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2019 World Championships - USATT

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    Posted: 04/09/2019 at 9:29pm
Hi,

In the just posted article on the USATT website on the new rankings of the USATT team members, and their opportunity at the World's, this is stated:

"It will also present an opportunity for Tio, Kumar, Amy and Crystal Wang and Victor Liu - to advance their world rankings at the premier table tennis championship event. "

I just checked the entries on the ITTF website, and I could not locate Crystal Wang's name as representing the USA.

Thanks,
Donn

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vince64 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/09/2019 at 9:42pm
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Hi,

In the just posted article on the USATT website on the new rankings of the USATT team members, and their opportunity at the World's, this is stated:

"It will also present an opportunity for Tio, Kumar, Amy and Crystal Wang and Victor Liu - to advance their world rankings at the premier table tennis championship event. "

I just checked the entries on the ITTF website, and I could not locate Crystal Wang's name as representing the USA.

Thanks,
She chose to play in the junior & cadet tournament in France this week instead of the WTTC. The main factor was this week happens to be spring break week for her school so doesn’t actually miss any school.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2019 at 7:41am
Originally posted by Vince64 Vince64 wrote:

Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Hi,

In the just posted article on the USATT website on the new rankings of the USATT team members, and their opportunity at the World's, this is stated:

"It will also present an opportunity for Tio, Kumar, Amy and Crystal Wang and Victor Liu - to advance their world rankings at the premier table tennis championship event. "

I just checked the entries on the ITTF website, and I could not locate Crystal Wang's name as representing the USA.

Thanks,
She chose to play in the junior & cadet tournament in France this week instead of the WTTC. The main factor was this week happens to be spring break week for her school so doesn’t actually miss any school.

I'm confused as to why on April 9th the USATT reported otherwise.
Donn

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2019 at 8:51am
What I am wondering is surely USATT could have found someone to take .her place. This is the world championship!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2019 at 9:07am
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

What I am wondering is surely USATT could have found someone to take .her place. This is the world championship!

Thank you for the comment.  Yes, I agree, I find this confusing too: The fourth position is paid for by the player, so the player is the source of the required funds.  

I know that if my daughter was eligible for the World's in this case, she would be going to the World's.

Thanks,
Donn

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Purett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2019 at 11:56am
us is a 3 world country for table tennis
rating solid 1000
moving up to 1001
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2019 at 1:05pm
Originally posted by Purett Purett wrote:

us is a 3 world country for table tennis
 
I would love to see a spending breakdown by country. I don't know if the information is even available.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Purett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/11/2019 at 6:35pm
Originally posted by jfolsen jfolsen wrote:

Originally posted by Purett Purett wrote:

us is a 3 world country for table tennis
 
I would love to see a spending breakdown by country. I don't know if the information is even available.
a friend from togo is going to the worlds 
and his country pay's for all the expenses 
rating solid 1000
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/11/2019 at 6:54pm
Originally posted by Purett Purett wrote:

Originally posted by jfolsen jfolsen wrote:

Originally posted by Purett Purett wrote:

us is a 3 world country for table tennis
 
I would love to see a spending breakdown by country. I don't know if the information is even available.
a friend from togo is going to the worlds 
and his country pay's for all the expenses 
would that make the US a 4th world country for table tennis? the positive side of it is there is room to grow, we are not under stress and we play at peace, not afraid of being watched by glory hungry Japanese gunners wanting to take us down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FruitLoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/11/2019 at 9:11pm
Don't spend all your budget on CEO wages. Just a thought.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2019 at 2:14pm
It looks like we are only sending three women.  If the USATT is spending any money to send players to tournaments it should spend it on the world championships.  Whoever is making these decisions has lost their mind. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Purett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2019 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

Originally posted by Purett Purett wrote:

Originally posted by jfolsen jfolsen wrote:

Originally posted by Purett Purett wrote:

us is a 3 world country for table tennis
 
I would love to see a spending breakdown by country. I don't know if the information is even available.
a friend from togo is going to the worlds 
and his country pay's for all the expenses 
would that make the US a 4th world country for table tennis? the positive side of it is there is room to grow, we are not under stress and we play at peace, not afraid of being watched by glory hungry Japanese gunners wanting to take us down.
the ceo makes 200k 
in order to grow we need to spend the money on players not ceo's
rating solid 1000
moving up to 1001
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2019 at 3:46pm
Originally posted by Lightspin Lightspin wrote:

It looks like we are only sending three women.  If the USATT is spending any money to send players to tournaments it should spend it on the world championships.  

Why? 

From what I see, the USATT players are very busy in the international circuit. More importantly: they are playing the right tournaments and not ones in which they shall most likely get knocked out in the 1st round.

A few years ago, I talked to a well-known US player who was just selected to go to the WTTC to represent US men. He refused to go (and probably played in Westchester instead). I asked him why and he said 'What's the point? Go all the way there to get knocked out in the 1st round, at best?'

Of course, pro players like Kanak and Lily should go. But why should a HS senior go (when he's basically going to give up the game in a couple of years)? It would be good experience for him, but what would it do for USATT?

Originally posted by Purett Purett wrote:

the ceo makes 200k 
in order to grow we need to spend the money on players not ceo's

And why shouldn't the CEO make $200k? Are we still living in the 80s and 90s? Does anyone know what the cost of living is in the tri-state area and in CA?

If anything, they need to laden up the performance-based incentives portion of the contract for the next guy so that he has opportunity to make much, much more (and tie up his pay much more to the revenue he brings in). Then, bring in a aggressive sales guy (perhaps from Wall St) with top-level corporate contacts. Let him make $1MM - $2MM. 'cause if he does, that means that the USATT raked it in. Most likely, even that shall be a pay cut for him. Then have 'junior' but more experienced TT insiders figure out what to do with that money that he brought in.


Edited by slevin - 04/12/2019 at 4:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2019 at 3:58pm
Why?

If the USATT wants to improve table tennis, it should at least send the maximum number of participants possible to the world championships.  If an association cannot field a complete team for the world championships, then that association is in trouble.  If the #4 person doesn't want to go, keep asking players until someone agrees to go.  They should at least field a complete team.  Of course the team is going to get annihilated early on but at least participate.   If the argument against sending a 4th player is that they are going to lose early then we shouldn't even field a team in the first place. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kyle90 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2019 at 4:09pm
I wonder how far in advance the players knew they wouldn’t get any USATT funding to attend the WTTC? If someone like Taylor Wang knew getting 3rd place at the team trials wouldn’t get her a funded slot do you think she would have flown across the country to the trials to begin with? I think USATT needs to be more transparent with their decisions to fund certain athketes and select teams. Let’s say someone makes the team but doesn’t get funded, how long will USATT give them to make their decision? I’m sure given adequate time some sort of crowdfunding may have worked.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2019 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by Lightspin Lightspin wrote:

If the argument against sending a 4th player is that they are going to lose early then we shouldn't even field a team in the first place.  

Not true. There is always a chance that Kanak and a couple of the girls could string up some upsets. A complete waste of time for the others from the POV of their development.

Another thing: the economics in the US are quite different than that in the rest of the world. No funding here for stuff that does not generate money. Forget the cost of going to the WTTC - that is completely dwarfed by the cost their parents bore to train them. I know juniors in my state who spend $25 - 40k in year in training alone. A lot of these kids are in the US team precisely because their parents can afford this 'frivolous' (in terms of value for money) expense of going to the worlds.

In fact, I like what how the USATT is developing the players - encouraging that they participate in good European leagues sometime during the year. That experience (spending a couple of months with pros thinking and breathing nothing but TT) over a season changes them and not one night in WTTC. Quite a few went to Germany this past year. Who knows, it might even sway a couple of them to turn pro (as Lily just did, I think).


Edited by slevin - 04/12/2019 at 4:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2019 at 5:09pm
From what I know Taylor was quite surprised she would have to pay her way, pay for her hotel and pay for training camps.  I am pretty sure had she known she would not have traveled to California to play in the ranking tournament.  However maybe someone who knows her can ask her directly. 

The HPD or HPC should have went down the list of women and asked them if they would self fund until a 4th player was found.  We should field a complete team.  We look idiotic to not be able to field 4 players from the entire USA.  The argument that there is no quality player to pick is just silly.  Picking someone is better than having no one. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Purett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2019 at 6:36pm
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Originally posted by Lightspin Lightspin wrote:

It looks like we are only sending three women.  If the USATT is spending any money to send players to tournaments it should spend it on the world championships.  

Why? 

From what I see, the USATT players are very busy in the international circuit. More importantly: they are playing the right tournaments and not ones in which they shall most likely get knocked out in the 1st round.

A few years ago, I talked to a well-known US player who was just selected to go to the WTTC to represent US men. He refused to go (and probably played in Westchester instead). I asked him why and he said 'What's the point? Go all the way there to get knocked out in the 1st round, at best?'

Of course, pro players like Kanak and Lily should go. But why should a HS senior go (when he's basically going to give up the game in a couple of years)? It would be good experience for him, but what would it do for USATT?

Originally posted by Purett Purett wrote:

the ceo makes 200k 
in order to grow we need to spend the money on players not ceo's

And why shouldn't the CEO make $200k? Are we still living in the 80s and 90s? Does anyone know what the cost of living is in the tri-state area and in CA?

If anything, they need to laden up the performance-based incentives portion of the contract for the next guy so that he has opportunity to make much, much more (and tie up his pay much more to the revenue he brings in). Then, bring in a aggressive sales guy (perhaps from Wall St) with top-level corporate contacts. Let him make $1MM - $2MM. 'cause if he does, that means that the USATT raked it in. Most likely, even that shall be a pay cut for him. Then have 'junior' but more experienced TT insiders figure out what to do with that money that he brought in.
the usatt had a 1.9m revenue last year from that 10% went to ceo
how much did go to the players?
how is the sport going to grow if there's no return for the players



Edited by Purett - 04/12/2019 at 6:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2019 at 8:28pm
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Originally posted by Lightspin Lightspin wrote:

If the argument against sending a 4th player is that they are going to lose early then we shouldn't even field a team in the first place.  

Not true. There is always a chance that Kanak and a couple of the girls could string up some upsets. A complete waste of time for the others from the POV of their development.

Another thing: the economics in the US are quite different than that in the rest of the world. No funding here for stuff that does not generate money. Forget the cost of going to the WTTC - that is completely dwarfed by the cost their parents bore to train them. I know juniors in my state who spend $25 - 40k in year in training alone. A lot of these kids are in the US team precisely because their parents can afford this 'frivolous' (in terms of value for money) expense of going to the worlds.

In fact, I like what how the USATT is developing the players - encouraging that they participate in good European leagues sometime during the year. That experience (spending a couple of months with pros thinking and breathing nothing but TT) over a season changes them and not one night in WTTC. Quite a few went to Germany this past year. Who knows, it might even sway a couple of them to turn pro (as Lily just did, I think).

I agree you 100%.  Very good points.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FruitLoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/12/2019 at 8:45pm
Imagine not going to participate in what would be the pinnacle of your TT career and instead playing in some local tournament in Westchester instead because what's the point? Jesus the loser mentality is beyond belief. No wonder they don't achieve anything with that absolutely horrendous attitude. Someone needed to slap that person. It's laugh out loud embarrassing.

And also wants to pay the CEO more than the already horrendously overinflated wage? Who cares what the cost of living is in the tristate area in most countries it's a voluntary position. Bring in Wall st guys ROFL what are they going to do? Someone has drunk the neo capitalist kool aid bigtime. Someone random from Wall St would bring negative value to the organisation, Jesus it's not an investment bank. Amazing how some people think the world works.

I know two people who have been to worlds, they played a lot more than one match and also got to train for long periods with a large variety of top class opposition. It was a phenomenal experience.


Edited by FruitLoop - 04/12/2019 at 8:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/13/2019 at 12:46am
Originally posted by FruitLoop FruitLoop wrote:

Imagine not going to participate in what would be the pinnacle of your TT career and instead playing in some local tournament in Westchester instead because what's the point? Jesus the loser mentality is beyond belief. No wonder they don't achieve anything with that absolutely horrendous attitude. Someone needed to slap that person. It's laugh out loud embarrassing.
 

Loser mentality? They don't achieve anything??? I've seen that kid play since he was v small. Besides schoolwork and other sports, all he can do during his high school years is win a sh!tload of matches, reach 2640 USATT ranking, becoming part of the US men's team before turning 18 & earning the right to represent US men in the WTTC (he beat Kanak & others during those national team trials).

While, your achievements in this sport probably dwarf his, Mr 'No wonder they don't achieve anything', trust me, he's done more than an average player here.

Originally posted by FruitLoop FruitLoop wrote:

And also wants to pay the CEO more than the already horrendously overinflated wage? Who cares what the cost of living is in the tristate area in most countries it's a voluntary position. Bring in Wall st guys ROFL what are they going to do? Someone has drunk the neo capitalist kool aid bigtime. 
I know two people who have been to worlds, they played a lot more than one match and also got to train for long periods with a large variety of top class opposition. It was a phenomenal experience.

IMHO, this reeks of a lack of knowledge of what the USATT needs most. $1.9MM revenues is minuscule and the corporate advertising budget allocated to sports in the US is massive. Our sport is so small, all it would take is a well-connected guy to get a couple of corporate benefactors. 

Originally posted by FruitLoop FruitLoop wrote:

Someone random from Wall St would bring negative value to the organisation, Jesus it's not an investment bank. Amazing how some people think the world works.
 

Again, this reeks of corporate ignorance. I mean their type and not just them. It is an example of 'you only eat what you can hunt' mentality required. It is precisely because USATT is revenue-starved & that is the crucible of most problems here. 

Besides, some of the best managed sports franchises currently in the US are currently owned / run by Wall St HF traders / venture capitalists. Take just the NBA for example: how were the Warriors, the Bucks and the Sixers doing before and eventually after they got taken over by their current owners? They are showing old organizations like the Lakers & the Knicks just how antiquated they are in their approach to sports science, analytics, etc. 

Lastly, IMHO, Gordy's done good things for USATT. I feel sad that I had to miss the women's world cup in Philly. :( Besides a new CEO, perhaps, they need better corporate governance. 


Edited by slevin - 04/13/2019 at 1:08am
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