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Hurricane 3 both sides with hard and fast blade

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2019 at 11:21pm
Originally posted by Fulanodetal Fulanodetal wrote:

""Such a useless post" - a very nice comment.  BTW he didn't say 37 deg Neo is readily available in the mkt - his reference to ML using it is for comparative purposes."

Hi did say this though:

"Just get 37 deg H3N or yinhe Mercury 2 medium (37 deg) which is very similar."

Which definitely implies that there is a 37 deg H3N available somewhere. Meaning, a person reading it might reasonably interpret the line in such a way. It's all in the syntax of the phrase. If he meant something else, Hozuki should have written it differently.

FdT

well observed, it was both for comparative purpose and an implication for the possibility to buy it at that hardness.


Edited by Hozuki - 10/30/2019 at 11:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2019 at 7:02am
Originally posted by Hozuki Hozuki wrote:

Originally posted by DLC1325 DLC1325 wrote:

Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

...

Ok, where to get 37 deg neo? Where? Link please. Will be much appreciated!


Also, robin.w had them for sale at one point. I bought 2 from him. Not sure if he still has any.

I'm late to the party, but DLC pretty much said it already. Provincial H3N is available at 37 deg.
Just a bit pricey, sadly not 37 in regular commercial.

I think price is not that bad. Obviously not Mercury 2 :)

 Thanks heaps for the link. That is really useful post
ZJK ALC, FH: Sanwei Target National, BH: DHS Skyline 3-60 H37
Viscaria ALC, FH: DHS Hurricane3 H38 deg, BH: DHS Hurricane3 Neo H39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2019 at 7:11am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

I use Hurricane 3-50 on BH. There are definitely a lot of advantages with tacky rubber especially with pushing and very spinny loops. 

How is 3-50 playing on BH? At some point I had troubles with FH, especially playing not boosted H3. So I thought to get something softer lift throw angle. Ordered 3-60 H37 for FH hoping to reduce errors. Very quickly realised that 3-60 is playing so nice on BH so I left it there. After sheet polished to dead I was looking for replacement and deciding between 3-50 or 3-60. Ended up with what I used previously - 3-60 H37. 

So just curious how do you find 3-50 on the BH?
ZJK ALC, FH: Sanwei Target National, BH: DHS Skyline 3-60 H37
Viscaria ALC, FH: DHS Hurricane3 H38 deg, BH: DHS Hurricane3 Neo H39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2019 at 7:28am
Originally posted by Hozuki Hozuki wrote:


Cool, your BH must be better than most chinese pros.
In any other case, it might work somehow but will be far from optimal.

Not really better than pro and I dont care much about pro, these guys can win me using fry pan having their eyes closed, no doubts.

I know why you are saying this - there is some sort of common understanding that BH rubber should be 2 degrees softer than FH since BH strokes are weaker due to human anatomy. It all makes sense. Hurricane 3 series rubbers in H39 (regardless Neo or older) they are so good at grabbing a ball and also they are faster than H37. 
The deal here is match throw angle to player skills. So H39 yet alone is not a factor, my understanding that blade is contributing to through angle much more than rubber. H39 on the right blade can be very playable setup, especially for BH dominant ppl
ZJK ALC, FH: Sanwei Target National, BH: DHS Skyline 3-60 H37
Viscaria ALC, FH: DHS Hurricane3 H38 deg, BH: DHS Hurricane3 Neo H39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2019 at 8:05am
Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

I use Hurricane 3-50 on BH. There are definitely a lot of advantages with tacky rubber especially with pushing and very spinny loops. 

How is 3-50 playing on BH? At some point I had troubles with FH, especially playing not boosted H3. So I thought to get something softer lift throw angle. Ordered 3-60 H37 for FH hoping to reduce errors. Very quickly realised that 3-60 is playing so nice on BH so I left it there. After sheet polished to dead I was looking for replacement and deciding between 3-50 or 3-60. Ended up with what I used previously - 3-60 H37. 

So just curious how do you find 3-50 on the BH?

I use unboosted H3-50 on BH. It has some insane spin generation capability, you will find that people just outright miss blocking your loops because of the insane spin generated. Same goes with the chiquita. You can do loaded pushes very well and the control is really amazing. 

The problem comes with handling spin, sometimes it's very tiring to loop with it because it grabs onto the incoming spin too well, and you always have to put in a lot of effort to overcome the incoming spin. With less tacky rubbers, it's easier to neutralize spin so you can play more relaxed and easier and speedier. 

TLDR, H3-50 will allow you a lot more spin and quality in your loops at the expense of ease of use and a more fluid game. 

-------
Tacky rubber lover :)

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FH: Hurricane 8
BH: Hurricane 3-50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2019 at 8:31am
Unless you are playing in very clean environment, tacky rubbers get dusted after few games and then spin caused by tackiness drops until cleaned. It kind of evens out.

Xiom Omega Asia 5 is not tacky at all, but generating good spin. I am not sure if it is so called tensor, but at least whatever spin it can do, that spin stays consistent and not affected by dust. Yep, it was much easier to play with it. I had it on FH for 100 hours until grip got lost. Concluded that using rubber which is so much forgiving leads to bad habits and lazy shots. But your are right, I remember returning late balls being very stretched and out of balance, me and my opponent were both surprised :)) Also it is $$$ pricy

Btw I can send you K2 red used for 2 hrs or less. Cut into FH viscaria size. It has high pop throw angle when on Viscaria, medium tacky topsheet. Well made hybrid. It is matter of taste. PM me if interested.


Edited by fmarek - 10/31/2019 at 8:36am
ZJK ALC, FH: Sanwei Target National, BH: DHS Skyline 3-60 H37
Viscaria ALC, FH: DHS Hurricane3 H38 deg, BH: DHS Hurricane3 Neo H39
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tom View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2019 at 9:39am
Originally posted by Fulanodetal Fulanodetal wrote:

""Such a useless post" - a very nice comment.  BTW he didn't say 37 deg Neo is readily available in the mkt - his reference to ML using it is for comparative purposes."

Hi did say this though:

"Just get 37 deg H3N or yinhe Mercury 2 medium (37 deg) which is very similar."

Which definitely implies that there is a 37 deg H3N available somewhere. Meaning, a person reading it might reasonably interpret the line in such a way. It's all in the syntax of the phrase. If he meant something else, Hozuki should have written it differently.

FdT
I missed the first part of the sentence.  This is besides the point, but I am using 3 H3 37degrees including a H3N

Edited by tom - 10/31/2019 at 3:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hozuki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2019 at 3:18pm
Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Originally posted by Hozuki Hozuki wrote:


Cool, your BH must be better than most chinese pros.
In any other case, it might work somehow but will be far from optimal.

Not really better than pro and I dont care much about pro, these guys can win me using fry pan having their eyes closed, no doubts.

I know why you are saying this - there is some sort of common understanding that BH rubber should be 2 degrees softer than FH since BH strokes are weaker due to human anatomy. It all makes sense. Hurricane 3 series rubbers in H39 (regardless Neo or older) they are so good at grabbing a ball and also they are faster than H37. 
The deal here is match throw angle to player skills. So H39 yet alone is not a factor, my understanding that blade is contributing to through angle much more than rubber. H39 on the right blade can be very playable setup, especially for BH dominant ppl

I agree with some of this. But IMO, what you neglect to see is that for every hardness of rubber, there is an optimal gear, which requires a specific range of impact strength. While a H39 rubber has higher maximum speed and spin than a H37 rubber, it doesn't automatically mean that you can constantly get higher spin and speed, as you would need to hit the ball consistently with a higher force.
And since the BH rubber is needed to open the game with a flip, it makes sense for it to be somewhat soft, otherwise there would be little control when trying to accelerate a very slow ball.
Of course you can say that this is also possible with topsheet alone, but then you would have to play against the entire incoming spin, run into the possibility of hitting the edge, also you wouldn't be able to play a fast flip (compared to using soft rubber) and when there is too much humidity you can forget that topsheet stroke altogether.

And that's just a few of the reasons why any BH rubber over 37 / 47,5 deg hardness is a bad idea.
I haven't even touched upon service receiving, lobbing or smashing, which all suck.
If one is not at least 1800 TTR / 2200 USATT playing such a hard rubber on BH (assuming a standard looping game) then I can only call him out as sub-optimal and inefficient.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2019 at 7:54pm
Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Unless you are playing in very clean environment, tacky rubbers get dusted after few games and then spin caused by tackiness drops until cleaned. It kind of evens out.

Xiom Omega Asia 5 is not tacky at all, but generating good spin. I am not sure if it is so called tensor, but at least whatever spin it can do, that spin stays consistent and not affected by dust. Yep, it was much easier to play with it. I had it on FH for 100 hours until grip got lost. Concluded that using rubber which is so much forgiving leads to bad habits and lazy shots. But your are right, I remember returning late balls being very stretched and out of balance, me and my opponent were both surprised :)) Also it is $$$ pricy

Btw I can send you K2 red used for 2 hrs or less. Cut into FH viscaria size. It has high pop throw angle when on Viscaria, medium tacky topsheet. Well made hybrid. It is matter of taste. PM me if interested.

I clean my rubber every time after use and use a tacky sheet for protection so the tack lasts a very very long time. H3-50 is actually also soft sponge and grippy (as well as being very tacky), it feels very different from the traditional Chinese hard tacky rubber. That combination makes for some insane dwell time and spin production. I've used it when it's lost its tack, it still behaves like a grippy rubber which still plays very well. 

Because the H3-50 is dirt cheap I just change it when I feel like it's lost some performance. 

From my experience playing with H3-50 results in less rallies because of the increased shot quality I have, but is also more tiring and I think I make a bit more mistakes opening with it due to its spin sensitivity. But yes it forces you to play better (no lazy shots are allowed pretty much) and makes you a better player. 
-------
Tacky rubber lover :)

Stiga Clipper CR

FH: Hurricane 8
BH: Hurricane 3-50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2019 at 2:31am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Unless you are playing in very clean environment, tacky rubbers get dusted after few games and then spin caused by tackiness drops until cleaned. It kind of evens out.

Xiom Omega Asia 5 is not tacky at all, but generating good spin. I am not sure if it is so called tensor, but at least whatever spin it can do, that spin stays consistent and not affected by dust. Yep, it was much easier to play with it. I had it on FH for 100 hours until grip got lost. Concluded that using rubber which is so much forgiving leads to bad habits and lazy shots. But your are right, I remember returning late balls being very stretched and out of balance, me and my opponent were both surprised :)) Also it is $$$ pricy

Btw I can send you K2 red used for 2 hrs or less. Cut into FH viscaria size. It has high pop throw angle when on Viscaria, medium tacky topsheet. Well made hybrid. It is matter of taste. PM me if interested.

I clean my rubber every time after use and use a tacky sheet for protection so the tack lasts a very very long time. H3-50 is actually also soft sponge and grippy (as well as being very tacky), it feels very different from the traditional Chinese hard tacky rubber. That combination makes for some insane dwell time and spin production. I've used it when it's lost its tack, it still behaves like a grippy rubber which still plays very well. 

Because the H3-50 is dirt cheap I just change it when I feel like it's lost some performance. 

From my experience playing with H3-50 results in less rallies because of the increased shot quality I have, but is also more tiring and I think I make a bit more mistakes opening with it due to its spin sensitivity. But yes it forces you to play better (no lazy shots are allowed pretty much) and makes you a better player. 

Ive had almost the exact same experience with Skyline 3-60!
I have so much more confidence in my BH now, everyone has been asking me what I changed in my game that makes me so stable, powerful and spinny? Really, all I did was slow down my rubbers and I’m able to exert more of my physical strength into the shots with confidence. I have much more linear control and this is awesome for placement and shot selection. It’s really a game changer. 

Has anyone compared H3-50 to S3-60 directly yet?

I have a sheet of 3-50 waiting... but I really can’t see myself wanting anything other than 3-60 on my BH right now. Does anyone think it’s better in any aspect?
-Eric
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2019 at 2:59am
Originally posted by alas alas wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Unless you are playing in very clean environment, tacky rubbers get dusted after few games and then spin caused by tackiness drops until cleaned. It kind of evens out.

Xiom Omega Asia 5 is not tacky at all, but generating good spin. I am not sure if it is so called tensor, but at least whatever spin it can do, that spin stays consistent and not affected by dust. Yep, it was much easier to play with it. I had it on FH for 100 hours until grip got lost. Concluded that using rubber which is so much forgiving leads to bad habits and lazy shots. But your are right, I remember returning late balls being very stretched and out of balance, me and my opponent were both surprised :)) Also it is $$$ pricy

Btw I can send you K2 red used for 2 hrs or less. Cut into FH viscaria size. It has high pop throw angle when on Viscaria, medium tacky topsheet. Well made hybrid. It is matter of taste. PM me if interested.

I clean my rubber every time after use and use a tacky sheet for protection so the tack lasts a very very long time. H3-50 is actually also soft sponge and grippy (as well as being very tacky), it feels very different from the traditional Chinese hard tacky rubber. That combination makes for some insane dwell time and spin production. I've used it when it's lost its tack, it still behaves like a grippy rubber which still plays very well. 

Because the H3-50 is dirt cheap I just change it when I feel like it's lost some performance. 

From my experience playing with H3-50 results in less rallies because of the increased shot quality I have, but is also more tiring and I think I make a bit more mistakes opening with it due to its spin sensitivity. But yes it forces you to play better (no lazy shots are allowed pretty much) and makes you a better player. 

Ive had almost the exact same experience with Skyline 3-60!
I have so much more confidence in my BH now, everyone has been asking me what I changed in my game that makes me so stable, powerful and spinny? Really, all I did was slow down my rubbers and I’m able to exert more of my physical strength into the shots with confidence. I have much more linear control and this is awesome for placement and shot selection. It’s really a game changer. 

Has anyone compared H3-50 to S3-60 directly yet?

I have a sheet of 3-50 waiting... but I really can’t see myself wanting anything other than 3-60 on my BH right now. Does anyone think it’s better in any aspect?

I heard 3-50 was very similar to 3-60. The idea is the same, very tacky topsheet on a spring sponge. And I also have similar game to yours, I'm physically quite strong and can put a lot of power into the ball, so spin and control is a lot more important. You could also do very spinny BH short pushes too which can seriously jam attackers. Opening loops also seem to be very strong with tacky rubbers.

I feel like nontacky rubbers are significantly better for chiquita and rallying  though. I've been testing out TinArc and so far it seems like quite a good compromise..


Edited by blahness - 11/01/2019 at 3:00am
-------
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Stiga Clipper CR

FH: Hurricane 8
BH: Hurricane 3-50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2019 at 3:03am
I feel like 3-60 has improved my Chiquita landing % and spin, but it definitely isn’t as fast as my Chiquita with Rakza 7 or FastArc G1. I also feel like 3-60 is significantly easier. 

I definitely need to train more at that to get the speed up. I think I really have to play more open to drive it more to get any speed. But, as you mentioned, the control and placement are king in our game. Oh, and I forgot to mention I’m a penholder.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmarek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2019 at 11:17am
Originally posted by alas alas wrote:

Has anyone compared H3-50 to S3-60 directly yet?

Not exactly but still good review


ZJK ALC, FH: Sanwei Target National, BH: DHS Skyline 3-60 H37
Viscaria ALC, FH: DHS Hurricane3 H38 deg, BH: DHS Hurricane3 Neo H39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2019 at 11:22am
Originally posted by fmarek fmarek wrote:

Originally posted by alas alas wrote:

Has anyone compared H3-50 to S3-60 directly yet?

Not exactly but still good review



Oh yeah, I’ve read those many times. Thanks anyway. It’s a good reference for others. 

If I remember correctly, he mentions both would be solid on the BH but he favored the 3-60. 


Edited by alas - 11/01/2019 at 11:24am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2019 at 6:59pm
I feel that this idea that the "BH sponge HAS to be soft or softer than your FH rubber" is false. Everyone has a different technique. I happen to use a hard sponge on my BH and I find it better than using soft sponges. I find that the shots land better and I find this option more consistent and predictable.

There's also user preference.

FdT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patrickhrdlicka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/02/2019 at 2:08pm
When I was playing with an inverted rubber in BH, I preferred hard low-throw rubbers (which probably is why, I was able to switch to short pips without much problems). So, I think 'it depends' on your technique. If your aim is to banana flick very ball, then regular H3 is likely not the best choice for you. If on the other hand you prefer to the drive and block and/or have a fast arm pull for BH topspins, I don't see why it couldn't work. 
Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69419&title=feedback-patrickhrdlicka

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote juanma4080 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/03/2019 at 3:50pm
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