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$49 fee for USATT membership

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    Posted: 11/14/2013 at 2:54pm
We held a tournament recently and I tried to sign up some newbies as well as players that haven't played in a tournament in a few years. One of the main problems though for them was having to pay that $49 for the USATT membership. I guess you can do a 1-time playing permit if you've never played in a tournament, but for the players that had played in a tournament even if it had been a few years, they don't get to purchase that permit...they have to pay the full $49 for the adult membership. As a result the 2 players I tried to sign up didn't do it.
I wish the USATT would have some other options for those people that are new or only play in 1 tournament a year. Maybe you could pay $15 fee per tournament if your membership is expired. That way if you only play 1 or 2 tournaments a year it might be a little more appealing.
Any thoughts on any other options the USATT could offer?
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote assiduous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2013 at 3:01pm
We need competition. Screw USATT. We need 3 more leagues with their ratings and their own tournaments. Without competition you always get the same result - poor product at a high price. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2013 at 3:01pm
Just out of curiosity, did having the tournament sanctioned increase participation or in some way improve the event?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2013 at 3:02pm
The USATT should offer a monthly Tournament pass.  

Happy that I bought my Lifetime Pass before they increase it to $200 from $150.


Edited by jt99sf - 11/14/2013 at 3:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Toprank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2013 at 3:22pm
I really think that $49 per year is too much. I think USATT has to think of the bigger picture. Make a membership cost $25. This has a ripple effect more. More people will join (a positive). More people will participate in tournament and pay tournament fees (a positive). More people will possibly join clubs (a positive) More people buy into the sports is a positive. I think the amount of memberships would increase and tournament participation would increase, thus the sport grows. I know at least 5-10 players who asked me about playing tournaments and as soon as I mention the $49 membership fee, they instantly shut down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2013 at 3:26pm
Originally posted by Toprank Toprank wrote:

I really think that $49 per year is too much. I think USATT has to think of the bigger picture. Make a membership cost $25. This has a ripple effect more. More people will join (a positive). More people will participate in tournament and pay tournament fees (a positive). More people will possibly join clubs (a positive) More people buy into the sports is a positive. I think the amount of memberships would increase and tournament participation would increase, thus the sport grows. I know at least 5-10 players who asked me about playing tournaments and as soon as I mention the $49 membership fee, they instantly shut down.

The USATT don't care about the membership.  Just look at the Nationals in Vegas, zero media coverage. Even some of the vendors stop coming. You pay $50 per event and get a lousy t-shirt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berkeleydoctor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2013 at 3:33pm
Originally posted by jt99sf jt99sf wrote:

The USATT should offer a monthly Tournament pass.  

Happy that I bought my Lifetime Pass before they increase it to $200 from $150.

the lifetime membership is $1000 now ConfusedConfusedConfused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2013 at 3:59pm
USATT can't develop the sport without money.  I get that.  I just don't feel like we as players and members are getting much return for our money. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2013 at 4:01pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

USATT can't develop the sport without money.  I get that.  I just don't feel like we as players and members are getting much return for our money. 

+1.  Don't the USATT get money from the Olympic Committee ?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushdeep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2013 at 4:01pm
$49 includes 12 issues of the USATT magazine and a sticker. I think it's not bad. I think they should work out a deal with clubs and retailers (doesn't have to be TT retailers) for discounts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2013 at 4:03pm
Originally posted by Pushdeep Pushdeep wrote:

$49 includes 12 issues of the USATT magazine and a sticker. I think it's not bad. I think they should work out a deal with clubs and retailers (doesn't have to be TT retailers) for discounts.

don't forget the hotel and airline discounts. Shocked
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2013 at 4:06pm
So, say I visit USA, and play in a sanctioned tournament. I will need to pay $49?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Toprank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2013 at 4:12pm
Originally posted by ZApenholder ZApenholder wrote:

So, say I visit USA, and play in a sanctioned tournament. I will need to pay $49?
 
Yes, just to be allowed to enter. Then you will pay the event fee, then a ratings fee, and an administration fee. Then you get to play some competitive Pong!  Wacko


Edited by Toprank - 11/14/2013 at 4:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote assiduous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2013 at 5:01pm
We have many players in the club that never play tournaments because of the initial fee. It's kind of a shame
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2013 at 5:05pm
Originally posted by ZApenholder ZApenholder wrote:

So, say I visit USA, and play in a sanctioned tournament. I will need to pay $49?
No, if you only visit once you can pay the one-time fee of $10 to play in tourney.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2013 at 5:06pm
Rating Fee is $7.  (used to be $3).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2013 at 5:07pm
Originally posted by assiduous assiduous wrote:

We have many players in the club that never play tournaments because of the initial fee. It's kind of a shame

That's why my club runs three free tournaments a year (singles, doubles, teams) for our members. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2013 at 5:07pm
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

Rating Fee is $7.  (used to be $3).

Yes,  it costs more now to press the 'Enter' key.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2013 at 5:25pm
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

Rating Fee is $7.  (used to be $3).


Actually, there no longer is a "Rating Fee."  It is now a "Tournament Processing Fee."  The change was made to recognize that the fee is being collected to do more than finance the ratings calculations. 

The change was made in lieu of increasing membership fees.  Nonetheless, membership fees were also increased a short time later.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2013 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by ZApenholder ZApenholder wrote:

So, say I visit USA, and play in a sanctioned tournament. I will need to pay $49?


If you are a current member of your country's ITTF Affiliated National TT Association, you do not have to be a member or purchase a one-time pass.  You only need to pay the event fees and the $7 USATT tournament processing fee.  If attending the U.S. Open or perhaps one of the very large tournaments, the tournament processing fee might be as high as $10.




Edited by wturber - 11/14/2013 at 5:34pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berkeleydoctor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2013 at 6:20pm
Originally posted by jt99sf jt99sf wrote:

Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

Rating Fee is $7.  (used to be $3).

Yes,  it costs more now to press the 'Enter' key.

what club are you at?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2013 at 6:23pm
Originally posted by berkeleydoctor berkeleydoctor wrote:

the lifetime membership is $1000 now


Do they still offer that if you ask? They don't list it anymore on the site.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2013 at 6:30pm
Originally posted by berkeleydoctor berkeleydoctor wrote:

what club are you at?

SF Lawton TT Club.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hookumsnivy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2013 at 7:25pm
Honestly, the fees are ridiculous.
You get a sticker, a rating and the magazine.  Then you pay a Tournament Processing Fee every time you play.
The magazine more than pays for itself with all the advertisements.  By giving it away for free, they are actually making more money from the advertisements.  More subscribers means more eyes which makes the ads that much more valuable.
The sticker - advertising for them as well.  Not a bad thing, but not exactly worth much.
Then there's the rating that you pay for up front and then over and over again every time you enter a tournament.
There are other rating systems out there, so there's really nothing special about this one.

Outside of the top players (maybe they get more benefits, I don't know), these are the only benefits I can think of:
1.  A common place to list all the clubs
2.  A pretty pathetic site to access player ratings.
3.  Insurance for the clubs that register

Of course, for a club to appear on the site and get insurance they have to pay a fee.  You'll find that there are a lot of clubs that don't register.

Outside of the club insurance and the magazine, what does the USATT do that a simple site can not?  Doesn't ratings central provide all that right now?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2013 at 8:24pm
Originally posted by hookumsnivy hookumsnivy wrote:

Honestly, the fees are ridiculous.


It's the cost of having a sport that doesn't attract sponsors.  Take away the fees and the organization probably just goes away. 

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but last time I looked Membership fees accounted for something like 33% of the USATT's income and is the largest chunk that doesn't have a nearly same size offsetting expense. 

I agree that the benefits of membership are not proportionate to the cost.  Essentially, you are donating money to support TT in the U.S.  Given that people seem to happily spend well more than $49 to cover one side of their racket with rubber, I, personally, don't find giving that kind of support particularly bothersome. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2013 at 8:35pm
When I arrived in the States for the 1st time I was surprised about the sales tax not included in the listed prices in stores; I understand that businesses act as tax collectors for states were sales tax apply; my question is why as a buyer should I care about that relationship between the business and the state? If I am going to pay an item $11 then just write down $11 on the sticker and give the state his dollar tax; I do not need to see a $10 price tag and calculate in my head if I can afford it given the fact the 10% tax has not applied yet. OH yes; the businesses want me to know $11 is not what they charge...what they really charge is $10...give me a break!

As a player I would like the tournament processing fee to be buried into the events fees so I do not see it; same for the membership fees.

I like the system at the nationals: high price for the 1st event and a lower decreasing price for the following ones. It does encourage to enter the maximum number of events.

Let's assume a typical event costs $15 average to enter:

I can imagine a system for usatt tournaments where people would have to pay $30 for the 1st event, $20 for the 2nd and $15 for all others (just an example). Anything the tournament director gives to USATT is none of my business. I do not want to know. 

Of course we would know that the $7 tournament processing fee would be contained in the 1st and 2nd more expensive events and so would the yearly membership fees; people playing 4 tournaments a year entering 2 events or more at each of them (very common) would in fact pay about the same ([15x4] + [5x4]= $80 which is about the same than today's 49+ [7x4]=77) but would not feel screwed and as a result would try to enter as many events as possible to bring the average down.

That simple idea has the merit to borrow from what USATT is already doing (it's their idea Wink) and at the same time we are all used to it when we go to the nationals so it would be easy a change to swallow. 

I would also want a sort of ladder to differentiate usatt members in function of how many tournaments they have entered in their "usatt life" (newbie = 1 to 3; rising star 4 to 10; established 11+).

I believe such a new system would suck in for good MANY people who are today too shy to make their 2nd step after using their one time $10 pass.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Toprank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2013 at 8:54pm
Originally posted by wturber wturber wrote:

Originally posted by hookumsnivy hookumsnivy wrote:

Honestly, the fees are ridiculous.

 Essentially, you are donating money to support TT in the U.S.  Given that people seem to happily spend well more than $49 to cover one side of their racket with rubber, I, personally, don't find giving that kind of support particularly bothersome. 
 
I agree, I don't have a problem with paying $49 either.  We are committed to the sport and would easily pay double if it meant helping out the sport nationally. However, you and I are the minority.
 
I think its important to grow the sport and if want to reel in the fringe player that is on the fence of doing a tournament or two...or on the fence of joining the usatt, that is better done with a lower membership fee. More usatt members mean more tournament participants, more people spreading the word how great table tennis is, more people joining clubs and overall more people playing everywhere. Now what we have with the $49 is very committed serious players and less people joining the usatt. I don't see how that is good.
 
I definitely don't want them to lower the fee so I can save $25 a year. I just would like it to be more affordable to the new player. Maybe just lower the membership for new members 1st 3 years or something. For example first time member offer of 3 year membership for $75. Than you're getting a 3 year commitment out of someone new to the sport. That is a great idea...USATT should give me a job.


Edited by Toprank - 11/14/2013 at 8:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hookumsnivy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2013 at 9:01pm
Originally posted by wturber wturber wrote:

Originally posted by hookumsnivy hookumsnivy wrote:

Honestly, the fees are ridiculous.


It's the cost of having a sport that doesn't attract sponsors.  Take away the fees and the organization probably just goes away. 

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but last time I looked Membership fees accounted for something like 33% of the USATT's income and is the largest chunk that doesn't have a nearly same size offsetting expense. 

I agree that the benefits of membership are not proportionate to the cost.  Essentially, you are donating money to support TT in the U.S.  Given that people seem to happily spend well more than $49 to cover one side of their racket with rubber, I, personally, don't find giving that kind of support particularly bothersome. 


I don't think $49/year is a lot of money, because it's really not.  It comes down to value.  I don't think you get your money's worth.
What is the USATT really doing to promote table tennis?  In the last few years, I think SPIN has done more to promote the sport than the USATT.  
If you're not in an area with a high concentration of TT players and clubs, you can't enter many tournaments, so you're getting even less for your money.
For example, in the last 12 months, there have been 3 (maybe 4) USATT sanctioned tournaments within a 4 hour drive of me.  Unfortunately I've only made it to 1 of those due to more urgent matters.  Am I really getting my money's worth?  Definitely not.  Even if I managed to make it to all 4, the answer is still no.
Do we really need the USATT?  It seems all we need is a website that uses ratings central, and has information about clubs and upcoming tournaments.  Why do we need officially sanctioned tournaments?

One more thing about the tournaments.  The USATT requires you to provide notice months in advance if you want to hold a 3* or higher tournament.  Why?  If your club was willing and able to hold a 4* tournament, why do you have to wait 4 (I'm probably wrong on the number) months to hold it?  That's just ridiculous.


Edited by hookumsnivy - 11/14/2013 at 9:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote puppy412 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2013 at 9:04pm
Originally posted by jt99sf jt99sf wrote:

Originally posted by berkeleydoctor berkeleydoctor wrote:

what club are you at?

SF Lawton TT Club.




I find it peculiar that tt clubs in US seem to have so many oriental players among their members.
it seems as though tt did not really get to the local crowd and people playing are mainly those who came from east and probably knew and liked tt before.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hookumsnivy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/14/2013 at 9:08pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

When I arrived in the States for the 1st time I was surprised about the sales tax not included in the listed prices in stores; I understand that businesses act as tax collectors for states were sales tax apply; my question is why as a buyer should I care about that relationship between the business and the state? If I am going to pay an item $11 then just write down $11 on the sticker and give the state his dollar tax; I do not need to see a $10 price tag and calculate in my head if I can afford it given the fact the 10% tax has not applied yet. OH yes; the businesses want me to know $11 is not what they charge...what they really charge is $10...give me a break!

I've lived in the US my entire life and I hate that too.  I can do the math pretty quickly in my head, but I shouldn't need to.  I find it refreshing when places include tax in the price, but it's very rare.
Same thing goes for prices that end in .99 or even worse the gas stations that have 9 10ths of a cent in the price.  Sadly market research was done and it was found that not rounding up led to more purchases.  
I'll stop before I go into an even longer rant on stuff unrelated to the topic at hand.

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