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2021 WTTC Houston USA Nov. 23-29

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/25/2021 at 10:31am
Originally posted by kindof99 kindof99 wrote:

I expected that XX and LSW will not play in the WTTC, but I thought ML would still play.

It seems that LGL has determined to let FZD lead the next generation after the Olympics.


its official that  MA long Wont play?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/25/2021 at 10:42am
ML, XX, and LSW each gave an announcement that they give up the chance to play voluntarily at about the same time.

Most chinese fans don't buy that though. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/25/2021 at 12:09pm
I wonder if Texas’ performance fighting COVID is a factor in their withdrawal. Texas is state #40 out of 50 in a « best response » classification, in between Tennessee and Kentucky; Louisiana, Mississippi and Arkansas are doing better…



Edited by stiltt - 10/25/2021 at 12:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/25/2021 at 12:36pm
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

I wonder if Texas’ performance fighting COVID is a factor in their withdrawal. Texas is state #40 out of 50 in a « best response » classification, in between Tennessee and Kentucky; Louisiana, Mississippi and Arkansas are doing better…


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/25/2021 at 12:53pm
I can't imagine the decision was based on Texas politics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/25/2021 at 1:40pm
So strange that Ma Long isn't playing.  He is playing really well as of late.  I would think he would at least make the finals if not win.  Xu Xin is probably exhausted but I would still put him at #3 on the CNT. 

Look for the CNT women to sweep everything.  On the men's side FZD will probably win but things will be more competitive without Ma Long and XX. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/25/2021 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by Lightspin Lightspin wrote:

So strange that Ma Long isn't playing.  He is playing really well as of late.  I would think he would at least make the finals if not win.  Xu Xin is probably exhausted but I would still put him at #3 on the CNT. 

Look for the CNT women to sweep everything.  On the men's side FZD will probably win but things will be more competitive without Ma Long and XX. 
I find it almost normal. 

Breaking the current GOAT record is hard, very hard. It was hard for ZJK to equalize Waldner's record (1GS + 1 WTTC). Then ML broke that with (1 GS + 2 WTTC  edit...and 1 OG). 

It is good for the CNT to always break records so if Ma Long becomes WC another time, it will take more time to break his new record.

As soon as a record is broken, a CNT imaginary rule says that the player retires from GS events to maximize the possibilities that the record will be broken again. Just a proposition.


Edited by stiltt - 10/26/2021 at 9:32pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote troubadour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/25/2021 at 2:54pm
The way I see it is that it's not just about FZD, but about the men's team weakness, And the transition to a New generation. The men's team without XX and ML are very far from the Strength of ML, XX and FZD and stranglehold on the Major trophies, LGY very unpredictable and unreliable, LJK only has a World tour title to his name or so, And a bit unreliable too, ZQH doesn't have no name for himself on the international stage, WCQ is still very rash.
Obviously Fans want to see the best play, but you have to consider the pressure on the coaches, the team's competitiveness and national glory is what matters most to them, not what the fans think. If they keep using ML and XX for the majors and WCQ and Co get their chances When they are almost 30 or early 30s and flounder due to not being able to shoulder the pressure, mental weakness or inexperience, everyone here will be theorizing the grace to grass of the CNT and y'all know whose jobs will be at risk.
The female team has obviously transitioned well urgently in the last year and Let's be honest even a trio of WMY, CXT, WYD are probably equals or even slight favorites against Mima, Miu and Hina. Can't say the same for LGY, LJK, WCQ against say Dima, Boll, Franziska or even Sangsu, Woojin, Yeongsik



Edited by troubadour - 10/25/2021 at 2:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote denym Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/25/2021 at 2:59pm
Originally posted by reflecx reflecx wrote:

Men's singles: Fan Zhendong, Liang Jingkun, Wang Chuqin, Lin Gaoyuan, Zhou Qihao
Men's Doubles: Fan Zhendong/Wang Chuqin, Lin Gaoyuan/Liang Jingkun
Women's singles: Chen Meng, Sun Yingsha, Wang Manyu, Chen Xingtong, Wang Yidi
Women's Doubles: Sun Yingsha/Wang Manyu, Chen Meng/Qian Tianyi
Mixed Doubles: Wang Chuqin/Sun Yingsha, Lin Gaoyuan/Wang Manyu​​​​

Ma Long and Xu Xin pulled out

So I don't still follow how this final player list works. ITTF gave a list of qualified 128 players for singles for example. So if someone pulls out, it would be only fair to include 129th, 130th and so on (or 65th & 66th etc in doubles) players down the list.  If a player who is 129th is not say Chinese or German but from another (small TT wise) country, then ITTF is essentially screwing that country. Especially when eveyone whines about how China totally dominates (& such as when ITTF tries to artificially manipulate the rating and ranking lists  to include non Chinese players or to make more Europeans to be at the top of the list LOL) 

Edit :- Ok I partially screwed up. While  Zhou Qihao is at #122, he may qualify but there were others from China that were ranked higher than  Zhou Qihao.  Keep in mind this is not a team championship but an individual championship and I am not sure if national associations have a right to deny players an opportunity to play if they are qualified based on current ranking 

But based on what reflecx says above (I am not sure if reflecx is right or wrong, he may be wrong), it looks like China (& probably Germany etc)  was allowed to simply substitute more players, instead of choosing the next best qualified players in the ITTF ranking list.

It sounds very fishy when 3 time champion Ma Long won't be allowed (or chose not to) defend his title.  Nobody talks about the reasons and seems like it is a secret. Very similar to Kanak Jha when he chose not to defend his title but chose to play in another 888 event when back in USA at about the same time.

I am by no means saying that these players or countries  are the only ones that this happens and I am sure it  happens in many other countries.  There was a big dispute with Manika Batra not being allowed to play for India at 2021 Asian Championships.


Whatever




 
 


 

     


Edited by denym - 10/25/2021 at 3:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/25/2021 at 3:45pm
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

Originally posted by Lightspin Lightspin wrote:

So strange that Ma Long isn't playing.  He is playing really well as of late.  I would think he would at least make the finals if not win.  Xu Xin is probably exhausted but I would still put him at #3 on the CNT. 

Look for the CNT women to sweep everything.  On the men's side FZD will probably win but things will be more competitive without Ma Long and XX. 
I find it almost normal. 

Breaking the current GOAT record is hard, very hard. It was hard for ZJK to equalize Waldner's record (1GS + 1 WTTC). Then ML broke that with (1 GS + 2 WTTC). 

It is good for the CNT to always break records so if Ma Long becomes WC another time, it will take more time to break his new record.

As soon as a record is broken, a CNT imaginary rule says that the player retires from GS events to maximize the possibilities that the record will be broken again. Just a proposition.

I think CNT see more for the next circle from now on. Only FZD is relatively reliable in the next circle (generation). All other young players do need more international chances to get mature. If CNT gives ML more chances to play, I think he will breaking records. But that is china national team, they  do not really care about individual's fame.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/25/2021 at 3:47pm
Now, the top three players of CNT are FZD, LJK, and WCQ as suggested by the list order.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote denym Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/25/2021 at 3:48pm
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

Breaking the current GOAT record is hard, very hard. It was hard for ZJK to equalize Waldner's record (1GS + 1 WTTC). Then ML broke that with (1 GS + 2 WTTC). 


You have the right to Google & correct your statistics  Ouch 



I know Wikipedia screws up sometimes but these 2 lists seem reasonably accurate.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reflecx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/25/2021 at 10:49pm
Originally posted by denym denym wrote:

Edit :- Ok I partially screwed up. While  Zhou Qihao is at #122, he may qualify but there were others from China that were ranked higher than  Zhou Qihao.  Keep in mind this is not a team championship but an individual championship and I am not sure if national associations have a right to deny players an opportunity to play if they are qualified based on current ranking 

But based on what reflecx says above (I am not sure if reflecx is right or wrong, he may be wrong), it looks like China (& probably Germany etc)  was allowed to simply substitute more players, instead of choosing the next best qualified players in the ITTF ranking list.

It sounds very fishy when 3 time champion Ma Long won't be allowed (or chose not to) defend his title.  Nobody talks about the reasons and seems like it is a secret. Very similar to Kanak Jha when he chose not to defend his title but chose to play in another 888 event when back in USA at about the same time.

I am by no means saying that these players or countries  are the only ones that this happens and I am sure it  happens in many other countries.  There was a big dispute with Manika Batra not being allowed to play for India at 2021 Asian Championships.


LOL, this is China you're talking about. Anyway, Zhou Qihao won one of the WTTC selection trials earlier this year, that's why he's going despite his low ranking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/26/2021 at 1:09am
They realised that they need to get the younger gen to step up so they gave the opportunity to the youngsters....it's the same thinking - team before the individual. 

That said, this is the best opportunity for Fan Zhendong and he better not screw it up this time. He should really have beaten Ma Long in the Olympics....


Edited by blahness - 10/26/2021 at 1:10am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/26/2021 at 10:34am
ML was probably forced to not play in the WTTC. There is a big chance that he is going to beat FZD again if he plays. LGL wanted to see a generation transition at the Olympics that FZD beat ML. But ML has been very strong for the past year.

Zhou QiHao has never made it to the 1/16 in the international stages. Hopefully it will be different this time.

Letting the best players play is never a motto of CNT. Many chinese fans are disappointed as well that this still happens. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote troubadour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/26/2021 at 3:28pm
Yeah let the Best Players play, Until the Best Players win, win and retire and then there's no one Who has been exposed enough and can replace them well and same fans Will put pressure on the team and probably call for overhauling the coaching team, People can never be satisfied lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/26/2021 at 9:41pm
If I resume the thread into a plausible story, ML won everything he wanted, best of all time title included. Yes he could get another wttc and would become alone up there for a very long time but after all his dreams realized thanks to the support of the team, he now pays back the team by leaving the spots to those who need exposure to the highest level. There is more value there than taking the risk of a loss when a victory would even not teach us anything we did not know already: he is the best, the cream of the cream, the 1% of the 1%. 

The hypothesis is more than plausible to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/26/2021 at 10:12pm
It's not up to Ma Long. We are thinking like westerners, and individuals (I am guilty of this often). The coaches select, it's what they think is best for China, and the individual, no matter how great, doesn't get a vote. The system is alien to the western mentality.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/27/2021 at 9:07am
Any word on the mask requirements in the venue?

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote denym Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/27/2021 at 9:53am
I saw this hilarious hype writeup at WTT


As far as I am concerned, WITTC is a complete and utter failure without Ma Long (& Xu Xin).

Are you kidding ?  They won't even give Ma Long a chance to make history ?  No player won 4 in a row in sponge era (Viktor Barna won 4 in a row in hardbat era......though they did have WTTC every year then not every 2 years)

USATT should bring this up with the state department & make this an international "incident" (to at least "expose" table-tennis to the USA's basement ping-pong public....rather than writing phony articles like above) & should probably refuse to send USA team to China for 2022 WTTTC if Ma Long does not show up to defend his title in Houston (Remember Moscow 1980 (Afghanistan) & LA 1984 ? Tit-for-tat Olympics boycotts)  ........ Ha Ha  I am just blowing smoke LOL

Also, reminds me of Chicago Bulls management choosing to disband their 1998 team rather than give them a chance to defend their title in 1999 (But then again who knows, maybe Bulls players & coach wanted GM Jerry Krause gone if they were going to stay ........it cuts both ways) .







Edited by denym - 10/27/2021 at 10:31am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote denym Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/27/2021 at 9:58am
Originally posted by jfolsen jfolsen wrote:

It's not up to Ma Long. We are thinking like westerners, and individuals (I am guilty of this often). The coaches select, it's what they think is best for China, and the individual, no matter how great, doesn't get a vote. The system is alien to the western mentality.

Which other eastern country would have done the same ?

BTW,  WITTC is  an individual event not a team event.

If Ma Long had known in Tokyo , he could have taken an eastbound plane & defected to USA .... I guess he still would have gotten to play since this is an individual championships.

Maybe his defection would have made table-tennis more popular in USA than baseball, basketball & American football ........one can only fantasize.   ShockedCry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/27/2021 at 12:48pm
sorry dupe post

Edited by BRS - 10/27/2021 at 12:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/27/2021 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Any word on the mask requirements in the venue?

Thanks.

Aren't local mask requirements against state law?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ez1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/27/2021 at 12:55pm
Why would ML defect to USA?  Coaching kids at the club?
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Anyone knows the difference between WTT 'Daily Hall B3 Access' and 'All Access' ? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/27/2021 at 2:27pm
Exactly.  For WTTC, the countries are allowed to select any players they choose to play in the spots they are allotted by the rules.  China could send a totally unranked team if it wanted to, though the low seeding would mean playing in earlier rounds and tougher draws for many of them.  The US has 4 spots in men, maybe more because we are hosting.

Originally posted by reflecx reflecx wrote:

Originally posted by denym denym wrote:

Edit :- Ok I partially screwed up. While  Zhou Qihao is at #122, he may qualify but there were others from China that were ranked higher than  Zhou Qihao.  Keep in mind this is not a team championship but an individual championship and I am not sure if national associations have a right to deny players an opportunity to play if they are qualified based on current ranking 

But based on what reflecx says above (I am not sure if reflecx is right or wrong, he may be wrong), it looks like China (& probably Germany etc)  was allowed to simply substitute more players, instead of choosing the next best qualified players in the ITTF ranking list.

It sounds very fishy when 3 time champion Ma Long won't be allowed (or chose not to) defend his title.  Nobody talks about the reasons and seems like it is a secret. Very similar to Kanak Jha when he chose not to defend his title but chose to play in another 888 event when back in USA at about the same time.

I am by no means saying that these players or countries  are the only ones that this happens and I am sure it  happens in many other countries.  There was a big dispute with Manika Batra not being allowed to play for India at 2021 Asian Championships.


LOL, this is China you're talking about. Anyway, Zhou Qihao won one of the WTTC selection trials earlier this year, that's why he's going despite his low ranking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/27/2021 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Any word on the mask requirements in the venue?

Thanks.

Aren't local mask requirements against state law?


The Governor signed an executive order banning local mask mandates for city and county buildings and then more recently signed an order banning vaccine mandates even for private business.  The legislature was called into special session but didn't pass a law banning the vaccine mandates.  So it seems to be a bit of a gray area in terms of legality. (It's not clear that the Governor can act unilaterally on something like that for more than a temporary measure).  At least, that is my  understanding (which could be wrong, I'm not a lawyer). 

I just checked the website for a huge international petroleum conference that will be held in the same venue in December.  It says this:  "The CDC recommends masks be worn inside at public locations and masks will be provided free of charge. The decision to wear a mask or not will be at each attendee’s discretion."   That particular conference, however, is not allowing anybody in who is not fully vaccinated OR who has not had a negative PCR test within the last 72 hours.  In other words, they will be consistent with the orders on city county and state orders on masks (they are not required) but they are going to make sure people comply in other ways. 

My impression is that if the ITTF wants a rule like that for attendees they are allowed to insist on it.  But a mask will not be required.

Travelers from abroad are going to have a hard time entering the country without a lot of Covid documentation.


Edited by Baal - 10/27/2021 at 4:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/28/2021 at 12:10am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Any word on the mask requirements in the venue?

Thanks.

Aren't local mask requirements against state law?


The Governor signed an executive order banning local mask mandates for city and county buildings and then more recently signed an order banning vaccine mandates even for private business.  The legislature was called into special session but didn't pass a law banning the vaccine mandates.  So it seems to be a bit of a gray area in terms of legality. (It's not clear that the Governor can act unilaterally on something like that for more than a temporary measure).  At least, that is my  understanding (which could be wrong, I'm not a lawyer). 

I just checked the website for a huge international petroleum conference that will be held in the same venue in December.  It says this:  "The CDC recommends masks be worn inside at public locations and masks will be provided free of charge. The decision to wear a mask or not will be at each attendee’s discretion."   That particular conference, however, is not allowing anybody in who is not fully vaccinated OR who has not had a negative PCR test within the last 72 hours.  In other words, they will be consistent with the orders on city county and state orders on masks (they are not required) but they are going to make sure people comply in other ways. 

My impression is that if the ITTF wants a rule like that for attendees they are allowed to insist on it.  But a mask will not be required.

Travelers from abroad are going to have a hard time entering the country without a lot of Covid documentation.

Thank you!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reflecx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/28/2021 at 1:37am
Originally posted by denym denym wrote:


If Ma Long had known in Tokyo , he could have taken an eastbound plane & defected to USA .... I guess he still would have gotten to play since this is an individual championships.



Are you new to table tennis? ITTF has rules wrt switching associations. As an adult, Ma Long would have to wait 9 years after switching associations to play WTTC for his new association.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/28/2021 at 2:40am
Could've defected to USA, you mean that third world country?

"Emma: It begins in California..." No wonder the US will become "minority white" with all that shit happening.

https://youtu.be/aNghg1Y-WIc?t=652
https://youtu.be/kHzLtjR_hdY?t=58
https://youtu.be/iajyvVaeFS4?t=3
https://youtu.be/29X_Kmd6Ewg?t=462
https://youtu.be/wHpt4gB0-Mw?t=124
https://youtu.be/ZMAP9Ccg2-0
https://youtu.be/oBlpoCJAc3s?t=63

Edited by zeio - 10/28/2021 at 4:33am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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