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Why do the Chinese top players use H3???

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/13/2015 at 12:01pm
Originally posted by 42andbackpains 42andbackpains wrote:

I have used a tensor(Adidas P7 & Ultra tenzone sf) when i first started playing again last year and was still using the celluloid ball. Spin was adequate until our club changed to the new polyball. Then i felt like my loops werent as spinny and missing the higher arc. My coach and many of our clubmates use H3 neo. So i changed to H3 neo and felt like OMG, the spin is back as well as the high arc. Problem with H3 is that the rubber is unplayable unboosted. 

You will get the same effect with any high grip/tack topsheet rubber.  Try MX-S or Big Dipper.  EvenTenergy 05.  Racket speed is also critical here - the arc will be less with the new ball but you have to compensate with faster racket speed.  As someone pointed out, this might be causing some players to have more injuries.

With good contact on H3 with the harder sponges, it isn't so much the raw spin that is key, but the fact that you can continue to brush harder and harder with fairly thick contact and still get good spin.  If you have that kind of power and hand speed and hit the ball that way ALL the time, it helps but if not, you will be struggling when you only have the energy to flick the ball with the wrist and need to generate real spin. That's why I avoid going beyond 38 deg DHS or 50 deg Euro - beyond that, I know I will be struggling too much when I am too tired to play and can only use my wrist.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/13/2015 at 12:04pm
Originally posted by ahsq ahsq wrote:

I wont convince you until you play with me. sometimes having a skill set elevates a person's attitude on others, much like those old ancient chinese kung fu masters "oooh I can whop you into a pulp"...I say to them"and I have an uzi."

no. QC was 1/10.

You won't convince me by playing against me - this has nothing to do with you or how you play.  If your argument is "I've used H3 commercial unboosted and it sucked, so the CNT's rubber must be totally different" then...

If that commercial H3 is boosted to the same degree as ML's competition rubber, then you might have had a different experience.  Or it could be how you hit the ball - H3 isn't for everyone.  Doesn't matter really.  Your personal experience is proof of your personal experience.

I don't expect you (or anyone) to believe my idea about H3 being linked to the CNT's philosophy either.  These are all just opinions.  I'm just spelling out why your position seems particularly unconvincing in the grand sweep of unconvincing opinions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/13/2015 at 12:15pm
Originally posted by MLfan MLfan wrote:


Haha, no problem. Everybody's entitled to his/her beliefs. The CNT use H3 because of spin, not because of contracts/sponsorships/whatnot. The spin that is produced from H3 is harder to block when compared to grippy rubbers because tacky rubbers make the ball go downwards instead of forwards when it hits the table. 

Actually, that is a property of heavy topspin balls, not tacky rubbers.  When a rubber is grippy and slow, it creates a heavy topspin ball naturally as it naturally imparts more spin than speed for a given stroke.  However, that means that a lot of the speed/power must come the stroke as opposed to the elasticity of the sponge/topsheet. So if you are a highly athletic ball bashing thick brush looper, tacky rubbers are for you (most CNT forehands).  But people with shorter movements  (most Euro forehands) aren't going to like them because of the demands for brushing and doing larger strokes fairly consistently.

Again, this is not magic - it's simple logic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/13/2015 at 12:16pm
Originally posted by MLfan MLfan wrote:

If the custom-made H3 aren't that much better, why do the main players of the CNT insist on using them? No CNT player plays with provincial H3, just as no provincial player plays with commercial H3. Boosting can only do so much. Rubbers obviously won't make an average player play really well all of a sudden, but there definitely is a difference between something like provincial and commercial H3. To the skeptics out there, why don't you guys just try it lol...provincial rubbers feel so different compared to commercial ones. 

And the CNT use H3 because of what its spin can do to the ball. Spin produced by H3 makes the ball go downwards, not forwards. Also, service and short game is better due to sticky topsheet. These are the main reasons for using H3. 

As for Timo Boll, I have no idea what tenergy he plays with because I only care about the CNT lol. But it may very well be the tenergy that the japanese team gets. 

I used to buy H3 provincial because it had better sheet-to-sheet QC and it needed slightly less breaking in.  H3 commercial QC has improved a lot in the last 5 years and I don't feel it's necessary any more, and these days it's more of a case of "look at me with the sheet of provincial/blue sponge, aren't I clever?"

Also, it's fine to say "just try it", but obtaining a reliable source of Provincial is hard, let alone National.  Chances of a fake are high.  Easy to say, hard to do in practice, and you're the one making claims.  You back them up if being taken seriously matters to you.  Otherwise there will always be healthy skepticism about this subject.

FWIW I think you're probably right about national sheets and custom orders.  What degree of difference does it make?  Not enough to make it important to an amateur.  Small percentages at the top end only.  Boosting has a big impact on H3, but the pro stuff is probably just small tinkering in comparison.  Important to the pros, but almost vanishingly inconsequential to amateurs.

I find the mythology around national sheets silly and childish, and people get ripped off based on rumour and gossip.  Better than commercial?  Yes, probably.  Worlds away from commercial?  No.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roger Stillabower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/13/2015 at 12:40pm
I buy H3 Nat. from AliExpress and Prov. blue sponge from TTnPP, yea they are probably fake and I ain't no pro just an old man that loves tt, but I hate H3 commercial rubbers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/13/2015 at 3:34pm
What do you suppose would happen if the CNT ran out of H3 Nat. at the WC or the WTC?  Would they then be SOL or USCWP?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote unstopabl3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/13/2015 at 3:56pm
Originally posted by MLfan MLfan wrote:

Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

Originally posted by MLfan MLfan wrote:

lol chop4ever, DHS never meant for provincial/national versions to be used by the public...

and well said tack_and_grip :)


I for one am not attacking you. Just discussing. Can we agree to disagree? I suspect the truth is probably a little bit of what you are saying, but I still do not believe that any European/Japanese team or players could not get the best DHS sheets available if they really wanted them. I suspect the Chinese know that their dominance is not based on equipment and I doubt the government is blocking such "classified' top secret rubber. 

I certainly agree with others that H3 is used primarily due to contracts/sponsorship and by the fact that top players from China have used it in a the past and we all want to use what the stars use.

I also doubt that there is a higher grade tenergy only available to the Japanese team:)

Haha, no problem. Everybody's entitled to his/her beliefs. The CNT use H3 because of spin, not because of contracts/sponsorships/whatnot. The spin that is produced from H3 is harder to block when compared to grippy rubbers because tacky rubbers make the ball go downwards instead of forwards when it hits the table. 


What other rubber does this other than these chinese rubbers?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 42andbackpains Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/13/2015 at 3:57pm
Originally posted by berndt_mann berndt_mann wrote:

What do you suppose would happen if the CNT ran out of H3 Nat. at the WC or the WTC?  Would they then be SOL or USCWP?

Never would happen!!! China will send in there stealth bombers and parachute in specially trained Ninja Pandas to deliver freshly manufactured center cut H3 National Blue sponge sheets with self exploding embedded bombs if it does not reach the China Team.....Just saying.TongueLOLWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/13/2015 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

Put T05 onto the CNT's forehands and they'd be blasting everything long.
IMHO (& I may be wrong), but I'll think that they'll be blasting everything into the net. T05, with their stroke speed would occasionally bottom out.


Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

Put H3 (of any variety) onto a high level euro pro's blade and they would struggle to generate speed.  

I don't know: this puppy (H3 Prov, 38 deg) was at day 8 here of the boosting cycle & still hadn't flattened (you should have seen it at days 2 & 3). I can tell you after putting it on that it felt a whole lot more powerful than T05 (which was on the other side).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/13/2015 at 4:44pm
Can you guess who is using Tenergy in this match and who is using Hurricane?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/13/2015 at 5:50pm
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

Put T05 onto the CNT's forehands and they'd be blasting everything long.
IMHO (& I may be wrong), but I'll think that they'll be blasting everything into the net. T05, with their stroke speed would occasionally bottom out.

Ah yes, possibly.  It's more a question of strokes being as they are and what they're used to. 

Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

Put H3 (of any variety) onto a high level euro pro's blade and they would struggle to generate speed.  

I don't know: this puppy (H3 Prov, 38 deg) was at day 8 here of the boosting cycle & still hadn't flattened (you should have seen it at days 2 & 3). I can tell you after putting it on that it felt a whole lot more powerful than T05 (which was on the other side).


I was thinking more about straight drives and the tack holding the ball up.  That sheet looks ready to pop though.  Good old #20 sponge, eh?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vvk1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/13/2015 at 6:18pm
Originally posted by unstopabl3 unstopabl3 wrote:

Originally posted by MLfan MLfan wrote:

Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

Originally posted by MLfan MLfan wrote:

lol chop4ever, DHS never meant for provincial/national versions to be used by the public...

and well said tack_and_grip :)


I for one am not attacking you. Just discussing. Can we agree to disagree? I suspect the truth is probably a little bit of what you are saying, but I still do not believe that any European/Japanese team or players could not get the best DHS sheets available if they really wanted them. I suspect the Chinese know that their dominance is not based on equipment and I doubt the government is blocking such "classified' top secret rubber. 

I certainly agree with others that H3 is used primarily due to contracts/sponsorship and by the fact that top players from China have used it in a the past and we all want to use what the stars use.

I also doubt that there is a higher grade tenergy only available to the Japanese team:)

Haha, no problem. Everybody's entitled to his/her beliefs. The CNT use H3 because of spin, not because of contracts/sponsorships/whatnot. The spin that is produced from H3 is harder to block when compared to grippy rubbers because tacky rubbers make the ball go downwards instead of forwards when it hits the table. 


What other rubber does this other than these chinese rubbers?


Any grippy inverted rubber, even Mark V, in the hands of a skilled player.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chop4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/13/2015 at 7:51pm
Originally posted by MLfan MLfan wrote:

If the custom-made H3 aren't that much better, why do the main players of the CNT insist on using them? No CNT player plays with provincial H3, just as no provincial player plays with commercial H3. Boosting can only do so much. Rubbers obviously won't make an average player play really well all of a sudden, but there definitely is a difference between something like provincial and commercial H3. To the skeptics out there, why don't you guys just try it lol...provincial rubbers feel so different compared to commercial ones.



And the CNT use H3 because of what its spin can do to the ball. Spin produced by H3 makes the ball go downwards, not forwards. Also, service and short game is better due to sticky topsheet. These are the main reasons for using H3.




As for Timo Boll, I have no idea what tenergy he plays with because I only care about the CNT lol. But it may very well be the tenergy that the japanese team gets.


We have seen ML's bats by timeline, and there was orange sponge H3 for a long time. So does FZD, he use normal H3 to defeat the current CNT to be one of them. Is that the matter?

Edited by chop4ever - 07/13/2015 at 7:52pm
There is no real "pro", "prov" or "NT" H3 in the market.
Falco is not a booster
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chop4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/13/2015 at 8:02pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Actually, that is a property of heavy topspin balls, not tacky rubbers.  When a rubber is grippy and slow, it creates a heavy topspin ball naturally as it naturally imparts more spin than speed for a given stroke.  However, that means that a lot of the speed/power must come the stroke as opposed to the elasticity of the sponge/topsheet. So if you are a highly athletic ball bashing thick brush looper, tacky rubbers are for you (most CNT forehands).  But people with shorter movements  (most Euro forehands) aren't going to like them because of the demands for brushing and doing larger strokes fairly consistently.

Again, this is not magic - it's simple logic.

Agreed!

And this is my two cent.

The Chinese rubber like H3 is very consistent and stable, if it is hard enough. Don't ask me why your D39 boosted H3 has betrayed you, all CNT use D41 and they use only for a short rubber life time. You place the ball to where you want and how much spin you wish. By thousands hours practice, what I need is a reliable weapon, not a super powerful one.

H3 behaves like manual gear car and none of racing car is automatic gear.

Edited by chop4ever - 07/13/2015 at 8:05pm
There is no real "pro", "prov" or "NT" H3 in the market.
Falco is not a booster
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