips blocker)William Lin (2143)(CA) (offensive long pips blocker and short pips hitter - twiddles)

Dickie Flieisher (approx. 2307) is not on the list as his game is mainly a long pips attacking and not blocking game. He does block but he usually attacks.. This list only includes players whose main stroke on the backhand is their push/block.. His style is basically a short pips style using medium pips..
Don't forget Rocky Wang, currently USATT 2381.
BBC, JOOLA Express Ultra, Dr Neubauer Troublemaker OX
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/29/2010 at 2:51pm
Long pips should not be used as one's main weapon... Rather, it should be viewed as a blunt instrument to be used in combination with a sharp and powerful weapon... Sort of like your shield to your sword.  Many choose to use two swords in a gladiator fight, but a few like us prefer not too.  Big%20smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/29/2010 at 1:58pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:


Originally posted by Speedplay Speedplay wrote:

.. since it is so easy for beginners to glue on a sheet of LP and improve their level at once, they seem to think this applies to all levels, which it certainly don't.
This is very true, and players like this are really easy to beat, but I suppose they would be with inverted too. But the inverted player at that same level would find the LP player very difficult.


I played my last tournament with long pips on my backhand and it didn't help me beat anyone I wouldn't have already beat. I played a guy in groups that I played in a rating event earlier and between the events we hit around and I explained the fundamentals of how to deal with long pips and its effects because he had never seen it before and he did much better the second time around though I still won. But long pips didnt help me beat anyone I wouldn't have already beaten and was a hindrance to me due to my only having used them for 2 months against some people. But above say, 1250 or so, people aren't really phased by long pips, you just have to read the spin and pay attention more...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/29/2010 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by Speedplay Speedplay wrote:

.. since it is so easy for beginners to glue on a sheet of LP and improve their level at once, they seem to think this applies to all levels, which it certainly don't.


This is very true, and players like this are really easy to beat, but I suppose they would be with inverted too.  But the inverted player at that same level would find the LP player very difficult.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/29/2010 at 1:41pm
Originally posted by Speedplay Speedplay wrote:

Baal, I'm sure she was impressive, but I'm also sure she have been working with her pips, learning how to cover up for some of the weaknesses that pips have and this is my point, to get to the next level with pips, you need to work as hard as you would with inverted. Unfortunately, since it is so easy for beginners to glue on a sheet of LP and improve their level at once, they seem to think this applies to all levels, which it certainly don't.


Speedplay, you are right about everything, I agree completely.  I actually asked her why she started using LP and she laughed and told me that her coach thought her style was so ugly as a kid that he couldn't stand to look at it, so he brought her a paddle with LP and inverted on it and started to coach her this way.  She said it made her mad so she worked hard.  Even with all that effort there were some liabilities in her style, I was just not good enough to exploit them, but someone in the 2500-2600 range would have no problem.  Still, nobody can be as good as she is with ANY rubber without working hard.  My point is that if someone has done that, and has really learned to play with LP, they are really really tough.  People are as good as they are, and it makes no sense to attribute  to equipment what is really a result of hard work and talent.  It is possible to be really really good with LP and not be a chopper, like Deng Yaping. But you better be talented and work hard. I agree with Speedplay that slapping on a sheet of LP can get you from 1300 to 1700 quicker than many other things you can do.  After that, not so easy, and a 2200 LP player may look really awkward and if you are anywhere in that same rating level you better be prepared for a mentally exhausting battle.
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