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Aurus prime and Aurus Select out in the summer?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mog1111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Aurus prime and Aurus Select out in the summer?
    Posted: 05/11/2017 at 11:03am
wonder what these will be like?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/11/2017 at 11:34am
They will have interesting sponge colours.


Usually I would expect the ESN partners to follow each other to some degree.  So Rasanter was the first of a new "thing", then Bluestorm will be a slight variation on that theme, and Aurus Prime/Select is again another variation.  The link above does say that the new Auruses (Aurai?) will be "significantly cheaper" than the Rasanters though.

The translation implies that Select will have a softer topsheet and 45 degree sponge, and the Prime has a harder topsheet on 47.5.  So Select might be the more natural replacement for something like Rasant Grip.  Maybe.

Also interesting is that they list thicknesses of 1.7, 1.9, 2.1 and MAX, whereas Andro went with 1.7, 1.9, Ultramax (with no 2.1 option).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/21/2017 at 10:56am
Anyone gotten to try either of these yet? I know they're supposed to come out july 10th, but I've heard test sheets are already floating around... I like that purple sponge! Embarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/07/2017 at 11:20am
I've been lucky enough to receive test sheets of Aurus Prime and Select from Fabian1890.  Many thanks to him!

Cut them for a ITC Premier XF.

Aurus Prime - Black - 2.3mm - 170mm x 169mm - Uncut weight 67.01g - Cut 47.89g
Aurus Select - Black - 2.3mm - 169mm x 168mm - Uncut weight 65.25g - Cut 46.53g





There are loads of pictures around for these (several of these test sheets with no logos and the small notch are circulating) so I won't go pic happy just yet.  I'll be getting some training sessions organised next week for these.  If anyone in the UK or europe wants to give them a try then please get in touch and I'll forward them on once I've done enough testing.

Physically, they look very much ESN.  The Select has a slight bit of curl at the corners, whereas the Prime lays totally flat.  They don't have the old MX-P/M1 booster smell, but smell just like Rasanter (so if they are factory boosted, it's odourless or perhaps just a vague rubbery smell).

Prime's topsheet feels very stiff.  If Rasanter R47 is the obvious comparison then Prime's topsheet feels stiffer and less flexible, while still feeling super grippy to the touch.  I thought R47's topsheet was hard enough as it is, so Prime makes me feel a little frightened in my sensitive regions.  The sponge looks pretty much the same as R47's, colour excepted of course.

Select's topsheet is different to Prime's.  The pips look wider spaced (and maybe a little taller?), and the feel under the finger is a bit softer.  However, it isn't the Rasanter V topsheet - V remains softer than Select, so select falls somewhere in between R and V here.  The sponge has the same kind of porosity as Prime but is softer (45 v Prime's 47.5).  I like where Select is positioned here in comparison with the Rasanters (and looks more easy-going than Prime), but I'll have to see how training goes.


Edited by AndySmith - 07/07/2017 at 1:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/07/2017 at 11:42am
I sent an email to TT11 about when they are going to stock Aurus Prime/Select and they replied that they might not even get it. Did anyone else email them about it? I'm surprised... or maybe they haven't received a confirmation when they will stock it so they didn't want to give the wrong info.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/07/2017 at 11:51am
Originally posted by DreiZ DreiZ wrote:

I sent an email to TT11 about when they are going to stock Aurus Prime/Select and they replied that they might not even get it. Did anyone else email them about it? I'm surprised... or maybe they haven't received a confirmation when they will stock it so they didn't want to give the wrong info.

They'll probably stock them.  They stock almost everything!  I'd be amazed if they didn't.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/07/2017 at 9:47pm
Andy, based on what you say, I will decide whether this is worth trying or whether I should stick with 2.0mm Rasanter which has really impressed me so far.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/08/2017 at 2:01pm
By your measurements it seems Aurus Prime is very close to tenergy 05 weight (if not the same)... which is good news for me since MXP/MXS is too heavy for my liking. Cant wait to try it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mickael Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/12/2017 at 8:20am
WHEN WOULD IT BE AVAILABLE?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/12/2017 at 9:55am
I've had two 3-hour sessions with Prime and Select now.  For both sessions I had Prime and Select on my current ITC Premier XF, and for comparison I had R47 and R42 on my (recently acquired) backup XF.  I plan on having a few more sessions next week and then editing this post with more information.

Prime.  It isn't the fastest rubber I've ever used, but it's up there.  The basic speed is high and the low/medium gearing is linear.  Not too bouncy.  I felt it had a big late catapult.  Arc was medium-low and stable.  Spin production felt a bit odd to me, especially in comparison with the R47.  It felt insenitive to spin in the passive game, then it span well on medium effort shots, and then it seemed hard to get big spin out of it on large strokes.  On big strokes it was just so fast - probably too much for my level in all honesty.  This all combined together to give a reasonably good nature in the short game, very good performance when opening up, but the 5th ball attack situation was interesting.  It was incredible for powerful drives, counters, smashes - they just don't come back.  But a hard loop seemed much less dangerous in comparison with R47 (in terms of spin), and the arc was just low enough to increase my error rate in tight situations.  It's a great rubber when dominating, but demanding when under pressure.  Or at least it was for me - more mobile and technically better players would probably lap it up.

As a descriptive example of what this meant for me personally, the open game phase of training is worth talking about.  Against a good standard LP chopper/pick hitter (roughly my level, probably a bit above me in recent months) I had far less trouble than I would usually.  3-0 win, easy.  Lifting backspin was incredibly easy, putting high balls away was epic (and they didn't come back - he's a good retriever too), and the short game was solid enough that he didn't get any easy opportunities either.  However, against a two-winged attacker (bit below my level) I really struggled and lost 3-1.  Once the pace of the game increased and it became harder for me to be the first to attack (in comparison with the defender), I found myself in situations where Prime's high speed and low arc reduced my options and the general safety of my play.  When in position, it was winners all night long.  When out of position, much harder times.  In this respect it reminds me a lot of MX-S, but Prime's top-end catapult is the big difference.

All-in-all:

Speed - fast.
Hardness - medium-hard
Throw - medium/low.
Catapult - very linear until the top gears, and then big catapult.
Spin - good, not outstanding.
Short game - very good considering the speed.
Spin sensitivity - low.
Suits - power driver / counter attacker who values precision, speed and sharp counters.
Doesn't suit - looper who relies on high arc and early catapult, allround player looking for a medium-pace rubber.

Select was definitely more my kind of thing.  Both topsheet and sponge are softer, arc is higher, spin is good and it has a very smooth feel during topspin/topspin rallies.  It's a lot less linear and passive play against strong spin was more of a handful, but it kept the efficient open-ups of Prime while being easier to use in active play when pushed out of position.  It still has a good top speed though - flat hits and put-aways are excellent.

All-in-all:

Speed - medium fast.
Hardness - medium.
Throw - medium.
Catapult - good catapult from the middle gears and up.
Spin - good.
Short game - OK, bit twitchy due to catapult.
Spin sensitivity - medium.
Suits - general two-winged loopers who don't hit/counter with extreme power.
Doesn't best suit - huge lumberjacks, blockers.

Closing:

In both cases, I wonder if thinner sponges would help.  My first instinct is that R47 is a better looping rubber than Prime, but Prime has a clear advantage when counterlooping or counterhitting.  Select feels much looser, more flexible generally than Prime, while being faster and more threatening than something like R42 or V42.  Select falls into that "useful medium" rubber zone previously occupied by things like Vega Japan, Bluefire JP02 (or even the original Aurus Soft).  I'll probably pick up a sheet of Select in 2.0mm when they hit the general market.  

I'm always a bit skeptical with the way that the various brands position their new rubbers.  Prime and Select are obviously using variations from the current ESN cookbook, so is it fair to call them "Aurus", or is it misleading?  The original Aurus range had a particularly tight feel to its topsheet, and Prime is close enough in how it plays to be an updated version of the original (bit lower throw, more linear, similar kind of spin levels, better feel of coupling with plastic balls).  Select stretches that comparison somewhat if we compare with Aurus Soft, but I really like Select regardless.


Edited by AndySmith - 07/18/2017 at 5:35am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/12/2017 at 10:42am
do the 2 rubbers have the same topsheet with the original aurus years ago and then just paired with a new sponge?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/12/2017 at 10:55am
How would you compare hardness, catapult, and overall feel of Prime to ELS? And which one would you prefer?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/12/2017 at 12:08pm
Originally posted by DreiZ DreiZ wrote:

How would you compare hardness, catapult, and overall feel of Prime to ELS? And which one would you prefer?

This is an interesting comparison!  EL-S has pretty much the same kind of sponge, softer topsheet, is a bit slower in general and has a bit less of the top-end catapult that Prime has.  The main thing I didn't like about EL-S was how it seemed to max out on big hits with respect to arc and spin.  Prime doesn't have this issue for me because its arc and spin stay very linear and predictable throughout, but you could say that it stays predictably low if you were a glass-half-empty kind of person.  

That said, I think Prime is harder to use in comparison with EL-S.  EL-S has better ball grab at low speeds and although it seems to collapse on hard hits, it better supports late pick-up shots and medium-effort slow loops.

If you have great footwork, are mostly in a good position, and want to win with power and precision then Prime will make those shots count more than EL-S.  They just won't come back as often.  Prime gives some quite shocking results from early counterhits or mid-distance power drives.  I had some surprised looks from the other side of the table (mainly because that's not usually a good aspect of my game).  But if you're slow around the court and play a "softer" game then EL-S helps out a lot more.  R47 is somewhere in the middle, but for whatever reason I find R47's short game to be quite tough to get to grips with in comparison to both.  Probably the hard topsheet combined with the increased spin sensitivity.


Edited by AndySmith - 07/12/2017 at 12:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote onehander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/12/2017 at 12:24pm
Hi Andy,

would you recommend Prime or Select for someone who really likes Tibhar Hybrid K1+ and OVA?
A step up or a complete departure?

And I vaguely remember you trying the new DHS Goldarc 5.  Any similarities to these latest ESN brethren?

Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/12/2017 at 2:30pm
Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

Originally posted by DreiZ DreiZ wrote:

How would you compare hardness, catapult, and overall feel of Prime to ELS? And which one would you prefer?

This is an interesting comparison!  EL-S has pretty much the same kind of sponge, softer topsheet, is a bit slower in general and has a bit less of the top-end catapult that Prime has.  The main thing I didn't like about EL-S was how it seemed to max out on big hits with respect to arc and spin.  Prime doesn't have this issue for me because its arc and spin stay very linear and predictable throughout, but you could say that it stays predictably low if you were a glass-half-empty kind of person.  

That said, I think Prime is harder to use in comparison with EL-S.  EL-S has better ball grab at low speeds and although it seems to collapse on hard hits, it better supports late pick-up shots and medium-effort slow loops.

If you have great footwork, are mostly in a good position, and want to win with power and precision then Prime will make those shots count more than EL-S.  They just won't come back as often.  Prime gives some quite shocking results from early counterhits or mid-distance power drives.  I had some surprised looks from the other side of the table (mainly because that's not usually a good aspect of my game).  But if you're slow around the court and play a "softer" game then EL-S helps out a lot more.  R47 is somewhere in the middle, but for whatever reason I find R47's short game to be quite tough to get to grips with in comparison to both.  Probably the hard topsheet combined with the increased spin sensitivity.

thanks for the detailed reply Andy,

i briefly tried Z1 and Z2 counterparts and felt that at passive slow shots there was a feeling of too much "catapult" or "bounce" i would say (then again it was on a faster blade). It was a strange feeling. I was worried Prime would have a similar property. 

For me, ELS plays perfectly over (flips, pushes) and close to the table (drives, hits, blocks, lifting underspin) but like you said away from the table I feel as i reach its limits pretty quickly. I end up exerting alot of force just to loop back mid distance shots with good spin. 

Im guessing, at my level i spend about 75% of rallies close to the table when i play similar rated players, but when i start playing players that are higher ranked and more offensive with their game (1800+) rallies tend to happen more at mid distance from the table. Hmmm.... 

TT11 needs to stock this soon, so I can try it myself, noone at my club has got their hands on it yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/12/2017 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

do the 2 rubbers have the same topsheet with the original aurus years ago and then just paired with a new sponge?

No, definitely not.   The topsheets are totally different.  Maybe the same design philosophy has been applied though, particularly with Prime.

Originally posted by onehander onehander wrote:

Hi Andy,

would you recommend Prime or Select for someone who really likes Tibhar Hybrid K1+ and OVA?
A step up or a complete departure?

And I vaguely remember you trying the new DHS Goldarc 5.  Any similarities to these latest ESN brethren?

Thanks!

Neither of the Aurai (yeah...) perform particularly well when brush looping.  You just get a slow, fairly harmless ball.  I still use K1+, and loved OVA, but Prime and Select are aiming for a different kind of experience - the excel at power driving, if you can picture that.

Of the new non-tacky ESN releases I've tried, I've found the Rasanter R topsheet has been the best for brush loops so far.  But even that wasn't staggeringly good.  We might have to wait for Omega VII Asia.

Originally posted by DreiZ DreiZ wrote:


i briefly tried Z1 and Z2 counterparts and felt that at passive slow shots there was a feeling of too much "catapult" or "bounce" i would say (then again it was on a faster blade). It was a strange feeling. I was worried Prime would have a similar property. 

I wonder if this is because the sponges are that bit thicker than we're used to?  I certainly feel that Select would be better for me in a more "normal" thickness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/12/2017 at 5:49pm
Andy do you also feel that the new thick sponge ESN releases, all suffer from not propagating enough feedback to the hand, as in you have trouble with feeling the contact point?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/12/2017 at 6:18pm
Originally posted by rocketman222 rocketman222 wrote:

Andy do you also feel that the new thick sponge ESN releases, all suffer from not propagating enough feedback to the hand, as in you have trouble with feeling the contact point?

It's been said that they can feel...spongy.  I know that's probably an obvious point ("this ice cube is a bit chilly", "this president trump is a bit corrupty" and so on), but the feel does seem to be a bit muted in comparison with max sponges that I'm more familiar with.  It probably goes a bit beyond what I consider normal, which I don't mind if it serves a purpose.  I do like the ubermegamax on the R47 on the FH, for example.  But it seems to bother me more on the Prime and Select for some reason.  Perhaps I just don't feel that it's giving me enough in return.

I think you have to be hitting hard all the time to see the performance difference with such a thick sponge.  When you play a bit softer then you just get more of a disconnected, squishy feel.  If you rarely play at the top-end extremes, it's worth asking yourself why you would bother with even thicker sponges.  If you're high level (or just a turbo-nutter who plays while high on red bull and meth) then the trade off would probably make more sense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tabletennis11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/13/2017 at 7:47am
New Aurus rubbers will arrive to our stock probably in next week. We also have made a blind test review for these rubbers and we will publish that too in our blog. 
We will notify you here when new Aurus rubbers are available for sale on Tabletennis11.com.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2017 at 4:36pm
Could someone you tell me in a few words whether the Select is any different to the Bluestorm Z2? I am looking for a relatively cheap backhand rubber but if it is anything like the Z2, I will have none of it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2017 at 4:46pm
Hans, yes it is:
  1. it does not have that soft topsheet that Z2 has (along with the sparse, tall pips)
  2. sponge is softer than that of Z2 (45 vs 47 deg)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/18/2017 at 12:59am
Thank you Slevin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/18/2017 at 5:40am
I've put a few more details in the post above about Prime and Select.  Prime is aimed at a different kind of player than me, but it has a lot of solid properties for certain people.  Select is more general purpose and I really liked it as a BH rubber.  I'll definitely be picking up a sheet in a thinner sponge (probably 1.9mm) in the near future.  It has a bit more power than my current V42/R42 without sacrificing too much ease-of-use.  There aren't a lot of new 45 degree ESN rubbers kicking around yet (I'm still looking at Nittaku Factive though) so it seems to fill something of a void for now.

If anyone would like me to send the test sheets on to them, please send a PM.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ahsq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/19/2017 at 11:26am
what would be the comparisons to a MX-P max thick for the PRIME and SELECT please?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKfoif8dzug

For my technique, the arc seemed clearly higher on both Auruses than on R47, though my R47 was in 2.0mm and the Auruses were on a Korbel vs my regular KJH.  I will may try the Ultramax on my other blade for a comparison later today but I will move the Auruses to a KJH to be more direct.  The higher arc drew more errors in practice when I tried to loop away from people.

I definitely think this is a high arcing rubber.   But will try to eliminate blade differences for a more objective comparison.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tabletennis11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/20/2017 at 10:08am
Our blind-test review of new Aurus rubbers is published here: https://goo.gl/udKPPf

Also starting from today the new Aurus rubbers are available for sale on Tabletennis11.com, but we suggest to wait until Monday with your orders because then we are going to launch a campaign that gives you a free Tibhar towel if you buy at least 1 new Aurus rubber. We will notify you here when the campaign is live.



Edited by tabletennis11 - 07/20/2017 at 10:08am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/20/2017 at 10:47am
Originally posted by tabletennis11 tabletennis11 wrote:

Our blind-test review of new Aurus rubbers is published here: https://goo.gl/udKPPf

Also starting from today the new Aurus rubbers are available for sale on Tabletennis11.com, but we suggest to wait until Monday with your orders because then we are going to launch a campaign that gives you a free Tibhar towel if you buy at least 1 new Aurus rubber. We will notify you here when the campaign is live.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/20/2017 at 12:23pm
Originally posted by tabletennis11 tabletennis11 wrote:

Our blind-test review of new Aurus rubbers is published here: <span style="color: rgb68, 68, 68; font-family: Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">https://goo.gl/udKPPf</span>
<span style="color: rgb68, 68, 68; font-family: Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">
</span>
<span style="color: rgb68, 68, 68; font-family: Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">Also starting from today the new Aurus rubbers are available for sale on Tabletennis11.com, but we suggest to wait until Monday with your orders because then we are going to launch a campaign that gives you a free Tibhar towel if you buy at least 1 new Aurus rubber. We will notify you here when the campaign is live.</span>



These square more with my experiences on the ball arc and other comparisons vs R47. Since I am not sure whether I can or should play with it but I will give if a try. I found it far more forgiving than Rasanter when late to the ball as long as you didn't try to do too much.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ahsq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/20/2017 at 2:31pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKfoif8dzug

For my technique, the arc seemed clearly higher on both Auruses than on R47, though my R47 was in 2.0mm and the Auruses were on a Korbel vs my regular KJH.  I will may try the Ultramax on my other blade for a comparison later today but I will move the Auruses to a KJH to be more direct.  The higher arc drew more errors in practice when I tried to loop away from people.

I definitely think this is a high arcing rubber.   But will try to eliminate blade differences for a more objective comparison.

NextLevel, what is your USTTA score?


Edited by ahsq - 07/20/2017 at 2:33pm
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Xiom Vega Pro ST 85 grams $80 shipped
Donic Waldner Senso Carbo JO shaped ST $40 shipped

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/20/2017 at 2:35pm
Originally posted by ahsq ahsq wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKfoif8dzug

For my technique, the arc seemed clearly higher on both Auruses than on R47, though my R47 was in 2.0mm and the Auruses were on a Korbel vs my regular KJH.  I will may try the Ultramax on my other blade for a comparison later today but I will move the Auruses to a KJH to be more direct.  The higher arc drew more errors in practice when I tried to loop away from people.

I definitely think this is a high arcing rubber.   But will try to eliminate blade differences for a more objective comparison.

NextLevel, what is your USTTA score?

2025.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
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