Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - advice on rubbers to use with Liu Shiwen ZLF
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

advice on rubbers to use with Liu Shiwen ZLF

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
colton View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner


Joined: 10/18/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 18
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: advice on rubbers to use with Liu Shiwen ZLF
    Posted: 12/27/2018 at 1:36am
Hi all, I am looking for advice on what rubbers to use with a Liu Shiwen ZLF blade. I am a ~1400 player. 

My current rubbers are forehand Andro Rasant 1.9,  backhand Andro Rasant 1.7.

My previous set of rubbers, which I liked a little better for reasons I can't articulate, were these: forehand Xiom Omega IV Europe 2.0; backhand Xiom Omega IV Pro 2.0

I'd say my style is a pretty conservative backhand (lots of push and chop unless they give me topspin or hit it high) coupled with an aggressive forehand (hard topspin hits, but not too much pure looping). Here's a video of me playing another ~1400 player in the finals of a university tournament so you can judge better for yourself if you are willing to watch for a few minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBb0-bgDu54.  I'm the guy in red and yellow.

Can you give me any recommendations?  Or even better would be a "price is no object" recommendation coupled with a "best bang for the buck" recommendation. It would be very much appreciated, thanks.
Back to Top
serr View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 09/10/2018
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 79
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote serr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2018 at 2:53am
Fh: xiom Vega Asia df; bh: xiom Vega pro
Back to Top
FruitLoop View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 09/20/2018
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 309
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote FruitLoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2018 at 5:29am
Slower blade and Vega Europe 2.0 rubbers.
Back to Top
Pr1nc View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 05/11/2018
Location: TT world
Status: Offline
Points: 136
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pr1nc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2018 at 7:02am
For 'money is no problem' I recommend you Rosewood XO with any 2.0mm allround rubbers like Xiom Vega and smillar.

Edited by Pr1nc - 12/27/2018 at 7:03am
Blade: Jun Mizutani ZLC
FH: Victas V > 15 Extra
BH: Victas V > 15 Extra
Back to Top
colton View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner


Joined: 10/18/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 18
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2018 at 1:36pm
Thanks for the comments. To the last two people, any suggestions if I want to keep my same blade?
Back to Top
Pr1nc View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 05/11/2018
Location: TT world
Status: Offline
Points: 136
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Pr1nc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2018 at 2:00pm
Originally posted by colton colton wrote:

Thanks for the comments. To the last two people, any suggestions if I want to keep my same blade?


If you are in love with LS ZLF I understand you because its a great blade. Yes its a little fast for your current level but its a not a big deal because that blade has a lot of control and its a high quality product. Only change your rubbers and enjoy and play your best ;)
Blade: Jun Mizutani ZLC
FH: Victas V > 15 Extra
BH: Victas V > 15 Extra
Back to Top
colton View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner


Joined: 10/18/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 18
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2018 at 2:06pm
Originally posted by Pr1nc Pr1nc wrote:

Originally posted by colton colton wrote:

Thanks for the comments. To the last two people, any suggestions if I want to keep my same blade?


If you are in love with LS ZLF I understand you because its a great blade. Yes its a little fast for your current level but its a not a big deal because that blade has a lot of control and its a high quality product. Only change your rubbers and enjoy and play your best ;)

Thanks. Yes, that was my thought--it's a very good blade, and I should be able to grow into it. So rather than changing to a different blade that might fit me a little better right now, and then changing blades again in the future as I get a bit better, I'll just keep using this one.

Back to your Xiom Vega recommendation--could you say which version of Xiom Vega would be a better fit for my backhand vs. my forehand?
Back to Top
notfound123 View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 01/18/2008
Location: MD, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 701
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote notfound123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2018 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by colton colton wrote:

Originally posted by Pr1nc Pr1nc wrote:

Originally posted by colton colton wrote:

Thanks for the comments. To the last two people, any suggestions if I want to keep my same blade?


If you are in love with LS ZLF I understand you because its a great blade. Yes its a little fast for your current level but its a not a big deal because that blade has a lot of control and its a high quality product. Only change your rubbers and enjoy and play your best ;)

Thanks. Yes, that was my thought--it's a very good blade, and I should be able to grow into it. So rather than changing to a different blade that might fit me a little better right now, and then changing blades again in the future as I get a bit better, I'll just keep using this one.

Back to your Xiom Vega recommendation--could you say which version of Xiom Vega would be a better fit for my backhand vs. my forehand?

I would start with Vega Europe ... very nice and forgiving
VKMO | MX-P | Curl P1r 0.5
Back to Top
fatt View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: Northwest USA
Status: Online
Points: 15530
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2018 at 4:54pm
I remember using a T80FX on a Vega Pro blade and the combo was astounding for the bh. Since the LSW is also a composite blade with a kiri core and limba outer as well I suggest you try it, it is a do-it-all fantastic rubber that adapts to the player. I do not buy BTY products but this one is a huge reference to me, at least on limba composite blades but I see it generally as the perfect rubber that can adapt to all blades like it adapts to all spin styles (I did not try Rozena yet but I am not too interested).

Edited by fatt - 12/27/2018 at 4:55pm
Back to Top
BRS View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 05/08/2013
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 946
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2018 at 5:16pm
Actually Rozena might be a reasonable choice.
Back to Top
tom View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 11/18/2013
Location: canada
Status: Online
Points: 1493
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2018 at 5:21pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

I remember using a T80FX on a Vega Pro blade and the combo was astounding for the bh. Since the LSW is also a composite blade with a kiri core and limba outer as well I suggest you try it, it is a do-it-all fantastic rubber that adapts to the player. I do not buy BTY products but this one is a huge reference to me, at least on limba composite blades but I see it generally as the perfect rubber that can adapt to all blades like it adapts to all spin styles (I did not try Rozena yet but I am not too interested).
that would be the money no object option.  For the other option, if you want BTF, Rozena would be a better bang for your requirement (confession, I have not used the FX version, just the regular T80)
Back to Top
Lightzy View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/18/2017
Location: T-A
Status: Offline
Points: 343
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Lightzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2018 at 6:35pm
Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft is also excellent.
It will give you a very light setup as well, and the LSW is the best weight-balanced blade I've ever held in my life, so it'll feel very good in the hand and make it easier for you to spin.

Say, Rakza7 Soft 2.0


I'd suggest against harder rubbers at this juncture, so no vega pro etc or whatever stuff u get recommended.
Back to Top
colton View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner


Joined: 10/18/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 18
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2018 at 6:47pm
Originally posted by notfound123 notfound123 wrote:

I would start with Vega Europe ... very nice and forgiving

For forehand, backhand, or both?
Back to Top
colton View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner


Joined: 10/18/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 18
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2018 at 6:48pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

I remember using a T80FX on a Vega Pro blade and the combo was astounding for the bh. Since the LSW is also a composite blade with a kiri core and limba outer as well I suggest you try it, it is a do-it-all fantastic rubber that adapts to the player. I do not buy BTY products but this one is a huge reference to me, at least on limba composite blades but I see it generally as the perfect rubber that can adapt to all blades like it adapts to all spin styles

Are you recommending T80FX for forehand, backhand, or both?
Back to Top
colton View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner


Joined: 10/18/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 18
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2018 at 6:50pm
Originally posted by Lightzy Lightzy wrote:

Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft is also excellent.
It will give you a very light setup as well, and the LSW is the best weight-balanced blade I've ever held in my life, so it'll feel very good in the hand and make it easier for you to spin.

Say, Rakza7 Soft 2.0


I'd suggest against harder rubbers at this juncture, so no vega pro etc or whatever stuff u get recommended.

(Sorry to be repetitive, everyone.)  Are you recommending Rakza7 Soft 2.0 for forehand, backhand, or both?
Back to Top
colton View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner


Joined: 10/18/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 18
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2018 at 6:52pm
Originally posted by colton colton wrote:

Here's a video of me playing another ~1400 player in the finals of a university tournament so you can judge better for yourself if you are willing to watch for a few minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBb0-bgDu54.  I'm the guy in red and yellow.

Great, my video just got removed due to copyright issue with the background audio track I selected. Sorry about that. I'll have to do a different audio track and get it back up soon.
Back to Top
serr View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 09/10/2018
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 79
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote serr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2018 at 7:12pm
You may want to get a harder rubber on backhand for better pushes and a softer rubber on forehand for easier loops
Back to Top
Lightzy View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/18/2017
Location: T-A
Status: Offline
Points: 343
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2018 at 10:23pm
Generally you want a harder rubber for forehand rather than backhand because you can generate more power with forehand whereas the backhand motion is more wristy/flicky but with less power. Generally.

But try Rakza7 soft on both sides. It plays very nice and will be incredibly spinny, making you a lot more confident about spin shots.
Back to Top
colton View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner


Joined: 10/18/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 18
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/28/2018 at 11:23am
Originally posted by colton colton wrote:

Originally posted by colton colton wrote:

Here's a video of me playing another ~1400 player in the finals of a university tournament so you can judge better for yourself if you are willing to watch for a few minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBb0-bgDu54.  I'm the guy in red and yellow.

Great, my video just got removed due to copyright issue with the background audio track I selected. Sorry about that. I'll have to do a different audio track and get it back up soon.

OK, I reuploaded the video with different audio. Here's the new link: https://youtu.be/I4Dm3CXdESA
Back to Top
fatt View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: Northwest USA
Status: Online
Points: 15530
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote fatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/28/2018 at 11:30am
Originally posted by colton colton wrote:

Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

I remember using a T80FX on a Vega Pro blade and the combo was astounding for the bh. Since the LSW is also a composite blade with a kiri core and limba outer as well I suggest you try it, it is a do-it-all fantastic rubber that adapts to the player. I do not buy BTY products but this one is a huge reference to me, at least on limba composite blades but I see it generally as the perfect rubber that can adapt to all blades like it adapts to all spin styles

Are you recommending T80FX for forehand, backhand, or both?
BH for sure. FH if you do not mind a bit soft there. Buying only one at the moment is wise, you will test it on both sides and verify if it fits your fh. It will fit your bh for sure or at least the distance from YOUR perfection will be so minimal it won't be worth spending any more money/time on it, especially in a situation where you wonder, the goal is something stable asap and T80FX is a solid road to take for that.

Back to Top
Lightzy View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/18/2017
Location: T-A
Status: Offline
Points: 343
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/28/2018 at 11:51am
Hmmm.

The LSW is a bit of a bad-boy blade though. It's actually harder to keep balls short than with say, viscaria. It's not 'stable', so to speak. The more your shot is angled, it gets disproportionally faster. So those chops you're making (inexpertly but lets get some coaching and groove that) will have much more chance of popping up long.

Hmm. Dunno.
Yeah I guess. It's an excellent blade but for a beginner it might be a bit confusing to use since there's such a huge difference between slight inclinations of the blade.
Back to Top
colton View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner


Joined: 10/18/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 18
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/28/2018 at 1:05pm
Thanks for the comments again. Here's a summary of people's recommendations. I'm a little confused about the hardness/softness recommendations, specifically since serr and Lightzy recommended the exact opposite hardness for forehand vs. backhand, so I wrote down the hardness in parentheses (hardness ratings according to https://revspin.net/rubber). 

serr 
- forehand Xiom Vega Asia DF (or in general, a softer rubber) (medium)
- backhand Xiom Vega Pro (or in general, a harder rubber) (medium hard)

Pr1nc
- forehand Xiom Vega (not sure which version)
- backhand Xiom vega (not sure which version)

notfound123 
- Xiom Vega Europe (not certain if forehand or backhand or both) (medium soft)

fatt
- backhand Butterfly Tenergy 80FX (medium soft)
- forehand possibly Butterfly Tenergy 80FX (medium soft)

BRS
- Butterfly Rozena (not certain if forehand or backhand or both) (medium)

tom
- Butterfly Rozena (not certain if forehand or backhand or both) (medium)

Lightzy
- forehand - Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft (or in general, a harder rubber) (medium soft)
- backhand - Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft (or in general, a softer rubber) (medium soft)


I will also add that my last set of rubbers was
- forehand - Xiom Omega IV Europe (medium)
- backhand - Xiom Omega IV Pro (medium hard)

(And by the way I tried those two rubbers the opposite way at first, with the Europe on my backhand and Pro on forehand, but liked them better this way.) 

Any more comments, or can anyone help me make sense of the hardness/softness issue? 

Back to Top
jt99sf View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 04/29/2005
Location: San Francisco
Status: Offline
Points: 4877
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/28/2018 at 1:38pm
Get coaching. Take video of the sessions and review as needed.
Photino AN/TBS Black Tag: T05 Hard(FH)/Attack 8 pips(BH)

林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil
Back to Top
mjamja View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 05/30/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1994
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/28/2018 at 1:47pm
Seriously, at your level (and mine) I would not worry about hardness except for avoiding the very soft or very hard stuff. You are at a level where variations in your stroke will mask the feel differences in sponge hardness anyway.

Get any of the combinations listed and work on your game for a year or more. When you are settled in your technique then think about varying one side hardness at a time and seeing if it makes a significant difference. If you want to start with slightly different hardnesses on each side that is ok. Try each hardness on both sides and then train with what feels best. Do not be surprised if after a year you change your mind on which hardness fits which side as your strokes change and improve.

Mark
Back to Top
pgpg View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/18/2013
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1120
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/28/2018 at 2:05pm
Go with what FruitLoop said, or may be don't even bother with tensors (Vega Europe) for now. Get something cheap and slow from colestt or zeropong and hide your LSW ZLF combo.

Your current combo is way too fast and it does not look like you have any coaching (true?). Invest in that first.

P.S. Is 1400 an estimate or a real rating? Sorry, but it looks high to me.

Edit: and stop browsing revspin and thinking about hardness. Does not really matter that much. 


Edited by pgpg - 12/28/2018 at 2:06pm
USATT: ~1950
Donic Defplay - AK47 blue - Dtecs OX
Back to Top
stancuzi View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 01/08/2015
Location: Vienna, Austria
Status: Offline
Points: 36
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote stancuzi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/28/2018 at 2:09pm
Hi, from my experience I'd recommend you using two different as hardness rubbers
so u can see which one to which side better fits. I'll say Vega pro (max) FH and Rosena BH (max) for example.
Cheers, Stan

Edited by stancuzi - 12/28/2018 at 2:12pm
Back to Top
colton View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner


Joined: 10/18/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 18
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/28/2018 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Go with what FruitLoop said, or may be don't even bother with tensors (Vega Europe) for now. Get something cheap and slow from colestt or zeropong and hide your LSW ZLF combo.

Your current combo is way too fast and it does not look like you have any coaching (true?). Invest in that first.
OK, thanks for the advice. I'll think about that. And true, I've never had any professional coaching.

Quote
P.S. Is 1400 an estimate or a real rating? Sorry, but it looks high to me.
It's an estimate. I've only played in one official tournament. I came in 2nd in the U1400 division. I'm a little better now, so I think 1400 is pretty accurate. I also nearly always beat people I play with that have official ratings of 1200-1300 and nearly always lose to those who have official ratings of 1500 and above. Also note that the video was the last match of a tournament, so I was quite tired by then. 

Quote
Edit: and stop browsing revspin and thinking about hardness. Does not really matter that much. 

OK. Gotcha.


Edited by colton - 12/28/2018 at 2:38pm
Back to Top
Pr1nc View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 05/11/2018
Location: TT world
Status: Offline
Points: 136
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Pr1nc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/28/2018 at 4:24pm
Originally posted by colton colton wrote:


Pr1nc
- forehand Xiom Vega (not sure which version)
- backhand Xiom vega (not sure which version)



Xiom Vega Europe 2.0mm on both sides because is all to do rubber and because of high arc of LS ZLF.
Blade: Jun Mizutani ZLC
FH: Victas V > 15 Extra
BH: Victas V > 15 Extra
Back to Top
adishorul View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 08/19/2012
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 361
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adishorul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2018 at 5:05am
Originally posted by Pr1nc Pr1nc wrote:

Originally posted by colton colton wrote:


Pr1nc
- forehand Xiom Vega (not sure which version)
- backhand Xiom vega (not sure which version)



Xiom Vega Europe 2.0mm on both sides because is all to do rubber and because of high arc of LS ZLF.


Vega europe is a high throw rubber if you glue it on a high throw blade the whole setup will throw the ball too high beside that you will have to close the angle more on both side. IMHO something like nittaku fastarc s1 will work better on LSW.
Back to Top
Lightzy View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/18/2017
Location: T-A
Status: Offline
Points: 343
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Lightzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2018 at 8:43am
You see most of the suggestions are for softer rubbers.

This is because they will help you put a lot more spin on the ball more easily than hard rubbers, so they will help you come into your proper technique more easily, as you'll be instantly rewarded for even a small step in the right direction.
This will also help motivate you as you advance. Worthwhile.



Edited by Lightzy - 12/29/2018 at 8:46am
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
About MyTableTennis.NET | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2019 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.