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Topic ClosedCovid-19 outbreak at USATT's T2 event at ICC

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Covid-19 outbreak at USATT's T2 event at ICC
    Posted: 12/04/2020 at 5:09pm
I just heard that there has been a tremendous Covid-19 outbreak at USATT's T2 qualification tournament at ICC Table Tennis Center which was held at the end of November in Milpitas with more than 30 players.

Obviously several participants have been tested positive and also show symptomps.

Who has more information here?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/04/2020 at 7:25pm
6 confirmed positive cases and others showing symptoms and being tested. Almost 36 players played this tournament so I hope it's not widespread and everyone recovers well.

Stay safe everyone.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/04/2020 at 8:20pm
Well here's a picture they posted on FB. Not exactly taking any social distancing based on the this photo. 
Standing maybe 2-3 feet about, no masks. I've talked with one of the players who played and they are showing symptoms.  They went and got tested Thursday. Still waiting for the results.



Edited by Vince64 - 12/04/2020 at 9:43pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/04/2020 at 9:22pm
Hope it's mild and they recover quickly Confused




Edited by Charlie Brown - 12/04/2020 at 9:25pm
*sigh*
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2020 at 9:57am
It is inevitable that TT players will catch Covid-19 given the prevalence of the virus (worse now in most of the US than at any previous time).  It is an indoor sport also.

I'm going to make a suggestion to middle aged or older people who had Covid-19 with symptoms and recovered.  Take a bit of time before resuming sports, and have your primary care doctor give you an ECG test (electrocardiogram) before you really push yourself.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2772399
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2020 at 11:32am
My take is that it is not "inevitable". We need to take a set of procedures, follow them 100%, and _then_ see whether we get infections.

At the San Antonio Open in November the organizers did the following:

* Pre-announce the ground rules to every participant. No non-player in the building except 1/minor
* Temperature check
* Large (high, wide) venue (basketball facility), AC running, some doors open sometimes
* Face masks when not playing 100% (a few folks took them off and were sternly reminded)
* Distancing mostly happening, and possible with the space available

Also I wore my 6-layer face mask 100% of the time when playing (changed filters every hour or so), not many people wore face masks when playing.

I think this was as good as what is being done in restaurants right now except for the actual table tennis playing (the physical effort) but we did have 6 feet distancing there too.

I think it is entirely feasible to play tabletennis with a one-layer mask (e.g. the Underarmour Sportsmask). It's not super-convenient but if I can play with a 6-layer mask (Underarmour + 2 filtrete + 1 PM2.5 + 2 cloth) it can be done. I actually don't understand why not everyone plays with at least a cloth mask.

I just watched Kingdom of Heaven (1200 AD), and in these times people were fighting with body armour including faceshield, which must have been less convenient than a face mask. I am wondering whether anyone elected not to wear a mask at that time while fighting...


Edited by ejprinz - 12/06/2020 at 12:54am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2020 at 12:55pm
Did the infections occur inside ICC or during informal social gatherings? Multi-day tournaments may be risky.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2020 at 1:31pm
California has a population of 39.5 million.  With 19,791 deaths, only .0005% have died due to covid.  Eliminate those who were in poor health, the % is much lower.  A healthy person doesn't seem to have much to fear.  To put millions of people out of a job and the closure of many business's doesn't seem like a good trade off.  Our governor thinks it's okay for nonessential business's to go broke.  The people who own and work in those business's would disagree.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2020 at 1:48pm
not surprised this would happen
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2020 at 1:55pm
I think just about everything of value about this incident has been said and discussed.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2020 at 2:09pm
I disagree.  Quite a lot more could be said.  It may be an uncomfortable topic -- and of course some forum  members downplayed this from the start-- but the fact that this occurred is important to note.  

How did it happen?  What can members learn from it?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2020 at 2:58pm
Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

California has a population of 39.5 million.  With 19,791 deaths, only .0005% have died due to covid. 

That's 0.05%, not .0005. What percentage of deaths would you find acceptable in a modern society?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2020 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

California has a population of 39.5 million.  With 19,791 deaths, only .0005% have died due to covid. 

That's 0.05%, not .0005. What percentage of deaths would you find acceptable in a modern society?
 Not to get involved in this discussion but it is .0005. If it was .05% than the deaths would be 1,975,000. I’m just guessing you used 3,950,000 instead of 39,500,000 for your math.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2020 at 3:14pm
Originally posted by Vince64 Vince64 wrote:

Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

California has a population of 39.5 million.  With 19,791 deaths, only .0005% have died due to covid. 

That's 0.05%, not .0005. What percentage of deaths would you find acceptable in a modern society?
 Not to get involved in this discussion but it is .0005. If it was .05% than the deaths would be 1,975,000. I’m just guessing you used 3,950,000 instead of 39,500,000 for your math.

When you use % after the number that means PER CENT, or 1 per 100. The ratio currently is 0.0005, which means 0.05% - not 0.0005%.

Silly discussion when even basic math isn't understood.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2020 at 3:20pm
Originally posted by Vince64 Vince64 wrote:

Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

California has a population of 39.5 million.  With 19,791 deaths, only .0005% have died due to covid. 

That's 0.05%, not .0005. What percentage of deaths would you find acceptable in a modern society?
 Not to get involved in this discussion but it is .0005. If it was .05% than the deaths would be 1,975,000. I’m just guessing you used 3,950,000 instead of 39,500,000 for your math.
amateur is right since it's being expressed as a percentage. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2020 at 3:52pm
Concentrating only on fatality is a mistake.  Covid-19 can fuvk you up even if you don't die and hospital systems are or soon will be overwhelmed by it.  Long-term consequences are now emerging.  

At the same time, people want to live their lives as much as is possible.  Me too.

What might be helpful to know is what were the conditions and/or protocol failures that caused an outbreak at this particular event, and what can be learned from it so that we can have safer tournaments in the midst of a situation that will be around for awhile longer?


Edited by Baal - 12/05/2020 at 4:04pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2020 at 4:03pm
Originally posted by ejprinz ejprinz wrote:

My take is that it is not "inevitable". 

What makes it inevitable is TT players represent a cross section of society at large.  So (as we've  seen here from the start of this) a certain number will not comply with recommended safety precautions, either because they are momentarily careless, or think because they are young they are invincible,  or think it's a hoax or not dangerous, or maybe just unlucky.  Also, the unfortunate feature of this virus that asymptomatic people can spread it is a special challenge. 

That picture Vince posted is an example of something that simply didn't need to happen.  It leads me to believe there were probably all sorts of other safety breakdowns.  If anyone was actually there it would be good to know, so tournament directors know what NOT to do.




Edited by Baal - 12/05/2020 at 4:06pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2020 at 4:13pm
there is footage of the tournament games on youtube. No masks or anything appear to be required. Some may have elected to wear them, but not in the games I saw. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2020 at 4:31pm
Sell your ZKJ SZLC, buy this , problem solved. Only 2 pounds, 8 hours batterly life, USB charging, works with ipods!



https://microclimate.com/

For the sacredy-cats, there is also this $379 thing that's just 1/2lb more than the above covid helmet but it's a bit over the top now, especially to play table tennis but who knows, maybe we could adapt to it.




There is also that full size helmet with filters that costs $78 and will come to market soon, it also works with add-on filters. It is my preference and if it filters as well or better than the other 2 above, I'll be ready to restart.



My Orca card costs way more than that to my employer (it covers all buses in my region, ferries and water taxis...) so I can see employers shelling the money out to give one to their employees so they can come back to the office. We all work from home at the moment and I am sure management would rather see us back at our desks. If corporations massively opt for that solution, it could drive the price down enough for all individuals to think about getting one.

It claims to be able to filter 99.97% of all particles 0.3 microns or bigger. It is said that the size of SARS-CoV-2 ranges between 60 nanometers (nm) to a maximum diameter of 140 nanometers (nm). I'd feel safer and maybe ready to go back to the club on a reasonable budget but I still have reserves: What I do not understand is given 0.3 microns is 300 nanometers, how does those masks protect me when SARS-CoV-2 can be as small as 60 nanometers, 5 times smaller than what the filter can stop



Edited by stiltt - 12/05/2020 at 7:35pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2020 at 4:38pm
This would never have happened in Melbourne... We had like a few months of complete lockdowns and only recently were clubs even allowed to reopen (and that is after many many days of consecutive 0 cases). And we still have very strict social distancing rules in place....

Edited by blahness - 12/05/2020 at 4:39pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2020 at 6:15pm
At this tournament did players change sides?  Were there spectators?  How many? Outside  of matches did players congregate with each other or with spectstors?  Was there any screening procedure in place at all to get into the facility (they aren't very effective but still).  Did the organizers do anything different from what would have happened in 2019?  Does anybody know?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2020 at 6:40pm
They had following guidelines which was followed with 2 full time staff members. The picture without mask was taken at the end of the event for 8 qualifiers to gather. They were asked to lower their mask for just 10-15 seconds. In matches all players were allowed to play without mask. According to professional sports guidelines in Santa Clara county even sports with body contact (Football, Basketball, Taekwondo) etc was allowed for players till 29th November. Compare to that players without mask for one picture is very safe. Players and his coach during match also can not have 6 ft social distancing. ICC was open since long time since June for members, summer camps, group lessons, leagues (50 players on each Saturday and 50 on each Sunday). They managed to operate without any COVID incidence since June. They were closed for their programs and members for the trials. Compare to that these 35 players selection was very small number for them. Only problem was players from multiple clubs attended this trials. No one can find out that who was the first carrier to spread this.

Guidelines which was sent out to all players

We will follow all COVID safety guidelines under Pro-Sport category very strictly for all.

1) All participants and authorized coaches will have to sign a COVID waiver form.
2) Spectators, Visitors or parents are not allowed as per the guidelines.
3) Players will have to leave the premises once their match is completed for that day.
4) We will measure the body temperature for all players and coaches at the entrance of the building.
5) We will enforce a 6ft social distance policy in the building.
6) Mask is mandatory for all in the common premises. Player has to put his/her mask on before stepping outside of the playing court.
7) All courts are separated with the barriers.
8) We will have a sanitization station on each court with hand sanitizers and wipes. Players have to wipe the Table before their match. Players must sanitize their hands before the start of the match, after
9) each game and also at the end of the match.
10) No change of the side after each game. No shake hand after any match.
11) We will use brand new or sanitized balls for each match. Ball used for one match will not be repeated again for the same day. It may be used again only on the next day after we sanitize it in the night.
12) Strictly no food is allowed inside the facility.
13) We have some new participants. Please bring your valid proof to prove that you live legally in USA
and not with status of visitor visa. Eligibility is mentioned in entry form.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2020 at 6:48pm
I was there both the days. 

No side change, No spectators or even parents were allowed to enter, No handshaking, Body temperature was measured for anyone entering the building, Each court had sanitization station, brand new ball for each match. Just heard that one coach from another club had symptoms and even though he was there for both the days. His body temperature was ok to enter so no one knew this. Someone just leaked this on Tuesday. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2020 at 6:54pm
Originally posted by janak_jadejabapu@yah [email protected] wrote:

I was there both the days. 

No side change, No spectators or even parents were allowed to enter, No handshaking, Body temperature was measured for anyone entering the building, Each court had sanitization station, brand new ball for each match. Just heard that one coach from another club had symptoms and even though he was there for both the days. His body temperature was ok to enter so no one knew this. Someone just leaked this on Tuesday. 



looks to me like plenty of parents, spectators and coaches in the court areas. 

no handshaking, body temperature checks and the likes do very little to stop the spread and the outcome of this event is proof of that 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2020 at 7:00pm
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Edited by idk - 12/05/2020 at 10:32pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2020 at 7:06pm
wonder what the motivation is for the above user to lie?? or maybe he or she conveniently missed all of that. just at the start of the video you see two parents in the shot for two different tables, and at 1:30 you see another parent walk by, another appears from the lobby area at 2:30, and shortly after zhou xin who was not playing in the event (was coaching) walks by. 

thats just in a 3 minute video showing only two tables out of two days and tons of tables


Edited by idk - 12/05/2020 at 7:11pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2020 at 7:32pm
Those precautions mentioned would be as good as you can do if followed.  Clearly they weren't.  And a fairly significant spread was the result.  

This is so frustrating.   

So one coach from another club managed to infect a minimum of six other people? Or more.. The organizers obviously tolerated conditions that allowed this to happen!!!  And in my view, that is inexcusably negligent.

But maybe the value of this thread --and the reason I wanted it to go on a bit more -- is it could be as an example of conditions that can allow spread.  The video above certainly has red flags.

I hope nobody ends up dealing with health issues down the road.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2020 at 7:52pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

So one coach from another club managed to infect a minimum of six other people? 


quite sure  that claim is also not true, that user smells like someone from icc trying to do damage control..perhaps he can clear up the "no parents or spectators allowed" statement and then we can continue from there


Edited by idk - 12/05/2020 at 7:53pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/05/2020 at 11:12pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I disagree.  Quite a lot more could be said.  It may be an uncomfortable topic -- and of course some forum  members downplayed this from the start-- but the fact that this occurred is important to note.  

How did it happen?  What can members learn from it?

People catch a flu-like-illness during the flu season - what can members learn from it?  That the attitudes of people to catching respiratory viruses have changed massively.

As for the people you say downplayed this, I actually think they were justified in downplaying it, though people will ascribe different meanings to that word.  The flipside to downplaying it is an excessive reaction and that is what we have in some parts of the USA.

A careful postmortem in a year or two will show the overreaction as we will be able to analyze the excess death figures, look at the impacts of various measures etc..  After all, the articles on the 2009 swine flu right now reveal all kinds of shenanigans from back then.  https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/reconstruction-of-a-mass-hysteria-the-swine-flu-panic-of-2009-a-682613.html

After the fear of this disease is over and people look back at all the statistics, it will be clear that while there was a disease and while it was nastier than the seasonal flu, there was a huge amount of fear pumped by politicians and media that left us with kids not going to school, college kids being treated like cancer patients and many old people being cut off from their families in order to protect them from a virus that it will be eventually admitted we had little-to-no-control over as a society and for which we failed to focus our resources on the people who needed it most.

I hope that when articles like these come out, you won't be in a rush to censor them.

As for the table tennis event, this is a normal spreading event.  The problem is that people pretend that wearing masks and social distancing makes a difference - it hardly does.  As they say, the 3 Cs = Crowds, close contact, closed spaces - and even then, aerosols make distance moot.  So if you are going to play TT and you haven't made your peace with the fact that you can do nothing to prevent yourself from getting exposed, please stay at home!  Especially if there is a large crowd where you play, because that exposes you to more potential spreaders.  And if you are sick and go into a large crowd, you are spreading to more people.  

Wearing all the masks in the world will not help you if you have to take them off to play, and even if you play in them, if you can inhale air, you can inhale and exhale viruses as most masks are not at a quality where they block aerosols and if they did, you likely wouldn't be able to play with them unless the mask was really sophisticated and expensive.

A few points - a lot of ILIs (influenza like illnesses) are quite dangerous in the right host.  
Covid19 is no different, the difference is that we have more familiarity with the flu than we did with covid19, and no one pumps up influenza and gives you numbers every year on who dies.  We also don't test for influenza the way we test for covid19, and eventually, it will become clear that the tests currently being run for covid19 have flaws that many in the media tend to ignore even after reporting on them.

So it is very unlikely that anyone will die from this event.  It is the seasonal transmission of a respiratory disease which has replaced influenza as the dominant disease this year.  That doesn't mean that one shouldn't be wary of it (after all, any smart person should be wary of influenza!), but it means that when the all cause mortality statistics and hospital admission numbers show up, they will be comparable to what we get during the flu season every year as covid19 and the flu don't do separate damage - they attack the same populations of people.

So again, what should we learn from this event:

1.  IF you go into a place with multiple people, you have zero control over your exposure to covid.
2.  If you go into a large crowd in a TT club, it is unlikely that masks will protect you if you stay there long enough and are exposed to lots of people in a closed ventilated space.
3.  IF you go to play TT, expect that you will get covid19 and think about what it means before going to play.  If you can't make peace with it, don't go.  Follow all the rules and regulations for covid19 because they are designed to protect you and people will berate you for not following them and blame you for catching a type of disease that we historically never blamed people for catching.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/06/2020 at 3:51am
All

I can answer any questions here for all.

No parents or visitors were allowed. All players were asked to send name of their one coach by Wednesday night. Only that person (coach) was allowed to enter. Players had option to name his Dad or Mom to act as his/her coach. Not a single person on top of that was allowed. Following was final list who were allowed to enter. 19 names were received as a coach. 

Player Coach
Darryl Tsao Wilson Tsao
Ved Sheth
Angie Tan Bob Chen
Emily Tan
Tian Ye Meng Yu
Priyan Jindal Sean Lee
Faith Tung Wang Jinxin
James Therriault Avishy Schmidt
Xianyao He Yihua He
Victor Moraga Francisca Henriquez
Levin Michael Wenting Zha
Tianrui Zhang Zhe Wang
Nikhil kumar Sahil Puri
Aditya Godhwani Zhou Xin
Bai, William
Feng, Jensen Carissa Duan
Ava Fu Weimin Fu
Anil Godhwani Zhou Xin
Kayla Goodwin Daniel Goodwin
Dong Liu Paul Chang
Boliang Lyu
Mudit Mahajan
Barry Or
Aneesh Raghavan Tao Wenzhang
Ashwin Sankuratri
Robert Shahnazari
Shashin shodhan
Purvi Soni
Aziz Zarehbin Payam Zarehbin

About the rumor of a coach with symptoms from a club came from the players of the same club. According to same source, he even took his test before Friday (2nd day of tournament) and his result was positive on Saturday. 

Again anyone can be carrier without symptoms on first day and it can be even me. 


Edited by NextLevel - 12/06/2020 at 5:39pm
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