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about Jan-Ove Waldner!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gaute Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/17/2005 at 5:08am
Can you imagine wlq. playing table tennis in the age of 40?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gaute Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/17/2005 at 5:57am

Waldner won the world championsship (i cant remember the year) with 21 won games, and 0 lost games. Wang Liquin can never do that!
Waldner won 2 games in the 2004 olympic games gainst Wang Liquin. And Waldner was much bether in the 90s, I think that Jan Ove Waldner from the 90s had won against todays Wang Liquin!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote indy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/17/2005 at 3:39pm
For shore he would won Gaute
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT_Freak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/17/2005 at 8:23pm
Not applicable for Chinese players, since Waldner himself would have been kicked out of the national team years ago. Yes I can imagine Wang Liqin playing at the age of 40, more blocks and less explosive power. Longevity can only be used if both parties have an equal standing to compare upon, since there are no Swedish juniors that can compare with the Chinese ones Waldner could play as long as he liked. Quite frankly the level of play exhibited by the top players today is above that of the 80s (Waldner's heyday), in physique, technical and tactical ability.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fraziel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/17/2005 at 9:18pm
tt freak,

i am curious, the fact that there are no swedish juniors has what relevance? so what. waldner won the 97 world championships without dropping an end. he won EVERY game 3 nil. that will NEVER be done gain. oh, and by the way, a lot of people think that the game these days is easier than the 80's as the game is slower with less spin. wlq in the future will be looked upon as an irrelevence compared to waldner. as gaute said waldner was playing in swedish top division at age 12. at that time the swedes were top notch. and again, as gaute said he was the tt maradonna. if you dont know who maradonna is i suggest you look it up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/17/2005 at 9:42pm
Michael Jordan is to basketball, Waldner is to table tennis...
Sure Wang Liquin is fast and powerful and won many titles but I haven't seen somebody as talented and innovative as well as entertaining as Waldi and for me that makes him stand out from the rest and makes him the best table tennis player the TT world have produced
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fortunateluck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/18/2005 at 3:01am

With all due respect for Waldner being great player and all, ... he has pretty wimpy gestures after winning a point etc. ... haha..  almost as bad as Samsonov..

sorry, all you Waldner fans..

But, really .. I think everybody is just talking about their own opinions.. For some reason, Men's TT is not as clear cut as Women's, where one champion clearly dominates.. It's Zhang Yining now and was Wang Nan.. Deng Yaping.. Now if you had to compare between them...

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT_Freak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/18/2005 at 7:00am
The fact that there are no more Swedish juniors that can match up to him is relevant because that means that he has no competition for a place in the Swedish National Team. Where as in China the competition for the limited spaces is very fierce.

From an objective point of view Waldner is technically shaky (stems from poor instruction and playing other racquet sports when young such as tennis), mentally above average but prone to losing his temper and giving up against a consistant opponent. His strengths are his strategies, unorthodox playing style and excellent anticipation (which make up for rather bad footwork).

In fact Samsonov eclipses Waldner in pretty much all aspects of the game (from own analysis and the opinion of many Chinese coaches) and is almost unbeatable by other Europeans (very few good Europeans base their games on speed, which both are weak against).

As for the fact that Waldner did not lose a set in the 97 Worlds, lets just say that the only truly challenging opponent he faced was in the finals (and that he was at that time technically better than).

He can be said as a prime candidate for the GOAT position, but there are also many other people who could fill the position.

PS: The game now is faster and spinnier that it has ever been because of the increase in equipment speed and the advent of rubber made exclusively for lots of speedglueing (Hurricane series).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fraziel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/18/2005 at 7:53am
tt freak,
so you are saying that waldner won an olympic gold, an olympic silver (as recently as 2000), 2 world champ singles golds and 2 silvers, 4 world team champ golds, a european singles gold and 2 silvers,european team golds, got to an olympic semi at 38 plus god knows how many top 12 european wins, and this was all done with dodgy technique, a dodgy temperament, iffy footwork and easy draws? i think you need to give credit where credit is due. but if waldner is not greatest then who is? dont say kong as his achievements were done at the time tt was, as you put it, easier and slower. dont say wlq either as he has not achieved enough over a long enough time yet. i respect your opinion but i think you are being more than a little hard on waldner!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpong1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/18/2005 at 8:58am
I still can't believe waldner won an olympic(or world camp?) without dropping a single game! I mean other guys must seems like kids to him at that time. Nobody can do that now. Even as high level as Zhang yining, she has to drop some games!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT_Freak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/19/2005 at 3:11am
Yeah, he won the 97 worlds without losing a game. Mainly because the only truly hard opponent he faced was in the finals. It could happen in the next worlds, but it would require a very strong player to have an exceptionally good draw (no opponents close to level until final, in other words many major upsets in the early rounds and facing no opponents who's style that player is weak against). Don't worry too much, I'm just as hard on everyone else; including myself.

Waldner has many weakness (that most are out of his hand, its not his fault the coaches in Sweden aren't up to the same quality as those in China), he mostly depends on his raw talent to cover those weaknesses. Its also to his advantage that he plays a style that can be maintained with old age. Its both a blessing and a curse that he is Swedish, because it is because of bad grassroots level coaching that he still has chances to play and its because of that that he has so many technical weaknesses.

Some people may wonder why I'm writing pieces like these, its to bring him back down to earth from all the "Waldner is God" comments. Honestly, it gets as bad as the anti-stem cell research arguments.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edsf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/18/2006 at 12:40am

Originally posted by TT_Freak TT_Freak wrote:

Yeah, he won the 97 worlds without losing a game. Mainly because the only truly hard opponent he faced was in the finals. It could happen in the next worlds, but it would require a very strong player to have an exceptionally good draw (no opponents close to level until final, in other words many major upsets in the early rounds and facing no opponents who's style that player is weak against). Don't worry too much, I'm just as hard on everyone else; including myself.

Waldner has many weakness (that most are out of his hand, its not his fault the coaches in Sweden aren't up to the same quality as those in China), he mostly depends on his raw talent to cover those weaknesses. Its also to his advantage that he plays a style that can be maintained with old age. Its both a blessing and a curse that he is Swedish, because it is because of bad grassroots level coaching that he still has chances to play and its because of that that he has so many technical weaknesses.

Some people may wonder why I'm writing pieces like these, its to bring him back down to earth from all the "Waldner is God" comments. Honestly, it gets as bad as the anti-stem cell research arguments.

haha that was great, I love it! So all thanks to the DREADFUL coaches in sweden, Waldner is considered by a vast majourity to be the greatest player ever by FAR. Fantastic!
I will just assume that you did not spend some 1000 hours in sweden during the 70-80s practising together with Waldner and his swedish coaches since its so terrible obvious you dont know the first thing about either them, Waldners training or Waldners greatness.

Seriously, who are you trying to kid here?

PS. Waldner is not god, hes much greater

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/11/2006 at 7:04am
Let there be no doubt;
JO is the greatest TT-player of all times!
Lasting for so many years in the top is incredible and will never happen again!

To those who say Linqin is better, sure he might be better now, he might even be better then JO was when he was at his best, but...

U cannot compare due to the sport developing. For example Pele who is rated the best soccerplayer ever would not be selected for a ladies team today! Bjrn Borg would not stand a chance against anyone in wibledon today. When comparing players you have to look at there performances against the rest of the players of that time. Since JO have lasted for such a long time being up there fighting for the medals he must be recognised as the best player of all times!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pp_friend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/11/2006 at 9:22am
Most of the people have the same mistake to compare players by our imagination. J.O Waldner is 40 years old. Wang Linqin is 28 years old. J.O is not in the peak definitely. When we watch his performance in 92's olympics, we can tell he is almost unbeatable.
Also, the player is good or not, we can tell that how his/her contribution to the sport. For example J.O Waldner developed and implement a forehand return service technique in shakehand. Now a lot of TT player using it, such as Wang Liqin, Kong lin Hui
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT_Freak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/12/2006 at 9:31am
Yeah, it just so happens that Sweden is no where near as good as it used to be. Waldner himself said that he truly learnt table tennis when he went to China to train, and the first time got beaten by the janitor if I remember correctly.

Please, state all the reasons for why I don't know what i'm talking about. Sweden's coaches aren't and weren't the best, even in the 80s and especially now (the coach is jokingly referred to as the bottle holder).

Waldner is a contender for GOAT, however saying that he is the God of TT is a false statement unless "Best Of" videos are made for Liu Guoliang, Kong Linghui, Wang Liqin, Ma Lin, Guo Yuehua etc.

PS: The forehand service returns were widely used by shakehanders in the 80s, Cai Zhenhua is a famous example. And Waldner is also known for being weaker with forehand service returns, Jiang Jialiang stated so and even his own coach admitted it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote joubtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/12/2006 at 12:34pm

He is definitely one of the best players.  What I like the most about his technique is how efficient it is and was, yet he doesn't backhand loop, his speed and combos.   He is the only player that I've seen set up to block for winners, use absolute timing to attack (ex. 91 worlds, 1st game against Persson) and by this I mean it looks effortless.

He used to maintain his balance well and was always square to the table.  It was easy to follow his technique especially after viewing the Swedish training video from the mid 80's.  I think what helped him in China is some refinement to maximize his movement with power.

He is definitely cleaner technically than most European players and doesn't have many hitches in his strokes (unless he's manipulating the tpe of spin).

I'm guessing what some of you mentioned as a weak return of service, his short returns versus flipping, is smart for his style so I disagree with that.

There is also 3 things I consider with recent play; the technique has improved, more players try to hit winners instead of just going for good spin as some did previously and the 40mm ball was reported to have a +10% decrease in speed and spin compared to the 38mm so I disagree with the faster/spinnier.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/12/2006 at 1:11pm
Originally posted by Gaute Gaute wrote:

Waldner won the world championsship (i cant remember the year) with 21 won games, and 0 lost games. Wang Liquin can never do that!
Waldner won 2 games in the 2004 olympic games gainst Wang Liquin. And Waldner was much bether in the 90s, I think that Jan Ove Waldner from the 90s had won against todays Wang Liquin!

 
kong won the medal at the first try, waldner will never do that!!!!!
 
amazing how being so fanatic can cloud your mind,waldner was surpassed learn to live with it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bigreddawgie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/12/2006 at 1:42pm
kong won what medal in first try?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote waldiii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/12/2006 at 5:02pm
Waldner is the Einstein of ping pong
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mcuba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/12/2006 at 9:01pm

i m saying waldner is individual best of all time  so far. chinese is best ttt nations of all time so far....and i bet TT freak is anglo american, if true that explains....lol

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/12/2006 at 10:56pm
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Michael Jordan is to basketball, Waldner is to table tennis...
Sure Wang Liquin is fast and powerful and won many titles but I haven't seen somebody as talented and innovative as well as entertaining as Waldi and for me that makes him stand out from the rest and makes him the best table tennis player the TT world have produced
 
you havent seen somebody that talented just because you admire waldner, how do you measure talent,its subjective. waldner was overrated because he s white and european  , waldner was helped by the crap maker" reflez sports" that edited the videos to render wander as a genious and the chinese as monkeys, watch the videos  lots of slow motion close up, check the all chinese final ma lin-liu , its crap why? cos chinese made the finals in 1999, i tought that walnder punished kong at 99 looking at reflex sport tape but i watched the entire match and the realitty was diff..it just the same thing as the tv `producers do, .take  picture 10 greats points by walnder and 10 points by a chinese and cut 7 awesome points scored by a chinese, then you could edit a video rendering wlq as a jerk cutting the best points
 
walnder could have never won in 97 wiining over kong wlq ding song, few months after 97 wttc all the chinese flew to the us open walnder showed but he never played,great slouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/12/2006 at 11:28pm
Originally posted by bigreddawgie bigreddawgie wrote:

kong won what medal in first try?
 
kong first worlds was tianjin and he won that world title steamrolling over gatien 21-8  21-10 and liu this worlds dwoned waldner
 
what it would be great/harder wlq wining 4-0 all the matches or a new player wining the final
 liu did in 5 years everything, walnder started in 1983 and won in 1989 won olympic in 1992
 
liu started in 1995 olympic in 1996 twice(ms/md) ms champion in 1999. 4 years to big the top titles, and he destroyed the belief that if you served long you die, check how many serves he scores even serving to the left corner, when somebody score with a long serve ,the server puts the ball to the other corner
 
besides the fact that nobody could forehand loop with smooth and pips that way
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/13/2006 at 5:19am
bbkon, you are as idiotic as your post, i never based my opinion on the video, i saw him play personally! and i based it on his records, u suck
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote joubtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/13/2006 at 2:10pm

I believe that Reflex Sports focused on Waldner (Swedes/Chinese) because they were the dominant forces at that time (Chinese maintain) and although it was unfair to just show most of their matches, it's their call based upon consumer demand, and it's a common practice.

And let's leave the nationality issue out of the discussion; it's vital but what is the focus is overall best players of which Waldner is one.  What may help to clarify this ranking is to use major tournaments, mental tenacity, technical prowess, efficiency, & length of time at the top (positions 1-3).  this will give a nice grade to each of those awesome players; Cai, Bengsston, Guo, Jiang, Waldner, Ma, Liu, Wang, etc.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/13/2006 at 11:12pm
one thing more, the one winning the most title doesnt always mean that you are the best! in basketball players like jabaar, chamberlain, malone have greater records than michael jordan but why is it that jordan is considered the best player in the world?
one thing that is very common amongst players nowadays, they are faster n more powerful than players of yester years.. yes they have the skills but having talents and skills like waldner is really rare and i havent seen any other player who is smarter than him in terms of game play n ball placement
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/13/2006 at 11:13pm
one thing more, the one winning the most title doesnt always mean that you are the best! in basketball players like jabaar, chamberlain, malone have greater records than michael jordan but why is it that jordan is considered the best player in the world?
one thing that is very common amongst players nowadays, they are faster n more powerful than players of yester years.. yes they have the skills but having talents and skills like waldner is really rare and i havent seen any other player who is smarter than him in terms of game play n ball placement
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fraziel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/14/2006 at 6:38am
Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Michael Jordan is to basketball, Waldner is to table tennis...
Sure Wang Liquin is fast and powerful and won many titles but I haven't seen somebody as talented and innovative as well as entertaining as Waldi and for me that makes him stand out from the rest and makes him the best table tennis player the TT world have produced


you havent seen somebody that talented just because you admire waldner, how do you measure talent,its subjective. waldner was overrated because he s white and european , waldner was helped by the crap maker" reflez sports" that edited the videos to render wander as a genious and the chinese as monkeys, watch the videos lots of slow motion close up, check the all chinese final ma lin-liu , its crap why? cos chinese made the finals in 1999, i tought that walnder punished kong at 99 looking at reflex sport tape but i watched the entire match and the realitty was diff..it just the same thing as the tv `producers do, .take picture 10 greats points by walnder and 10 points by a chinese and cut 7 awesome points scored by a chinese, then you could edit a video rendering wlq as a jerk cutting the best points


walnder could have never won in 97 wiining over kong wlq ding song, few months after 97 wttc all the chinese flew to the us open walnder showed but he never played,great slouch


i like this post. it should win an award for most subjective, bitter and chip on your shoulder post ever written. talk about not giving credit where credit is due. why are people allowed to write rubbish like this? whether waldner is the best is debatable. personally i, and the vast majority of tt fans, think he was. however to say he was lazy and lucky is ridiculous to the point od stupidity. you dont win what he has won and been that good consistently over such a long time by luck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jason7036 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/14/2006 at 2:16pm
Waldner did not lose a game when they played a 21 point format. Not losing a game would be far harder today to say the least.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/14/2006 at 5:47pm
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

one thing more, the one winning the most title doesnt always mean that you are the best! in basketball players like jabaar, chamberlain, malone have greater records than michael jordan but why is it that jordan is considered the best player in the world?


Well, maybe because basketball is a team sport, the best team wins, not necessarly the best player. When it comes down to individual sports it is my firm belief that the best athlet always wins...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/14/2006 at 8:56pm
yes basketball is a team sport and so is football, but u cannot deny that great individuals arise and become recognized for their skills and talents
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