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Wtttc : why no replay

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liulin04 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10/01/2022 at 7:38am
Why isn’t there a replay option allowed in such a big tourney. The match between Nima of Iran versus Wong CT of HK clearly favored the Hong Kong team. At 15-16, that ball did not appeared to clip the edge. I rewatched that point many times even in slow mo, and failed to see even the slightest contact. Moreover, if the ball did in fact clipped, why did Wong look so dejected after mis-returning that serve. And he even walked for a towel break. Had it really clipped, I’m sure he would have apologized instead of acting so surprised and defensive about it. No doubt, that one point turn the whole tide of the game, and gave hk the victory. Had the score been tied, I’m sure Nima would have been able to win the next two points. Many viewers from YouTube live chat also expressed their disbelief that the point wasn’t awarded to Nima, sharing my same thought.

Also, I searched on Baidu trying to see what others thought of this, didn’t find any.  But the article I found wrote Nima lost at 15-17 due to an illegal serve, completely dismissing the whole protest and unjust. Clearly there was some kind of cover up or even nepotism involved. The umpires were the biggest culprit. I was really hoping the deciding match would have gone to Iran.

What are some of your thoughts?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2022 at 4:41pm
where is the video?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liulin04 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2022 at 4:46pm
Youtube. Iran vs HK Men's. 4th match. Nima up 2-0, down 15-16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liulin04 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2022 at 5:23pm
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

where is the video?

drama begins at 2:03:44

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2022 at 6:46pm
Originally posted by liulin04 liulin04 wrote:

Why isn’t there a replay option allowed in such a big tourney. The match between Nima of Iran versus Wong CT of HK clearly favored the Hong Kong team. At 15-16, that ball did not appeared to clip the edge. I rewatched that point many times even in slow mo, and failed to see even the slightest contact. Moreover, if the ball did in fact clipped, why did Wong look so dejected after mis-returning that serve. And he even walked for a towel break. Had it really clipped, I’m sure he would have apologized instead of acting so surprised and defensive about it. No doubt, that one point turn the whole tide of the game, and gave hk the victory. Had the score been tied, I’m sure Nima would have been able to win the next two points. Many viewers from YouTube live chat also expressed their disbelief that the point wasn’t awarded to Nima, sharing my same thought.

Also, I searched on Baidu trying to see what others thought of this, didn’t find any.  But the article I found wrote Nima lost at 15-17 due to an illegal serve, completely dismissing the whole protest and unjust. Clearly there was some kind of cover up or even nepotism involved. The umpires were the biggest culprit. I was really hoping the deciding match would have gone to Iran.

What are some of your thoughts?
I don't know why the article you found would say that.  It wasn't an illegal serve.  You can hear the umpire talking to the assistant umpire, pointing to the edge, and say "touch" to indicate the ball touched the edge on Nima's side.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liulin04 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2022 at 8:34pm
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by liulin04 liulin04 wrote:

Why isn’t there a replay option allowed in such a big tourney. The match between Nima of Iran versus Wong CT of HK clearly favored the Hong Kong team. At 15-16, that ball did not appeared to clip the edge. I rewatched that point many times even in slow mo, and failed to see even the slightest contact. Moreover, if the ball did in fact clipped, why did Wong look so dejected after mis-returning that serve. And he even walked for a towel break. Had it really clipped, I’m sure he would have apologized instead of acting so surprised and defensive about it. No doubt, that one point turn the whole tide of the game, and gave hk the victory. Had the score been tied, I’m sure Nima would have been able to win the next two points. Many viewers from YouTube live chat also expressed their disbelief that the point wasn’t awarded to Nima, sharing my same thought.

Also, I searched on Baidu trying to see what others thought of this, didn’t find any.  But the article I found wrote Nima lost at 15-17 due to an illegal serve, completely dismissing the whole protest and unjust. Clearly there was some kind of cover up or even nepotism involved. The umpires were the biggest culprit. I was really hoping the deciding match would have gone to Iran.

What are some of your thoughts?
I don't know why the article you found would say that.  It wasn't an illegal serve.  You can hear the umpire talking to the assistant umpire, pointing to the edge, and say "touch" to indicate the ball touched the edge on Nima's side.  

Right?  I couldn't believe it when I read that.  Now I'm trying to find that article again, but I couldn't find it anymore.  They either revised the writing or removed it.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pondus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2022 at 9:39pm
In a sport where many of its greatest stars routinely display amazing levels of sportsmanship and fairness, I must say I'm extremely disappointed in Wong. All of his reactions clearly indicated he was aware the ball didn't hit the table, yet he proceeded to cheat Nima out of the point, potentially the game and potentially the match. Shameful behavior.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liulin04 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2022 at 10:43pm
Originally posted by Pondus Pondus wrote:

In a sport where many of its greatest stars routinely display amazing levels of sportsmanship and fairness, I must say I'm extremely disappointed in Wong. All of his reactions clearly indicated he was aware the ball didn't hit the table, yet he proceeded to cheat Nima out of the point, potentially the game and potentially the match. Shameful behavior.

Yup! Exactly! If the ball did indeed chipped the edge, Wong would have noticed and raised a finger and would have walked back to his side, instead of going for a towel break. His whole body language already showed that he knew the ball went out of bounce. That important ball ended up costing Team Iran the victory. Yes Nima still was up 2-1, but such critical point would have swayed any opponent, knowing that you had the victory stolen from you in plain sight. Wong was downright pathetic in this. If it's me, no matter how big an event is, I would never jeopardize my personal integrity for the sake of winning. Perhaps Wong watched too much NBA, learning from LeBron and Harden of those pitiful flops.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2022 at 10:55pm
It was on Nima's side of table that the ball might hit the edge. It was hard for WCT to notice whether it hit the edge or not sometimes. It happened to me many times that I did not know the ball hit the edge until my opponent told me.

The umpire might see it better. 

That is not table 1, so I assume that there is no multiple cameras for it.  It is really hard to judge for that camera angle. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liulin04 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/01/2022 at 11:21pm
Originally posted by kindof99 kindof99 wrote:

It was on Nima's side of table that the ball might hit the edge. It was hard for WCT to notice whether it hit the edge or not sometimes. It happened to me many times that I did not know the ball hit the edge until my opponent told me.

The umpire might see it better. 

That is not table 1, so I assume that there is no multiple cameras for it.  It is really hard to judge for that camera angle. 



But they still did replays after every other point before and after that particular point. Why didn't they just show the replay for that one instead of skipping them?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote penholderxxx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/02/2022 at 12:30am
" It was on Nima's side of table that the ball might hit the edge. It was hard for WCT to notice whether it hit the edge or not sometimes. It happened to me many times that I did not know the ball hit the edge until my opponent told me.

The umpire might see it better. 

That is not table 1, so I assume that there is no multiple cameras for it.  It is really hard to judge for that camera angle. " - kindof99


I like this view more.
It may very well be that the Hong Kong player as with the Iranian player thought the ball did not touch the edge of the table......and both had reacted the way they did, thinking the ball went had gone out.
From the clip, it will be extremely difficult for viewers to insist that the ball had touched the edge of the table or otherwise.
What we can observe from the communication between the umpire; who apparently either did not see the ball touch the edge or was not sure and the assistant who determined that the ball touched the edge, the umpire had then awarded the point to the Hong Kong player.
Nothing unsportsmanlike or cheating involved. 
And why would we wish to label the umpire/s as being stupid if it was that one of them saw that the ball had touched the edge of the table ?
With hindsight, the umpire could have decided to have the point replayed for she could override the assistant; possibly a better option.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/02/2022 at 12:48am
Originally posted by liulin04 liulin04 wrote:

Why isn’t there a replay option allowed in such a big tourney. The match between Nima of Iran versus Wong CT of HK clearly favored the Hong Kong team. At 15-16, that ball did not appeared to clip the edge. I rewatched that point many times even in slow mo, and failed to see even the slightest contact. Moreover, if the ball did in fact clipped, why did Wong look so dejected after mis-returning that serve. And he even walked for a towel break. Had it really clipped, I’m sure he would have apologized instead of acting so surprised and defensive about it. No doubt, that one point turn the whole tide of the game, and gave hk the victory. Had the score been tied, I’m sure Nima would have been able to win the next two points. Many viewers from YouTube live chat also expressed their disbelief that the point wasn’t awarded to Nima, sharing my same thought.

Also, I searched on Baidu trying to see what others thought of this, didn’t find any.  But the article I found wrote Nima lost at 15-17 due to an illegal serve, completely dismissing the whole protest and unjust. Clearly there was some kind of cover up or even nepotism involved. The umpires were the biggest culprit. I was really hoping the deciding match would have gone to Iran.

What are some of your thoughts?
yes, your remark there is right on point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liulin04 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/02/2022 at 4:11am
Originally posted by penholderxxx penholderxxx wrote:

" It was on Nima's side of table that the ball might hit the edge. It was hard for WCT to notice whether it hit the edge or not sometimes. It happened to me many times that I did not know the ball hit the edge until my opponent told me.

The umpire might see it better. 

That is not table 1, so I assume that there is no multiple cameras for it.  It is really hard to judge for that camera angle. " - kindof99


I like this view more.
It may very well be that the Hong Kong player as with the Iranian player thought the ball did not touch the edge of the table......and both had reacted the way they did, thinking the ball went had gone out.
From the clip, it will be extremely difficult for viewers to insist that the ball had touched the edge of the table or otherwise.
What we can observe from the communication between the umpire; who apparently either did not see the ball touch the edge or was not sure and the assistant who determined that the ball touched the edge, the umpire had then awarded the point to the Hong Kong player.
Nothing unsportsmanlike or cheating involved. 
And why would we wish to label the umpire/s as being stupid if it was that one of them saw that the ball had touched the edge of the table ?
With hindsight, the umpire could have decided to have the point replayed for she could override the assistant; possibly a better option.




Well, the controversy also surrounds whether the hk team played with some sort of home court advantage. Regardless whether or not if the ball truly clipped the edge, one couldnt help but wonder if hk received some special treatment since they played in China, and also I believe both umpires look to be Chinese.  All in all, because of such special circumstances/controversy and how critical the stake of this point is, the point should have been replayed instead of letting it decide by an uncertain umpire. Had the point been replayed, I'm sure there wouldn't have been as much of an uproar as I saw in the live chat
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/02/2022 at 11:49am
Nothing sinister here.
There's no such thing as a replay of the point in table tennis.
The Iranian appealed to the HK player as there is a guidance to umpires that says that if the players agree on an action then the umpire can go with what they say rather than her (the umpire) view of what occured. Or words to that effect. I cant be bothered to look up the exact wording.
Having said all that, it was a 'difficult' one for the umpire. It looks to me that only the assistant umpire thought it was an edge. The umpire had a choice. Go with what she and the players thought occured or go with her colleague. She backed her colleague.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/02/2022 at 8:29pm
Originally posted by Tinykin Tinykin wrote:

Nothing sinister here.
There's no such thing as a replay of the point in table tennis.
The Iranian appealed to the HK player as there is a guidance to umpires that says that if the players agree on an action then the umpire can go with what they say rather than her (the umpire) view of what occured. Or words to that effect. I cant be bothered to look up the exact wording.
Having said all that, it was a 'difficult' one for the umpire. It looks to me that only the assistant umpire thought it was an edge. The umpire had a choice. Go with what she and the players thought occured or go with her colleague. She backed her colleague.
Not quite.  You can hear the main umpire say "Both of us have the same opinion" at the 2:04:15 mark.  Both players believe the ball did not touch.  However, both umpires see it as touching the edge.  This is a very awkward and difficult situation.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/09/2022 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by Tinykin Tinykin wrote:

Nothing sinister here.
There's no such thing as a replay of the point in table tennis.
The Iranian appealed to the HK player as there is a guidance to umpires that says that if the players agree on an action then the umpire can go with what they say rather than her (the umpire) view of what occured. Or words to that effect. I cant be bothered to look up the exact wording.
Having said all that, it was a 'difficult' one for the umpire. It looks to me that only the assistant umpire thought it was an edge. The umpire had a choice. Go with what she and the players thought occured or go with her colleague. She backed her colleague.
Not quite.  You can hear the main umpire say "Both of us have the same opinion" at the 2:04:15 mark.  Both players believe the ball did not touch.  However, both umpires see it as touching the edge.  This is a very awkward and difficult situation.  


There times where umpire enforces what he/she thinks is the truth.

There are also times where umpires take into both players agreement. In this case, the umpire feels he is the truth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bard romance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/10/2022 at 5:14pm
Originally posted by Pondus Pondus wrote:

In a sport where many of its greatest stars routinely display amazing levels of sportsmanship and fairness, I must say I'm extremely disappointed in Wong. All of his reactions clearly indicated he was aware the ball didn't hit the table, yet he proceeded to cheat Nima out of the point, potentially the game and potentially the match. Shameful behavior.

One could argue that it is also a sport where many of its greatest stars also routinely display horrendous levels of sportsmanship and fairness...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/19/2022 at 10:12am
Originally posted by liulin04 liulin04 wrote:

What are some of your thoughts?

Thank you for the post, I have missed that situation. No surprise here.
Bad behaviour among good players is not from yesterday.
I had same situation in European Championship for hearing impaired players in Poland 2011.
Match was versus a czech player. Absolutely same situation I leaded 1 point after 10:10, but the difference was much more bigger. I mean, after my serving this player sent the ball +10cm out of the table and I raised my hand happily, the czech player gone back to his coach.
After I reach my coach - I saw him doing disappointed gestures to the umpired. Then I found umpire was calling us to continue the game. I couldn't believe that situation is possible. All the public in the hall protested and called powerful NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! All the people different nationalities around the barriers called the umpire - BALL WAS OOOOOUUUUUTTTTTTTT, KOLEV IS THE WINNER!

Okay, nothing help.
Of course, I lost 3:4 this match and most funny then was the next match where my CZ "friend" met the current European Champion for Hearing impaired players. He was surprised he is playing with him, because he was eyewitness of that point that I won, but he leave the hall in the same moment and didn't know umpires decided to change the match. He even asked me what's happening here ?! You was the winner. Okay, enough.

Sometimes great athletes are doing pretty worse things and you have not a door where to look for justice. So the justice is going in the God's hands.

Back in time I have posted another topic where Ma Long was with all his body and the ball out of the side line and he attacked Timo Boll's edge, then the ball dropped and he asked for a point.
Until I see Ma Long to appologize public for this behaviour - I won't post any good thing for him.
For me, after that situation, he outside of my list for sportsmanship. If I see him somewhere I will RE-play this situation and I will ask him, Excuse me, who is the point winner here? His answer then will be priceless.
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