Underspin Service Tip

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Short underspin serves are a favorite of mine, but lately they've been slipping; turns out I forgot something important:

Now, to generate heavy underspin, recall that you'll probably find it helpful to contact the ball in FRONT, and maximize contact with the rubber.  By front I mean, if the ball is falling straight down, start your contact on the bottom and brush forward towards the table with an upward motion along the front, sucking the ball along with the contact and loading it up with spin.  Maximizing contact means catching the ball on the edge closest to the front of the table, and rolling it along to the far edge of the blade face away from the table*  EDIT: the previous sentence (in red) is a potentially dangerous piece of folklore, see thread posted at bottom for more details.  The contact of ball with rubber is even in the best case quite short, there is no "rolling" to speak of.  The other details are hopefully still helpful for developing more spin in underspin service.

So as the ball descends, you make your pendulum motion concentrating all contact at the "dip" in the pendulum, moving in a small area of forward motion (rather than swinging downwards with the descent of the ball, a common mistake).  Hopefully this much is clear and remembering to contact in front will improve spin for you.

But here is the tip that I realized: as the ball is falling, especially with a high toss, you have to compensate for the fact that if the ball fully penetrates the sponge and interacts with the blade, you'll have a very hard time keeping it low.  So there is an additional element to the varieties of underspin serve, a small (very minute) amount of downward motion upon contact, to keep the ball from fully bouncing up.  This lets you convert all the downward momentum into spin + some forward momentum, thus smoothly "tossing" the ball forward as it is loaded with spin - learning to toss from a consistent height, while loading with spin, will keep the ball low as it bounces over the net.  In fact, keeping it low is probably even more important than the spin as a high serve, even with heavy spin, is not so difficult to return.

So the point is, upon contact, move the blade down ever so slightly to dampen the downward impact** (like a drop shot), while letting it penetrate enough to interact with the rubber and effectively spin.  The faster you move, the less downward motion you need, but even with a relatively relaxed swing you can consistently get lots of spin without winding up with a high serve.

Forgot this, remembered it tonite, and suddenly the underspin variations were back to a decent standard.  I believe this is what is meant in other underspin service tips when the term "cupping the ball" is used.  In any case, try it!  Any more tips, post here!

* you might have better results using less rubber real estate but contacting closer to the tip as it is moving faster - experiment and see what works for you.  EDIT: here is the confusing + wrong idea of real estate - in simple terms, use the tip to maximize spin, but it will give you smaller margin of error, practice lots to get the timing right.  Also, contacting in front is perhaps less deceptive - you can generate plenty of spin hitting from behind or directly underneath, and following through in pendulum motion, making it harder to distinguish side under and side top.  Edit: this is just speculation, try it.  By following through on the front-side, you'll make strong underspin sidespin.  And don't forget a follow through parallel to the edge of the table - that will give you cork spin.

** remember the exercise of hitting the ball high in the air, and catching it smoothly on the rubber, moving the paddle down fast enough to eat up the downward momentum of the ball making it just stop on the paddle.  This is what I mean by that downward motion to avoid bouncing the ball back up during the serve - same touch.

See here for more underspin discussions: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17230&PID=185761#185761  I'm really sorry for any confusion!

Edited by Chronos March 25, 2008

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chronos Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Gold Member Joined: 02/27/2007 Status: Offline Points: 1721	Post Options Post Reply Quote chronos Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Underspin Service Tip Posted: 01/08/2008 at 12:06am
	Short underspin serves are a favorite of mine, but lately they've been slipping; turns out I forgot something important: Now, to generate heavy underspin, recall that you'll probably find it helpful to contact the ball in FRONT, and maximize contact with the rubber. By front I mean, if the ball is falling straight down, start your contact on the bottom and brush forward towards the table with an upward motion along the front, sucking the ball along with the contact and loading it up with spin. Maximizing contact means catching the ball on the edge closest to the front of the table, and rolling it along to the far edge of the blade face away from the table* EDIT: the previous sentence (in red) is a potentially dangerous piece of folklore, see thread posted at bottom for more details. The contact of ball with rubber is even in the best case quite short, there is no "rolling" to speak of. The other details are hopefully still helpful for developing more spin in underspin service. So as the ball descends, you make your pendulum motion concentrating all contact at the "dip" in the pendulum, moving in a small area of forward motion (rather than swinging downwards with the descent of the ball, a common mistake). Hopefully this much is clear and remembering to contact in front will improve spin for you. But here is the tip that I realized: as the ball is falling, especially with a high toss, you have to compensate for the fact that if the ball fully penetrates the sponge and interacts with the blade, you'll have a very hard time keeping it low. So there is an additional element to the varieties of underspin serve, a small (very minute) amount of downward motion upon contact, to keep the ball from fully bouncing up. This lets you convert all the downward momentum into spin + some forward momentum, thus smoothly "tossing" the ball forward as it is loaded with spin - learning to toss from a consistent height, while loading with spin, will keep the ball low as it bounces over the net. In fact, keeping it low is probably even more important than the spin as a high serve, even with heavy spin, is not so difficult to return. So the point is, upon contact, move the blade down ever so slightly to dampen the downward impact** (like a drop shot), while letting it penetrate enough to interact with the rubber and effectively spin. The faster you move, the less downward motion you need, but even with a relatively relaxed swing you can consistently get lots of spin without winding up with a high serve. Forgot this, remembered it tonite, and suddenly the underspin variations were back to a decent standard. I believe this is what is meant in other underspin service tips when the term "cupping the ball" is used. In any case, try it! Any more tips, post here! * you might have better results using less rubber real estate but contacting closer to the tip as it is moving faster - experiment and see what works for you. EDIT: here is the confusing + wrong idea of real estate - in simple terms, use the tip to maximize spin, but it will give you smaller margin of error, practice lots to get the timing right. Also, contacting in front is perhaps less deceptive - you can generate plenty of spin hitting from behind or directly underneath, and following through in pendulum motion, making it harder to distinguish side under and side top. Edit: this is just speculation, try it. By following through on the front-side, you'll make strong underspin sidespin. And don't forget a follow through parallel to the edge of the table - that will give you cork spin. ** remember the exercise of hitting the ball high in the air, and catching it smoothly on the rubber, moving the paddle down fast enough to eat up the downward momentum of the ball making it just stop on the paddle. This is what I mean by that downward motion to avoid bouncing the ball back up during the serve - same touch. See here for more underspin discussions: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17230&PID=185761#185761 I'm really sorry for any confusion! Edited by Chronos March 25, 2008

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theman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Premier Member Joined: 09/22/2006 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 7234	Post Options Post Reply Quote theman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01/08/2008 at 4:20am
	thanks for the post chronos, i think i understand what spinning and scooping the ball means, ill try it tonite and c if anyone nets my serve :) nice explanation, well done, 5 stars btw, when i serve cork, what kinda return do they usually give?
	i lost my racquet Schlager u beast http://www.youtube.com/MDSguy

TAKOYAK1 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Super Member Joined: 01/02/2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 441	Post Options Post Reply Quote TAKOYAK1 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01/08/2008 at 5:07am
	wahh thanx for the tips chronos ill be serving better thanks to u

chronos Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Gold Member Joined: 02/27/2007 Status: Offline Points: 1721	Post Options Post Reply Quote chronos Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03/25/2008 at 11:50pm
	Shoot theman, didn't mean to leave this question dangling! re: cork The closest serve I've got resembling cork is executed almost like this pure underspin serve described above - I can't really do cork with a reverse pendulum, at least not with enough spin to pose a threat - similarly, my backhand serve is side-top or side-under. So imagine from here forward something looking a lot like a pure underspin serve with pendulum motion, but with a modified follow through. As I mention before, I adjust the follow through direction a bit so I contact the bottom and brush up the side closest to my body as described above. But my axis of rotation is somewhere between pure cork and underspin, I don't contact exactly parallel to the edge of the table (hopefully all this makes sense). When the ball lands on the receivers side it slows down and tends to jump sharply with the cork. For me, when I throw these in after an underspin serve, its meant to throw the receiver off because it slows somewhat and bounces so dramatically off to his right (I'm lefty) - if he misreads it as my underspin serve that can force an error as the ball isn't where he expects it when moving in for a push. If he does misread but get the paddle to it it pops up or drops into the net depending on which side. The danger with this serve is, if the receiver has his timing on point then hitting along the axis of rotation (which points essentially right at a right-hand receivers forehand corner with this serve for me) sends the ball back with a lot of the same spin that I put on, and that is usually ugly for me ;) So I mix it in less frequently and in varying degrees with underspin so the opponent doesn't catch on. Sorry, it gets pretty gnarly to explain with words. If you're righty, imagine a serve as above, somewhere between underspin and cork using pendulum motion, short on the forehand side of the right-handed receiver. Then the axis of rotation is pointing at the backhand corner.