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    Posted: 02/10/2021 at 11:31pm

Very interesting video on the footwork for the short push against short balls followed by a FH loop -> Liu Guoliang was describing it was like a fencer going in and out. 

I found a few very interesting videos on this channel too like the one below by Wang Nan (see 2:00) which she mentions that cocking the wrist backwards (wrist going into flexion) is a cause for wrist injuries and is an incorrect technique. She was of the school of thought of keeping the elbow closer to the body and the wrist straight (I've made this adjustment recently too - with the wrist starting out mostly straight/neutral and to allow the wrist to break into extension freely at the end of the stroke to release stress) 



There's another one with a super slowmo of Liu Guoliang instructing Ding Ning on the short push (see before and after -> it's a marked improvement!). The difference is in the body usage, he was saying Ding Ning relied too much on hands and ball feeling for the short push rather than using the body...



Edited by blahness - 02/11/2021 at 12:05am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/11/2021 at 7:59pm
These look interesting! Thanks blahness. I'm going to watch them all with some hot coffee :D
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/12/2021 at 11:24pm
I found the fuller training video with Lily and Liu Guoliang at 0:27 below...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2021 at 7:51pm
I love how in those videos with the little kids, they're always showing them how to do something and when they actually go to rallying, you can tell they've been playing for ages already with professional coaching haha.

The video with Ding Ning, it's always amazing to see how much spin they get on the short stop. The side view really shows how much the ball spins back towards the net.

I'll check out the new video too, thanks for the link :D
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DLC1325 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2021 at 8:03pm
Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

...

The video with Ding Ning, it's always amazing to see how much spin they get on the short stop. The side view really shows how much the ball spins back towards the net...


It is crazy how much spin they get on the short stop AND how short it is. I started doing it because RSM said it took his game to a world class level.

For me, it has drastically changed the way I return serves (it nullifies just about all spin variation) and puts a lot of pressure on the opponent. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2021 at 8:25pm
Wish I could do it too, man. I can return short... the ball just pops a little high and has very little spin... Works okay for my skill level but definitely nothing amazing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DLC1325 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2021 at 8:29pm
Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

Wish I could do it too, man. I can return short... the ball just pops a little high and has very little spin... Works okay for my skill level but definitely nothing amazing.

One day. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2021 at 8:45pm
Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

Wish I could do it too, man. I can return short... the ball just pops a little high and has very little spin... Works okay for my skill level but definitely nothing amazing.

There's a few keys to the short push imo:

In order of importance:
1) don't use your hand, but your body. The key is to use the lean forward + press on your right foot for the power. Any kind of arm backswing is gonna reduce accuracy and spin, the best is no arm backswing at all with the elbow close to your body. 
2) brush sideways and create an arc, never bump the ball back (pretty much applies for all inverted strokes). You should always want to be in control of your destiny not the opponent's ball! A tiny bit of supination/pronation always helps to control the arc. 
3) footwork to reach the ball in time. For me it's always 3 steps forward - press on right foot, left foot follows forward and right foot then lands on the final position. You gotta get to the point to catch the ball early on the rise otherwise it won't work. 
4) don't use bouncy rubbers xD 

One of the best ways to learn this is for your partner to serve you some no spin balls and then you have to do the short push. This forces you to do all the work (brush and keep it low/short) in the short push. Short push against underspin is too easy and unlike pushing against no spin you can get away with bad habits. Short pushing against no spin really exposes the deficiencies in your short push technique. 

A quality short push is extremely destructive against loopers especially when paired with the flick and long fast push. I play against quality penholders very frequently and they abuse the short push to the max haha. I'm not as good as them but I picked up quite a few tricks from them. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2021 at 10:13pm
Good advice blahness! Things I will be working on :D I think I got the rubber covered because I'm using hurricane on the forehand and backhand. Definitely can't blame the rubber :P

My level has dropped like 100+ points at the moment, I feel. Maybe a little more. But that's only because I'm hardly playing at the moment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robin.w Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/15/2021 at 1:13am

Can’t agree more except 1) which my understanding is “don’t only use your hand, but also your body’. The wrist and fingers alway play a important part in generating spin and directing the ball.


Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by mickd mickd wrote:

Wish I could do it too, man. I can return short... the ball just pops a little high and has very little spin... Works okay for my skill level but definitely nothing amazing.

There's a few keys to the short push imo:

In order of importance:
1) don't use your hand, but your body. The key is to use the lean forward + press on your right foot for the power. Any kind of arm backswing is gonna reduce accuracy and spin, the best is no arm backswing at all with the elbow close to your body. 
2) brush sideways and create an arc, never bump the ball back (pretty much applies for all inverted strokes). You should always want to be in control of your destiny not the opponent's ball! A tiny bit of supination/pronation always helps to control the arc. 
3) footwork to reach the ball in time. For me it's always 3 steps forward - press on right foot, left foot follows forward and right foot then lands on the final position. You gotta get to the point to catch the ball early on the rise otherwise it won't work. 
4) don't use bouncy rubbers xD 

One of the best ways to learn this is for your partner to serve you some no spin balls and then you have to do the short push. This forces you to do all the work (brush and keep it low/short) in the short push. Short push against underspin is too easy and unlike pushing against no spin you can get away with bad habits. Short pushing against no spin really exposes the deficiencies in your short push technique. 

A quality short push is extremely destructive against loopers especially when paired with the flick and long fast push. I play against quality penholders very frequently and they abuse the short push to the max haha. I'm not as good as them but I picked up quite a few tricks from them. 
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