Backhand Punching vs. Looping

My coach wants me to loop only the balls that I feel confident with and all backspin that I can't receive with my forehand, but with slightly higher dead and topspin balls he wants me to aggressively punch the ball using good placement. This approach is very good, and he told me this, for applying tactics and strategies during a match.


The funny thing is that his coach, who also is a highly respected coach in Europe, during a multiball session, explained to me that I should loop every long ball, only lowering the power to compensate for poor positioning when caught off guard or when I need to make split second adjustments due to a edge/net or kick due to sidespin.


My thoughts on this is that looping the ball with my BH, albeit being slower than a punch/straight attack, forces the other player to better position himself for the receive. Punching the ball allows me to more aggressively place the ball in a faster manner than looping, but due to the predictability of the spin, it is rather easy to receive and even counterattack if the opponent manages to get to the ball (if you watch Wang Zeng Yi or He Zhi Wen play, you will see that their opponents are always counterlooping their smashes).


For some reason my BH loop has been very inconsistent lately, I have been losing a lot of points during matches due to bad timing and poor position for my BH loop, so I'm really considering taking this BH smash approach into my close to the table game. Note that I'm not proposing an all-out smashing game, but I will be looping all backspin, some balls when I'm far away from the table, and low topspin/dead balls that I feel confident on looping. For slightly higher balls that most players would normally loop, I would aggressively punch the balls deep to the corners or into the players middle. This would be my first basic strategy, I know I can't use this against every player because some players can receive straight attacks easily while other have a problem with looping. I would like to know your thoughts on this approach.


Edited by cls2222 - 04/28/2011 at 2:20am

Skyline wrote: It's a good approach IMHO you absolutely don't have to loop every ball. You should watch Waldner and Persson play. They both have a complete backhand, they loop,punch,block,flick,chop lob etc.

That's true but Waldner and Persson have amazing reading abilities. They also heavily relied on their intuition on the player. In Waldner's interview by Anger_Manager, Waldner stated that he always researched his opponent a great deal before playing. One of the greatest reading abilities of highly experienced players is that they can look at a few points a given player plays out and immediately know his/her playing strategies, strengths/weaknesses, psychological strengths/weaknesses, and timing. That is something only experience, or high level coaching with experienced coaches will give me.

Variation is the key but I'm thinking of applying this backhand punch strategy to my game that I use against players I am not very familiar with, which are 90% of the players I play against. If I see that I must loop as punching will not work, then by all means I will loop. Punching is just something I'm very comfortable with. I have been watching a lot of Chan Kazuhiro's matches lately as he is a great exponent of this style.

Kazuhiro beating Ma Long 3-0:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KikoZo8wLY


Edited by cls2222 - 04/26/2011 at 2:26pm

Be realistic about your abilities and play that way until you can improve. Later, you can try to improve to loop everything. 

tpgh2k wrote: pretty much everything in that game was a block and counters....one bh punch can be seen at the 1:16 mark in the video...

A backhand counter is pretty much the same as a punch. The contact is the same, just the follow through might look different because the arm and wrist swings out farther. A BH punch does not necessarily need extreme power to be a called a punch. The difference between Kauzhiro's counters and other players' counters is that he puts in a lot more speed into his, which is why I described them as punches.

Check out the slow-mo at 3:26 in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aGtnvmUvUc

Renamed the thread - please EVERYBODY! do NOT give your threads like "BH" or "Help" - this is very non-informative and confusing.

kenneyy88 wrote: Be realistic about your abilities and play that way until you can improve. Later, you can try to improve to loop everything.

This almost sounds as though looping is the main purpose of the game rather than just one of the many tools that players can use!
I have certainly seen a few players who, in learning to loop everything spoiled their games by losing variety and power.

kenneyy88 wrote: pingpongpaddy wrote: kenneyy88 wrote: Be realistic about your abilities and play that way until you can improve. Later, you can try to improve to loop everything. This almost sounds as though looping is the main purpose of the game rather than just one of the many tools that players can use! I have certainly seen a few players who, in learning to loop everything spoiled their games by losing variety and power. It all depends on the level you are trying to obtain. Higher level players simply cannot afford to be countering/punching the ball anymore. But it is good for control and power at other levels of the game. This game is dominated by looping. The toughest shot to develop is the backhand counterloop in the game. That is why it starts to appear around the USATT lvl of 2400. Any level below this, I think its fine to have variety. But the advantages of topspin is so great, if you backhand loop, it is most likely you'll get a block back.

Sometimes however, topspin is unnecessary and also assists opponent because the top provides a "nicer ball" to attack, whereas a flatter shot has more penetration, and is more difficult to defend against.
The main use of topspin is to provide a better margin for error on attacking shots, but to do it unnecessarily is a defect.
Indeed If i can identify one characteristic that separates Asia from europe it is that the europeans use more spin and less speed and power compared with the asians.
Perhaps Europe's honorable exception is HeZhi Wen who ironically enough is a pimples out hitter!

Vladovich wrote: Backhand punch is one of my favorite shots, but, as I change my equipment from Kong Linghui & Faster Transcend, to Primorac Off- & Sriver L, I found it much harder to aim to the certain point at the other side of the table, and I make more errors on this shot, since I feel that my equipment is softer and bends more. At the other hand, with this setup I feel that I improved every other shot, especially consistency of backhand top spin and loop, but as I like to play close to table I still punch it a lot. So currently I have no idea should I change equipment or just practice backhand punch more with this setup. Is there a lot of difference between equipment demand when punching and when looping, and where is a golden middle?

Quote from William Henzel on thread:

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40196&PN=1&title=blade-feel-does-it-matter

Hi cls2222. It sure is - I've recently set up this account to try to get a little publicity for my new website. Look, there are plenty of good players playing with fast blades and they are certainly able to attack well. My point is that a faster blade will usually encourage you to be more passive with your shots; the lower the throw of the racket the more you'll have to lift your shots to get the ball up and over the net.
and

You're welcome. Slower blades are often softer but not necessarily  I'm sure there will be some serious equipment junkies here who can tell you the exact properties of all the different types of wood. Just to confuse matters, the thickness of the blade will obviously affect the weight and that in turn affects the speed of the blade.


Edited by cls2222 - 04/27/2011 at 5:09pm

Vladovich wrote: So faster equipment will make punch easier because you use opponent's pace in that shot. Also it will make opening loop harder to execute?

Not as much faster as stiffer. A stiffer blade lowers the trajectory making it easier to keep balls low but it can be harder to make spinny, arcing loops because the trajectory is longer and harder to control. A fast blade that has a lot of flex will make the bounce very "bouncy." However, a slow and stiff blade can be give you the best of both worlds if you are looking for a good blocking blade with looping potential. However, as William Henzel states, you will have to put more effort behind your shots. I like my Korbel SK7 because it is medium in terms of softness, has a good amount of speed, especially for an all-wood blade, and is rather stiff so it gives me everything that I like in a blade. Weight is not really an issue for me.

I think for me, the trend nowadays is to have a compact and spinny backhand, like ZJK, Ma Long and Wang Hao, that way they gain both speed and spin with a very fast forward motion, combining the advantages of looping(spin) and punching(speed). But this is very hard to develop and train!

I've never played with Primorac Off- so I won't be able to give you an accurate comparison, but I wouldn't worry too much about the equipment; good technique allows you to play with any kind of blade or rubber. If the Petr Korbel is too flexy for you, you can try the SK7 or a Clipper as they are a little stiffer, but thicker at 7mm (at least the SK7) as well. Many very good players are using the Clipper (and the new version at that, not the famous 25 year old Stiga blades), so that it is a good, full-proof setup. Based on a review somewhere on this site, I heard that Clipper is a bit stiffer than the Korbel and the Korbel SK7 so it could be what your looking for. It's famous for being a great looping blade so looping shouldn't be a problem either.

apflor323 wrote: IMHO opinion, if you look at the components of each shot, with a punch/counter, you opponent has to compensate for the speed of the return. When it comes to looping, compensation then has to be for speed and spin of the ball. I may be wrong, but this might be the reason your coach wants you to perform more loops. Plus also, the spin applied to the ball will help it arc downwards and increase the chances of your return going in.  Just my 2 cents.....

Actually, my coach's coach wants me to loop everything . My coach's philosophy is to play strokes with a very low margin for error, only increasing power when your position enables you to engage every part of your body for the stroke, which increases control. For example, if your opponent played a slow, easy ball (not high, however) to your wide forehand and you were waiting in a FH position after a step-around in the BH corner, he would advise me to get into position fast and spin the ball instead of cross-stepping (unless it was an emergency and side-stepping was the only option) and looping it with much more power. However, if I was waiting in a neutral position, such as my serve receive position, and I got a slow, easy ball on my wide forehand, he would advise me to put all the power (note that I'm talking about a simple block or counterhit, which are balls that have easily predictable spin) I can get into it because I have a much lower margin for error than I do when in the previous scenario.


Edited by cls2222 - 04/28/2011 at 2:20am

True, but learning to keep the ball on the table and force the opponent into a rally is much better for improving rally techniques than outright loop-killing the ball non compos mentis. One of my problems when I started playing was trying to viciously attack long and even barely long pushes, serves, and blocks even if I was out of position. 

Edited by bozbrisvegas - 05/10/2011 at 5:27am

Another thing worthy of discussion is how to anticipate and judge which balls to use a BH or FH attack, when a ball is hit towards you and both shots are possible.