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Tips on keeping the shoulders on the same level

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pitigoi View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04/26/2020 at 9:28am
I'm currently making progress on staying on my toes and leaning forward and it helps yet I still do not keep my shoulders level. Any tips on how to correct my bad habit of lowering the playing shoulder during the backswing of FH counterhit? Maybe position of non-playing arm? Head?

Lowering the shoulder is likely a cause of my lower back pain.
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cole_ely View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/26/2020 at 10:53am
if I understand your question correctly I may have the tip from Don Olsen's book that could help. Many people which included me would start with the racket low and try to come up and hit the ball like a Minuteman intercepting a missile. Very difficult to time. The racket should be held high to start, and then it should be placed in the ball path so you can swing forward. Almost such that if you just stop swinging the ball would hit your racket. I don't know that's what came to my mind when I read your question.




Edited by cole_ely - 04/26/2020 at 10:54am
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blahness View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/26/2020 at 7:40pm
Yes it is a cause of lower back pain. 

You do have to lower yourself to loop especially against underspin, and it's either dropping the shoulder (basically involving lumbar bending) or bending more at the knees. If you bend more at the knees you have to make sure that your toes are aligned with the knees at all times when it's bearing load. 

I've made a video to document the hip, knee and feet movement for my FH here: 


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ghostzen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2020 at 6:36am
Some ideas on the forehand counter-hit which might help hopefully.

For the forehand counter hit or basic forehand drive it’s ideally always best to try and keep your racket high and shorten the stroke driving the ball down with a shorter relaxed stroke. You don’t need loads of a backswing for the drive either really or follow-through . Keep your free arm up for balance and control. Try and keep your head and shoulder over the ball if you can and bend your knees a bit. Stay light on your feet. This will stabilize your stroke and also mean you shouldn’t dip your shoulder as you are above the ball driving it. Close the racket angle and adjust to the incoming speed/spin etc.

 

Common mistake are to try and reach for the ball and not wait for it to get to you putting stress on the lower back and making the head drop thus losing control.

Follow-through is longer than needed. Try and stop the counter hit slightly in front of your body. It’s a bit of a waste of time and energy if you follow through too much and can put you off balance and make recovery harder. It’s quite a short stroke.

Tensing the forearm and not letting the stroke flow which will make your shoulder tight and will again hamper the quality of the stroke.

If you can pick a few of these it should stabilize your stroke and also mean you shouldn’t dip your shoulder and over work the back in a position which is not good for you.

This is a consistency stroke with very little if any topspin which is a solid and much needed building block stroke. Normally used as or with a drive/block against a topspin ball.

This is a shot that won’t really be used against a backspin ball ever to be honest as there is very little lift /topspin to take the backspin ball over the net...

Think a drilling or blocking controlling stroke. Which needs quick recovery and is a great link to other strokes like the topspin drive, spin orientated loop or a great link to the smash.

Hope this helps a little.


Cheers

GZ

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Joo Se Kev View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joo Se Kev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2020 at 9:03am
Some good tips here already. One other thing you could try is to examine your footwork as you move into position. You mention that you're making progress on staying low and keeping your weight forward, but try watching your shoulders as you perform a lateral, side-to-side shuffle. If you notice excessive swaying, you could try a basic shuffle drill with a light elastic resistance band around your ribs to provide some resistance. This will help to teach you to stabilize your shoulders.
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ghostzen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2020 at 11:09am
Originally posted by Joo Se Kev Joo Se Kev wrote:

Some good tips here already. One other thing you could try is to examine your footwork as you move into position. You mention that you're making progress on staying low and keeping your weight forward, but try watching your shoulders as you perform a lateral, side-to-side shuffle. If you notice excessive swaying, you could try a basic shuffle drill with a light elastic resistance band around your ribs to provide some resistance. This will help to teach you to stabilize your shoulders.


A nice idea that Joo Se Kev cracking
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cole_ely View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2020 at 8:35pm
Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

Some ideas on the forehand counter-hit which might help hopefully.

For the forehand counter hit or basic forehand drive it’s ideally always best to try and keep your racket high and shorten the stroke driving the ball down with a shorter relaxed stroke. You don’t need loads of a backswing for the drive either really or follow-through . Keep your free arm up for balance and control. Try and keep your head and shoulder over the ball if you can and bend your knees a bit. Stay light on your feet. This will stabilize your stroke and also mean you shouldn’t dip your shoulder as you are above the ball driving it. Close the racket angle and adjust to the incoming speed/spin etc.

 

Common mistake are to try and reach for the ball and not wait for it to get to you putting stress on the lower back and making the head drop thus losing control.

Follow-through is longer than needed. Try and stop the counter hit slightly in front of your body. It’s a bit of a waste of time and energy if you follow through too much and can put you off balance and make recovery harder. It’s quite a short stroke.

Tensing the forearm and not letting the stroke flow which will make your shoulder tight and will again hamper the quality of the stroke.

If you can pick a few of these it should stabilize your stroke and also mean you shouldn’t dip your shoulder and over work the back in a position which is not good for you.

This is a consistency stroke with very little if any topspin which is a solid and much needed building block stroke. Normally used as or with a drive/block against a topspin ball.

This is a shot that won’t really be used against a backspin ball ever to be honest as there is very little lift /topspin to take the backspin ball over the net...

Think a drilling or blocking controlling stroke. Which needs quick recovery and is a great link to other strokes like the topspin drive, spin orientated loop or a great link to the smash.

Hope this helps a little.


Cheers

GZ


This is what I was trying to get at. 
W1 St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b

Please let me know if I can be of assistance.
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pitigoi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pitigoi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2020 at 11:25am
Thanks all for the replies. My son had lessons and used to move his feet/knees/hips as in blahness' video. For my knees, that's too much.

After re-watching my videos (which I do not dare to post for privacy's sake) I saw that the problem first appeared in the rally after a ball that touched the net and went long enough that I could top-spin it back. After that, I was trying to topsin everything, lowering the shoulder.

Big problem is that my footwork is not got enough and will not get much better (I am middle-aged, and will not drill footwork-only). I frequently hit the ball out-of-position, table level and not net-level. And so more topspin is needed.

Last night I was mindful of keeping the shoulders level and my back is not sore! But I also mostly gave up on my previous good habit of watching the ball until it hits the paddle. Without ball, I need to practice turning the head without lowering the shoulder.
Right hand: Stiga Allround NCT (74g) /Rasant Grip max/Talon OX red (total 135g)
Left hand: Stiga Allround WRB (71g)/Vega Europe max/Innova Ultra Light max (total 153g)
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