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Victas V11 Extra review

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Hans Regenkurt View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06/25/2020 at 7:00pm
I was curious whether Victas has come up with something really new this year. I have no way of knowing whether this rubber is any similar to Xiom's Omega VII Pro but the two rubbers' descriptions coincide with regards to the lighter weight and there seem to be some other common points.

I tested it in max and I was a bit afraid that it was going to be a week rubber because its uncut weight was only 62 gramms (171x171). When I held it and shook it it seemed to be more elastic than standard ESN rubbers which added to my reservations. The sponge looks like it is a standard porous white Victas sponge, nothing special here. Unfortunately we only managed to put it on a custom-made ALL blade that is very light and slow so do not regard this test as complete, I will definitely try it on a faster OFF blade in the coming weeks. No tuner was applied onto the rubber.

After just a couple of hits my doubts went away quickly and I was pleasantly surprised by its power. It's hardness is about the same as other ~47 degree rubbers but it works strikingly differently compared to the usual German rubbers.

Some key differences to other ESN rubbers (Donic Bluestorm Z1, Z2; Gewo Nexxus 48, EL Hard 50 and 53; Tibhar MXP; Joola Dynaryz):

- it bites the ball a lot more than any of the above
- in its original state, it is spinnier on loops than any of the above
- loops can have a greater arc than from any of the above

To my mind, ESN rubbers have been alike in the recent years: they achieved speed through a flat trajectory with spin levels not as high as Tenergy 05. With the Victas V11 Extra, there seems to be change, which I welcome. While with most ESN rubbers you had to be a bit more careful not to hit the ball into the white of the net, the challenge is he reverse with the V11E: you have got to pay a little extra attention not to hit long. It is not difficult to do though.

It looks like it is a very enjoyable rubber if you have good looping technique and footwork. I would not recommend it to anyone who cannot handle Bluestorm Z1 or the likes.

Speed: I would say between Donic Bluestorm Z1 and Z2, maybe closer to Z1
Feel: its extreme bite sets it apart from most current ESN rubbers, I think it is more reliable
Short game: perfectly doable
Spin on slow loops: I hazard to say that is slightly spinnier than than the rubbers I listed above
Spin on faster loops: I hazard to say that is slightly spinnier than than the rubbers I listed above

The tradeoff for these  good qualities is that it is a bit slower than a Z1.








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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2020 at 10:45pm
How would you compare it with V>15 Extra? Maybe slower and spinnier?

V>15 Extra is the best BH rubber I tested so far, better than my previous Goldarc 8 50°. 
V>11 Extra seems interesting if it can generate a bit more spin than V>15E.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote notfound123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2020 at 11:40pm
Good review!  V11 is marketed by Victas as a V>15E clone that's 10% lighter. 

It's unclear from your review whether you've tried V>15 before, but everything you're saying about V>11E can be said about its bigger brother as well. I've been using V>15E for many months now (2 years to be exact) and I love it for its crazy spin and linear behavior. 

My 2600-level coach said one time that V15 is right there between a H3 and T05 in terms of spin. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2020 at 12:34am
Originally posted by notfound123 notfound123 wrote:


My 2600-level coach said one time that V15 is right there between a H3 and T05 in terms of spin. 


In what context? When used by him, or yourself? On looping, on the full range of shots? Have heard that it is still not as spinny as 05 so curious about this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2020 at 3:51am
I had a sheet of V15 some 3 years ago and I also know a coach who uses it on his BH with a layer of Falco Long on a Viscaria but his FH is still T05FX. He used to play in Italy and Austria as a pro about 20 years ago. He had T05FX on both sides but since Butterfly's prices have risen to the levels of an alternate reality he decided to get something good but a lot cheaper.

Maybe some people remember Tibhar's white sponged rubber, 1Q-XD. They launched it around 2013-14 but for an unknown reason they let go of that line of product and they kept pushing the MX-series instead. The 1QXD is very similar to Victas's V15. Funnily enough, Tibhar's ITTF registration number of 1Q is 015. Victas never dealt with MX-type of rubbers and I have a feeling they have reserved for themselves the formula of 1QXD.

So I agree that the V15 is a good rubber but there is nothing to mystify about it. One of my teammates uses it on his FH on a Fang Bo carbon blade. It is controllable, not too springy but spin levels are the same as other German rubbers. I personally prefer MXP over V15E.

V15E vs V11E:

My teammate says he prefers the V15, because it is more direct. The ball does not draw such a high curve over the table and therefore he finds it more suited to his game.

Arc on loops: V11E > V15E
Speed: seems more or less equal but let's say V15 is faster because of the directness
Topsheet stiffness: V15E > V11E
Spin on FH slow loops: V11E > V15E
Spin on FH power loops: more or less equal

Please bear in mind that they cater for different strategies and they require a somewhat different stroke because the V15E is more direct.



Edited by Hans Regenkurt - 06/26/2020 at 3:56am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2020 at 6:14am
Originally posted by Hans Regenkurt Hans Regenkurt wrote:

I had a sheet of V15 some 3 years ago and I also know a coach who uses it on his BH with a layer of Falco Long on a Viscaria but his FH is still T05FX. He used to play in Italy and Austria as a pro about 20 years ago. He had T05FX on both sides but since Butterfly's prices have risen to the levels of an alternate reality he decided to get something good but a lot cheaper.

Maybe some people remember Tibhar's white sponged rubber, 1Q-XD. They launched it around 2013-14 but for an unknown reason they let go of that line of product and they kept pushing the MX-series instead. The 1QXD is very similar to Victas's V15. Funnily enough, Tibhar's ITTF registration number of 1Q is 015. Victas never dealt with MX-type of rubbers and I have a feeling they have reserved for themselves the formula of 1QXD.

So I agree that the V15 is a good rubber but there is nothing to mystify about it. One of my teammates uses it on his FH on a Fang Bo carbon blade. It is controllable, not too springy but spin levels are the same as other German rubbers. I personally prefer MXP over V15E.

V15E vs V11E:

My teammate says he prefers the V15, because it is more direct. The ball does not draw such a high curve over the table and therefore he finds it more suited to his game.

Arc on loops: V11E > V15E
Speed: seems more or less equal but let's say V15 is faster because of the directness
Topsheet stiffness: V15E > V11E
Spin on FH slow loops: V11E > V15E
Spin on FH power loops: more or less equal

Please bear in mind that they cater for different strategies and they require a somewhat different stroke because the V15E is more direct.


Hans, could you please stop these reviews. It's forcing me to spend money that I don't want to spend.
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Comprehensive, well presented review as alwaysSmile.

>65yo, presently overweight rather than obese.
Darker Speed90 with T05H/Dignics05 and Darker Imperial with D80/D05.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shinshiro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2020 at 6:54am
Thanks for your review Smile
I have read somewhere that the idea behind V11 is to be a lighter version off V15 with similar performance.
Weight is something that is always a concern for me, and I'm glad that they released a good rubber that is on the light side.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nv42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2020 at 7:43am
Really well written review as always! Was always curious which gen esn tech the v15 was from, thanks for clearing that out. Really loved the 5q, hexer HD gen rubbers, not as much easy spin as an mx-p but really good top end spin /power. 
1.dhs pg2 fl

-FH t05h (max)
-BH tibhar genius (max)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2020 at 7:55am
Originally posted by Hans Regenkurt Hans Regenkurt wrote:

He had T05FX on both sides but since Butterfly's prices have risen to the levels of an alternate reality he decided to get something good but a lot cheaper.
Same here. I used to play with Tenergy 64 in the past but the price became a reason to change to something more affordable.

Quote I personally prefer MXP over V15E.
I´ve always heard good things about MXP but also issues about its durability. However I never tested one.

Thanks for the comparison between the Victas.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote notfound123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2020 at 10:57am
Originally posted by TT newbie TT newbie wrote:

Quote I personally prefer MXP over V15E.
I´ve always heard good things about MXP but also issues about its durability. However I never tested one.

Thanks for the comparison between the Victas.

MXP has been around forever. It has been "refreshed" recently with the launch of MXP50.. but it's the same old MXP topsheet. 

IMHO, and again this is my experience and YMMV on your blade(s)  V15 has a lot more topsheet grip than MXP, both when new and after some wear.

I think overall it's good to see various perspectives on rubbers but everyone's skill/preference is different so your own experience may be very different from what you read.



Edited by notfound123 - 06/26/2020 at 10:58am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2020 at 11:08am
Originally posted by idk idk wrote:

Originally posted by notfound123 notfound123 wrote:


My 2600-level coach said one time that V15 is right there between a H3 and T05 in terms of spin. 


In what context? When used by him, or yourself? On looping, on the full range of shots? Have heard that it is still not as spinny as 05 so curious about this.


Notfound, this may have gotten buried by a wave of replies but hope you could fill in some more details on this - thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote notfound123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2020 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by idk idk wrote:

Originally posted by idk idk wrote:

Originally posted by notfound123 notfound123 wrote:


My 2600-level coach said one time that V15 is right there between a H3 and T05 in terms of spin. 


In what context? When used by him, or yourself? On looping, on the full range of shots? Have heard that it is still not as spinny as 05 so curious about this.


Notfound, this may have gotten buried by a wave of replies but hope you could fill in some more details on this - thanks.

I used to be a Tenergy 05 user myself before I switched to Victas. Since he played against me , and regularly -- yeah the feedback was my loops were more spinny than when I was using the 05.

As I was testing some rubbers several months ago I asked another coach (2500+) to loop with 05H and V15 back to back (my blades) and I recall having more trouble blocking Victas loops. Again, just a minor observation.

Having said that... I am of the strong opinion that past certain level (say 2000) you can play with just about any modern rubber (05, MXP, R50, H3, Ryzer, etc) and you will be equally successful.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/26/2020 at 2:06pm
Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andzejgolot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/27/2020 at 5:45am
Originally posted by notfound123 notfound123 wrote:


Having said that... I am of the strong opinion that past certain level (say 2000) you can play with just about any modern rubber (05, MXP, R50, H3, Ryzer, etc) and you will be equally successful.  


yup this is not good information for EJ but this is perfect point of view.
choose hardness that you like, choose blade that you like and you shouldnt think too much
in my perspective in Poland there is a lot of players that use tenergy (more special kick and arc than rotation or durability) and they have AL type butterfly blade which throw is high= Timo Boll Spark, Innerforce Layer AL, Bazelart, so they have hard to win with better players but they don't loose with worse players or players with similiar level
The topic is about Victas V11. I really like this brand but they rise price and for me this is not the best option but  I will probably buy  sheet
because this is first exclusive brand in my eyes  and marketing is very important.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2020 at 2:09pm
Hans, what is cut weight? Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2020 at 4:05pm
43-44 grams cut to a 157x150 blade.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote piligrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/16/2020 at 5:07pm
Thank you very much!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote notfound123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2020 at 2:41pm
There is a nice video out there on youtube reviewing V11 by one of the Victas pros. And probably comparing it to the V15... Too bad I don't understand Japanese.


Here is another one... The reviewer is also pretty high level.



Edited by notfound123 - 07/17/2020 at 2:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote notfound123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2020 at 2:52pm
Pulled from one of the video comments:

(I'm not good at English, so there may be something strange.) In this video, Matsudaira, Kenji compares V11 Extra with V15 Extra. V11 is 5g lighter than V15 and easy to control the ball. Even if the way he hits is unstable, it returns the ball stably. However, the acceleration of the returned ball is a little less than V15. Finally, considering that V11 is lighter, he says that it is no wonder that he uses it practically.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ludo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2020 at 3:58pm
Here is the article associated with Matsudaira's review:

It's in Japanese but easily translated with Google Translate.

I play with V15 Extra 2.0mm (both sides) on a Victas Koki Niwa Wood blade. Total weight is 185g and it's slightly too heavy for me so logically, I am waiting for the V11 Extra.
Got an opportunity to test V11 Extra on a Def blade (Tibhar PWD) so not exactly comparable with my blade but I think I got a good idea about V11 Extra.
The weight difference is extremely noticeable. The V11 Extra 2.0mm black uncut was 58g and estimated at 40-42g cut (bigger blade size). That's close to 10g lighter than each of my V15 Extra sheets!!

Overall, I found the feel to be very slightly harder (harder sponge but softer sponge) but the V11E sheet was brand new so that may explain it.
V15E and V11E are better as BH rubbers (lower throw).
V11E has less power so the trajectory is slightly higher but is shorter (vs V15E).
V11E topsheet seems to grip the ball better; it reminded me of V01 Limber.

Playing with a fast 7ply blade, V11 Extra will be a great choice for me in order to shave at least 10g with two sheets without losing speed.
Definitely my next rubber!




Edited by ludo - 07/17/2020 at 4:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nv42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/18/2020 at 6:22am
So is the v11 similar to the latest gen thin topsheet rubbers? 
1.dhs pg2 fl

-FH t05h (max)
-BH tibhar genius (max)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/19/2020 at 5:21pm
Originally posted by Tinykin Tinykin wrote:

Originally posted by Hans Regenkurt Hans Regenkurt wrote:

I had a sheet of V15 some 3 years ago and I also know a coach who uses it on his BH with a layer of Falco Long on a Viscaria but his FH is still T05FX. He used to play in Italy and Austria as a pro about 20 years ago. He had T05FX on both sides but since Butterfly's prices have risen to the levels of an alternate reality he decided to get something good but a lot cheaper.

Maybe some people remember Tibhar's white sponged rubber, 1Q-XD. They launched it around 2013-14 but for an unknown reason they let go of that line of product and they kept pushing the MX-series instead. The 1QXD is very similar to Victas's V15. Funnily enough, Tibhar's ITTF registration number of 1Q is 015. Victas never dealt with MX-type of rubbers and I have a feeling they have reserved for themselves the formula of 1QXD.

So I agree that the V15 is a good rubber but there is nothing to mystify about it. One of my teammates uses it on his FH on a Fang Bo carbon blade. It is controllable, not too springy but spin levels are the same as other German rubbers. I personally prefer MXP over V15E.

V15E vs V11E:

My teammate says he prefers the V15, because it is more direct. The ball does not draw such a high curve over the table and therefore he finds it more suited to his game.

Arc on loops: V11E > V15E
Speed: seems more or less equal but let's say V15 is faster because of the directness
Topsheet stiffness: V15E > V11E
Spin on FH slow loops: V11E > V15E
Spin on FH power loops: more or less equal

Please bear in mind that they cater for different strategies and they require a somewhat different stroke because the V15E is more direct.


Hans, could you please stop these reviews. It's forcing me to spend money that I don't want to spend.
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Comprehensive, well presented review as alwaysSmile.



Thank you for the kind words Smile Hopefully I won't chase anyone into going broke Big smile

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/19/2020 at 5:40pm
Originally posted by nv42 nv42 wrote:

So is the v11 similar to the latest gen thin topsheet rubbers? 


No, if you look at their thickness scale, they offer 2.0 and max, instead of the 2.1 and max+ for the thin-topsheet stuff.

The V11 is different. I will try to  summarise the difference between it the likes of Bluestorm Z1 and Z2 (I use these usually) but I could mention R47 or Joola's Rhyzer 48:

Z1 / Z2 / Rasanter 47 / Rhyzer 48: they are springy rubbers, have some bite (a bit vague sometimes) but they are not really accurate and spin is not the easiest to get out of them at low impact (this is where Butterfly products beat them). Their topsheet is softer compared to Joola Dynaryz AGR or Rasanter 48.

Rasanter 48 / Dynaryz AGR: not so springy rubbers, their bite is much more predicatble, a lot easier to get spin out of them at low impact. Their topsheet is harder to the group of rubbers above. The Joola AGR specifically can have 15% more top-end speed when boosted compared to a boosted Z1.

The V11 Extra: not so springy, the bite is excellent compared to the lot above, it gives you significantly more possibilities in terms of placement and loop trajectory. Maybe 10% less direct compared to a Z1 or V15 but the gains outweigh this.

I will be able to test out the V11 on a fast ALC blade in two weeks hopefully, there will be a Z1 on the other side. I will report back then.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nv42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/19/2020 at 8:26pm
Perfect! Thats a good comparison, exactly what I was looking for.

 Glad to see that the new joola agr and the victas v11 have better topsheets compared to the last gen, those thin soft topsheets dint enable much on softer brushier shots.

Also, I quite like how the gewo nexxus 53H plays compared to most of the older thin topsheet tensors I've tried, would you say the agr and v11 have similar or better topsheets overall? ( particularly for brushy strokes). 


Edited by nv42 - 07/19/2020 at 9:13pm
1.dhs pg2 fl

-FH t05h (max)
-BH tibhar genius (max)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ericto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/20/2020 at 12:01pm
just tried v15e 2.0 on jsk blade with light long pips on bh; it did not seem to have enuf power when i am backed away from table as compared to t5, am i suppose to boost v15e

Thanks
Got to 1600 with long pips Sept 2019;

Trying to get to 1800
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote notfound123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/20/2020 at 2:03pm
Originally posted by ericto ericto wrote:

just tried v15e 2.0 on jsk blade with light long pips on bh; it did not seem to have enuf power when i am backed away from table as compared to t5, am i suppose to boost v15e

Thanks

This is slightly offtopic since OP posted re V11E not V15, but I can tell you V15E (right out of package) does not need any boosting. It has plenty of power even on DEF blades. It is quite linear i.e. catapult is not extreme on slow shots but there is definitely plenty of it when you loop properly with power.  

After ~3 months it starts lacking power and you can boost it some but that usually means it's time to replace it due to the topsheet wear anyway. 

hope this helps.

p.s. i am around ~2000 usatt and use it on a def blade.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/20/2020 at 5:34pm
Originally posted by nv42 nv42 wrote:

Perfect! Thats a good comparison, exactly what I was looking for.

 Glad to see that the new joola agr and the victas v11 have better topsheets compared to the last gen, those thin soft topsheets dint enable much on softer brushier shots.

Also, I quite like how the gewo nexxus 53H plays compared to most of the older thin topsheet tensors I've tried, would you say the agr and v11 have similar or better topsheets overall? ( particularly for brushy strokes). 


The Nexus HARD EL 53 is a disappointment to me. I found it not to be better than the 50 and in general, I do not see the benefits of the 53 degree sponge. My answer may not be relevant to you because I boost all my rubbers. The only exception is the rubbers I test for the first time.

With that in mind, I think both the AGR and the V11 surpass the Nexus 53.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nv42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/21/2020 at 3:15am
Great, just what I wanted to know. Thanks a tonne for the feedback. Eager to give the agr a try. Also, can't believe joola was the first to introduce such a rubber. 
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-FH t05h (max)
-BH tibhar genius (max)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andzejgolot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/21/2020 at 7:22pm
joola did the work with rhyzer 48. Perfect durability and good performance. Joola open USA market and they rise their prices so maybe they know if they invest in ESN company they will have the best quality so this is win-win situation..  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sedis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2020 at 4:53am
I tried a sheet of V11 Extra in 2.0mm on a spare blade last night, as the lighter weight is very attractive to me.

I can make some comparisons to the Andro Hexer Powergrip I had on my regular set up and Tibhar MXP which I was using previously.

Speed wise, it is still fairly fast despite the lighter weight, ≥ Andro Hexer Powergrip in 2.1mm. Initially I found shots going a little long, but I think this was more to do with the trajectory than a significant increase in speed

I measured the sponge hardness at 48° Shore O, which is just a touch harder than the result I got for Andro Hexer Powergrip, unsurprisingly they feel very similar to play with in that regard. Both feel very slightly softer than MXP.

In terms of the bite or grab of the topsheet, it sort of sits halfway between the recent thinner type top sheets and more traditional ones. It was certainly very easy to generate my own spin with, I didn't find it quite as easy to lift backspin with compared to Hexer PG, but that could just be down to adjusting to the rubber.

Overall I think this rubber has an enormous amount of potential for people wanting high performance but lightweight rubbers, it will be interesting to see how well it lasts, but recent ESN rubbers seem to have been quite good in that regard, so hopefully this will be the same.


Edited by Sedis - 07/31/2020 at 4:55am
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