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Asian Cup 2022, Bangkok, 11/17-19

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mykonos96 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/20/2022 at 3:21pm
Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Harimoto plugged most of the holes in his game, he is capable of playing close table, mid distance and far distance on both BH and FH with plenty of power now... along with an amazing short game I think he's becoming increasingly hard to beat (if he doesnt mess up his serve receive against weird servers)

Dude when he was Top 10 he lost to dyjas and jorgic and some romanian guy and  you can add points to get #2 without even proving you can beat under Top10 players.
I back my opinion on how  HT performs  in worlds and OG.
If being Top 10 would be HT real ranking he would have played by this time a semifinal in a wttt or OG.
 

That only happens when he plays someone who let HT do that strokes. 80% of his game are BH punches.

Dude, he's WR 2. Time to give his game some credit. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YoAss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/20/2022 at 5:03pm
Ichiro Ogimura probably was Japan's first #1 player (having kept that rank for a long, long time).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/20/2022 at 10:18pm
Originally posted by Rich-TT Rich-TT wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Harimoto plugged most of the holes in his game, he is capable of playing close table, mid distance and far distance on both BH and FH with plenty of power now... along with an amazing short game I think he's becoming increasingly hard to beat (if he doesnt mess up his serve receive against weird servers)

That only happens when he plays someone who let HT do that strokes. 80% of his game are BH punches.

I'm quite impressed that someone with 80% BH punches recently beat an in-form WCQ and FZD. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2022 at 12:16am
Until he wins a WTTC gold or an Olympic gold, Harimoto has done nothing.

Posting for a (former) friend...


Edited by NextLevel - 11/21/2022 at 12:17am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hurricane4 #20Sponge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2022 at 2:01am
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Harimoto plugged most of the holes in his game, he is capable of playing close table, mid distance and far distance on both BH and FH with plenty of power now... along with an amazing short game I think he's becoming increasingly hard to beat (if he doesnt mess up his serve receive against weird servers)

Dude when he was Top 10 he lost to dyjas and jorgic and some romanian guy and  you can add points to get #2 without even proving you can beat under Top10 players.
I back my opinion on how  HT performs  in worlds and OG.
If being Top 10 would be HT real ranking he would have played by this time a semifinal in a wttt or OG.
 

That only happens when he plays someone who let HT do that strokes. 80% of his game are BH punches.

Dude, he's WR 2. Time to give his game some credit. 

besides Fan, Wang and ML, literally name 7 other current players you would consider to be better than Harimoto lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2022 at 4:11am
Strictly speaking, 佐藤博治/SATOH Hiroji was the first-ever WR1 player from Japan in 1952 (1952/9/1). 小野誠治/ONO Seiji is the last WR1 player from Japan in 1979/7 and 1980/7. 大川とみ/OKAWA Tomi (incorrectly as OKAWA Tomie in the English source) is the first-ever WR1 female player from Japan in 1956 (1957/1/23). 小和田敏子/KOWADA Toshiko is the last WR1 female player from Japan in 1969 and 1970 (incorrectly as KOWADA Koshiko in 1970 in the English source). Back then, World Champion = WR1.
Source:
https://web.archive.org/web/20120120122359/http://www.ittf.com/museum/consolidatedrankings.pdf
https://rallys.online/forplayers/191103wr-japan/

Ito (WR2, 2020/4) and now Harimoto (WR2, 2022/11) are the closest to becoming WR1 players from Japan after the computerized World Rankings started in 1991/10.
Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20170107100812/http://www.old.ittf.com/museum/ITTF-Ranking-1987-2000.pdf
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2022 at 8:34am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Until he wins a WTTC gold or an Olympic gold, Harimoto has done nothing.

Posting for a (former) friend...

If he would  have played a semi in a worlds he would be a true top5. How many top 5 players have lost to under top20 players in world championships ?


Edited by mykonos96 - 11/21/2022 at 8:35am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2022 at 8:39am
Originally posted by Hurricane4 #20Sponge Hurricane4 #20Sponge wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Harimoto plugged most of the holes in his game, he is capable of playing close table, mid distance and far distance on both BH and FH with plenty of power now... along with an amazing short game I think he's becoming increasingly hard to beat (if he doesnt mess up his serve receive against weird servers)

Dude when he was Top 10 he lost to dyjas and jorgic and some romanian guy and  you can add points to get #2 without even proving you can beat under Top10 players.
I back my opinion on how  HT performs  in worlds and OG.
If being Top 10 would be HT real ranking he would have played by this time a semifinal in a wttt or OG.
 

That only happens when he plays someone who let HT do that strokes. 80% of his game are BH punches.

Dude, he's WR 2. Time to give his game some credit. 

besides Fan, Wang and ML, literally name 7 other current players you would consider to be better than Harimoto lol

Your question is nonsense because better is not the same as high ranked. WCQ is better. Now that WR matters for you  Tell me.
Why HT has better ranking than WCQ if WCQ has defeated  HT more times?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2022 at 8:45am
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Until he wins a WTTC gold or an Olympic gold, Harimoto has done nothing.

Posting for a (former) friend...

If he would  have played a semi in a worlds he would be a true top5. How many top 5 players have lost to under top20 players in world championships ?

How many top 5 players have been aged 18 or younger?
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2022 at 10:56am
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by Hurricane4 #20Sponge Hurricane4 #20Sponge wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Harimoto plugged most of the holes in his game, he is capable of playing close table, mid distance and far distance on both BH and FH with plenty of power now... along with an amazing short game I think he's becoming increasingly hard to beat (if he doesnt mess up his serve receive against weird servers)

Dude when he was Top 10 he lost to dyjas and jorgic and some romanian guy and  you can add points to get #2 without even proving you can beat under Top10 players.
I back my opinion on how  HT performs  in worlds and OG.
If being Top 10 would be HT real ranking he would have played by this time a semifinal in a wttt or OG.
 

That only happens when he plays someone who let HT do that strokes. 80% of his game are BH punches.

Dude, he's WR 2. Time to give his game some credit. 

besides Fan, Wang and ML, literally name 7 other current players you would consider to be better than Harimoto lol

Your question is nonsense because better is not the same as high ranked. WCQ is better. Now that WR matters for you  Tell me.
Why HT has better ranking than WCQ if WCQ has defeated  HT more times?

Please do not say another person's question is "nonsense".   Consider this a warning. Thank you.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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BH: C1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2022 at 12:08pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Until he wins a WTTC gold or an Olympic gold, Harimoto has done nothing.

Posting for a (former) friend...

If he would  have played a semi in a worlds he would be a true top5. How many top 5 players have lost to under top20 players in world championships ?

How many top 5 players have been aged 18 or younger?

Guo yue was top 10 at 14 .well If you re top 10 and 8 years old player is just top 10  You just want to praise HT 
 I change non sense for irrelevant and aside that nonsense is not an insult well if you want to take some action against me because my posts is not what you want to read is just personal .

So in your argument a 16 year old 8th ranked players is better than a 24 year old 8th ranked player?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2022 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Until he wins a WTTC gold or an Olympic gold, Harimoto has done nothing.

Posting for a (former) friend...

If he would  have played a semi in a worlds he would be a true top5. How many top 5 players have lost to under top20 players in world championships ?

How many top 5 players have been aged 18 or younger?

Guo yue was top 10 at 14 .well If you re top 10 and 8 years old player is just top 10  You just want to praise HT 
 I change non sense for irrelevant and aside that nonsense is not an insult well if you want to take some action against me because my posts is not what you want to read is just personal .

So in your argument a 16 year old 8th ranked players is better than a 24 year old 8th ranked player?


Not at all, calling what someone else wrote "nonsense" is rude and I gave you your first warning (you can check the Golden rule in the Forum Rules).  If you don't like it, please appeal to an administrator.  Using language that denigrates the view of someone you are just engaging with is a violation of the Golden Rule.  Do it repeatedly and I will take action.

My question specifically asked for top 5 under the age of 18, and there is one prominent and obvious example (Fan Zhendong) but even then, Liu Guoliang was unwilling to let him go to the Olympics in 2016 because he didn't feel Fan was reliable enough.  I am just pointing out that inconsistency at a younger age is well known, Harimoto reached the WTTC quarterfinals first at the age of 13. 

My position is that as a player matures and gets better, his results get more stable as long as he is training and improving.  Why reference Harimoto's results a *year* ago as the biggest reason you think his current ranking is inflated? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich-TT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2022 at 1:27pm
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Until he wins a WTTC gold or an Olympic gold, Harimoto has done nothing.

Posting for a (former) friend...

If he would  have played a semi in a worlds he would be a true top5. How many top 5 players have lost to under top20 players in world championships ?

How many top 5 players have been aged 18 or younger?

Guo yue was top 10 at 14 .well If you re top 10 and 8 years old player is just top 10  You just want to praise HT 
 I change non sense for irrelevant and aside that nonsense is not an insult well if you want to take some action against me because my posts is not what you want to read is just personal .

So in your argument a 16 year old 8th ranked players is better than a 24 year old 8th ranked player?


Are Harimoto's feats not impressive at all to you? NL doesn't just "praise" players, that is pretty obvious from his post history. Most people who play TT are impressed by Harimoto's achievements in the sport. Are you sure you don't want to just downplay Harimoto's achievements because you just don't like him? That's fine, just be honest about it.

The ranking is what it is. But lately we've seen some good wins for Harimoto, I don't believe he's better than the top chinese, but he is inching closer and doing so in a suboptimal training environment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2022 at 2:40pm
Off the top of my head, Harimoto is the only player outside China to have taken out core CNT members multiple times at such a young age, namely ML, ZJK, FZD, LGY, LJK, and WCQ. XX is the only core CNT member to have 100% win rate against Harimoto. Keep in mind Harimoto first won against the ones above in 2018 and 2019, when he was only 14/15, a feat not equaled by anyone else (not even Hirano and Ito could compare). He just turned 19 roughly 5 months ago. He will only be 21, 25 and 29 at Paris 2024, Los Angeles 2028 and Brisbane 2032, respectively. He's effectively at the dawn of his career, despite having been on the circuit for 7 years already.

Once he overcomes the issue around European players/lower-ranked players, he will be hard to stop.

On the issue of talent among WCQ, LYJ and Harimoto:
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91735&PID=1129380&title=european-summer-series-2022-7-1122#1129380
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86149&PID=1069437&title=2019-japan-open-june-1216#1069437

Edited by zeio - 11/21/2022 at 3:22pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2022 at 6:19pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Until he wins a WTTC gold or an Olympic gold, Harimoto has done nothing.

Posting for a (former) friend...

If he would  have played a semi in a worlds he would be a true top5. How many top 5 players have lost to under top20 players in world championships ?

How many top 5 players have been aged 18 or younger?

Guo yue was top 10 at 14 .well If you re top 10 and 8 years old player is just top 10  You just want to praise HT 
 I change non sense for irrelevant and aside that nonsense is not an insult well if you want to take some action against me because my posts is not what you want to read is just personal .

So in your argument a 16 year old 8th ranked players is better than a 24 year old 8th ranked player?


Not at all, calling what someone else wrote "nonsense" is rude and I gave you your first warning (you can check the Golden rule in the Forum Rules).  If you don't like it, please appeal to an administrator.  Using language that denigrates the view of someone you are just engaging with is a violation of the Golden Rule.  Do it repeatedly and I will take action.

My question specifically asked for top 5 under the age of 18, and there is one prominent and obvious example (Fan Zhendong) but even then, Liu Guoliang was unwilling to let him go to the Olympics in 2016 because he didn't feel Fan was reliable enough.  I am just pointing out that inconsistency at a younger age is well known, Harimoto reached the WTTC quarterfinals first at the age of 13. 

My position is that as a player matures and gets better, his results get more stable as long as he is training and improving.  Why reference Harimoto's results a *year* ago as the biggest reason you think his current ranking is inflated? 

Fan ,ML wcq lin yu dont lost  to lower ranked players that  often. You must know of all top 10 players HT is the one who  has lost lower ranked players.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2022 at 12:10am
Yes, but all the players you listed, who do not lose to players outside the yop 10, all lose or have lost to Harimoto. You can't have it both ways.  They can't not lose to lower ranked players and the lose to Harimoto and then you start arguing that Harimoto is not top 10 even though he beats them!

Harimoto is also the one (other than maybe Fan Zhendong) who has had the largest expectations at the youngest age. Harimoto has a confidence problem.  But the is very different from saying he is not a top 10 player.  Are your best arguments still based on results from last year?

Lin Yun Ju... well, let's just say that it all depends on what you define as often.  But you can find lots of losses by Lin Yun Ju to worse players if you want to take that argument further.  Because you like him, you forget those losses.  Even the European players that Harimoto lost to, those were all players who have medaled at European Championships, it is focusing on World ranking that obscures that these players either are at the top or were expected to get to the top of Europe. The exception is An Jaehyun, and he took a maximum risk style and managed to play with it.  It will be interesting to see the rematch.




Edited by NextLevel - 11/22/2022 at 12:11am
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2022 at 12:40am
I'm sorry but this discussion is stupid.  If a player gets into the top 10 and stays there for years then he is a top 10 player.  If you start picking and choosing them the whole idea of WR and a top 10 quickly becomes meaningless.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2022 at 12:44am
https://world-tt.com/blog/news/archives/43336
Quote 世界ランキング(11月22日発表2022#47)が発表とな£た。

11月19日に終了したアジアカップ男子シングルスで優勝の張本智和(IMG)が馬龍、王楚欽(いずれも中国)を抜き、自身最高位となる2位にランキングを上げた。コンピューター集計によるランキングが始ま£て以来、日本男子では最高のランクとなる。


Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Ito (WR2, 2020/4) and now Harimoto (WR2, 2022/11) are the closest to becoming WR1 players from Japan after the computerized World Rankings started in 1991/10.
Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20170107100812/http://www.old.ittf.com/museum/ITTF-Ranking-1987-2000.pdf
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2022 at 2:15am
Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

I'm sorry but this discussion is stupid.  If a player gets into the top 10 and stays there for years then he is a top 10 player.  If you start picking and choosing them the whole idea of WR and a top 10 quickly becomes meaningless.

Please don't be rude.  Our discussion is not stupid. Mykonos is espousing his strongly hele belief that Harimoto's losses are worse than those of a true top player.  He may very well be proven right over time though I doubt it.  The rating/ranking system also has strengths and weaknesses.


Edited by NextLevel - 11/22/2022 at 2:16am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/23/2022 at 10:09am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Yes, but all the players you listed, who do not lose to players outside the yop 10, all lose or have lost to Harimoto. You can't have it both ways.  They can't not lose to lower ranked players and the lose to Harimoto and then you start arguing that Harimoto is not top 10 even though he beats them!

Harimoto is also the one (other than maybe Fan Zhendong) who has had the largest expectations at the youngest age. Harimoto has a confidence problem.  But the is very different from saying he is not a top 10 player.  Are your best arguments still based on results from last year?

Lin Yun Ju... well, let's just say that it all depends on what you define as often.  But you can find lots of losses by Lin Yun Ju to worse players if you want to take that argument further.  Because you like him, you forget those losses.  Even the European players that Harimoto lost to, those were all players who have medaled at European Championships, it is focusing on World ranking that obscures that these players either are at the top or were expected to get to the top of Europe. The exception is An Jaehyun, and he took a maximum risk style and managed to play with it.  It will be interesting to see the rematch.


When was the last time HT defeated WCQ FAN ML? If HT defeats them again in short term then it will prove I m wrong. The point here is that you guys are annoyed because I dont think HT is  a true Top 10

Would you guys bet if HT can beat the top CNT? What happened to HT after worlds when he lost again to WCQ? Why it took several years HT to beat fan and wang again? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/23/2022 at 12:02pm
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Yes, but all the players you listed, who do not lose to players outside the yop 10, all lose or have lost to Harimoto. You can't have it both ways.  They can't not lose to lower ranked players and the lose to Harimoto and then you start arguing that Harimoto is not top 10 even though he beats them!

Harimoto is also the one (other than maybe Fan Zhendong) who has had the largest expectations at the youngest age. Harimoto has a confidence problem.  But the is very different from saying he is not a top 10 player.  Are your best arguments still based on results from last year?

Lin Yun Ju... well, let's just say that it all depends on what you define as often.  But you can find lots of losses by Lin Yun Ju to worse players if you want to take that argument further.  Because you like him, you forget those losses.  Even the European players that Harimoto lost to, those were all players who have medaled at European Championships, it is focusing on World ranking that obscures that these players either are at the top or were expected to get to the top of Europe. The exception is An Jaehyun, and he took a maximum risk style and managed to play with it.  It will be interesting to see the rematch.


When was the last time HT defeated WCQ FAN ML? If HT defeats them again in short term then it will prove I m wrong. The point here is that you guys are annoyed because I dont think HT is  a true Top 10

Would you guys bet if HT can beat the top CNT? What happened to HT after worlds when he lost again to WCQ? Why it took several years HT to beat fan and wang again? 

I am not sure what your question is or what you are trying to say.   Anyone can tell by googling that Harimoto beat Fan and Wang Chuqin in October in China.  Maybe you are asking when Harimoto will beat them next?

I am not annoyed by anything.  In your specific case, you like to promote Chinese players and put down the level of any player that is not Chinese for the most part.  So when people realize this, it is much easier to understand how to read your posts.  You have done it for years, but not everyone has read your posts for years or knows the pattern so they can take discussions with you more seriously.  I am okay with anything as long as people are not rude about it.

Obviously, when people say controversial/dubious/wrong things on the internet, people try to correct them.  I think your position that Harimoto's ranking is inflated is quite reasonable.  I think it is wrong, but reasonable people can be wrong all the time.  

No doubt WCQ and LGY were exhausted following the extensive Chinese national championships (WCQ had played a lot prior to that, while LGY reached the finals in Teams and Singles and won Doubles).  Ultimately, WCQ lost to a player that Harimoto beat convincingly.  However one cuts it, Harimoto is a pretty strong player and everyone is entitled to opinions about how strong he really is - the opinions won't change his match results or his  ITTF world ranking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/25/2022 at 8:45am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Yes, but all the players you listed, who do not lose to players outside the yop 10, all lose or have lost to Harimoto. You can't have it both ways.  They can't not lose to lower ranked players and the lose to Harimoto and then you start arguing that Harimoto is not top 10 even though he beats them!

Harimoto is also the one (other than maybe Fan Zhendong) who has had the largest expectations at the youngest age. Harimoto has a confidence problem.  But the is very different from saying he is not a top 10 player.  Are your best arguments still based on results from last year?

Lin Yun Ju... well, let's just say that it all depends on what you define as often.  But you can find lots of losses by Lin Yun Ju to worse players if you want to take that argument further.  Because you like him, you forget those losses.  Even the European players that Harimoto lost to, those were all players who have medaled at European Championships, it is focusing on World ranking that obscures that these players either are at the top or were expected to get to the top of Europe. The exception is An Jaehyun, and he took a maximum risk style and managed to play with it.  It will be interesting to see the rematch.


When was the last time HT defeated WCQ FAN ML? If HT defeats them again in short term then it will prove I m wrong. The point here is that you guys are annoyed because I dont think HT is  a true Top 10

Would you guys bet if HT can beat the top CNT? What happened to HT after worlds when he lost again to WCQ? Why it took several years HT to beat fan and wang again? 

I am not sure what your question is or what you are trying to say.   Anyone can tell by googling that Harimoto beat Fan and Wang Chuqin in October in China.  Maybe you are asking when Harimoto will beat them next?

I am not annoyed by anything.  In your specific case, you like to promote Chinese players and put down the level of any player that is not Chinese for the most part.  So when people realize this, it is much easier to understand how to read your posts.  You have done it for years, but not everyone has read your posts for years or knows the pattern so they can take discussions with you more seriously.  I am okay with anything as long as people are not rude about it.

Obviously, when people say controversial/dubious/wrong things on the internet, people try to correct them.  I think your position that Harimoto's ranking is inflated is quite reasonable.  I think it is wrong, but reasonable people can be wrong all the time.  

No doubt WCQ and LGY were exhausted following the extensive Chinese national championships (WCQ had played a lot prior to that, while LGY reached the finals in Teams and Singles and won Doubles).  Ultimately, WCQ lost to a player that Harimoto beat convincingly.  However one cuts it, Harimoto is a pretty strong player and everyone is entitled to opinions about how strong he really is - the opinions won't change his match results or his  ITTF world ranking.

I m not sure too what you mean in your coment but a player that I really think is top5 is dima. Harimoto took a long time to beat wcq and fan . Another player that now seems oveerated now but not in the past is calderano .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/25/2022 at 9:46am
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Yes, but all the players you listed, who do not lose to players outside the yop 10, all lose or have lost to Harimoto. You can't have it both ways.  They can't not lose to lower ranked players and the lose to Harimoto and then you start arguing that Harimoto is not top 10 even though he beats them!

Harimoto is also the one (other than maybe Fan Zhendong) who has had the largest expectations at the youngest age. Harimoto has a confidence problem.  But the is very different from saying he is not a top 10 player.  Are your best arguments still based on results from last year?

Lin Yun Ju... well, let's just say that it all depends on what you define as often.  But you can find lots of losses by Lin Yun Ju to worse players if you want to take that argument further.  Because you like him, you forget those losses.  Even the European players that Harimoto lost to, those were all players who have medaled at European Championships, it is focusing on World ranking that obscures that these players either are at the top or were expected to get to the top of Europe. The exception is An Jaehyun, and he took a maximum risk style and managed to play with it.  It will be interesting to see the rematch.


When was the last time HT defeated WCQ FAN ML? If HT defeats them again in short term then it will prove I m wrong. The point here is that you guys are annoyed because I dont think HT is  a true Top 10

Would you guys bet if HT can beat the top CNT? What happened to HT after worlds when he lost again to WCQ? Why it took several years HT to beat fan and wang again? 

I am not sure what your question is or what you are trying to say.   Anyone can tell by googling that Harimoto beat Fan and Wang Chuqin in October in China.  Maybe you are asking when Harimoto will beat them next?

I am not annoyed by anything.  In your specific case, you like to promote Chinese players and put down the level of any player that is not Chinese for the most part.  So when people realize this, it is much easier to understand how to read your posts.  You have done it for years, but not everyone has read your posts for years or knows the pattern so they can take discussions with you more seriously.  I am okay with anything as long as people are not rude about it.

Obviously, when people say controversial/dubious/wrong things on the internet, people try to correct them.  I think your position that Harimoto's ranking is inflated is quite reasonable.  I think it is wrong, but reasonable people can be wrong all the time.  

No doubt WCQ and LGY were exhausted following the extensive Chinese national championships (WCQ had played a lot prior to that, while LGY reached the finals in Teams and Singles and won Doubles).  Ultimately, WCQ lost to a player that Harimoto beat convincingly.  However one cuts it, Harimoto is a pretty strong player and everyone is entitled to opinions about how strong he really is - the opinions won't change his match results or his  ITTF world ranking.

I m not sure too what you mean in your coment but a player that I really think is top5 is dima. Harimoto took a long time to beat wcq and fan . Another player that now seems oveerated now but not in the past is calderano .
Outside of China, the list of those beating both WCQ and FZD is extremely small so that is another argument in favor of HT being top 10 worthy.  HT both lost and won vs WCQ at the Youth Games in 2018 in separate events.  HT played FZD twice also in 2018 losing their 1st encounter at Team World Cup, but winning their 2nd encounter at the Asian World Cup.  For comparison since you've used Dima as an example, Dima took 4 years to beat FZD (lost 2013, won 2017) and lost his only encounter with WCQ at this year's WTT Champions Macao.  

I see you've changed the goal post from top 10 to top 5 now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/25/2022 at 11:58am
Neither Calderano nor Dima has ever beaten Wang Chuqin or Ma Long.  Dima I believe has about 3-4 wins vs Fan over many matches since 2013.

So it is interesting that the real top 10 players can't beat Wang Chuqin and Ma Long (they only beat Fan Zhendong), and the fake top 10 player according to Mykonos has wins over all three (all struggles but that is life).  And both real top 10 players struggle to beat the fake one - I don't think that Dima or Hugo have beaten Harimoto since 2019 but I could be wrong.

I get that the main argument is that Harimoto has bad losses, but bad losses to Dyjas (Euro 2016 bronze medallist), Ionescu (Euro 2018 silver medallist) (and on the way to these titles, both Dyjas and Ionescu beat Dima if memory serves me right) and Jorgic (current Europe top 12 champion) are just bad losses.  Losses to Lebrun will and An Jaehyun may also one day be filed in the same cabinet, and if the losses continue, great for TT even if bad for Harimoto.  The recent Chinese legends, especially the Ma Long, Xu Xin, Zhang Jike and Fan Zhendong teams, have spoiled us with what it means to be a top 5 player.  It seems that Europe is closing the gap a little so things may become more competitive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/29/2022 at 12:21pm
https://www.yna.co.kr/view/AKR20221124094900062
At the ATTU Extraordinary Congress Meeting, it was decided the "ATTC 2023 cum Qualification Tournament for Paris 2024 and WTTC 2024" will be held in Pyeongchang, South Korea from 9/3-10.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slowhand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/29/2022 at 12:59pm
I don't think there's a reasonable argument for Harimoto to be ranked outside the top 10. There's a strong case that he's legitimate top 5. Here's the current top 10 according to Ratings Central, which takes into account bad losses as well as good wins:

1. WCQ 2997
2. ML 2988
3. FZD 2984
4. Harimoto 2896
5. LJK 2885
6. Truls 2856
7. Dima 2852
8. Timo 2824
9. Qui Dang 2818
10. Darko 2812
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2022 at 1:43am
bbkon's argument is not totally unfounded as Harimoto himself told Nikkei in an interview in 9/2021 what he needed to become a real top 5 in the world. When it comes to playing lower-ranked players, especially non-Asian players, he is still not here yet for the majority of 2022.

https://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91514&PID=1125021&title=2022-wtt-doha-events-03-1331#1125021
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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