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Warning about Paypal as gift (friends and family)

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Baal View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07/17/2017 at 2:53pm
Another user has used the PayPal Friends and Family option to buy a blade that as yet he has not received.  He has no recourse and will not get his money back. 

Be smart.  Don't use the "Friends and Family" option (the gift option).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/12/2017 at 3:29am
Why would a buyer give up all protection to save a few bucks? Are you nuts?

If you don't want to do it for yourself, do it for your moderator, who has to referee disputes. It's not fun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2016 at 11:16am
Another member has gotten into a jam using PayPal gift option with a new member here who is probably a scammer.

Be careful! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/09/2015 at 9:19pm
Several buyers managed to avoid being ripped off by our latest scammer because they took my advice and did not use Paypal as a gift (friends and family option).

As they say in boxing, "Protect yourselves at all times".  Good advice.

They also say, "Obey my commands at all times".  That is also good advice!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/02/2015 at 10:51am
Seriously, do not use the Paypal gift option.  Even if someone has what appears to be good feedback here, you are taking a risk. 

The last couple of days we have another example of someone who paid by the Paypal gift option and is now unhappy because he appears to be out several hundred US dollars in what looks pretty  convincingly like a scam from someone who had made successful transactions here with other people. 

Circumstances change.  Someone who has had successful transactions in the past may still do something unexpected.

I think the people here who buy and sell the most, the most reliable people, the ones who you really can count on here to be completely honest, would agree with me on this.  Don't use the paypal gift option.

Sellers, if for reasons Cole mentions above you are concerned about shipping to countries where you cannot track the package, do not sell to people in those countries. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Henry0608 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/04/2015 at 6:10pm
Good topic. Pay pal by friend should not recommend for buyers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/16/2015 at 10:23am
yeah, that's silly
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/15/2015 at 12:07am
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

I don't think sellers are always doing this because of the 3.5% fee.  I think they're doing it because paypal offers them no protection at all on international shipments that are untraceable.

For example, I've lost a lot of packages to India and a few to Israel and Turkey, and a couple to South America.  There is no postal tracking to those countries.  Therefore, the buyer is free to claim they never got it and paypal will immediately refund their money upon complaint.

However many sellers you may think are out there ripping people off, I can promise you there's 10x the number of buyers.  In other instances, I can imagine the buyer gets frustrated over not receiving the package.  They file a claim or the sender refunds on request.  Legit at the time.

Then the package shows up from customs a month or two later.  There's no tracking.  How many customers are going to be honest enough to tell the seller that so far after the refund.  In my experience, exactly none.

I've been called a racist against a number of countries.  Sorry, it's not the country I'm prejudice against.  I just don't trust their postal systems.  It's a really tough spot for sellers.

So before you make a judgement, put yourself in their place.




Yes, those would be special cases and you would be perfectly justified there.  But people on this forum have been insisting on buyers using paypal as a gift for shipments within North America.  I don't believe that is reasonable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote joshuadn11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/14/2015 at 4:01pm
usually the seller would ask for "gift" or personal/goods because they won't have to pay some fee.

But like the post #angelleye said above, it's good to have at least some tracking number.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ttping85 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/11/2015 at 7:41am
The custom declaration number can give you minimal tracking of your package abroad on uses website even when you didn't pay for tracking. You can't follow the whole shipping process but at least it says when it was shipped, when it left the US and when it was delivered.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/10/2015 at 7:38pm
My only point being, I've asked customers to send as gift before, and there are reasons why. As you say, they can make the decision.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote angelleye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/10/2015 at 12:36am
Well then you're back to the decision of risk vs. reward.  It's far from an unsolvable problem, though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/10/2015 at 12:04am
Nobody wants to pay for that. They want it po cheap but you eat the risk. It's just not feasible for smaller orders.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote angelleye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/09/2015 at 6:56pm
The simple solution to that is to ship with a trackable service.  USPS doesn't track well.  UPS and FedEx do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/09/2015 at 4:23pm
I don't think sellers are always doing this because of the 3.5% fee.  I think they're doing it because paypal offers them no protection at all on international shipments that are untraceable.

For example, I've lost a lot of packages to India and a few to Israel and Turkey, and a couple to South America.  There is no postal tracking to those countries.  Therefore, the buyer is free to claim they never got it and paypal will immediately refund their money upon complaint.

However many sellers you may think are out there ripping people off, I can promise you there's 10x the number of buyers.  In other instances, I can imagine the buyer gets frustrated over not receiving the package.  They file a claim or the sender refunds on request.  Legit at the time.

Then the package shows up from customs a month or two later.  There's no tracking.  How many customers are going to be honest enough to tell the seller that so far after the refund.  In my experience, exactly none.

I've been called a racist against a number of countries.  Sorry, it's not the country I'm prejudice against.  I just don't trust their postal systems.  It's a really tough spot for sellers.

So before you make a judgement, put yourself in their place.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommyzai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/14/2014 at 12:33pm
I no longer pay as $ to friends or family or ask others to pay me in this fashion unless they are friends or family. I should mention, however, there are a handful of MYTT members that I consider friends, many of which have either visited me or I visited them . . . Guangdong, Vancouver, Seattle, Portland, New York, Vegas, etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2014 at 12:40am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Protect yourself at all times, and if you have doubts about a seller don't make a deal.  Many of the people who sell here have long track records and you can find threads about them.  These are people who are scrupulously honest.  Be careful with people who are new to the forum or for whom there is not much history.  Do not use the Paypal gift option with people you do not know well.


+1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2014 at 12:38am
Protect yourself at all times, and if you have doubts about a seller don't make a deal.  Many of the people who sell here have long track records and you can find threads about them.  These are people who are scrupulously honest.  Be careful with people who are new to the forum or for whom there is not much history.  Do not use the Paypal gift option with people you do not know well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2014 at 12:50pm
Check the "warning about scam" thread above this one for a case study.  See pages 2 and 3.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kitzter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/10/2014 at 10:36pm
Hi,

I think if payment is done by invoice/bill, there will be buyers protection. Correct me if i'm wrong.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommyzai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/08/2014 at 12:00am
Thanks, Viva!
And, I agree with you. Avoid $ as friend/family if you don't know the person . . . be smart!


Edited by tommyzai - 08/08/2014 at 12:14am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote viva Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/07/2014 at 11:40pm
Originally posted by tommyzai tommyzai wrote:

I will no longer ask other members, unless it's one of my close buddies, to pay as $ to family/friends. It places both parties in an awkward position.

Tommy if I ever have a transaction with you I will pay as family/friend to you and a few other respected members. Trouble arises with new people trying to scam everyone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommyzai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/07/2014 at 9:13pm
I will no longer ask other members, unless it's one of my close buddies, to pay as $ to family/friends. It places both parties in an awkward position.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/07/2014 at 1:00pm
Actually, most sales here are at about -10% ebay prices (ebay fee). If someone sells at ebay, they need to pay paypal fee as well. So sellers do not lose money at all. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/07/2014 at 10:20am
People can work it out as part of the negotiation.  But I would still suggest to a buyer that if a seller is demanding payment as a gift, it is an unreasonable request. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/07/2014 at 9:31am
What is the cost to seller if buyer pays as payment?  I propose seller add 2% to what they expect to receive to the cost, kind of split the cost with the buyer.  As a buyer I don't mind paying 2% extra for a peace of mind, specially by paying  as gift I already have to add some fee, so the 2% is nothing.  As a seller you may get a little less than if the payment is as gift, but on the other hand you may get more expose to new buyers.

Edited by mhnh007 - 08/07/2014 at 9:32am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote angelleye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/07/2014 at 7:40am
Originally posted by Antuan Antuan wrote:

Originally posted by kindof99 kindof99 wrote:

if buyer uses cc to pay as a gift,the buyer needs to pay fee.
If you pay as gift there is no fee.Wink

There is when you specify cc as the funding source.  The only way to avoid the fee with personal or gift payments is to pay with PayPal or bank funds.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Antuan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/07/2014 at 6:34am
Originally posted by kindof99 kindof99 wrote:

if buyer uses cc to pay as a gift,the buyer needs to pay fee.
If you pay as gift there is no fee.Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/07/2014 at 6:14am
if buyer uses cc to pay as a gift,the buyer needs to pay fee.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/07/2014 at 1:40am
Originally posted by the_theologian the_theologian wrote:

I wonder if this would cause a reversal of risk... where trusted sellers would now have to worry about buyers that would scam.


Yes, it could have that effect, but would someone be able to constantly dispute every time they buy something?  You have definitely identified something that we have to also be aware of.  At the end of the day, this is the internet, and you enter into transactions here at your own risk.  The moderators and owner of this forum are not responsible for the risks that you take here.  We do our best to identify and ban scammers and people who cause problems, but our ability to do that has limits. 

Also, this is another reason why we are not making this a hard and fast rule. 
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