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Asaomi View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11/08/2010 at 7:47am
I am rated 1800 in my  country, but the biggest percentage of members on this forum is from USA, and USATT rating is often referred to. Since i have no idea exactly how much these points equal to in my country, I was wondering if anyone has any videos to share of players rated 2000 USATT, or any USATT rating at all, just for me to compare. All i know is that 2000 players are decent where the game play often is more than the first 3 balls.
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I would like to see such players too, but I dont think it could help me somehow. I would rather play against them.
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There are so many parameters to make up how good a person can play, such as skill, technique, experience, physical ability, mental toughness, etc...  So I think it's hard to put a rating base on skill alone, specially on video.  However, in general (from what I am told) a 2000 level player should be able to consistently put 2-3 loop kills (in game) together.  Below 1600, it's usually, a one shot wonder Smile, so if you can consistently block back all the 3rd ball attack, then you be able give player below 1600 a lot of trouble.  Anyway, this is what I am told, so any one who know more please add you comment.
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I don't know what the game "used to look like" - but many matches I see between 2000 level players seem to focus on the 2nd and 3rd balls. Maybe a side effect of the 40mm ball and how easy it is to attack?


You can search for things like "U2100 tabletennis" or "U2000 Finals tabletennis" on youtube.

Here's what some of US2000 players look like
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHFcyi8iR64

although, at that level, there is still quite a bit of "style diversity":
For example this is a U2000 Final match betweeen  an LP blocker and ?? (someone who doesn't like playing pips?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB2QieqCUp8

U2150 match:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMVlrrmofpQ
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hmmm...i am playing a tournament this weekend. ill try take some videos of good matches and share them here, maybe someone experienced can try rate my game then.
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Definitely still a lot of style diversity at 2000. They don't mostly start looking like robot clones of each other until about 2200-2700.
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I am 1600, so you can have idea !
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Originally posted by Asaomi Asaomi wrote:

hmmm...i am playing a tournament this weekend. ill try take some videos of good matches and share them here, maybe someone experienced can try rate my game then.

You'd be surprised at the variance you get when people try to rate someone just looking at a video.

I've seen like a 500~ point difference in actual and perceived rating. 

I have a friend, his form is amazing, looks like a pro looping, but he's 1200 rated, like a very experienced player was watching him play at a tournament and guessed he was 1700-1800 rated. Then there's a guy who's rated 2100 but he hardly moves, just stand a couple steps away from the table, no fancy serves, but the shots he makes, not often moving anything but his arm, kill people.

You really can't tell from video, so many things make up how good a player is. Speed, spin, footwork, short game, strategy, consistency, control, mental game, serve variation, reading serves, etc. you can get to 2000 or so being great with just a couple of these. Someone who is super consistent and has a great short game can get to 2000 or so.


Edited by Jonan - 11/08/2010 at 1:49pm
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Originally posted by Slade Slade wrote:

Definitely still a lot of style diversity at 2000. They don't mostly start looking like robot clones of each other until about 2200-2700.
did you play any of the pac rim events yesterday and the day before? I did.
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Originally posted by Jonan Jonan wrote:


You'd be surprised at the variance you get when people try to rate someone just looking at a video.

I've seen like a 500~ point difference in actual and perceived rating. 

I have a friend, his form is amazing, looks like a pro looping, but he's 1200 rated, like a very experienced player was watching him play at a tournament and guessed he was 1700-1800 rated. Then there's a guy who's rated 2100 but he hardly moves, just stand a couple steps away from the table, no fancy serves, but the shots he makes, not often moving anything but his arm, kill people.

You really can't tell from video, so many things make up how good a player is. Speed, spin, footwork, short game, strategy, consistency, control, mental game, serve variation, reading serves, etc. you can get to 2000 or so being great with just a couple of these. Someone who is super consistent and has a great short game can get to 2000 or so.


I agree.  I watched some videos of players before I went to my first tournament so i could estimate my own rating. 

I thought for sure I could beat the 1000 level players, but the 1400 level players looked too good for me.  So I assumed I would be ~1200.  My first rating was 532  :)
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Asaomi View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Jonan Jonan wrote:

Originally posted by Asaomi Asaomi wrote:

hmmm...i am playing a tournament this weekend. ill try take some videos of good matches and share them here, maybe someone experienced can try rate my game then.

You'd be surprised at the variance you get when people try to rate someone just looking at a video.

I've seen like a 500~ point difference in actual and perceived rating. 

I have a friend, his form is amazing, looks like a pro looping, but he's 1200 rated, like a very experienced player was watching him play at a tournament and guessed he was 1700-1800 rated. Then there's a guy who's rated 2100 but he hardly moves, just stand a couple steps away from the table, no fancy serves, but the shots he makes, not often moving anything but his arm, kill people.

You really can't tell from video, so many things make up how good a player is. Speed, spin, footwork, short game, strategy, consistency, control, mental game, serve variation, reading serves, etc. you can get to 2000 or so being great with just a couple of these. Someone who is super consistent and has a great short game can get to 2000 or so.


I know what you're talking about. I have a guy in my club who is exactly the same. Good loop, but he is crap other wise (footwork, serves (here he misses way too many), speed, recovery etc.)

Theres a thing i read a while back, a philosophy if you may, that when looking at players to see if they're good or not, dont look at what shots they do make, look at what shots they MISS. Like if you can counterloop really well, but you miss 3/5 serves, you are my definition not a good player. Well, that was a drastic example, but you see the point. I often think about that myself as well. Miss a hard shot rather than an easy one.
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 Here is a video of a player rated around 2000:
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Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

did you play any of the pac rim events yesterday and the day before? I did.


Ya.. Won the U1700, got beat by a 12 year old in the U1900 and also played in 2100 and Open.

I was sitting nearby (Sunday) when you introduced yourself to David somebody. Wearing a Portland marathon shirt that day.

Agree on the video.. even at 1700ish, depending on the opponent I can look like a third ball attacker, a pure chopper, a LP attacker, a lobber, control looper, all kinds of things. Really varies. Sometimes its pretty, sometimes not.
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This is more like 2000
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QegeMKFHneE
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I can totally related to Jonan's post.  My game is really good in some aspects but fails in everything else. I digress...

Nearly all the video on my YouTube Page contain players who are rated 2000+.  Here is a video between a 2200 and a 2500.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48yxZQBU0zI
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I played a guy on saturday who was 1950 and went in fully thinking I could take him out no problem.
 
Guess who walked out with a 0-3 loss and a confused and angry look on his face... me! I feel like I'm doing the right things though. Even watching everyone play this japanese chopper- a lot of people conformed to playing push with him, and he would twiddle and their ball would net, or he would just smack it past them. Everyone changed their game. I try to play MY game 100% of the time because thats how you improve.
 
I give up on ratings- there is just too much else involved.
 
I did play the japanese old school chopper on saturday- i took video and everything to post here. My friend then texted me saying that the video isn't in his camera and he doesn't know why.
 
But everyone who had ratings on saturday just didn't make sense. Some i beat some i didn't.
 
I think unless it's over 2100, then its really more a matter of who is doing better that day and the style matchup. Also the experience of each player.
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Originally posted by Imago Imago wrote:

This is more like 2000
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QegeMKFHneE

i concur ...this is more like usatt 2000 in west coast.

the previous video could be usatt 2000 in east coast LOL
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Yeah, I agree its very difficult to judge someone's rating by watching a video (or just by watching them play.)

To me most loopers look the same between USATT 1750 and 2200. Its only when you see them play against different styles or see how consistent they are over many games, can you really tell them apart. If you are looping from both wings with decent spin and power on a consistent basis, you are most likely over 1750 USATT. That's about the only thing I can determine with any regularity.

For non-loopers, I cannot tell the difference between USATT 1200-2200, unless I look at who they are beating.

Above 2200 you can just tell they are above 2200. Around 2450 is another point when you can guess a person's rating. And my eyes popped out of my head the first time I saw someone rated 2700 play in person, who wasn't a pro.

When I watched some of the pros at the Killerspin December event, they didn't stand out as being that great, or that much better than 2500-2600, but they could keep the ball in play. Of course when it was Chen Qi's turn, he was easily a notch better than the likes of Lucjan Blaszczyhk, Andrei Fillimon, or Kamal Achanta... While those players were hitting impressive loops from mid-distance and keeping the ball in play, Chen Qi would just 3rd ball attack everything that was even a cm off the table! It was truly impressive.
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yo brandon this is ted lol. that match was really interesting to watch. personally, this is just me, i think you just were too aggressive overall on your loops. instead of picking and choosing which ones to hit really fast and flat, you threw a medium fast medium flat one almost every loop, and he won just by putting it on more often than you. then again, last time i played him, my rallies were a lot longer and my loops were more safe, and i picked and choosed the ones that i would hit flatter, and i lost 0-3. i guess whatever the strategy, in the end, you just have to play better than him that day.
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i am a lowly 1600 player. so my games are crap compared to the ones listed above...
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Originally posted by debraj debraj wrote:

Originally posted by Imago Imago wrote:

This is more like 2000
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QegeMKFHneE

i concur ...this is more like usatt 2000 in west coast.

the previous video could be usatt 2000 in east coast LOL


Washington State vs. Colorado
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB2QieqCUp8


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These 2 guys are about 2000-2100 in TX

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikl-GlS78Gw


Edited by duchoangle - 11/09/2010 at 12:31am
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Originally posted by tpgh2k tpgh2k wrote:

i am a lowly 1600 player. so my games are crap compared to the ones listed above...

no way you're rated 1600??? When was the last time you played a tournament? Your forehand looks too good to be 1600. don't f with us dude, you look 2000 level to me 
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been a long time since i played a real sanctioned tournament. to be honest i'm at best 1800. i'm not that consistent yet. i still need to work on opening bh and also blocks on the bh side. i tank too many into the net. if i get those in then i'll be closer to 2000...
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Originally posted by popperlocker popperlocker wrote:

Originally posted by tpgh2k tpgh2k wrote:

i am a lowly 1600 player. so my games are crap compared to the ones listed above...

no way you're rated 1600??? When was the last time you played a tournament? Your forehand looks too good to be 1600. don't f with us dude, you look 2000 level to me 

lol, southern 2000 level maybe  ;)   Naw, but I call that the "Asian effect" we assume Asians are higher rated/better than white guys, I think because mentally we associate them with top Asian/Chinese players. So while we think his style/his looks are like Chen Qi or whatever, if it was a white guy, we'd say he looks like Adrian Crisan or someone much worse...but that's just my crazy funny theories. 

Also you look much better in a highlight reel of you against your usual training partner than in a real match at like a tournament.
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spot on jonan. i make sure to never show you guys those anymore LOL. i like to have people think that my monster loops are 100% successful Tongue
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USATT 2000 is an elusive rating.  It's the point where you're considered "legit," it's the number that all your club mates want to be; it's where you can adapt your game accordingly to best use your game; it's where your consistency is a step above most of the people in the club; it's the light at then end of the long tunnel that's hard to reach.

Then again these things also apply every 100 points after USATT 2000. Where every 100 points is another "level."  Many 1800's and 1900's could be USATT 2000, but lack small things in their games that will push them over that benchmark; be it slow footwork, serves that go too long, pushes that are a little too high, etc.

As a personal example; I am ~USATT 1800, many of my highly ranked club mates USATT 2000+ tell me that my strokes look good, my serves are good, etc, etc.  They all tell me that I am missing something very small, something that they can't quite put their finger on, and once I "find it" that I will be at USATT 2000.  

I wish it was easy to find that "small" thing that I am lacking, but after hours of video analysis, interviewing people I have played, the small things are actually really big.  Things like pushing, footwork, anticipation are things that I need to work on.

My pushing has little spin and tend to go high; my footwork exists in practice, but I usually find myself "surprised" and running for the ball in a game; and my anticipation is not so hot; I figure though that once my anticipation improves that my in game footwork will too (achieved through lots of match play?).

Well I have taken steps to work on these items, by trying to refine my tactics by brainstorming on paper, video analysis, practice, and asking for advice from the better players at my club.  Sorry for the tangent, got a little carried away, but this is what I think USATT 2000 is.
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jeff is totally correct. it's like he's missing the glue that holds everything together. all the independent pieces are perfectly fine. but just no glue =(
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Originally posted by tpgh2k tpgh2k wrote:

jeff is totally correct. it's like he's missing the glue that holds everything together. all the independent pieces are perfectly fine. but just no glue =(
Glue... that's a nice way to put it.  Just gotta find the glue...  Do any of you guys know where to find Elmers USATT 2000 Rated Glue?Big smile.
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yes. its in china sadly....
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