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Backhand rubber for service game? |
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icontek 
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This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5217 |
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 Topic: Backhand rubber for service game?Posted: 03/15/2023 at 8:10am |
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You might remember me as the guy who complained when the original Rasant was discontinued and replaced with the inferior Rasanter series. (I stocked up on NOS).
Fast forward a few years and the New Old Stock is gone, and all of my Rasant substitutes have glaring shortcomings. I am looking for an OFF- or thereabouts speed backhand rubber that has good bite on serves. Using a Virtuoso AC these days, so the blade supplies the speed. Stiga Mantra M is an excellent, linear backhand rubber which blocks, counters, opens and receives serve well. Every once in a while I can generate good "bite" with service spin, but I simply lack the precision and touch to do it regularly (impossible in a pressure situation... not good). Tibhar MX-P and S are close to very good; So much that I like it on my all wood 5 ply Avalox P500, but I do not like the feel on the AC blade. If I recall correctly, there was not enough dwell on service or pushes. Generally I like firmer sponges (for safe push control) and thicker, grippy topsheets (for service) on backhand, but I understand there are tradeoffs when going that route (weight, the need for active backhand play, and generally less forgiving on serve receive). I was thinking that Tenergy 80 is probably close to what I was looking for, but oddly, I have never bought a Tenergy product, after I watched how much my peers who switched began to struggle with serve receive... But I am sure that Tibhar, Donic, Stiga et all have some current standouts for modern play... What are some of the current crop of rubbers that are excellent for push/serve, but still play allround for things like block/counter and topspin against underspin? p.s. I don't want to get back on the EJ train.  Edited by icontek - 03/15/2023 at 8:11am |
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blahness
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Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5442 |
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Posted: 03/15/2023 at 8:55am |
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You could try Hurricane 8-80, I think it's a really excellent choice if you're looking for spin generation, serve/receive. It's also quite linear and not that slow unlike previous generations of Hurricanes.
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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Valiantsin
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Joined: 05/21/2020 Location: OFallon Status: Offline Points: 261 |
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Posted: 03/15/2023 at 10:21am |
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Imho you just described fastarc g1.
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icontek
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This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5217 |
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Posted: 03/15/2023 at 11:45am |
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Gotten burned by DHS "quality control" a bit too much over the years. Some sheets are amazing, some, not so much. Even from "trusted suppliers" and "licensed distributors". I am not keen on giving them more money.
That's an interesting idea. I have used Fastarc g1 as a forehand rubber on a 5 ply wood blade, and thought that I really liked the topspin, control and spin. Short pushing wasn't awful. And even coming from Chinese/Hybrid rubbers, I thought it was very playable, if a bit more forgiving, faster and maybe lacking the killing gear on brushed loops. I would be willing to give this a go on backhand. |
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blahness
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Posted: 03/15/2023 at 9:49pm |
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Understandable. It's dirt cheap though but yes the sheets can be a bit variable. But for its performance it's really good imo, one of the spinniest rubbers I have played with.
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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Valiantsin
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Joined: 05/21/2020 Location: OFallon Status: Offline Points: 261 |
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Posted: 03/15/2023 at 11:56pm |
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You know - myself not so good to use G1 on BH- i prefer C1 on BH and G1 on FH - tried g1 for BH - against loopers works fine but against "strange" return like LP anti or OX LP, C1 on my BH works better. I mean for you mb G1 suits better - we are all different. My current is 1900 - will try to become better after next competition in 2 days - will have some videos on it - so do not hurry - will show you how it works actually. One more thing - I am using forgiving paddle - yinhe t11s - it's one of the best for blocks - so mb it will not work for you if you are using not so forgiving blade.
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IanMcg
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Posted: 03/16/2023 at 12:17am |
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Have you ever tried Ventus Extra? It's kind of like an upgraded G1, harder topsheet gives it a bit more pop and grip when you hit into it, but also a bit harder to activate.
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anubhav1984
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Joined: 05/08/2009 Location: Snoqualmie, WA Status: Offline Points: 1190 |
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Posted: 03/16/2023 at 11:22am |
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I was about to recommend ventus extra too. If you want to try one, I have one for sale in a decent condition. The other one that I would recommend is MX-D. I have played T80 before and I did not like it at all. If you go down the tenergy route, try tenergy 19. I feel like it has the grippiest topsheet of the series. However, once you enter the realm of tenergy then the speed starts becoming a problem. Those aren't off- at all.
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Butterfly Viscaria FL
FH - Undecided BH - Undecided |
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ander999
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Joined: 10/05/2021 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 31 |
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Posted: 03/16/2023 at 11:29am |
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Xiom Jekyll & Hyde V47.5
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icontek
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This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5217 |
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Posted: 03/16/2023 at 8:22pm |
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I haven't tried ventus extra, bus I have had good luck with Victas rubbers, and really enjoyed 401 and 402 double Extra as a chopping/blocking backhand rubbers on a 5 ply wood blade.
But it begs the question: what was it exactly about the original, thick Rasant topsheet that allows so much spin on service (something I can't duplicate with many rubbers)? I dislike the thinner Rasanter topsheets, and simply can't feel the "bite" on service. The only downside of that rubber was that chopping off the table was a nightmare. But it did everything else well enough. With Mantra, I rarely feel the "bite". But when I do, it is the perfect rubber in terms of "do everything" performance. After spending maybe 80 hours playing with the sheet, I simply can't get it to "bite" often enough.
Edited by icontek - 03/16/2023 at 8:27pm |
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anubhav1984
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Posted: 03/16/2023 at 9:06pm |
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I am guessing the best bet for high amount of bite would be mx-d and the other one that I recently tried that would fit the bill would be v22 but that one is a touch fast.
Edited by anubhav1984 - 03/16/2023 at 9:07pm |
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Butterfly Viscaria FL
FH - Undecided BH - Undecided |
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icontek
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This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5217 |
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Posted: 03/17/2023 at 8:34am |
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Reading reviews at revspin.net, it appears this this is one of those rubbers that does not bite unless brush loop, and is designed for easy serve receive/counter. I would be concerned, that like Mantra, it would be hard to engage the grip on service for bite.
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GeneralSpecific
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Posted: 03/17/2023 at 10:16am |
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Just an FYI, Mantra has been discontinued and is being replaced with Mantra Pro. I have never used Mantra Pro so I don't know it it will be better or worse for what you are looking for.
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Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
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anubhav1984
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Posted: 03/19/2023 at 2:09am |
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Is that what people are saying about MX-D? Or is that in reference to V22? Coz if folks think that MX-D doesn't bite then I am sure they aren't qualified to be reviewing it in the first place. V22 is a bit fast anyways but it does bite the ball like hell.
Edited by anubhav1984 - 03/19/2023 at 2:10am |
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Butterfly Viscaria FL
FH - Undecided BH - Undecided |
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icontek
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This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5217 |
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Posted: 03/19/2023 at 4:55pm |
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I must have read the wrong review! Thanks for taking the time. This looks ideal. A little concerned about the weight, but we will see.
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anubhav1984
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Posted: 03/19/2023 at 5:23pm |
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So going with MX-D then? Or victas v22?
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Butterfly Viscaria FL
FH - Undecided BH - Undecided |
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icontek
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This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5217 |
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Posted: 03/21/2023 at 12:13am |
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That's a great question. Knowing that I like the linear, classic Japanese "Sriver EL" feel of Mantra M (but wish it had more service bite), which one of the two better fits that description? I love Victas products (402 double extra is my favorite defensive rubbers) but Tibhar makes my Forehand rubber (K3 Hybrid) and I really liked MX-P and EL-P, but it was frustrating that they weren't quite "right" on my Virtuoso AC... I think my problem is that I love Rasant's bite, but also like the more direct feel of something like Mantra M... |
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anubhav1984
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Posted: 03/21/2023 at 2:05am |
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I haven't really tried Mantra M a lot. I just played with it for a little while on someone else's racket. If top end speed is a consideration for you and you need something controlled and well behaved then I would recommend going with MX-D. However, if you want a faster rubber, then go with V22. |
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Butterfly Viscaria FL
FH - Undecided BH - Undecided |
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icontek
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This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5217 |
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Posted: 03/22/2023 at 8:42am |
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Knowing me, I will probably buy both and decide that I like certain aspects of each.
:D
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anubhav1984
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Posted: 03/22/2023 at 1:06pm |
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That's the best way.
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Butterfly Viscaria FL
FH - Undecided BH - Undecided |
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icontek
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This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5217 |
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Posted: 05/09/2023 at 12:00am |
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*UPDATE*
I cheaped out. Bought just the Victas V22 Double Extra. It is SUBLIME. Had 2 sessions of 2-4 hours matchplay and some warmup and these are my initial impressions: Service game is there; I was able to just pick it up and serve, no yips, no whiffs, and the bite is controllable in order to vary spin. It is excellent for over the table topspin openers against 2nd or 3rd ball. Speed is solid. And a very predictable power curve. Spin is very good. Both inside the table and at 2nd position. Backhand loops still fall deep on the opponent side with plenty of jump. Short game is controllable for pushes; the touch was such that I was able to start a push and then on contact, vary my touch to produce topspin from the same stroke deceiving an opponent into popping up. And unlike my last favorite, the OG Rasant, this rubber can even chop if you get pushed off the table. The only caveat is that, in the same 2.0mm thickness as my forehand Tibhar K3, it is slightly heavier and produces a backhand weighted blade. I would prefer balanced feel, but a couple extra layers of glue on the K3 did not produce the desired results. I do not want to go thicker on my FH. So... I have a funny question: Is there a rubber that is very similar to K3 (hybrid) that is a few grams heavier per sheet?
Or should I just re-order another sheet of K3 and hope I get one that is a bit heavier? Edited by icontek - 05/09/2023 at 12:05am |
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icontek
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This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5217 |
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Posted: 05/24/2023 at 8:46am |
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Still struggling with the weight of the Victas V22DE. Wrist actually got sore after 2 days of playing in the same week; had to switch to a lighter setup the following week to take off some of the stress.
With this in mind, I do not think that increasing the weight of my forehand rubber is a good idea. Which means I need to go back to the drawing board for a backhand rubber, as a lighter blade is out of the question. Is MX-D noticeably lighter than Victas V22DE? Also discovered the only weakness of the Victas for my game: Passive blocking was not good against topspin. I assume that some of the same qualities that make it an amazing service rubber also work against it when trying to control incoming power. Going to move the rubber to an all wood blade
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mariofc
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Posted: 05/30/2023 at 12:55am |
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Hi Valiantsin. I'm curious when you said T11s is a forgibing padle. I play using LP, but recently I'm interested in medium pips after watching a guy played Yinhe Pluto+T11s (the LP is going to be my primary weapon, still). I've a sheet of Friendship 729 563 1.8mm and I just got me a Yinhe T11s this morning. T11s has 2 carbons + 5 sheet of wood. Is this T11s good for controlling a medium pips as F729 563? Thank you.
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Valiantsin
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Posted: 06/02/2023 at 12:46pm |
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Hi mariofc - myself - have not tried mid pips on that - but both SP and LP works really well (except t10s better with OX lp than t11s). You need to try it yourself to clarify if it is good for you.
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icontek wrote: