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alternative for korbel/primorac

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    Posted: 12/11/2015 at 5:55pm
My 3rd year, I played a Butterlfy Primorac off-
I switched to Butterfly Petr Korbel the year after and loved this blade from the beginning. Only thing is that I was struggling with the small handle/grip.

I went back to the Primorac for the problem with the grip and because I also thought it would be better to use a slightly slower blade to make less mistakes.
I really miss the feeling when looping with the Korbel though   
The Primorac is not that bad but heavy and the feeling for topspin is quite different.

Is there any blade that has the same feeling but a bit slower and a decent handle?


My type of play: many different spinny serves combined with loops and flat smashes when the return on serve goes high


one strange thing. When looking at butterfly blade charts, they claim the Primorac to be faster...


I have an acuda s2 on the forehand (will test and compare with Adidas P7 and donic barracuda) and an andro roxxon 330 on the backhand (too slow for mid distance so I'm planning on changing to acuda s3).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/11/2015 at 7:00pm
I'd suggest Avalox BT-555 or Xiom Offensive S, these are around the same speed as korbel, but with a better handle
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmackDAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/11/2015 at 7:05pm
Primorac should be slower as it has 4 limba layers, compared to two limba layers on the Korea. Limba is a softish wood and provides a dampening effect increasing dwell time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/11/2015 at 7:27pm
If you want to treat yourself to the best similar blades you can buy, buy a OSP Virtuoso OFF- or OSP Virtuoso+.

Nittaku Acoustic is slightly different (it has Kiri core instead of Ayous) so it is bouncier.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/11/2015 at 10:57pm
I would concur with Sevin that the OSP virtuoso is an amazing off- blade for control. I feel so in control of the ball speed and touch.  By getting the rubber right for you, you can make this blade be whatever speed you want outside of off+. Very solid and finished well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote garwor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/12/2015 at 12:29am
Where could I buy flexy korbel with thin handle?

Btw, I've played for years with primoracs and korbels. Now I cant find flexy korbel and I play with galaxy w6 (it should be same like yasaka extra), not same feeling (harder and no dampening effect and slightly springier, speed is between) but good for looping play like with these two btty blades.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/12/2015 at 12:31am
Tibhar Stratus Powerwood.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/12/2015 at 12:49am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Tibhar Stratus Powerwood.


I was just going to suggest this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adishorul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/12/2015 at 2:50am
You should try primorac EX is a japanese primorac but a bit thicker 5.7 mm compared with original japanese primorac 5.5 mm. Primorac ex is right beetween korbel and old primorac stiffer and softer more speed.

Edited by adishorul - 12/12/2015 at 2:52am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThePongProfessor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/12/2015 at 2:54am
Adidas Challenge Force - Fantastic blade with great balance
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote king_pong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2015 at 3:09am
Donic Waldner Senso V1 & V2 has the same wood plies and is supposed to be in same class as Korbel. If it's too fast, then maybe the Donic Persson Powerallround could be up your alley.

Edited by king_pong - 12/14/2015 at 3:22am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tabmini Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2015 at 3:13am
Yasaka Extra 3d is another choice.
My feedback :
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2015 at 5:32am
Try adidas challenge force.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThijsG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2015 at 8:26am
Originally posted by king_pong king_pong wrote:

Donic Waldner Senso V1 & V2 has the same wood plies and is supposed to be in same class as Korbel. If it's too fast, then maybe the Donic Persson Powerallround could be up your alley.


isn't the Waldner senso a carbon blade? will be difficult for pushes, no?

I had a persson powerplay but wasn't happy with it but heard good comments on the persson powerplay senso V1. would it be such a big difference...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2015 at 8:42am
Originally posted by ThijsG ThijsG wrote:

Originally posted by king_pong king_pong wrote:

Donic Waldner Senso V1 & V2 has the same wood plies and is supposed to be in same class as Korbel. If it's too fast, then maybe the Donic Persson Powerallround could be up your alley.


isn't the Waldner senso a carbon blade? will be difficult for pushes, no?

I had a persson powerplay but wasn't happy with it but heard good comments on the persson powerplay senso V1. would it be such a big difference...

The Waldner Senso Carbon is the carbon one.  The Waldner Senso is the...you get the idea.

Another vote for the Stratus Powerwood.  Also, the Xiom Allround S is somewhere in between the Primorac and Korbel, and has a nice handle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2015 at 9:35am
I prefer the Offensive S as Korbel sub to the Allround S. The Offensive S is an OFF- blade as well.

Edited by NextLevel - 12/14/2015 at 9:36am
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2015 at 11:34am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

I prefer the Offensive S as Korbel sub to the Allround S. The Offensive S is an OFF- blade as well.


He was originally asking for something slightly slower. Both good blades. I've still got an Allround S at the back of my cupboard of dreams.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doraemon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2015 at 11:48pm
OK, Butterfly has the following limba - limba - ayous - limba - limba blades:

Primorac Off-  --> thickness = 5.5 - 5.6 mm
Primorac EX -->  thickness = 5.7 - 5.8 mm
Korbel   --->  thickness = 5.9 - 6.0 mm

Other brands with the same composition:

DONIC:
Appelgren Allplay -->  thickness = 5.5 - 5.6 mm
Waldner Senso v1 --> thickness = 5.8 mm

ADIDAS:
Force Challenge --> 6.0 mm

JOOLA:
K-5 --> 5.8 mm

TIBHAR:
Stratus Power Wood --> 6.1 - 6.2 mm

XIOM:
Allround S  -->  ????
Offensive S  --->  ?????


If you want slightly different composition (limba - ayous - ayous - ayous - limba), then you can choose:

Donic Persson Powerallround (6.0 mm)
Stiga Allround Evolution (6.0 mm)
Tibhar Samsonov Premium Contact (~6.0 mm)

Yasaka Extra and Extra 3D have anegre - limba - ayous - limba - anegre.  Thickness = 5.9 - 6.0 mm (newer version)



Blade : Just wood
FH : black rubber
BH : red rubber
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThijsG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2015 at 2:10am
Originally posted by doraemon doraemon wrote:

OK, Butterfly has the following limba - limba - ayous - limba - limba blades:

Primorac Off-  --> thickness = 5.5 - 5.6 mm
Primorac EX -->  thickness = 5.7 - 5.8 mm
Korbel   --->  thickness = 5.9 - 6.0 mm

Other brands with the same composition:

DONIC:
Appelgren Allplay -->  thickness = 5.5 - 5.6 mm
Waldner Senso v1 --> thickness = 5.8 mm

ADIDAS:
Force Challenge --> 6.0 mm

JOOLA:
K-5 --> 5.8 mm

TIBHAR:
Stratus Power Wood --> 6.1 - 6.2 mm

XIOM:
Allround S  -->  ????
Offensive S  --->  ?????


If you want slightly different composition (limba - ayous - ayous - ayous - limba), then you can choose:

Donic Persson Powerallround (6.0 mm)
Stiga Allround Evolution (6.0 mm)
Tibhar Samsonov Premium Contact (~6.0 mm)

Yasaka Extra and Extra 3D have anegre - limba - ayous - limba - anegre.  Thickness = 5.9 - 6.0 mm (newer version)





noob question: more thickness = faster & less suitable for spinny topspin if talking about the same material?

The thickness of the individual layers themselves could be different (thicker center layer and thinner outer layers <---> vice versa) so if this is the case, the total thickness is maybe not the best citeria?

enlighten me
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doraemon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2015 at 2:45am
OK, the reason I specified thickness was because:

You want to replace your current blade (Primorac Off-), and it has limba - limba - ayous - limba - limba composition.  There are lots of other blades with the same composition, so I gave you the thickness of each blade (it's impossible for me to list each layer's thickness) so that at least you have a better picture, which blade (same composition) that might be similar to your current blade.

As the thickness increases, the blade is logically stiffer.

Regarding the speed of the blade, yes, thicker blade is supposed to be faster as well, but it is not always like that, because the weight of the blade plays important factor too.

For example, if you have 90 grams Primorac Off- but you buy 76 grams Korbel (European made, as stated long time ago by fellow member here), then your Korbel might be slower than your Primorac, although it is thicker.


Edited by doraemon - 12/15/2015 at 2:46am
Blade : Just wood
FH : black rubber
BH : red rubber
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThijsG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2015 at 3:28am
Much appreciated.

And that’s what I think is so strange. I played the Primorac and then the Korbel with the same rubbers. For me, the Korbel feels faster (not a huge difference but still). But the lower weight is really better.
Little less controllable than the Primorac, little more speed.

Korbel is rated OFF
Primorac OFF-

Butterfly blade chart in the catalogue claims the Primorac to be faster but then again I can find most blade charts online say the opposite about that.


Probably not the best place to have reliable information, but before joining this forum, I got most rubber/blade information from tabletennisdb.com

I asked the Korbel replacement question to a big store (who does all brands and they suggested Andro Temper Tech OFF-?

my blade list: primorac, korbel, donic waldner senso carbon (love this one but afraid to use it in competition), timo boll spirit, donic epox offensiv, donic persson powerplay
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doraemon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/15/2015 at 8:12pm
I think Korbel is a blade that you can use your whole life.  As a matter of fact, few high ranked players are still using Korbel.  The problem with Korbel is that its handle is too slim.

Donic Waldner Senso Carbon, is a very popular blade, it is also used by many high ranked players.  Even Waldner himself used it (as claimed by many fellow members here).  The FL and ST handles are comfortable (better than Korbel).   Although it is a carbon blade, but overall it still retains the all wood feeling, due to the type of carbon used, and the position of the carbon within the layers.  The problem is that it has hollow handle, thus can be head heavy if you are using thick heavy rubbers.
Waldner Senso Carbon has black handle and is different than Waldner Senso v1 which has yellow handle and has no carbon.

Timo Boll Spirit is a good blade, but I don't use it much because it has kind of "muted" feeling, unlike Waldner Senso Carbon.

Never try EPox Offensive

Donic Persson Powerplay is 7-ply blade but looks like and feels like 5-ply blade (it has "foil" inside).  It is a good and balanced blade.  But somehow I like Korbel better.

If you want something slower than Korbel but about the same speed as Primorac Off-, then I suggest Tibhar Samsonov Alpha SGS (has foam in the handle) or the new Tibhar Samsonov Alpha (blue color solid handle).   It is a very versatile blade for allround attacker.  Do not get the old Samsonov Alpha (grey handle) because the head dimension is too small.

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FH : black rubber
BH : red rubber
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThijsG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2015 at 3:17am
Originally posted by doraemon doraemon wrote:

I think Korbel is a blade that you can use your whole life.  As a matter of fact, few high ranked players are still using Korbel.  The problem with Korbel is that its handle is too slim.



I had the Korbel with FL handle and bought the ST handle. Better but still quite small... I didn't use it and started to use the Primorac after that. Bummer...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fedex78 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/20/2021 at 3:23am
I have the same problem of OP:
I love my Korbel FL (Made in Japan, 2020 production), particularly as for feel and short game but the handle is too thin and I switched to Primorac (2018 production, made in japan, so stiff and fast).
Primorac is nearly as good  as Korbel BUT:
- it doesnt have the feel in the short game of the Korbel
- it vibrates a lot causing me soreness on wrist and elbow, a problem that i don't have when using not vibrating blades such as Korbel, SK7, Viscaria, Dynaryz Freeze and so on

Could tibhar stratus powergood give me Korbel feel?

I tried the new Maze Advance, great handle but it's a brick, too fast and hard.

Should I consider some Stiga blade as alternative?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jpenjunkie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/20/2021 at 12:17pm
Have you tried just adding some grip tape or one of these to your Korbel handle? Seems like an easier fix to add handle girth rather than change your blade:  
US $1.64  31% Off | 1 pair overgrip for table tennis racket handle tape heat-shrinkable ping pong set bat grips sweatband Accessories
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doraemon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/20/2021 at 11:14pm
Originally posted by Fedex78 Fedex78 wrote:


Could tibhar stratus powergood give me Korbel feel?





No..

I have tried Xiom Offensive S and Tibhar Stratus Power Wood.   They are constructed similarly to Korbel, but a bit thicker.   So in term of feeling, they don't really give the Korbel feel.   I don't know whether it is real or just psychological, but I always think that they can't replace my original Korbel.
Blade : Just wood
FH : black rubber
BH : red rubber
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote achoomai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2021 at 1:26am
Try GEWO ZOOM PRO , it is as good as the previous version of PRIMORAC.
My feedback : http://www.mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=58844&PN=1#726094
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fedex78 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2021 at 3:29am
Originally posted by Jpenjunkie Jpenjunkie wrote:

Have you tried just adding some grip tape or one of these to your Korbel handle? Seems like an easier fix to add handle girth rather than change your blade:  
US $1.64  31% Off | 1 pair overgrip for table tennis racket handle tape heat-shrinkable ping pong set bat grips sweatband Accessories

Thanks for your suggestion, I might give it a try but this is my last option, I'd prefer not to use the overgrip/grip tape, it dampens the feel and alter the blade balance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fedex78 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2021 at 3:41am
Originally posted by doraemon doraemon wrote:

Originally posted by Fedex78 Fedex78 wrote:


Could tibhar stratus powergood give me Korbel feel?





No..

I have tried Xiom Offensive S and Tibhar Stratus Power Wood.   They are constructed similarly to Korbel, but a bit thicker.   So in term of feeling, they don't really give the Korbel feel.   I don't know whether it is real or just psychological, but I always think that they can't replace my original Korbel.

I suspected that...

I was studying the Butterfly Blade Comparison Chart, and near the Korbel there are to consider those blades:

- Diode V (but too big and heavy blade, designed for defenders)
- Innerforce Layer ALC.s
- Hadraw VK

The Hadraw VK is, Butterfly marketing here, a modern Korbel, but it has koto instead of limba as last layer.

Near the Primorac, but with less vibration, Hadraw SK could be considered.

Did anyone have experience with the blades listed above?

You guys are really helpful anyway Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doraemon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2021 at 7:56pm
Butterfly discontinued Hadraw series.   So if you try and like Hadraw, once your blade is broken, you have to find something new again.

Innerforce ALC.s, has arylate carbon near the core.  It is thinner, closer to Primorac thickness, and it has spruce as the outer layer (not limba, like Korbel), so it feels softer and rather flexy. 

I think there is one blade which is very close to Korbel technically (not in term of feeling):

Korbel vs. Adidas Challenge Force (it is now ITC Challenge Force):

Composition:   limba-limba-ayous-limba-limba vs. limba-limba-ayous-limba-limba
Head size:   158x152  vs.  157x150
Thickness:  5.9 mm vs 6.0 mm
Handle:  slim handle vs. normal handle
Stiffness:  moderate vs. moderate (but you still feel that it is a bit stiffer than Korbel)
Feeling:   Korbel feeling vs.  closer to Primorac feeling (minus the flexiness of Primorac).

The other contender is Donic Waldner senso v1 (yellow handle), but it is in between Korbel and Primorac.   And also it has hollow handle (kind of Stiga's WRB).   It is also a limba-limba-ayous-limba-limba blade.


Edited by doraemon - 10/21/2021 at 7:58pm
Blade : Just wood
FH : black rubber
BH : red rubber
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