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2021 World Youth Championships

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2021 at 7:42am
We have live Kanak's teammate and the Polish boy wonder, Sam Kulczycki vs Zeng Beixun, recently notorious for losing to Wang Manyu (after which I pointed out he was eligible for this event).  Can Sam deliver or is China still too good at this level?



Edited by NextLevel - 12/08/2021 at 7:43am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2021 at 8:37am
Finals will start in 2 hours and include not 1 but 2 Polish boy wonders:

EGY-JPN
POL-JPN
CHN-JPN
CHN-POL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2021 at 9:00am
Sam (as I have said multiple times on the Kanak/Bundesliga thread) is really special.  That said, so is Xiang, who was also beating good pros in tour events just like Sam does in the Bundesliga (Xiang's destruction of Kay Stumper in this event is on the internet).  Rooting for Sam, but Xiang is a strong favorite.  

Edited by NextLevel - 12/08/2021 at 9:02am
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2021 at 9:59am
Camera angle they are using for replays (corner angle opposite the server's corner) is excellent.  I wish they would use this as the default angle.

Good lineup of matches on this Finals day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2021 at 10:58am
Miwa has a nice backhand loop, but her forehand loop is failing her in game 3.  Hope she can pull it together.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2021 at 11:16am
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Miwa has a nice backhand loop, but her forehand loop is failing her in game 3.  Hope she can pull it together.

Miwa has started becoming an  annoying  player with her noisy attitude.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2021 at 11:25am
A respectable performance by Egypt's Hana Goda, but Miwa showed her professional pedigree.

I know y'all are thinking it.  Will we one day see a Harimoto/Harimoto Mixed Doubles? LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2021 at 11:27am
That game was weird. Miwa dropped 8 points in a row.

Goda has a decent short game, but Miwa pinned her down to the BH before sending shots down the wide FH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2021 at 12:26pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

That game was weird. Miwa dropped 8 points in a row.

Goda has a decent short game, but Miwa pinned her down to the BH before sending shots down the wide FH.

Miyu Kihara an improved  ito mima.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2021 at 12:29pm
Great use of the timeout from Miyuu.  Kaui Man was dictating the points with her forehand.  Miyuu comes back with a bit more pace on her forehand. She has one of the best backhand punches in the world along with Adriana Diaz.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2021 at 12:45pm
Miyuu is a fighter.  Smart to attack Kuai Man's comparatively weaker backhand.  She still has a long road ahead, but she knows what she has to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2021 at 1:09pm
The "bad" guys won the first match - can the "good" guys win the second match?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2021 at 1:10pm
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Miyu Kihara an improved  ito mima.

In terms of physique, yes. But in terms of skills, no. The way she uses the pips is too brute.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2021 at 1:13pm
Kuai Man is another Ding Ning type of player. Not a good trend for the CNT down the road. That's going against the flow.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2021 at 1:30pm
The boys' final feels like FZD-TM.

The only non-Asian junior world champion (singles, doubles, or team) was Patrick Baum in 2005.

Edit: Diaconu/Dragoman won girls' doubles in 2016.


Edited by amateur - 12/08/2021 at 1:32pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2021 at 1:38pm
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

The boys' final feels like FZD-TM.

The only non-Asian junior world champion (singles, doubles, or team) was Patrick Baum in 2005.

Edit: Diaconu/Dragoman won girls' doubles in 2016.

Sam put up a good fight but great things have been forecast for Xiang Peng.


Edited by NextLevel - 12/08/2021 at 1:38pm
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote troubadour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2021 at 1:44pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

The boys' final feels like FZD-TM.

The only non-Asian junior world champion (singles, doubles, or team) was Patrick Baum in 2005.

Edit: Diaconu/Dragoman won girls' doubles in 2016.

Sam put up a good fight but great things have been forecast for Xiang Peng.
This Xiang kid is ok but he still gives me an impression that his style is a bit crude, well we'll see how his career goes, No one knows when he will be allowed on the tour, Yes they might struggle a lot for 1 or 2 years but it'll only help them as they will be facing tougher competition, I don't know why the team leaders cannot see this.
Miyuu Kihara is so strong partly cah she's played on the professionals circuit for years now, Already so experienced. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2021 at 1:56pm
There's nothing wrong per se with being backhand dominant, but Sam is maybe too backhand dominant.  There were even a couple of somewhat loose serves from Xiang that I thought could be ripped to the opposite corner if Sam would pivot and forehand loop, but he chose his more comfortable backhand.  He has to develop that forehand loop power to keep his opponent honest even if his opponent at this stage has the better forehand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote troubadour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2021 at 2:06pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Kuai Man is another Ding Ning type of player. Not a good trend for the CNT down the road. That's going against the flow.
I get what you're saying, maybe she will toughen up stylistically when she's under the tutelage of the current national team coaches, At least it worked for Wang manyu. And they should be working with the main women coaches now, Especially with the gap left by the recent couple of retirements, I don't know why they are still working with the B team. 
Chen Yi is the one that's a bit of a concern, She was like the number 1 U15 in China back then, She had this Liu Shiwen/ Zhu Yuling style. But she suddenly had this growth spurt and now she's thinner, way taller and it's messed up her rhythm a lot, She misses a lot and she got trounced by the big sisters in the trials.
Wu Yangchen I don't know much about.

Also Kuai man has beaten Chen Meng 4-3 (although Meng was a bit injured in that match), She also took 2 games off Shasha, both matches this year, I think if she continues on a good trajectory She'll turn out okay. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2021 at 5:17pm
Originally posted by troubadour troubadour wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

The boys' final feels like FZD-TM.

The only non-Asian junior world champion (singles, doubles, or team) was Patrick Baum in 2005.

Edit: Diaconu/Dragoman won girls' doubles in 2016.

Sam put up a good fight but great things have been forecast for Xiang Peng.
This Xiang kid is ok but he still gives me an impression that his style is a bit crude, well we'll see how his career goes, No one knows when he will be allowed on the tour, Yes they might struggle a lot for 1 or 2 years but it'll only help them as they will be facing tougher competition, I don't know why the team leaders cannot see this.
Miyuu Kihara is so strong partly cah she's played on the professionals circuit for years now, Already so experienced. 

Xiang is defending Champ (beat Moregard in 2019) so definitely they are holding him back quite a bit for some reason.  He probably just hasn't performed internally in team competitions, but he did have decent performances as a junior that got some internal attention.  And I remember his NA Open performance and he beat quite a few good players on his way to the title.  So he does have international experience.  I suspect there is a detailed reason that he isn't on tour but he is clearly one of their top prospects.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote troubadour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2021 at 6:49pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by troubadour troubadour wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

The boys' final feels like FZD-TM.

The only non-Asian junior world champion (singles, doubles, or team) was Patrick Baum in 2005.

Edit: Diaconu/Dragoman won girls' doubles in 2016.

Sam put up a good fight but great things have been forecast for Xiang Peng.
This Xiang kid is ok but he still gives me an impression that his style is a bit crude, well we'll see how his career goes, No one knows when he will be allowed on the tour, Yes they might struggle a lot for 1 or 2 years but it'll only help them as they will be facing tougher competition, I don't know why the team leaders cannot see this.
Miyuu Kihara is so strong partly cah she's played on the professionals circuit for years now, Already so experienced. 

Xiang is defending Champ (beat Moregard in 2019) so definitely they are holding him back quite a bit for some reason.  He probably just hasn't performed internally in team competitions, but he did have decent performances as a junior that got some internal attention.  And I remember his NA Open performance and he beat quite a few good players on his way to the title.  So he does have international experience.  I suspect there is a detailed reason that he isn't on tour but he is clearly one of their top prospects.
yeah it must be due to performances in internal competitions, There are more powerful and faster players with little variations in style
, It's a big struggle for the kids to find their way up in a bang bang style environment except for the extraordinarily talented.
People like Xu Yingbin, Yu Heyi won couple WJTTCs too, they've still not seen a head way in their careers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2021 at 10:59pm
I get what you are trying to say and no one can know exactly how the future will turn out.  But comparing Xiang Peng to the guys you mentioned is pretty unfair.  He is more accomplished than they are both domestically and internationally at the same ages.  And he is just a better player and much closer to A-Team material even now than those guys were as youth.

Here is his match against FZD in the Superleague this year:


Here is his match vs the Dragon, watched by many TT luminaries:


He may not make Team A but the worst he will be is Yu Ziyang level.  I do expect him to make Team A at some point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kakapo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/09/2021 at 2:41am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Kuai Man is another Ding Ning type of player. Not a good trend for the CNT down the road. That's going against the flow.

I 'am not sure that Ding could not be again and again and again world champion if she was younger than 20 right now.
I also have in mind the late DN, the one that got beaten by Sato for instance but the previous DN was mentally in steel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YoAss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/09/2021 at 4:12am
Flow - or tide?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/09/2021 at 4:14am
Queens In the Hills.

1) Deng Yaping 150 half-tall assasine in the skirt.
2) Mima Ito 152 bloody wiildcat, next to the best.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Lightspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/09/2021 at 5:16am
Here is a video from 2017 about Xiang Peng in case anyone missed it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rX2p2MhOYc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/09/2021 at 7:08am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Kuai Man is another Ding Ning type of player. Not a good trend for the CNT down the road. That's going against the flow.

I've written multiple times on this. DN and LSW have admitted in previous interviews that their styles are outdated.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?19528-Li-Sun-It-s-Time-to-Shift-Our-Thinking-of-Ito&p=248812&viewfull=1#post248812
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?21464-How-is-the-women-s-game-different-from-men&p=283701&viewfull=1#post283701
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?23956-Return-of-International-TT-Matches&p=328638&viewfull=1#post328638

Below are LSW's recent comments on the new generation.

https://sports.sina.com.cn/others/pingpang/2021-09-25/doc-iktzscyx6257525.shtml
Quote   全运会乒乓球女单半决赛,刘诗雯0-4不敌孙颖莎,赛后采访时她表示自己整场比赛都与孙颖莎有差距,自己很长时间没有打这种高强度的比赛,比赛特点没有释放出来。“她们确实现在都非常强,从整个球的先进性和质量上都是非常高,我觉得未来的竞争在王曼昱、孙颖莎和陈梦之间会很激烈,希望她们可以展示出更好的乒乓球。”

Liu Shiwen lost to Sun Yingsha 0-4 in the semifinals of the National Games Table Tennis Women's Singles. In an interview after the game, she said that she had a gap with Sun Yingsha throughout the game. She hadn't played this kind of high-intensity competition for a long time, and her game characteristics were not unleashed. "They are indeed very strong now. Their game is very advanced and high quality. I think the future competition will be fierce among Wang Manyu, Sun Yingsha and Chen Meng. I hope they can show a better table tennis."

https://sports.sina.com.cn/others/pingpang/2021-11-15/doc-iktzqtyu7364508.shtml
Quote   世乒赛将于下周开赛,国乒上周进行了队内热身赛,刘诗雯虽然不参加世乒赛,但也打了这个比赛。昨天她4-0击败了小将陈熠。

  刘诗雯认为,比起比赛胜负,更希望能够通过比赛找回自己的竞技状态,“尤其是寻找到更适合自己现状的技术打法�£�格,现在不像以前追求�£么多的质量和板数,但是希望把球打得更精确。”

  所以,刘诗雯依然把这场和年轻选手的交锋看做一次学习的机会,“现在对手年龄都不大,进步很快,自己也希望无论是训练还是比赛,能逐渐跟上他们的步伐,并且能在这个过程中更新自己,找到属于自己的打法�£�格。”

The World Table Tennis Championships will start next week. The National Table Tennis Team held a warm-up tournament last week. Although Liu Shiwen will not participate in the World Table Tennis Championships, she also played this tournament. Yesterday, she defeated teenager Chen Yi 4-0.

Liu Shiwen believes that instead of winning or losing, she hopes to regain her competitive state through the tournament, "especially to find a technical play style that is more suitable for my current situation. Now I am not pursuing as much quality and stroke count as before, but hope to play the shots more accurately."

Therefore, Liu Shiwen still regards this confrontation with young players as an opportunity to learn. "Now, the opponents are very young and have made rapid progress. I also hope that whether it is training or competing, I can gradually keep up with their pace and in the process be able to update myself and find my own style of play."

Edited by zeio - 12/09/2021 at 9:34am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/09/2021 at 8:48am
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

A respectable performance by Egypt's Hana Goda, but Miwa showed her professional pedigree.

I know y'all are thinking it.  Will we one day see a Harimoto/Harimoto Mixed Doubles? LOL

Goda must be considered a huge prospect.  Coming out of Egypt, she plays very impressively.  Outside Asia, who is better at her age?

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kakapo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/09/2021 at 10:14am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Kuai Man is another Ding Ning type of player. Not a good trend for the CNT down the road. That's going against the flow.

I've written multiple times on this. DN and LSW have admitted in previous interviews that their styles are outdated.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?19528-Li-Sun-It-s-Time-to-Shift-Our-Thinking-of-Ito&p=248812&viewfull=1#post248812
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?21464-How-is-the-women-s-game-different-from-men&p=283701&viewfull=1#post283701
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?23956-Return-of-International-TT-Matches&p=328638&viewfull=1#post328638

Below are LSW's recent comments on the new generation.

https://sports.sina.com.cn/others/pingpang/2021-09-25/doc-iktzscyx6257525.shtml
Quote   全运会乒乓球女单半决赛,刘诗雯0-4不敌孙颖莎,赛后采访时她表示自己整场比赛都与孙颖莎有差距,自己很长时间没有打这种高强度的比赛,比赛特点没有释放出来。“她们确实现在都非常强,从整个球的先进性和质量上都是非常高,我觉得未来的竞争在王曼昱、孙颖莎和陈梦之间会很激烈,希望她们可以展示出更好的乒乓球。”

Liu Shiwen lost to Sun Yingsha 0-4 in the semifinals of the National Games Table Tennis Women's Singles. In an interview after the game, she said that she had a gap with Sun Yingsha throughout the game. She hadn't played this kind of high-intensity competition for a long time, and her game characteristics were not unleashed. "They are indeed very strong now. Their game is very advanced and high quality. I think the future competition will be fierce among Wang Manyu, Sun Yingsha and Chen Meng. I hope they can show a better table tennis."

https://sports.sina.com.cn/others/pingpang/2021-11-15/doc-iktzqtyu7364508.shtml
Quote   世乒赛将于下周开赛,国乒上周进行了队内热身赛,刘诗雯虽然不参加世乒赛,但也打了这个比赛。昨天她4-0击败了小将陈熠。

  刘诗雯认为,比起比赛胜负,更希望能够通过比赛找回自己的竞技状态,“尤其是寻找到更适合自己现状的技术打法�£�格,现在不像以前追求�£么多的质量和板数,但是希望把球打得更精确。”

  所以,刘诗雯依然把这场和年轻选手的交锋看做一次学习的机会,“现在对手年龄都不大,进步很快,自己也希望无论是训练还是比赛,能逐渐跟上他们的步伐,并且能在这个过程中更新自己,找到属于自己的打法�£�格。”

The World Table Tennis Championships will start next week. The National Table Tennis Team held a warm-up tournament last week. Although Liu Shiwen will not participate in the World Table Tennis Championships, she also played this tournament. Yesterday, she defeated teenager Chen Yi 4-0.

Liu Shiwen believes that instead of winning or losing, she hopes to regain her competitive state through the tournament, "especially to find a technical play style that is more suitable for my current situation. Now I am not pursuing as much quality and stroke count as before, but hope to play the shots more accurately."

Therefore, Liu Shiwen still regards this confrontation with young players as an opportunity to learn. "Now, the opponents are very young and have made rapid progress. I also hope that whether it is training or competing, I can gradually keep up with their pace and in the process be able to update myself and find my own style of play."

So, it means that Liu Shiwen or Ding Ning at her peak (23-25 Y/O) wouldn't have had any chances vs Sun Yingsha and Wang Manyu ( Vs Chen meng, both won multiple times) ? Well, every one has his own opinion about it.


Edited by kakapo - 12/09/2021 at 10:16am
Nittaku Goriki 94gr, dignics 09 max, super do knuckle, 1,4mm
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zeio View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/10/2021 at 11:18am
Many on Tieba don't think too highly of Kuai Man because of her old-fashioned style and lack of power, and relative closed age with WMY and SYS. OTOH, some want Miwa Harimoto to play WTTC 2022 yet many think she is still young. Will see how it turns out for them in the Paris 2024 cycle.

理讨,吧友天天看好的蒯曼,上限能达到谁的程度
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/7642347566
女队00后除了莎莎还有什么潜力股嘛
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/7634314615

张本美和啥时候能和中国队较量一下?
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/7643722421

Edited by zeio - 12/10/2021 at 11:22am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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