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2019 Team world cup, Nov. 6-10 Japan

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2019 at 12:42pm
When Amelie uses her anti-rubber, taking the ball early and sending the ball deep with high speed - that can give her opponent problems.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2019 at 12:48pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

The plastic ball has set Amelie back a bit...
I'm afraid you are correct on this! I play with frictionless anti as well similar to what Amelie uses and I experienced the same thing. You have to play a lot more active and take the balls earlier. Also the spin reversal is not quite as heavy anymore because there is less incoming spin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maeyang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2019 at 1:09pm
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by jackwong23 jackwong23 wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Kanak beats karlsson to stick another middle finger in the face of people who like to talk mess about his ranking.  In the fifth with Kallberg though... huge game...

yes ,  Kanak gives a middle finger salute to the likes of mykonos and mentortt.
LOL

indeed... clearly these 2 wins are due to his NOT training with the CNT in Los Angeles, good decision Wink
yes,clearly,he is nobody when he faces top Chinese players. Is training with a better team so much rejected by you?If you look down on the training of the Chinese team, please ask him to become the top 1 in the world and win multiple world champions.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2019 at 1:25pm






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zzzuppp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2019 at 1:32pm
Liu Jia (Austria) dropped nearly 80 places in the last set of rankings, from 69 to 147. Not sure why - that's a big drop. Maybe she hasn't played many/any tournaments of late.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2019 at 2:34pm
Originally posted by Matt Pimple Matt Pimple wrote:

I'm not quite sure why you would say this about Amelie. Just because she doesn't loop and plays a different style of game she can't be considered an elite player? She has been as high as 47 in the world and she has beaten some "elite level players" such as Jiang Haijun, Han Ying, Georgina Pota or Zhang Mo. I call that elite!


I have only seen her play this match as well as her teammate.  Maybe they were both having a very, very, very off day but they both making way too many basic mistakes.  Amelie has to be very good to beat the players you mentioned, however today she just looked like she wasn't playing that level.  Could she be injured or sick?


Edited by Lightspin - 11/07/2019 at 2:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mentortt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2019 at 2:58pm
This is the first time I saw Amelia play. She is totally amateur player to me at least from yesterday. Then someone posted her ittf rank. Even her double parter I can see much better than her (rank 100+). There is absolutely no communication. Even they won the point, there is no excitement or clapping. If I am coaching, I will tell just loop, she didn't know how to counter loop. 

I have watched Juan Liu play in real game. It is totally different levels which I called elite.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2019 at 3:15pm
She looks a lot better in this video:


Maybe the new ball composition is throwing her game off or maybe she was sick this event.  In the above video she is very creative and is doing lots of interesting things one would expect of a top level player.  When she played against the American team, something was off. 


Edited by Lightspin - 11/07/2019 at 3:17pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2019 at 3:47pm
Originally posted by zzzuppp zzzuppp wrote:

Liu Jia (Austria) dropped nearly 80 places in the last set of rankings, from 69 to 147. Not sure why - that's a big drop. Maybe she hasn't played many/any tournaments of late.

I believe though I could be wrong that she played the World Cup in 2018 but not in 2019.  So those points left her ranking once the 2019 version of the event was held.  Quadri should experience something similar but less severe after the Men's World Cup this year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2019 at 5:53pm
Liu Jia winning Amy Wang is quite upsetting. In the 5th game the American was down 3-7 then 4-8, came back to 8-8 then at 9-9 she loses 2 points in a row she has the level to win. It happens! Those American girls are so close to the rest of the pack and those defeats are more a sign of their soon to bloom maturity as pro players.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/07/2019 at 6:08pm
Amelie Solja is a legend - ever since her run at the Stanford junior WTTC where she beat Li Xiaodan and won the bronze medal. 

Liu Jia used to be top 20 level but barely trains anymore, focusing on work and family.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpskfec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2019 at 2:39am
ITTF once again shows off its lack of professional video production skills.

USA-China women's live stream on table 1 freezes up just before the match begins, and is replaced by a replay of Japan-Germany men's match.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2019 at 4:03am
POOR CHROMATIC CONTRAST, POOR TELEGENICITY.

The ball is visually vanishing against the table surface. Insufficient contrast of the ball as against the table. It is some huge lapse by the SAN EI designers group.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2019 at 5:48am
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

Liu Jia winning Amy Wang is quite upsetting. In the 5th game the American was down 3-7 then 4-8, came back to 8-8 then at 9-9 she loses 2 points in a row she has the level to win. It happens! Those American girls are so close to the rest of the pack and those defeats are more a sign of their soon to bloom maturity as pro players.
The fact that Amy is right there (a coin toss) with a world class player says a lot. There was some noise about her being chosen for one of the Pan Am tournaments over another player who had one more win at a trial tournament, but I'm glad the coaches are allowed to look at a player's entire body of work and can see her trajectory rather than a single tournament. Now it's all coming to fruition. No doubt we'll see more good things from Amy!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2019 at 6:04am
There is one Egiptian guy, Austria wants him too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2019 at 8:21am
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

Liu Jia winning Amy Wang is quite upsetting. In the 5th game the American was down 3-7 then 4-8, came back to 8-8 then at 9-9 she loses 2 points in a row she has the level to win. It happens! Those American girls are so close to the rest of the pack and those defeats are more a sign of their soon to bloom maturity as pro players.
The fact that Amy is right there (a coin toss) with a world class player says a lot. There was some noise about her being chosen for one of the Pan Am tournaments over another player who had one more win at a trial tournament, but I'm glad the coaches are allowed to look at a player's entire body of work and can see her trajectory rather than a single tournament. Now it's all coming to fruition. No doubt we'll see more good things from Amy!


I am not glad coaches can look at her "whole body of work" at all.  She lost.  Maybe the other player with a better record at the trials would have won.  We will never know.  This has nothing to do with Amy at all.  Things should be done in a well defined and fair manner, not at looking at tea leaves and the future and what might happen.  No one knows what will happen.

If the USATT wants to destroy table tennis in the US, they should keep proceeding with their "picking talent and potential" path they are on now.  Kids and adults who are passed over will just stop playing and do something else.  At least in other sports they have a fair shot, rather than having someone who supposedly can "identify talent" arbitrarily pick or reject them.  

I remember there were two brothers at a club I practiced at.  The head coach of the club had way, way, way more impressive credentials than anyone on the current HPC.  He only wanted to coach one brother because that guy had "talent" and the other brother wasn't supposed to go anywhere.  I remember practicing with the other brother because he didn't have many practice partners.  To make a long story short, the "chosen one" with "so much talent" stopped improving at a certain level.  The hopeless kid made the national team.  In the current environment the kid who eventually earned his way on the national team through the trials would have never made it.   Also if that head coach couldn't tell which brother was eventually going to be national caliber level, I doubt anyone can. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WeebleWobble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2019 at 9:00am
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

POOR CHROMATIC CONTRAST, POOR TELEGENICITY.

The ball is visually vanishing against the table surface. Insufficient contrast of the ball as against the table. It is some huge lapse by the SAN EI designers group.

I agree, table to is too light in color.  I'm guessing these will be the same tables used at the olympics too. :(
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WeebleWobble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2019 at 9:00am
Originally posted by Lightspin Lightspin wrote:

She looks a lot better in this video:


Maybe the new ball composition is throwing her game off or maybe she was sick this event.  In the above video she is very creative and is doing lots of interesting things one would expect of a top level player.  When she played against the American team, something was off. 

She's gained weight since that 2015 match.  Can't help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mentortt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2019 at 9:16am
Gao Jun (US Head coach) interview for world team cup (in chinese with english subtitle).


US team has long way to go. Women team are better than men team (because of training?). China training helps a lot. but it is too short, only two weeks. Kanak is frustrated when he plays with Chinese players. There is nothing he can do. 

After today, it is clear that the TT order didn't change. It becomes asian cups now both men and women. China might get a little challenge from Ito (maybe not). For man's side, I don't see any challenge at all. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2019 at 9:20am
Originally posted by Lightspin Lightspin wrote:

I am not glad coaches can look at her "whole body of work" at all.  She lost.  Maybe the other player with a better record at the trials would have won.  We will never know.  This has nothing to do with Amy at all.  Things should be done in a well defined and fair manner, not at looking at tea leaves and the future and what might happen.  No one knows what will happen.
You speak as if whole body of work is something undesirable.  "Whole body of work" equates to actual results.  Even making it to the main draw of the World Championships is quite a feat for a junior from a table tennis non-powerhouse let alone taking 2 games off FTW.  Or being one of the top ranked juniors in the world.  
Originally posted by Lightspin Lightspin wrote:

If the USATT wants to destroy table tennis in the US, they should keep proceeding with their "picking talent and potential" path they are on now.  Kids and adults who are passed over will just stop playing and do something else.  At least in other sports they have a fair shot, rather than having someone who supposedly can "identify talent" arbitrarily pick or reject them.  
Destroy table tennis in the US?  Both Men's and Women's teams just made it to the Main Draw of the Team World Cup.  We have Lily just beating Miu Hirano at the Women's World Cup.  We have Kanak beating a *very* good player in Kristian Karlson at the TWC.  And yes, even in a loss you can see tremendous progress from Amy (unless you want to take the limited view of well, she lost).  Then, we have Nikhil Kumar with some pockets of success at the Pan Am Games ... wins over Alberto Mino and Gustavo Tsuboi.  USATT politics and financial condition aside, the *teams* are doing just fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlie Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2019 at 10:19am
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

On women's side, USA beat Austria.
Note:  The #1 female player in Austria is Polcanova Sofia who is not in the team.

currently #1 female play in Europe.

as per latest ranking...



Edited by Charlie Brown - 11/08/2019 at 10:20am
*sigh*
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2019 at 10:27am
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by Lightspin Lightspin wrote:

I am not glad coaches can look at her "whole body of work" at all.  She lost.  Maybe the other player with a better record at the trials would have won.  We will never know.  This has nothing to do with Amy at all.  Things should be done in a well defined and fair manner, not at looking at tea leaves and the future and what might happen.  No one knows what will happen.
You speak as if whole body of work is something undesirable.  "Whole body of work" equates to actual results.  Even making it to the main draw of the World Championships is quite a feat for a junior from a table tennis non-powerhouse let alone taking 2 games off FTW.  Or being one of the top ranked juniors in the world.  
Originally posted by Lightspin Lightspin wrote:

If the USATT wants to destroy table tennis in the US, they should keep proceeding with their "picking talent and potential" path they are on now.  Kids and adults who are passed over will just stop playing and do something else.  At least in other sports they have a fair shot, rather than having someone who supposedly can "identify talent" arbitrarily pick or reject them.  
Destroy table tennis in the US?  Both Men's and Women's teams just made it to the Main Draw of the Team World Cup.  We have Lily just beating Miu Hirano at the Women's World Cup.  We have Kanak beating a *very* good player in Kristian Karlson at the TWC.  And yes, even in a loss you can see tremendous progress from Amy (unless you want to take the limited view of well, she lost).  Then, we have Nikhil Kumar with some pockets of success at the Pan Am Games ... wins over Alberto Mino and Gustavo Tsuboi.  USATT politics and financial condition aside, the *teams* are doing just fine.
Clap
Above all we can feel a general team progression where members positively fuel each other to offer an atmosphere of success. They are on the rise, they know it, they want it and they grow it. They truly broke a ceiling and got team USA in the world spotlight. Did they go one day: “OMG can I really do that?” Those moments are so defining for a kid.

They clearly blow a wind of change, let us build windmills, not walls. (Ok sorry, i couldn’t help it, I adapted a coworker‘s quote in her signature, typical motivational HR stuff.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2019 at 11:02am
Originally posted by Lightspin Lightspin wrote:

Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

Liu Jia winning Amy Wang is quite upsetting. In the 5th game the American was down 3-7 then 4-8, came back to 8-8 then at 9-9 she loses 2 points in a row she has the level to win. It happens! Those American girls are so close to the rest of the pack and those defeats are more a sign of their soon to bloom maturity as pro players.
The fact that Amy is right there (a coin toss) with a world class player says a lot. There was some noise about her being chosen for one of the Pan Am tournaments over another player who had one more win at a trial tournament, but I'm glad the coaches are allowed to look at a player's entire body of work and can see her trajectory rather than a single tournament. Now it's all coming to fruition. No doubt we'll see more good things from Amy!


I am not glad coaches can look at her "whole body of work" at all.  She lost.  Maybe the other player with a better record at the trials would have won.  We will never know.  This has nothing to do with Amy at all.  Things should be done in a well defined and fair manner, not at looking at tea leaves and the future and what might happen.  No one knows what will happen.

If the USATT wants to destroy table tennis in the US, they should keep proceeding with their "picking talent and potential" path they are on now.  Kids and adults who are passed over will just stop playing and do something else.  At least in other sports they have a fair shot, rather than having someone who supposedly can "identify talent" arbitrarily pick or reject them.  

I remember there were two brothers at a club I practiced at.  The head coach of the club had way, way, way more impressive credentials than anyone on the current HPC.  He only wanted to coach one brother because that guy had "talent" and the other brother wasn't supposed to go anywhere.  I remember practicing with the other brother because he didn't have many practice partners.  To make a long story short, the "chosen one" with "so much talent" stopped improving at a certain level.  The hopeless kid made the national team.  In the current environment the kid who eventually earned his way on the national team through the trials would have never made it.   Also if that head coach couldn't tell which brother was eventually going to be national caliber level, I doubt anyone can. 

As PFG pointed out, this is a complete distortion of his point.

The main thing is to try to keep players in table tennis.  At this point, it is important to commit to players who are going to play for longer careers.  Continuing to encourage table tennis as an amateur sport without no attempts or path towards professionalism is not going to help the sport.

Results are important and no one is discounting those.  But considering the whole picture is very important.


Edited by NextLevel - 11/08/2019 at 11:03am
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2019 at 11:03am
Originally posted by Charlie Brown Charlie Brown wrote:

Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

On women's side, USA beat Austria.
Note:  The #1 female player in Austria is Polcanova Sofia who is not in the team.
currently #1 female play in Europe.
as per latest ranking...

============================
Good info.
Polcanova Sofia  is also #1 female player in Europe.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlie Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2019 at 11:46am
Originally posted by mentortt mentortt wrote:

Gao Jun (US Head coach) interview for world team cup (in chinese with english subtitle).


US team has long way to go. Women team are better than men team (because of training?). China training helps a lot. but it is too short, only two weeks. Kanak is frustrated when he plays with Chinese players. There is nothing he can do. 

After today, it is clear that the TT order didn't change. It becomes asian cups now both men and women. China might get a little challenge from Ito (maybe not). For man's side, I don't see any challenge at all. 

North America has no table tennis system in place like most European and Asian countries to feed into a "pro" system...those countries have a stable system though school leagues at the youngest level right into club leagues and then into a "pro" system and to some extent funding by both government and private sector with mass market media support/coverage.

North America has clubs that are splintered in collaboration (maybe not the right word), little to no government funding and unstable private sector support...when Gao Jun says "a long way to go"....that's what she means.

Now that the USA has some players in European league (as long as they meet the club's requirements), they will get competition needed to raise their level (if possible-still based on the individual) versus competing among other USA players who have all but much peaked (generalizing here there are oddities among them)

...when that starts to happen only then will North American table tennis players be a global commodity - this is what ITTF North America has to work with.


Edited by Charlie Brown - 11/08/2019 at 11:48am
*sigh*
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2019 at 12:08pm
it is a bit off topic here, but the above discussion about team selection have to take democracatic ideals vs dictatorship into account - end results does not override all.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2019 at 2:11pm
Originally posted by ZingyDNA ZingyDNA wrote:

Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

Is Team World Cup that important to an individual player?
I guess not, because so many #1 player of a country were not there.
Team World Cup has gotta be the least important major. I heard this year it's held in the same venue as the Olympics next year, so I think the biggest reason for most teams to be there is to get used to the venue. Even that is not enough for some players to go Confused
=====================
I agree that it is the least important, I wouldn't even call it a "Major."
Only 12 countries sent a team, far more countries didn't even bother.
No India, Singapore, Mexico, Egypt, Thailand, etc.  Got to have a ton of countries didn't want to bother.


Edited by skip3119 - 11/08/2019 at 2:17pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2019 at 2:47pm
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

Originally posted by ZingyDNA ZingyDNA wrote:

Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

Is Team World Cup that important to an individual player?
I guess not, because so many #1 player of a country were not there.
Team World Cup has gotta be the least important major. I heard this year it's held in the same venue as the Olympics next year, so I think the biggest reason for most teams to be there is to get used to the venue. Even that is not enough for some players to go Confused
=====================
I agree that it is the least important, I wouldn't even call it a "Major."
Only 12 countries sent a team, far more countries didn't even bother.
No India, Singapore, Mexico, Egypt, Thailand, etc.  Got to have a ton of countries didn't want to bother.
It is a 12 team tournament.   I agree that the tournament is not a priority and they may have to rethink how ratings work to revitalize it but it is a tournament for continental champions and the best ranked teams.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zoomersriseup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2019 at 2:54pm
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

POOR CHROMATIC CONTRAST, POOR TELEGENICITY.

The ball is visually vanishing against the table surface. Insufficient contrast of the ball as against the table. It is some huge lapse by the SAN EI designers group.


ok boomer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/08/2019 at 4:26pm
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

it is a bit off topic here, but the above discussion about team selection have to take democracatic ideals vs dictatorship into account - end results does not override all.  

There's nothing democratic about sport - team selection isn't decided by popular vote.
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