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2022 T.LEAGUE Individual Tournament, 8/13-14

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    Posted: 03/07/2022 at 9:24am
As those in the loop are aware, in lieu of selecting the 2 singles players merely by world ranking as how it had been done for the previous Olympics, for Paris 2024, the JTTA has opted for a new selection system in which participating players will collect points in singles event of WTTC, ATTC, Asian Games, All-Japan Championships, T.League and a series of qualifiers between 2022 and 2024, with the period starting the day after Zennihon Takkyu 2022 ends and ending on the day Zennihon Takkyu 2024 ends. The 2 players with the most points will participate in the singles event of Paris 2024.

List of all selection criteria
https://jtta.or.jp/national/selection
Selection criteria for Paris 2024
https://jtta.s3.ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/06105808/2024olympic_selection_road3-criteria_0606-2.pdf
https://jtta.s3.ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/13180714/20210911-selection-Criteria.pdf
Point table
https://jtta.s3.ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/06110045/2024olympic_selection_road3_point_0606.pdf
https://jtta.s3.ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/13184032/20210911-selection-Criteria-point-single.pdf
2022
Selection criteria for WTTC 2022
https://jtta.s3.ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/20113004/2022-wttc-qualification-JTTA_20211218.pdf
Selection criteria for Paris 2024 Qualifier #1(aka 2022 LION CUP TOP32)
https://jtta.s3.ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/20114912/d21b748f6124b4cdfcf5fdb2341c96ab-1.pdf
Selection criteria for Asian Games 2022
https://jtta.s3.ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/06150957/238ab0f40f386ae9db9e2afb7e5706f6.pdf
Selection criteria for Paris 2024 Qualifier #2
https://jtta.s3.ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/28190719/2024olympic_selection_road2-3-0428.pdf
https://jtta.s3.ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/07170652/2024olympic_selection_road2.pdf
2023
Selection criteria for WTTC 2023
https://jtta.s3.ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/06111237/2023wttc_selection_criteria_0606.pdf
Player standings
https://jtta.s3.ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/22110623/714227c7c35397ca9c24894803bf39ba.pdf

There are 6 rounds of qualifiers in total, 3 in 2022 and 3 in 2023:
2022/3/5-6, Paris 2024 Qualifier #1 cum WTTC 2022 Qualifier(aka 2022 LION CUP TOP32), 4 team spots for WTTC 2022 and 1 singles spot for Asian Games 2022.
2022/7/16-17(formerly), 9/3-4(formerly), 4/9-10, Paris 2024 Qualifier #2 cum Asian Games 2022 Qualifier, 1 singles spot and 4 team spots for Asian Games 2022.
2022/7/16-17(formerly), 9/3-4, Paris 2024 Qualifier #2
2022/11/12-13(formerly), 11/16-17(formerly), 11/12-13(tentatively), Paris 2024 Qualifier #3

Tally after Paris 2024 Qualifier #1 cum WTTC 2022 Qualifier:
#1 張本智和/HARIMOTO Tomokazu = 50 pts
#2 及川瑞基/OIKAWA Mizuki = 45
#3 横谷 晟/YOKOTANI Jo = 40
#4 丹羽孝希/NIWA Koki = 35
#5 有延大夢/ARINOBU Taimu = 30
#6 篠塚大登/SHINOZUKA Hiroto = 25
#7 曽根 翔/SONE Kakeru = 20
#8 上田 仁/UEDA Jin = 15
#9-16 = 10
戸上隼輔/TOGAMI Shunsuke
松島輝空/MATSUSHIMA Sora
英田理志/AIDA Satoshi
宇田幸矢/UDA Yukiya
田中佑汰/TANAKA Yuta
谷�£佑真/TANIGAKI Yuma
鈴木 颯/SUZUKI Hayate
吉村真晴/YOSHIMURA Maharu
#17-32 = 5
龍崎東寅/RYUSUKE Tonin
�£�薗政崇/MORIZONO Masataka
吉村和弘/YOSHIMURA Kazuhiro
濵田一輝/HAMADA Kazuki
吉山僚一/YOSHIYAMA Ryoichi
三木 隼/MIKI Jun
村松雄斗/MURAMATSU Yuto
松下大星/MATSUSHITA Taisei
高橋 航太郎/TAKAHASHI Kotaro
木造勇人/KIZUKURI Yuto
川上流星/KAWAKAMI Ryusei
高見真己/TAKAMI Masaki
神 巧也/JIN Takuya
吉山和希/YOSHIYAMA Kazuki
吉田海斗/YOSHIDA Kaito
坂井雄�£�/SAKAI Yuuhi

#1 早田ひな/HAYATA Hina = 50 pts
#2 長﨑美柚/NAGASAKI Miyu = 45
#3 木原美悠/KIHARA Miyuu = 40
#4 佐藤 瞳/SATO Hitomi = 35
#5 伊藤美誠/ITO Mima = 30
#6 石川佳純/ISHIKAWA Kasumi = 25
#7 橋本 帆乃香/HASHIMOTO Honoka = 20
#8 平野美宇/HIRANO Miu = 15
#9-16 = 10
張本美和/HARIMOTO Miwa
�£� さくら/MORI Sakura
南波 侑里香/NAMBA Yurika
加藤美優/KATO Miyu
野村 萌/NOMURA Moe
大藤沙月/ODO Satsuki
中田玲奈/NAKATA Rena
芝田沙�£/SHIBATA Saki
#17-32 = 5
篠原夢空/SHINOHARA Yura
安藤 みなみ/ANDO Minami
横井咲桜/YOKOI Sakura
菅澤 柚花里/SUGASAWA Yukari
木村香純/KIMURA Kasumi
黒野葵�£/KURONO Aoi
青木咲智/AOKI Sachi
小塩遥菜/OJIO Haruna
岡田琴菜/OKADA Kotona
由本楓羽/YUMOTO Fuwa
香取 悠珠子/KATORI Yumiko
枝�£ 愛/EDAHIRO Ai
木村光歩/KIMURA Mitsuho
面手 凛/MENDE Rin
平 真由香/TAIRA Mayuka
鈴木李茄/SUZUKI Rika

With the above, below are the selected 5 men and 5 women for WTTC 2022:
Togami, All-Japan 2022 singles champion
Harimoto, 2022 LION CUP TOP32 champion
Oikawa, 2022 LION CUP TOP32 finalist
Yokotani, 2022 LION CUP TOP32 semi-finalist
Niwa, 2022 LION CUP TOP32 semi-finalist

Ito, Tokyo 2020 singles bronze medalist/All-Japan 2022 singles champion
Hayata, 2022 LION CUP TOP32 champion
Nagasaki, 2022 LION CUP TOP32 finalist
Kihara, 2022 LION CUP TOP32 semi-finalist
Sato, 2022 LION CUP TOP32 semi-finalist

As the winners, Harimoto and Hayata are also slated for the singles and team events of Asian Games 2022. Ishikawa will be absent for the first time after 14 straight appearances since her debut at WTTC 2007. Hirano was last absent at the WTTC 2016, after her debut at WTTC 2015.

-----------------------
Former thread titles:
JTTA Asian Games 2022 Qualifier, 4/9-10
2022 LION CUP TOP32, 3/5-6 - Road to Paris 2024

Edited by zeio - 06/07/2022 at 9:10am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/07/2022 at 9:32am
WTTC 2018 feels so long ago. Ito won the WTTC 2018 trial. Hayata, finalist of the trial, and Nagasaki, for defeating WJTTC 2016 champion Shi Xunyao at WJTTC 2017 and Elizabeta Samara at Qatar Open 2018, were selected by recommendation. Ishikawa by highest world-ranked JNT player in Dec, 2017 and defeating 6 top 30 world-ranked non-JNT players in 2017. Hirano by defeating top 3 world-ranked CNT players and 6 top 30 world-ranked non-JNT players in 2017.

https://www.butterfly.co.jp/takurepo/topics/detail/008733.html




Edited by zeio - 03/07/2022 at 9:51am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/07/2022 at 11:15am
Ito's interview after losing to Nagasaki disagrees with my assessment of her performance at Zennihon Takkyu 2022.
https://rallys.online/topic/domestic/220305lioncupitomima/
https://hochi.news/articles/20220305-OHT1T51234.html?page=1
https://www.daily.co.jp/general/2022/03/05/0015111943.shtml

Not long ago, Ito admitted she had been playing poorly after losing to SYS at Tokyo 2020 in the TV Tokyo documentary "伊藤美誠・金メダルの向こうへ" that covered her journey from Tokyo 2020 to WTTC 2021.

Also, she isn't afraid of speaking her mind on incorporating the T.League into selection system.
https://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2022/03/06/kiji/20220306s00026000290000c.html

Edited by zeio - 03/07/2022 at 11:16am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/07/2022 at 12:26pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Ito's interview after losing to Nagasaki disagrees with my assessment of her performance at Zennihon Takkyu 2022.
https://rallys.online/topic/domestic/220305lioncupitomima/
https://hochi.news/articles/20220305-OHT1T51234.html?page=1
https://www.daily.co.jp/general/2022/03/05/0015111943.shtml

Not long ago, Ito admitted she had been playing poorly after losing to SYS at Tokyo 2020 in the TV Tokyo documentary "伊藤美誠・金メダルの向こうへ" that covered her journey from Tokyo 2020 to WTTC 2021.

Also, she isn't afraid of speaking her mind on incorporating the T.League into selection system.
https://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2022/03/06/kiji/20220306s00026000290000c.html

Very beneficial updates!

Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/07/2022 at 2:00pm
https://www.daily.co.jp/general/2022/03/05/0015112498.shtml
Quote  長崎はパワフルな打球が持ち味のサウスポー。18年世界�£体は推薦で�£表に選ばれたが、試合での出番はなか�£た。

 2学年上の伊藤、平野、早田ひな(日本生命)の最強トリオは高い牙城となるが、パリ五輪に出場するには倒さないといけないライバル。長崎は「2000年生まれの3人は小学生時�£から強くて、何でこんなに(自分と)差があるんだろうと思�£たりもしていた。今までは『すごいな、すごいな』と思�£ていたが、自分もやればできると念頭に置いて、(3人は)強いんですけど、先輩たちのようにカッコいい選手になりたい」と闘志を燃やした。

Nagasaki is a southpaw with a powerful shot. In WTTC 2018, she was selected by recommendation, but remained benched throughout the tournament.

The strongest trio of Ito, Hirano, and Hina Hayata (Nippon Life), who are two years older, is a high-ranking stronghold, but it is a rival that must be defeated in order to participate in the Paris Olympics. "The three people born in 2000 have been strong since they were in elementary school, and I was wondering why the gap was so wide between them (and me). Until now, I always thought, "amazing, amazing", while keeping in mind that I can also do it myself, that even though (the three of them) are strong, I want to become a cool player like my seniors," said Nagasaki.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3IY-SqywRU
The emotions displayed in the short clip above echos my predictions for Nagasaki and Kihara.

2018
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?19700-2018-World-Junior-U18-TT-Championships&p=251733&viewfull=1#post251733
Quote At this rate, Nagazaki will drop off the radar. She's only less than 2 years younger than Ito and the likes. If CNT's experience applies as well for JNT, she will live under their shadows and fade away. Kihara has it a little better given those 2 extra years, but it will still be difficult for her.


2019
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?21440-Australian-Open-2019-Platinum&p=281377&viewfull=1#post281377
Quote I still feel the same for Nagasaki. Comparing to Ito and Hirano at the same age, she's already behind.


2020
This one from 5ch, not mine.
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?22664-2020-World-Team-Table-Tennis-Championships&p=317363&viewfull=1#post317363
Quote If that happens, Hirano will have it the worst. Unlike Ishikawa and Ito who have already participated in the Olympics,
if Hirano can't participate in the Olympics this time, she may end up without playing the Olympics for a lifetime.
4 years later, in addition to Ito the Great Demon King, the Olympics in Paris will also see Nagasaki and Kihara rising.
It's possible that Hayata will be even stronger, so it wouldn't be strange for Hirano to drop out.


https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?22664-2020-World-Team-Table-Tennis-Championships&p=317366&viewfull=1#post317366
Quote It will be fun to see how my own predictions for Nagasaki and Kihara from 2018 will turn out. Will see how COVID-19 and WTT shuffle the pecking order.


https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?22664-2020-World-Team-Table-Tennis-Championships&p=319088&viewfull=1#post319088
Quote Yes, for the most part, judging from what happened in 2019 and early 2020. They'll have a much harder time than Hirano, Ito and Hayata when they displaced Ishikawa in 2017, 2018, and 2020. Miwa Harimoto will turn 16 in 2024. This is essentially the Warring States period.


To borrow Wu Jingping's analogy for FZD from 2014, the blockers ahead and pursuers behind Nagasaki and Kihara are some of the strongest not just in recent decades but also in JNT's history, as Hirano implied in an interview after Tokyo 2020.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?23698-Tokyo-2020-2020-7-24-8-9&p=353765&viewfull=1#post353765
Quote ——Besides you, Ishikawa, Ito, Hayata et al., there are many strong players now. What do you think of such a table tennis world where various players arise?

"Our generation is very strong, and whether from the same era or other generations, many strong players have also emerged, which is really great for the table tennis world, but on the other hand, if I still can’t win there, it’s meaningless, so I want to become the best player among them."


Compared to the Tokyo 2020 cycle, this Paris 2024 cycle highlights even more just how weak and fortunate Ishikawa's era was. Some may find my constant bashing annoying, but the Olympic results justified my assessment of Ishikawa after Rio 2016. Shouldn't have played Tokyo 2020. A third wheel. Any team composition of Ito/Hirano/Hayata/Nagasaki/Kihara would have guaranteed the same results in singles and team at a minimum.

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=77500&PID=958124&title=2016-ittf-world-tour-swedish-open#958124
Quote Now that Ito and Hirano are fast maturing, her role in the team feels awkward.

Quote It's not about age. It's about who has more potential. The current Ishikawa is just like the then Mizutani in 2012, always claiming to beat China only to lose miserably to players from other countries...Ishikawa may be able to beat Ito and Hirano, but she doesn't stand a chance against China. Not that Ito and Hirano are any better, but they have shown the potential.


Harimoto before the WS final match:
Hayata, meet Nagasaki. My ex (XD partner).
Nagasaki, meet Hayata. My current (XD partner).
Uda: Stares...

https://hochi.news/articles/20180701-OHT1T50137.html


https://sirabee.com/2017/10/09/20161304724/


https://world-tt.com/ps_info/ps_report_detail.php?bn=000001&pg=HEAD&page=BACK&rpcdno=1515


Edited by zeio - 03/07/2022 at 2:29pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/07/2022 at 2:44pm
Ito vs Miwa Harimoto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rbnDWuBFf8&t=2341s

This point, along with many others in this tournament, shows the potential of women's table tennis since Hirano first demonstrated it in 2017.

Edited by zeio - 03/07/2022 at 2:45pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/07/2022 at 3:34pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Ito vs Miwa Harimoto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rbnDWuBFf8&t=2341s

This point, along with many others in this tournament, shows the potential of women's table tennis since Hirano first demonstrated it in 2017.

As demonstrated in that video, one of Mima's issues, which her opponents are exploiting more often, is her short legs/arms.  I remember watching Mima vs. Suthasani Sawetabutt at the 2021 WTTC and noticing over and over again that Suthasani was exploiting this by hitting the corners.  And again this was an issue with her match with Nagasaki.  She noted in her post Nagasaki match interview that she felt like she couldn't move thus unable to score points.

As for Miwa, all I can say is wow!  Despite the 0-4 score, each game was as close as can be with Miwa being up 10-6 in the 1st (need to work on her mental game).  Her development has been better than her brother's as it doesn't look like she's skipping anything.  Perhaps part of that is that girls develop at an earlier age.  But already, she beat Minami Ando who has a pretty decent record in T-League.  There's something about the Harimotos around that age 13/14 where they just explode in level so it'll be fun to keep an eye on her development this year.

HH has been the most stable of all of the Japanese women so I expect she'll be in Paris.  I'll also be watching if Miyu Nagasaki will fulfill her potential.  Very powerful player from both wings like HH.  Looks like her transition to being a Red Elf with HH has really helped her game :).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/07/2022 at 10:30pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Ito vs Miwa Harimoto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rbnDWuBFf8&t=2341s

This point, along with many others in this tournament, shows the potential of women's table tennis since Hirano first demonstrated it in 2017.

Glad you posted that point, zeio. I watched the match last night and it was a good one. Very close games with Miwa just not being able to convert. And that one point was amazing haha.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/07/2022 at 10:42pm
I follow this, but not as closely as some of you. Do you think Mima Ito has peaked as a singles player? I watched her matches at the Houston Worlds and I didn't see any forward progress, I got the impression people were catching up to her game and tactics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackwong23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2022 at 12:49am
Japan's last Olympics selection process was obviously flawed, therefore they did not pick the best players.  They simply picked the highest ranked players to play in the last Olympics. That was insane. You pick your best players according to ability, not according to the Ittf ranking.
As I said millions of times before,  Hayata should have been picked in the last Olympics and WTTC.  She has been arguably the second best player in Japan for the last 3 years. Japan missed a trick by not picking her in the last Olympics and world championship. 
Kasumi and Hirano will not pose any serious threat to the Chinese and picking them would just be a waste of 2 precious spots.
My picks for the 2024 Olympics:  Ito, Hayata, Nagasaki



Edited by jackwong23 - 03/08/2022 at 6:00am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2022 at 6:39am
My picks for the 2024 Olympics:  Ito, Hayata, Nagasaki

In Sports' terms, the two years before the next Olympics is a long period of time.  In this regard, all with a brain observe Harimoto charging upward rapidly.

The Japanese women have the "China problem" of having a group of outstanding players all worthy of opportunity.  With the trends clear for the sport into the future, the most susceptible to miss the Olympics with Harimoto in the mix is Ito.

We know that Isikawa will not go down without a fight.  Hirano hasn't been interesting for some time now. 

It will be fascinating to watch this.

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2022 at 6:43am
Oh, by the way, Tomokazu Harimoto starts college next month, in April.  I stand by my prediction he will be a very fine accountant some day.

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2022 at 9:38am
Originally posted by jfolsen jfolsen wrote:

I follow this, but not as closely as some of you. Do you think Mima Ito has peaked as a singles player? I watched her matches at the Houston Worlds and I didn't see any forward progress, I got the impression people were catching up to her game and tactics.
Possibly... at a minimum she has hit a plateau.  The Chinese have video analyzed her to death.  And her compatriots are aware of her weaknesses.  Shibata took her to 7 games before losing though to be fair Mima Ito beat her 4-0 straight at the All Japan.  And now she's been beaten by Nagasaki's wonderful play.  

It's pretty amazing she's even gotten where she has despite her physical size limitations and limitations of short pips.  I remember back in 2019 when she was going through a slump losing to CXT at both the Bulgarian and Czech Open.  The next tournament was in Paraguay and she elected to skip it.  Lots of netizens were criticizing for that since she was in a points race towards the Tokyo Olympics, but I fully understood it.  She needed to right the ship.  She was proven right by beating SYS and WMY at the Swedish Open before losing to CM.    

I've noticed she's limiting her serves by serving exclusively from the middle now.  I'm assuming she and her coach analyzed this to be most effective.  But I've always felt her service game was one of her best attributes, and I wonder if limiting the serve variations is the right decision.  Plus, I wanna see that scorpion serve again :).  Knowing that her opponents are keying on her physical limitations, she has to do a better job of anticipating this and be ready to move.  And before the bh-bh rallies get too spinny especially with the Chinese, she'll have to hit to the opposite corner or pivot to fh despite the risk.  Anyhow, I hope she can right the ship again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2022 at 9:47am
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

My picks for the 2024 Olympics:  Ito, Hayata, Nagasaki

In Sports' terms, the two years before the next Olympics is a long period of time.  In this regard, all with a brain observe Harimoto charging upward rapidly.

The Japanese women have the "China problem" of having a group of outstanding players all worthy of opportunity.  With the trends clear for the sport into the future, the most susceptible to miss the Olympics with Harimoto in the mix is Ito.

We know that Isikawa will not go down without a fight.  Hirano hasn't been interesting for some time now. 

It will be fascinating to watch this.

Thanks.
Although I agree Ishikawa won't go down without a fight, I just don't see her being top 3 any longer.  She can get overpowered by HH, and as we saw at the All Japan, Miyu Kato did the same to her.  

Hirano does have mental problems, but I wouldn't count her out just yet.  She played exceptionally well at the 2021 WTTC taking CM to 7 games.  

I agree this will all be fascinating to watch as this tournament just goes to show how fiercely competitive the race to Paris 2024 will be as none of the current Tokyo Olympians made it to the semis.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackwong23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2022 at 9:59am
Hi Donn, agree that 2 years is a long time in sport. But why persist with players who have failed time and time again against the Chinese ?  There is a famous saying:  "  Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” Kasumi & Hirano have tried many times but failed to beat the Chinese.  They would more than likely disappoint again in 2024. Judging by potential, recent form and results, Hayata and Nagasaki are better players anyway. A change of personnel is necessary in my opinion. Ito is Ito, she is still regarded as the best player in Japan.

Edited by jackwong23 - 03/08/2022 at 10:10am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2022 at 10:34am
I think the most exciting player to watch right now is Miyu Nagasaki.  I know it's just one tournament, but there's a lot to like.  Let's not forget that she beat Zhu Yuling *twice* when she was just 17.  I was afraid that her getting beaten badly by Hina Hayata at both the WTTC and ATTC trials would affect her psyche.  But if anything she's gotten stronger mentally.  In her match against Mima, she was down 1-2 in games and down 5-9 in the 4th game.  It would be easy to give in to the pressure playing against the All Japan champion, but she was calm and focused.  I know people might say she broke down against HH, but that's fine.  HH is just the most solid Japanese player right now.  She came back from 0-3 against JJH to win the Star Contender in Doha.  She came back from 1-3 against Miyu Kato at the All Japan.  There's no shame in basically playing even in a best of 7 against someone whose dominated you.  I just enjoy watching players maximize their potential so I just hope this continues for Miyu Nagasaki.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2022 at 11:26am
Hayata vs Shibata
https://youtu.be/PJMcDrfEoOQ?t=276
A half long serve to force a weak opening loop from Hayata and then pivot to counterloop that return. The FH stroke, footwork and grit involved in this setplay practically made it exclusive to the men not that long ago. Now you see more and more women pull that off. The next several points and the subsequent games also saw them both trying to finish with the FH whenever possible, another trait that was uncommon in the women's game several years ago.

https://youtu.be/PJMcDrfEoOQ?t=851
Hayata's trademark asian squat FH, no easy feat even for asians.

Harimoto, and I mean Miwa's older brother and Hayata's current (XD partner), could take a page from the book of "masculinization of the women's style". I still think Hayata could outrun him now.

https://youtu.be/PJMcDrfEoOQ?t=1149
https://youtu.be/PJMcDrfEoOQ?t=1216
https://youtu.be/PJMcDrfEoOQ?t=1281
The camera angle also makes Hayata's BH issue obvious, as explained by Li Sun that starting the BH swing low is not necessary with the ABS ball.

https://youtu.be/PJMcDrfEoOQ?t=1327
Another notable pointer of "masculinization" is the hit-right-back/turn-the-tables shot when clearly out of position after losing the initiative as Hayata demonstrates in this point. It was more or less exclusive to the men's game but the frequency of occurence has increased since the change to ABS ball that you start seeing it in the women's game regularly. Hayata has consistently done it like here and here. Ito has pulled it off time from time that anticipation can make up for height and reach. Here is one by Feng Yalan in 2010.

Hayata vs Kihara
https://youtu.be/R3LCx_TIMXI?t=1197/https://youtu.be/hTJUcOp_NB0?t=184
https://youtu.be/R3LCx_TIMXI?t=2500/https://youtu.be/hTJUcOp_NB0?t=240
Hayata: I can do it all day long.

Ito vs Nagasaki
https://youtu.be/id3H7TlDYRA?t=726
Nagasaki: I can do it as well.

Edited by zeio - 03/08/2022 at 11:34am
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+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2022 at 11:30am
Originally posted by jackwong23 jackwong23 wrote:

Japan's last Olympics selection process was obviously flawed, therefore they did not pick the best players.  They simply picked the highest ranked players to play in the last Olympics. That was insane. You pick your best players according to ability, not according to the Ittf ranking.
As I said millions of times before,  Hayata should have been picked in the last Olympics and WTTC.  She has been arguably the second best player in Japan for the last 3 years. Japan missed a trick by not picking her in the last Olympics and world championship. 
Kasumi and Hirano will not pose any serious threat to the Chinese and picking them would just be a waste of 2 precious spots.
My picks for the 2024 Olympics:  Ito, Hayata, Nagasaki


Did we watch the same WTTC where Hayata was in Houston?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2022 at 11:40am
jackwong23's worldview:
WTTC Suzhou: happened.
WTTC Dusseldorf: happened.
WTTC Budapest: happened.
WTTC Houston: did not happen.

Edited by zeio - 03/08/2022 at 11:41am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2022 at 11:49am
It might sound crazy to contemplate right now, but Ito might not make 2024.  Between Hayata, Nagasaki, Harimoto, and Kihara, there is enough competition.  Ito's biggest advantage is that it is only 2 years away.  But a lot can happen in 2 years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackwong23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2022 at 11:52am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by jackwong23 jackwong23 wrote:

Japan's last Olympics selection process was obviously flawed, therefore they did not pick the best players.  They simply picked the highest ranked players to play in the last Olympics. That was insane. You pick your best players according to ability, not according to the Ittf ranking.
As I said millions of times before,  Hayata should have been picked in the last Olympics and WTTC.  She has been arguably the second best player in Japan for the last 3 years. Japan missed a trick by not picking her in the last Olympics and world championship. 
Kasumi and Hirano will not pose any serious threat to the Chinese and picking them would just be a waste of 2 precious spots.
My picks for the 2024 Olympics:  Ito, Hayata, Nagasaki


Did we watch the same WTTC where Hayata was in Houston?

No, I am talking about the 2019 WTTC singles and doubles tourney in Budapest where Hayata should have been selected. The Japanese players selected at that tourney were Kasumi Ishikawa, Mima Ito, Miu Hirano, Hitomi Sato and Miyu Kato.



Edited by jackwong23 - 03/08/2022 at 11:59am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackwong23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2022 at 11:56am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

jackwong23's worldview:
WTTC Suzhou: happened.
WTTC Dusseldorf: happened.
WTTC Budapest: happened.
WTTC Houston: did not happen.

The last WTTC singles tourney in Budapest where Hayata should have been selected, instead Japan picked Hitomi Sato and Miyu Kato. 





Edited by jackwong23 - 03/08/2022 at 12:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2022 at 12:06pm
Originally posted by jackwong23 jackwong23 wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by jackwong23 jackwong23 wrote:

Japan's last Olympics selection process was obviously flawed, therefore they did not pick the best players.  They simply picked the highest ranked players to play in the last Olympics. That was insane. You pick your best players according to ability, not according to the Ittf ranking.
As I said millions of times before,  Hayata should have been picked in the last Olympics and WTTC.  She has been arguably the second best player in Japan for the last 3 years. Japan missed a trick by not picking her in the last Olympics and world championship. 
Kasumi and Hirano will not pose any serious threat to the Chinese and picking them would just be a waste of 2 precious spots.
My picks for the 2024 Olympics:  Ito, Hayata, Nagasaki


Did we watch the same WTTC where Hayata was in Houston?

No, I am talking about the 2019 WTTC singles and doubles tourney in Budapest where Hayata should have been selected. The Japanese players selected at that tourney were Kasumi Ishikawa, Mima Ito, Miu Hirano, Hitomi Sato and Miyu Kato.


It isn't the last WTTC, it was the 2019 WTTC.  And for this admittedly flawed process, let's remember that Hayata lost a direct matchup with Kato for the spot that could have changed her fate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2022 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by jackwong23 jackwong23 wrote:

Hi Donn, agree that 2 years is a long time in sport. But why persist with players who have failed time and time again against the Chinese ?  There is a famous saying:  "  Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” Kasumi & Hirano have tried many times but failed to beat the Chinese.  They would more than likely disappoint again in 2024. Judging by potential, recent form and results, Hayata and Nagasaki are better players anyway. A change of personnel is necessary in my opinion. Ito is Ito, she is still regarded as the best player in Japan.

Hi,

You are to be applauded for quoting Einstein; a good strategy!

Consistently, the Japanese are very meritocratic in that they feature actual results in selected competitions to determine the national team members.  There will be a formal trial to decide who will be on the team.  Other countries are more discretionary than Japan.  This Japanese philosophy has harmed them in the past because it is invoked at early ages in judging which young players should be provided the best opportunities.  Many styles featuring deception produced positive competition outcomes that would not be realized at higher skill levels, yet because these juniors were competition successful, they displaced the better-structured players.  These deception-based players failed when they participated in the higher ranks.

Yes, for sure Ito is Ito.  Never would I doubt her future success in Japan.  The limitation with Hirano is the same as seen with Kasumi; there isn't a distinctive playing quality that promotes the highest level play.

I must say in general I'm in awe of the Japanese table tennis culture.  They are thinking big in challenging the Chinese; they have abundant resources for support; started their national professional league to develop their players; they have patience; and have a great history to inspire them.  Their contribution to the sport is immense.

Thanks.

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackwong23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2022 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by jackwong23 jackwong23 wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by jackwong23 jackwong23 wrote:

Japan's last Olympics selection process was obviously flawed, therefore they did not pick the best players.  They simply picked the highest ranked players to play in the last Olympics. That was insane. You pick your best players according to ability, not according to the Ittf ranking.
As I said millions of times before,  Hayata should have been picked in the last Olympics and WTTC.  She has been arguably the second best player in Japan for the last 3 years. Japan missed a trick by not picking her in the last Olympics and world championship. 
Kasumi and Hirano will not pose any serious threat to the Chinese and picking them would just be a waste of 2 precious spots.
My picks for the 2024 Olympics:  Ito, Hayata, Nagasaki


Did we watch the same WTTC where Hayata was in Houston?

No, I am talking about the 2019 WTTC singles and doubles tourney in Budapest where Hayata should have been selected. The Japanese players selected at that tourney were Kasumi Ishikawa, Mima Ito, Miu Hirano, Hitomi Sato and Miyu Kato.


It isn't the last WTTC, it was the 2019 WTTC.  And for this admittedly flawed process, let's remember that Hayata lost a direct matchup with Kato for the spot that could have changed her fate.

I should have said the last world table tennis singles championship.  Hayata had a better record than Kato at the time, especially against the Chinese. It was Definitely a bad selection. 


Edited by jackwong23 - 03/08/2022 at 12:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2022 at 12:19pm
Originally posted by jackwong23 jackwong23 wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by jackwong23 jackwong23 wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by jackwong23 jackwong23 wrote:

Japan's last Olympics selection process was obviously flawed, therefore they did not pick the best players.  They simply picked the highest ranked players to play in the last Olympics. That was insane. You pick your best players according to ability, not according to the Ittf ranking.
As I said millions of times before,  Hayata should have been picked in the last Olympics and WTTC.  She has been arguably the second best player in Japan for the last 3 years. Japan missed a trick by not picking her in the last Olympics and world championship. 
Kasumi and Hirano will not pose any serious threat to the Chinese and picking them would just be a waste of 2 precious spots.
My picks for the 2024 Olympics:  Ito, Hayata, Nagasaki


Did we watch the same WTTC where Hayata was in Houston?

No, I am talking about the 2019 WTTC singles and doubles tourney in Budapest where Hayata should have been selected. The Japanese players selected at that tourney were Kasumi Ishikawa, Mima Ito, Miu Hirano, Hitomi Sato and Miyu Kato.


It isn't the last WTTC, it was the 2019 WTTC.  And for this admittedly flawed process, let's remember that Hayata lost a direct matchup with Kato for the spot that could have changed her fate.

I should have said the last WTTC singles championship.  Hayata had a better record than Kato at the time, especially against the Chinese. Definitely a bad selection. 

So 2021 WTTC wasn't the last WTTC singles championship... I give up...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackwong23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2022 at 12:52pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

It might sound crazy to contemplate right now, but Ito might not make 2024.  Between Hayata, Nagasaki, Harimoto, and Kihara, there is enough competition.  Ito's biggest advantage is that it is only 2 years away.  But a lot can happen in 2 years.

2024 may be too soon for Harimito. 
I would say the 2026 WTTC.



Edited by jackwong23 - 03/08/2022 at 12:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liXiao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2022 at 7:17pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

It might sound crazy to contemplate right now, but Ito might not make 2024.  Between Hayata, Nagasaki, Harimoto, and Kihara, there is enough competition.  Ito's biggest advantage is that it is only 2 years away.  But a lot can happen in 2 years.


There's also Haruna Ojio, Satsuki Odo, Sakura Yokoi... There is a ton of competition coming.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote troubadour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2022 at 9:06pm
All for the competition
Let's have it!!! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/08/2022 at 10:53pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

It might sound crazy to contemplate right now, but Ito might not make 2024.  Between Hayata, Nagasaki, Harimoto, and Kihara, there is enough competition.  Ito's biggest advantage is that it is only 2 years away.  But a lot can happen in 2 years.

Sounds crazy.  
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